I am looking for anyone connected to the following names(any spelling) that at one time came from Sharpsburg and/or the surrounding area. I tried to list some first names and time fram as well. I would appreciate hearing from anyone who can connect by relation or research toi any of these names. George Dietrick(b. 1770's found in area in early 1800's) Samuel Dietrick (b. 1793-d. 1847 buried in Lutheran Cem. Sharpsburg) John J. Haynes(Rhorersville b.1770's) William Jones(b. 1750's may have been from England) Robert Clopper(b. 1850's) Please contact me privately if you have any connection. These are brick walls and am looking for BIG sledge hammer. Thank you in advance, Joy in Illinois

Hi, I don't have anything on Emanuel Gruber, but do have this Gruber family from the area: Roger Cramer Peoria, Arizona Roger and Sue Cramer's Genealogy Site _http://members.aol.com/rogercubs/index.html_ (http://members.aol.com/rogercubs/index.html) Ogle Co., IL Genealogy Site _http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilogle/_ (http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilogle/) Descendants of Samuel Gruber 1 Samuel GRUBER b: September 03, 1772 d: March 05, 1840 in Washington Co., MD Burial: Graveyard on the Pittsburg & Peystone Quarry near the Potomac River at Pinesburg, near Williamsport, Washington Co., MD . +Elizabeth ROWLAND b: October 1782 in Washington Co., MD d: October 01, 1821 in Williamsport, Washington Co., MD Burial: Graveyard on the Pittsburg & Peystone Quarry near the Potomac River at Pinesburg, near Williamsport, Washington Co., MD Father: Henry Rowland Mother: Mary Shively .. 2 David R. GRUBER b: February 26, 1812 in Washington Co., MD d: October 04, 1896 Burial: Mt. Zion (Fahrney's) Church Cemetery near Mapleville, Washington Co., MD ...... +Susan BOMBERGER b: April 05, 1818 in Washington Co., MD m: March 16, 1841 in Washington Co., MD d: June 24, 1895 Burial: Mt. Zion (Fahrney's) Church Cemetery near Mapleville, Washington Co., MD Father: Johannes Bomberger Mother: Catharine Miller ...... 3 Henry B. GRUBER b: Abt. 1842 in Washington Co., MD .......... +Leah ? b: Abt. 1841 in MD ........... 4 John D. GRUBER b: Abt. 1868 in Washington Co., MD ............... +Carrie A. GROSSNICKLE b: March 10, 1874 d: October 31, 1895 Burial: Mt. Zion (Fahrney's) Church Cemetery near Mapleville, Washington Co., MD Father: Joseph D. Grossnickle Mother: Emma Alice Stouffer .. 2 Sarah GRUBER b: January 26, 1817 d: December 03, 1907 in Washington Co., MD Burial: Mt. Zion (Fahrney's) Church Cemetery near Mapleville, Washington Co., MD ...... +Jacob BOMBERGER b: August 04, 1819 in Washington Co., MD m: October 09, 1841 in Washington Co., MD d: August 29, 1897 Burial: Mt. Zion (Fahrney's) Church Cemetery near Mapleville, Washington Co., MD Father: Johannes Bomberger Mother: Catharine Miller ...... 3 Savilla C. BOMBERGER b: May 25, 1842 d: March 10, 1926 Burial: Mt. Zion (Fahrney's) Church Cemetery near Mapleville, Washington Co., MD .......... +Increase B. HARBAUGH b: February 19, 1847 in Washington Co., MD m: August 13, 1871 in Chewsville, Washington Co., MD d: April 12, 1912 Burial: Mt. Zion (Fahrney's) Church Cemetery near Mapleville, Washington Co., MD Father: Lewis Motter Harbaugh Mother: Catherine Beard ........... 4 Charles Jacob HARBAUGH ........... 4 Lewis Jacob HARBAUGH ........... 4 Salome May HARBAUGH ........... 4 William Leroy HARBAUGH ........... 4 Aletha Blanche HARBAUGH ........... 4 Marshall Bruce HARBAUGH ........... 4 Bettie HARBAUGH b: 1877 d: September 18, 1878 Burial: Mt. Zion (Fahrney's) Church Cemetery near Mapleville, Washington Co., MD ...... 3 Vandelia BOMBERGER b: January 14, 1845 in Washington Co., MD d: July 18, 1911 Burial: Fairmount Cemetery, Polo, Buffalo Twp., Ogle Co., IL .......... +William T. SMITH b: March 05, 1839 in Frederick Co., MD (moved to Washington Co., MD in 1860, and to Polo, Buffalo Twp., Ogle Co., IL in 1864) m: March 03, 1868 d: November 29, 1917 Burial: Fairmount Cemetery, Polo, Buffalo Twp., Ogle Co., IL ........... 4 Herman B. SMITH b: October 11, 1868 in Polo, Buffalo Twp., Ogle Co., IL ........... 4 Flora Ina SMITH b: December 11, 1875 in Polo, Buffalo Twp., Ogle Co., IL ............... +Frank Wesley HAMMER m: November 08, 1899 in Ogle Co., IL Father: Benjamin Hammer Mother: Narcissa Betebenner ...... 3 Isaac C. BOMBERGER b: August 30, 1846 in Washington Co., MD d: February 11, 1933 in Washington Co., MD Burial: Riverview Cemetery, Williamsport, Washington Co., MD .......... +A. Missouri ? b: May 17, 1850 ........... 4 Olive S. BOMBERGER ........... 4 Howard W. BOMBERGER b: January 15, 1875 d: October 18, 1931 Burial: Greenlawn Cemetery, Williamsport, Washington Co., MD ............... +Ida V. ? b: March 13, 1875 ...... 3 Loretta BOMBERGER b: November 18, 1849 d: July 17, 1850 Burial: Mt. Zion (Fahrney's) Church Cemetery near Mapleville, Washington Co., MD

Emanuel Henry (or Harry) Gruber was born in Hagerstown, MD, on March 25, 1833 - although we have no verification of this date. It was not known until just a few years ago when we found a small article from a newspaper in Denver, CO, where he had died and was buried. He died in Washington, DC, in 1913, and was buried in the Pioneer Congressional Cemetery there. E.H. Gruber (as he commonly signed his name) was a banker, having a very "traveled" life from one area to another setting up banks. Some of these areas are Leavenworth, KS; Dallas, TX; Leadville, CO; Salt Lake City, UT; Denver, CO; and possibly New Orleans as well as Long Island. He was also one of the founders of Clark Gruber Minting Company in Denver, a forerunner of the U.S. Mint, that sold to the government in about 1862. It was only in the past year that a cousin found an article in the Hagerstown Torch Light on a property settlement that we learned who his siblings and parents were. His father was Jacob Gruber, and mother, presumably Ann Gruber. Listed in the information as probable siblings are John George (b. 1813), Mary Ann (b. 1821), Jacob (b. 1826), Martin (b. 1835), as well as "Nannie Paulding," for whom we have no information - or even if she is truly a sibling and cannot connect her to a Paulding or to a Gruber. There might possibly have been other siblings that were deceased since there are gaps in the years of births. E.H. Gruber was married to Emma Ella Whitridge in Ohio in 1857 and had 4 children, all born in Leavenworth, KS. Two daughters died as teen agers without issue and a son, Clark Henry, died fairly young without issue. His daughter, Cora Belle, was married to Meredith Camplin in Leavenworth in 1880. If anyone out there has further information on this family, we would certainly appreciate knowing of it. I will also submit this to the "Gruber list" as well. Nancy Lematta (Great, great granddaughter) Vancouver, Washington (USA)

Thank you, Lauren, Bob B, and Bob C for your replies. Paul

In a message dated 4/14/2005 11:33:53 AM US Mountain Standard Time, lrbrant@concentric.net writes: There isn't anything in estate distributions. Is this a spelling variation of LEASURE/LEISURE/LESURE /LESHER? I see these names but Thanks, the name is spelled Lizer in early Washington and Franklin County census records. Roger

Roger, There is a marriage for John SHRIVER and Susan NEIKIRK 5/4/1843. He is the only John in the index. In 1826 John NEWCOMER, on Beaver Creek, was offering a 6 1/2 cent reward for an apprentice to the milling business, Henry LIZAR - 19 to 21 years of age. . In 1827 Henry LIZAR married Mazy JUSTICE. The only grooms are: Geo./Mary STOTTLEMYER 7/24/1822 Geo./Ann SULTZER 8/14/1838 Wesley/Mary Eliz. GOUKER 8/31/1848 John/Sr GOWKER 9/27/1859 There isn't anything in estate distributions. Is this a spelling variation of LEASURE/LEISURE/LESURE /LESHER? I see these names but don't know how they are/were pronounced. There is one LIZAR burial in the Boonsboro Cemetery - Emma. Lauren Brantner RogerCubs@aol.com wrote: > >Descendants of John Lizer > >1 John LIZER b: July 09, 1840 in MD (appears in 1870 Antrim Twp., Franklin >Co., PA and 1900 Mt. Morris Twp., Ogle Co., IL census) d: 1907 >Military service: Civil War >. +Mary ? b: March 01, 1840 in PA d: February 20, 1906 Burial: >Plainview Cemetery, Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL >.. 2 William C. LIZER >...... +Jennie May SCHRIVER m: December 29, 1898 in Ogle Co., IL >Father: John Schriver Mother: Susan ? >.. 2 Luther Elmer LIZER b: 1864 d: 1952 Burial: Plainview Cemetery, >Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL >...... +Laura Susan SPIELMAN b: September 24, 1865 m: January 05, 1888 in >Ogle Co., IL d: July 24, 1939 in Ogle Co., IL Burial: Plainview Cemetery, >Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL Father: Melvin Peter Spielman Mother: Mary Elizabeth > Newcomer >...... 3 Ada Mae LIZER b: March 11, 1890 in Ogle Co., IL >...... 3 Ralph Burrell LIZER b: November 18, 1900 in Ogle Co., IL > >.. 2 Helen LIZER b: 1865 d: 1901 Burial: Plainview Cemetery, Mt. >Morris, Ogle Co., IL >...... +Oscar L. DOWARD b: March 03, 1864 in Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL m: >January 26, 1893 in Ogle Co., IL d: August 1938 Burial: Plainview Cemetery, >Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL Father: Alfred M. Doward Mother: Mary Annora >Nichols >...... 3 Anna DOWARD b: in (died at age 5) >...... 3 Daniel DOWARD b: in (died at age 1) >...... 3 J. Alfred DOWARD b: in (died at age 1) >...... 3 Orville DOWARD >.. 2 Sarah A. LIZER b: September 02, 1868 in Hagerstown, Washington Co., >MD d: February 19, 1912 Burial: Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., >Ogle Co., IL >...... +Fred Eugene FRY b: July 26, 1868 in Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL >(appears in 1930 Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL census) m: January 01, 1891 in Ogle >Co., IL d: August 20, 1947 in Mt. Morris Twp., Ogle Co., IL Burial: >Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL Father: Isaac Fry Mother: >Hannah "Tibby" Pond >...... 3 Willard I. FRY b: January 17, 1892 in Leaf River Twp., Ogle Co., >IL (appears in 1930 Leaf River Village, Ogle Co., IL census) d: June 01, >1944 in Hospital, Freeport, Stephenson Co., IL Burial: Adeline Cemetery, >Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL >.......... +Pauline M. FRANTZ b: June 17, 1899 in Sandwich, IL m: December >04, 1916 d: Aft. 1944 Burial: Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., >Ogle Co., IL Father: Ralph M. Frantz Mother: Minnie ? >...... 3 Beulah Mae FRY b: October 16, 1894 in Ogle Co., IL d: July >1977 Burial: Oakwood Cemetery, Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL >.......... +Edward David GARKEY b: May 01, 1889 m: March 28, 1912 in >Stephenson Co., IL d: August 1961 Burial: Oakwood Cemetery, Mt. Morris, Ogle >Co., IL Father: Henry C. Garkey Mother: Malinda "Wilhelmina" Rohns >...... 3 Mary E. FRY b: June 16, 1897 d: August 18, 1904 Burial: >Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL >...... 3 Ruth Irene FRY b: November 23, 1904 in IL d: December 21, 1984 > Burial: Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL >.......... +Benjamin Johann GENANDT b: January 13, 1907 in Forreston, >Forreston Twp., Ogle Co., IL d: August 04, 1984 Burial: Adeline Cemetery, >Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL Father: Harm (Hiram) A. Genandt Mother: >Elizabeth Borneman > >Roger Cramer >Peoria, Arizona >Roger and Sue Cramer's Genealogy Site >http://members.aol.com/rogercubs/index.html >Ogle Co., IL Genealogy Site >http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilogle/ > > > > >==== MDWASHIN Mailing List ==== >The OFFICIAL website for this list is: >http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com/MD/washington/ > >============================== >New! Family Tree Maker 2005. Build your tree and search for your ancestors at the same time. Share your tree with family and friends. Learn more: http://landing.ancestry.com/familytreemaker/2005/tour.aspx?sourceid=14599&targetid=5429 > > > > > >

Does anyone have any information on Henry CREAGER (occupation carpenter) who is shown in the 1850, 1860 1870, Census in Hagerstown, Washington Co, MD. His date of birth is listed as about 1795 in MD. Wife is Sarah, children listed as Anne, Martha, Cornelius in the 1850 Census. Only Cornelius listed in 1860. Thank you.

Descendants of John Lizer 1 John LIZER b: July 09, 1840 in MD (appears in 1870 Antrim Twp., Franklin Co., PA and 1900 Mt. Morris Twp., Ogle Co., IL census) d: 1907 Military service: Civil War . +Mary ? b: March 01, 1840 in PA d: February 20, 1906 Burial: Plainview Cemetery, Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL .. 2 William C. LIZER ...... +Jennie May SCHRIVER m: December 29, 1898 in Ogle Co., IL Father: John Schriver Mother: Susan ? .. 2 Luther Elmer LIZER b: 1864 d: 1952 Burial: Plainview Cemetery, Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL ...... +Laura Susan SPIELMAN b: September 24, 1865 m: January 05, 1888 in Ogle Co., IL d: July 24, 1939 in Ogle Co., IL Burial: Plainview Cemetery, Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL Father: Melvin Peter Spielman Mother: Mary Elizabeth Newcomer ...... 3 Ada Mae LIZER b: March 11, 1890 in Ogle Co., IL ...... 3 Ralph Burrell LIZER b: November 18, 1900 in Ogle Co., IL .. 2 Helen LIZER b: 1865 d: 1901 Burial: Plainview Cemetery, Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL ...... +Oscar L. DOWARD b: March 03, 1864 in Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL m: January 26, 1893 in Ogle Co., IL d: August 1938 Burial: Plainview Cemetery, Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL Father: Alfred M. Doward Mother: Mary Annora Nichols ...... 3 Anna DOWARD b: in (died at age 5) ...... 3 Daniel DOWARD b: in (died at age 1) ...... 3 J. Alfred DOWARD b: in (died at age 1) ...... 3 Orville DOWARD .. 2 Sarah A. LIZER b: September 02, 1868 in Hagerstown, Washington Co., MD d: February 19, 1912 Burial: Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL ...... +Fred Eugene FRY b: July 26, 1868 in Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL (appears in 1930 Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL census) m: January 01, 1891 in Ogle Co., IL d: August 20, 1947 in Mt. Morris Twp., Ogle Co., IL Burial: Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL Father: Isaac Fry Mother: Hannah "Tibby" Pond ...... 3 Willard I. FRY b: January 17, 1892 in Leaf River Twp., Ogle Co., IL (appears in 1930 Leaf River Village, Ogle Co., IL census) d: June 01, 1944 in Hospital, Freeport, Stephenson Co., IL Burial: Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL .......... +Pauline M. FRANTZ b: June 17, 1899 in Sandwich, IL m: December 04, 1916 d: Aft. 1944 Burial: Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL Father: Ralph M. Frantz Mother: Minnie ? ...... 3 Beulah Mae FRY b: October 16, 1894 in Ogle Co., IL d: July 1977 Burial: Oakwood Cemetery, Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL .......... +Edward David GARKEY b: May 01, 1889 m: March 28, 1912 in Stephenson Co., IL d: August 1961 Burial: Oakwood Cemetery, Mt. Morris, Ogle Co., IL Father: Henry C. Garkey Mother: Malinda "Wilhelmina" Rohns ...... 3 Mary E. FRY b: June 16, 1897 d: August 18, 1904 Burial: Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL ...... 3 Ruth Irene FRY b: November 23, 1904 in IL d: December 21, 1984 Burial: Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL .......... +Benjamin Johann GENANDT b: January 13, 1907 in Forreston, Forreston Twp., Ogle Co., IL d: August 04, 1984 Burial: Adeline Cemetery, Adeline, Maryland Twp., Ogle Co., IL Father: Harm (Hiram) A. Genandt Mother: Elizabeth Borneman Roger Cramer Peoria, Arizona Roger and Sue Cramer's Genealogy Site http://members.aol.com/rogercubs/index.html Ogle Co., IL Genealogy Site http://www.rootsweb.com/~ilogle/

I am looking for any descendants of James W. Earley. He lived in Hagerstown area. He had a son name Norman S. Early that died in Hagerstown in 1974. I believe he also had a daughter name Camilla Early Burns died in 1966 of Bonsboro. I would like to contact the family. Can anyone help me? Thanks so much for any help. Eileen

In a message dated 4/9/2005 10:39:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, FamilyHart@aol.com writes: Recently, there was an advertisement on several of our lists ---- It should probably also be noted as an addendum to Don's post that RootsWeb's AUP doesn't permit advertising or commercial posts on the message boards or the mailing lists. So the original eBay posts that were gatewayed to a few of our lists from the boards should not have been posted in the first place and I have deleted them from the boards. I'm sure you all realize that Don's post was to alert everyone to be cautious in these matter should you see an advertisement slip through on a list. As admins, we don't really have too much control over the initial posts--especially those that slip through from the gateway. All we can do is to react and remove the posts after the fact. It is up to all of your to be cautious. Also, please don't assume that is is ok to post a commercial post or advertise an item for sale on our lists and boards. And, if you have a question about something you would like to post that could be considered commercial, please write privately to the admin address for the list before doing so, to help determine the appropriateness of the post. Thanks! Joan

List Members, Recently, there was an advertisement on several of our lists for a Kauffman book written by Charles Fahs Kauffman that was listed on eBay. The current bid on this book is for $108.50. It should be noted that this is a reprint and that it has water damage. FYI- I just picked up a copy of this same book (no water damage) through the Internet at Dinki Books in Lancaster, PA for $80. Please be careful with your book purchases on eBay. On our main website, http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com, we have a bookfinder, where you can look up books offered on the Internet through reputable book stores, and assess real market value. You might want to use this before making book purchases through eBay. > < Thanks! Don & Jeanine Hartman FamilyHart _http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com/familyhart/_ (http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com/familyhart/) Administrators for the following lists at Rootsweb: Pennsylvania, PADutchGenONLY, Penna-Dutch, PAYork, PA-York-Gen, MD-Fred-Gen, MDWashin, Burket, Dierdorff, Gotshall, Glattfelder, Hartman, Kohr, Kaufman, Sturm

I have Utz back to Germany. I just got a bible which had more Utz family members in Frederick and Washington Counties and have not seen any emails for years looking for Utz family. Just offering new info. tom in Ohio -----Original Message----- From: MoserDeanie@aol.com [mailto:MoserDeanie@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, April 07, 2005 1:57 PM To: MDWASHIN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MDWASHIN] Utz I have Utz in my line, which one are you looking for? I don't think mine were in Washington Co. though. E-mail direct--moserdeanie@aol.com ==== MDWASHIN Mailing List ==== If you have any problems feel free to address those to the list administrator: MDWASHIN-admin@rootsweb.com ============================== Find your ancestors in the Birth, Marriage and Death Records. New content added every business day. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13964/rd.ashx

The dealine for getting your money in for the reunion is rapidly arriving. April 15th for money, April 24th for reunion. Plenty of parking and room to spread out with your family, pictures, and memorabilia. ANNOUCEMENT: We now have charts covering EVERYONE that Kitty has in her database. The chart from last year has not, however, been updated so the new people Kitty has added to her own line will be covered in a listing. The new charts add up to about 220' (yes, that is feet) of charts. Adding that to the 30 feet of the Thomas M. Norwood chart, we now have charts totaling 250'. We have also put together a listing of everyone's name with on what chart(s) they appear. Because of how the charts needed to be created (there is a 30' limit per chart) this could mean a group could appear on more than one chart. If, however, a person is related twice to the same chart group, they will appear on that chart once with full information and the other times with just their name and the note "This is a duplicate person". If you see this look for them on the same chart again closer to the top. Come spend some time finding your ancestors and YOURSELF. If you are not there or your information is wrong, then you haven't sent it to Kitty (or she has made a mistake--NO, can't be that). Don't forget to bring pictures and other family information to share and scan. Let's get this right. Now, Kitty--About who you have as the children for Nehemia Moxley and Elizabeth Norwood---hmmmmmmm. ================================================ COME EARLY – DOORS OPEN AT 2:00 PM There will be refreshments before dinner. Dinner at 5:00 PM catered by Mountain Gate of Thurmont, Maryland The Fire Activities Building Twin Arch Rd. and Rt. 27 Mt Airy, Maryland $13.00 per person. Send money for reservations by April 15th to Mary Norwood 4115 Harrisville Road Mt. Airy MD 21771-8211 MryNorwood@aol.com

I have Utz in my line, which one are you looking for? I don't think mine were in Washington Co. though. E-mail direct--moserdeanie@aol.com

Our online database was updated this past Sunday with over 10,000 new names bringing our online total to 418,622. These can be viewed at: http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com/familyhart/ > < Thanks! Don & Jeanine Hartman FamilyHart _http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com/familyhart/_ (http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com/familyhart/) Administrators for the following lists at Rootsweb: Pennsylvania, PADutchGenONLY, Penna-Dutch, PAYork, PA-York-Gen, MD-Fred-Gen, MDWashin, Burket, Dierdorff, Gotshall, Glattfelder, Hartman, Kohr, Kaufman, Sturm

Is anyone on the Washington Co. site looking for info on Utz family?

I agree. I was in Hagerstown on a trip and stop to check my SPECK line from the church records. I had bought a book that listed all the records from several churches in the area. What a surprise, when I found 12 Speck's and there were 7 errors. Dates mis-read or not copied correctly. The killer was a Martin Speck sr. in the church record was copied out as Martin Speck son of the next person on the list. Two years of time looking for the wrong person. As Jean said go to the source!!!!. tom in Ohio -----Original Message----- From: john112g3@aol.com [mailto:john112g3@aol.com] Sent: Sunday, April 03, 2005 8:12 AM To: MDWASHIN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MDWASHIN] Re:Reformed Congregation = which religion? Jean, First, all the 'facts' you note below could be correct. Second, you might be dealing with two families, one your correct one, the other transient who showed up in the Lutheran Church. Secondary records can be dangerous to use without going back to the original. Third, I'd try to check the original documents on film if possible. You might learn alot from the records and the adjoining records on the film. You might find a temporary situation of Reformed folks appearing in the Lutheran records. Or maybe the wife was Lutheran and they family started there and moved later. All these things I've run into in Hagerstown and elsewhere. I have two contemporary John Herr families in Hagerstown: the Lutheran family and the Reformed family. At least I hope they were two families. Otherwise they were one husband with a wife and a girlfriend and 25 kids around town! I have had family records recording marriage dates with the year conveniently moved back one year in a family genealogy book to make the next 50,000 descendants "legit" and not the descendants of, shall we say, oh well. You get the picture. Only the original church record of 1769 in Lancaster PA proved the point. Finally, remain cautious of the LDS records. Their films of original records are primary records and can usually be believed except for original errors! But the extracted records are, in many cases, a mess. Good luck! John M. Rhodes -----Original Message----- From: jean stamm <tiderow@yahoo.com> To: MDWASHIN-L@rootsweb.com Sent: Sat, 2 Apr 2005 20:20:36 -0800 (PST) Subject: Re: [MDWASHIN] Re:Reformed Congregation = which religion? Susan: you say that the Refermed Congregation and the St. John's Church were different, if I read your response to Joe correctly then I have a question. I have family that was from Hagertown in the late 1700's early 1800's. the first son born to my line in Hagerstown was born/baptised in St. John's. Some four years later they had another son born in the Reformed Congregation. Now, my information on the reformed congregation baptism was based on a LDS record in Salt Lake City Utah. But there is an exact date and not a circa. So if they are different church's why would the family have children born in two differnent congregations? Assuming that the LDS location is accurate! By the way, its interesting, my 3rd great grandfather Jacob Stamm had a son, Adam that went to Coshocton County and married Elizabeth Emerich. The rest of the family moved to Indiana then to Wayne County Ohio then back to Indiana. Thanks Jean Stamm --- OhSuzan419@aol.com wrote: > Ok Joe -- I'll take a stab at this, noting first of > all that there are enough > regional differences in any given situation to make > what I am about to tell > you largely inoperative. > > First of all, St. John's Evangelical Lutheran Church > is the historical > Lutheran parish in Hagerstown (which used to be > called Elizabethtown). Many of my > ancestors were members of this church from about > 1780 - 1800, before they moved > to Ohio. > > Oftentimes (especially, it seems to me, in German > wills) you will see > reference to the Evangelical Church. In this > context, it would mean the Lutheran > Church. So if your ancestors were "consistent > members of the Evangelical Church" > in Hagerstown, St. John's Lutheran is where you > would have expected them to > give their money. > > The Reformed Church had nothing to do with the > Lutheran Church; in fact, many > Lutherans back then had less-than-friendly feelings > toward the Reformed. They > are both Protestant churches, but spring from two > entirely different strains > of Protestantism. To the best of my knowledge, the > Reformed Church would have > been followers of Calvin or Zwingli. The Lutherans > were followers of -- > Luther!! And as an ex-seminarian, I can tell you > that Luther (whose use of language > was very --umm -- "colorful") had no use whatsoever > for these folks, and said > so with great vehemence at every opportunity. > > There are some cases on record however, where at one > point and probably out > of necessity, Lutherans and Reformed shared the same > building. But especially > as populations grew, this practice became less > common. > > I don't think the Reformed had quite the degree of > disdain for the Lutherans > as vice-versa, but I don't think either of them > liked Catholics very much. > Individuals in earlier times tended to marry within > the religion of their family. > Indeed, as I have come to understand it, in Germany > and much of Europe, one's > religion is/was not just a matter of "which church > you go to," but actually > extends to which town you live in, who your friends > are, and even who your head > of state is. > > For example, my husband, who is a Russian German (a > specific ethnic group) > was born to Lutheran family in Russia. They lived in > a town called > Grosliebenthal. Everyone in Grosliebenthal was > Lutheran. And German. If you were a Catholic > in that area, you lived in another town, called > Kleineliebenthal. You didn't > hang out with people from the other town. > So you see, his identity as Lutheran includes > religious, family, and civic > components -- a far cry from what we think of today > as being "just" a religious > choice. > > I believe that was more-or-less the context from > which our ancestors emerged > when they came to America. I don't believe that > religious intermarriage was > ever legally forbidden in the post-Revolutionary > U.S.(although the colony of > Maryland was originally Catholic, so I may be wrong > about that), but I do think > it was locally frowned upon -- and some places were > probably "frownier" than > others. The parents and pastors could and did bring > all sorts of pressures to > bear on their kids to keep them in the fold. But of > course, we didn't segregate > people in separate villages by their religious > preference, so over time, you > did inevitably find intermarriage and conversion -- > again, until fairly > recently, a uniquely American experience. > > As for your relatives, it seems very plausible to me > that some of them could > have been Lutherans, and then married Reformed, and > then become Catholic. > > To show how recently this issue about religious > intermarriage was still an > issue among American Protestants, I would give you > the example of my grandmother > (who died in 1983 at the age of 90). One of her > "deathbed" confessions to us > -- which she clearly wanted to get off her chest -- > was that she had not been > born a Lutheran, but was, rather, a Presbyterian > (those "Reformed" folk you > were talking about), and became a Lutheran only when > she married my grandfather. > This had honestly lain heavily on her soul all her > adult life; it was > something she needed to confess before she could > meet her maker. > > I can't help but wonder what she would think about > the situation in those > churches today, where they not only recognize each > other's rites, but also are > entitled to hire one another's pastors, if they so > choose. (She would be > s-o-o-o-o-o happy to know I married a "real" > Lutheran!) > > Susan Kundert > Coshocton, OH > > > ==== MDWASHIN Mailing List ==== > The OFFICIAL website for this list is: > http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com/MD/washington/ > > ============================== > Search Family and Local Histories for stories about > your family and the > areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the > last 12 months. > Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx > > test'; "> __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Small Business - Try our new resources site! http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/resources/ ==== MDWASHIN Mailing List ==== The OFFICIAL website for this list is: http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com/MD/washington/ ============================== Search Family and Local Histories for stories about your family and the areas they lived. Over 85 million names added in the last 12 months. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13966/rd.ashx ==== MDWASHIN Mailing List ==== The OFFICIAL website for this list is: http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com/MD/washington/ ============================== Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx

George Ely Russell's Guide to Washington County Research has these entries on available Cavetown Church Records: CHURCH RECORDS OF THE GERMAN REFORMED CONGREGATION, 1853-1917. By Mrs. Frank Schwartz. Typed. Baptisms, marriages and deaths 1853-1917. Washington County Historical Society. MARRIAGE RETURNS OF THE REV. JOHN SANTEE, Cavetown to 1804. Scharf Papers, Series S--5001. Maryland State Archives. I don't know if the church still exists - if it does, that is another avenue of approach. Lauren Brantner Sandy Cook wrote: >Does anyone know where records for this church are? Thanks. Sandy > > >==== MDWASHIN Mailing List ==== >Can't find it in Washington County...Try Frederick County at: >http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com/MD/frederick/ > >============================== >View and search Historical Newspapers. Read about your ancestors, find >marriage announcements and more. Learn more: >http://www.ancestry.com/s13969/rd.ashx > > >. > > >

Does anyone know where records for this church are? Thanks. Sandy

I thought the text made clear that I do not mean permanently shared but rather shared as circumstances demanded; if it didn't I'll reiterate that now. I doubt that church hierarchy of any denomination would allow for that kind of sharing. I think people should also take into consideration that no one had to stay in a particular church - they could have joined other churches and moved back and forth. I have that in some of my German family lines. The whole Protestant movement is still happening today with new churches evolving. Churches have groups who get disgruntled and go off and start another church so it doesn't hurt to know church history. There is one German Congregational church here where I live that has spawned four different spin off churches in the last 30 years. In Shepherdstown, WV there is an old Reformed Church dating from the 1800's with an old graveyard dating from 1774 on one side of the road and on the other a Lutheran Graveyard dating from 1774 - I haven't investigated further, but I'd certainly investigate if was a union church at one time with two graveyards and I'll look at both records if they are available. In Boonsboro, the Trinity Reformed Church which is on site of the old Salem Reformed Church has a long history of being both a Lutheran and Reformed union church. Out here in the west on the sparsely populated great plains there was a Catholic and Protestant church - it had a revolving altar and they staggered their services so they could both use the building. Necessity is the mother of invention. Lauren Brantner JYoung6180@aol.com wrote: >In a message dated 4/2/2005 8:49:03 PM Eastern Standard Time, >lrbrant@concentric.net writes: > >Let's put it simply - their doctrines were similar enough for them to >share ministers and buildings. >---- >Lauren- > >Do you actually know of instances where the two congregations shared the >same *minister*? I ask because I'm not aware of that ever happening--sharing >building and cemeteries, yes--but ministers I'm not aware of. I have always >thought the minister was either an ordained Lutheran or Reformed minister and >that was that. > >For example, I've seen many a reference to a Reformed pastor performing a >funeral service for a Lutheran who had died--because he was the pastor who was >available--but the records usually specified the religion of the pastor and >the individuals involved. I've never actually known a pastor to represent >both Lutheran and Reformed congregations. > > ><<My own Reformed/Lutheran Pa German family went into the wilderness of PA >and quite happily accepted the Methodist circuit rider who showed up in >1810.>> >And some of my Lutheran ancestors readily accepted the Moravian Church >because that was what was available to them at that time/place. I even have a >Catholic ancestor whose first child born in America was baptized Lutheran >because that was the only church in the area when the child was born. > >Joan > > > > > > > >==== MDWASHIN Mailing List ==== >The OFFICIAL website for this list is: >http://midatlantic.rootsweb.com/MD/washington/ > >============================== >Search the US Census Collection. Over 140 million records added in the >last 12 months. Largest online collection in the world. Learn more: http://www.ancestry.com/s13965/rd.ashx > > > > >