I have three men named Joshua Neale. Joshua Neale, parents unknown, born before 1775 and died after 1827. He married Sarah Mary (Payne) Clarke, widow of Zachariah Clarke 3/28/1815. 7/26/1827: Balance and distribution of the estate of William Clarke by Joshua Neale, Admin. Mother: Sarah Neale. Brothers: Cornelius, Charles, Raphael, Zachariah, and Henry Clarke. Half brother: John T. Neale. Joshua Neale, son of Charles Neale and Mary Maryman, born 6/2/1792 and died 10/18/1836. He married Ann M. Morgan 7/9/1819, daughter of James Morgan and his second wife, Mary Wildman. Ann M. Morgan was born 1806 and died 8/25/1862. Joshua Neale, Jr., son of Joshua Neale and Ann M. Morgan, b. 1823 and died before 9/29/1870. On 2/1/1850 Joshua Neale, Jr. married Julia Ann Payne, his first cousin (once removed), daughter of Thomas Payne and Catherine Wildman. Linda Reno -----Original Message----- From: mdstmary-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mdstmary-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Dobricky Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:37 PM To: gc-gateway@rootsweb.com; mdstmary@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MDSTMARY] John T. Neale, possible son of Joshua Neale and Sarah Mary (Payne) Clarke Hi again.....one more thought.......Joshua Neale (son of Charles Neale of James and Mary Maryman) was named for Mary Maryman's father, Joshua Maryman (d. 1798 in SMC). I know the Neales pretty well. Not only do I not know of an earlier Joshua Neale, I don't know of any reason (in terms of naming practices) why there would have been an earlier Joshua Neale. Are you sure "Neale" was the surname of the witness to the Will? John D. On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:34 PM, John Dobricky <john.dobricky@gmail.com> wrote: > Hello again. I have checked my files and know of no other > contemporary "Joshua Neale." However, if the date of the Will is > correct, the Joshua Neale who was the son of Charles Neale of James > could not have been the witness to the Will. Charles Neale of James > was not born himself until 1770. Interesting. > > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:05 AM, John Dobricky <john.dobricky@gmail.com> wrote: >> Hi. Joshua Neale was the son of Charles Neale "of James" and Mary >> Maryman. I have lots of information about that family as I am a >> descendant of Mary Ann Neale (daughter of Charles Neale of James and >> Mary Maryman)--she married Philip D. Tippett. John Dobricky >> >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:58 AM, gc-gateway@rootsweb.com >> <gc-gateway@rootsweb.com> wrote: >>> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. >>> >>> Author: tnking >>> Surnames: Neale, Morgan, Clarke, Payne, Maryman >>> Classification: queries >>> >>> Message Board URL: >>> >>> http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.maryland.counties.s tmarys/4596/mb.ashx >>> >>> Message Board Post: >>> >>> I am trying to determine if the Joshua Neale, who married Sarah Mary Clarke (nee Payne), was the son of Charles Neale of James (1770-1845) and Mary Maryman (1769-1822). >>> >>> I came across a mention of a Joshua Neale in "Proceedings of the Orphan's Court of St. Mary's County, Maryland, Book IV-A, Nov. 1826 - Dec 1829)," transcribed, compiled & indexed by Claude G. Blackwell on page 36: >>> >>> "CLARKE, William; Aug 1829; page 175; On application of Joshua Neale the court appoints him guardian to John T. Neale his son, who is one of the legal representatives of his deceased brother in law, William Clarke." >>> >>> If I am reading this correctly, then this Joshua Neale had a son, John T. Neale, who was a half-brother of William Clarke, the son of Zachariah Clarke and Sarah Payne. John T. would have been born between 1815 and 1819. (Joshua and Sarah married 3/28/1815 and Sarah died about 2/19/1819.) >>> >>> Earlier volumes of Blackwell's "Proceedings of the Orphan's Court" show Joshua Neale and his wife as the administrator of Zachariah Clarke's estate and Joshua as the administrator of William Clarke's estate. >>> >>> The earliest reference I have for a Joshua Neale comes in 1804, when a Joshua Neale witnessed the will of John Thompson (Liber: JJ #3 Folio: 82, Date of will 10/27/1804, Date of probate: 12/31/1804). >>> >>> Charles and Mary Neale's son, Joshua would have been about 12 years old, which seems too young to witness a will. Sarah was also 17 years older than this Joshua, although their ages doesn't preclude a marriage between them. Joshua did not marry Ann M. Morgan until about five months after Sarah's death, so there would be no overlap between these marriages either. >>> >>> Does anyone have any information on another Joshua Neale, who was alive in 1829 or on a John T. Neale? >>> >>> Note: This would be a third Joshua Neale since Joshua Neale and Ann M. Morgan had a son Joshua A. Neale (abt. 1823 to abt. 1869), who married Juliann Payne (abt. 1818 to aft. 1863). >>> >>> I appreciate help anyone can provide. >>> >>> Tom King >>> >>> Important Note: >>> The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MDSTMARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MDSTMARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

This is so fascinating. I had always thought Joshua Neale (son of Charles Neale of James and Mary Maryman) simply married Sarah Mary (Payne) Clarke as a younger man marrying an older woman (this happened somewhat often in old SMC). I had never thought of another third Joshua Neale. Note that it would have been legal for Joshua Neale (b. 1792--son of Charles Neale of James) to have married (in 1815) Sarah Mary (Payne) Clarke--especially since her first husband, Zachariah Clarke, would have been his (that is Joshua Neale (b. 1792)'s) first-cousin once removed. As we know, Zachariah Clarke, first husband of Sarah Mary Payne was the son of William Clarke and Mary Maryman (daughter of John Maryman and Ann (possibly Vowles)). This would have made Zachariah Clarke the first cousin of Mary (Maryman) Neale (daughter of Joshua Maryman (d. 1798--another son of John Maryman and Ann (possibly Vowles)) and Susanna (possibly Shanks, possibly Thompson, possibly just about anything)). There is, to the best of my knowledge, NO record of a Joshua Neale who existed earlier than the Joshua Neale (b. 1792)--with the exception of the Will mentioned earlier. Are we sure the Will mentioned earlier (dated 1804) was not actually signed "Jos. Neale" or "Jas. Neale"? Either of those signatures could have been mistaken by a transcriber as being shorthand for "Joshua Neale." It would be far more likely that it was James Neale (b. circa 1750 and d. 1811 in SMC--father of Charles Neale of James) who would have been the witness to the Will. Does anyone have a cogent theory as to who was the John Thompson whose 1804 SMC Will was witnessed by (the older) Joshua Neale? I have always wondered. I have associated him with the family of John Thompson "Joiner" (d. 1778-79 in SMC) mainly because of the neighborhood. Also, I have wondered if the John Thompson who died 1804 in SMC was the individual who also married Elizabeth Reeder and was involved in the Estate of Thomas Attaway Reeder a little earlier in SMC. Part of my interest is that Susanna _________ Maryman (wife of Joshua Maryman (d. 1798 in SMC)) seems to have had close ties to the Thompson family. Linda, do you have any speculation as to who the older Joshua Neale might have been? Of course, it is tempting to resurrect the old theory that James Neale (d. 1752-53 in SMC--son of Roswell Neale and Elizabeth Blackistone) may have married Elizabeth Guibert (daughter of Joshua Guibert II (d. 1743 in SMC) and Ann Boarman). Of course, it is pretty clear that James Neale (d. 1752-53 in SMC) married Elizabeth Guibert (daughter of Thomas Guibert (d. 1728-29 in SMC) and Sarah (I have come to believe possibly Boarman--sister of the Ann (Boarman) Guibert just mentioned--there is actually no evidence she was born Sarah Bagley)). Linda and I have both speculated in the past that James Neale (d. 1752-53 in SMC) may have had two wives as James Neale (b. circa 1750 and d. 1811 in SMC--the one who was the father of Charles Neale of James mentioned earlier) was not mentioned in the 1785 Charles County, MD, Will of his theoretical grandmother, Sarah (Boarman? Bagley?) Guibert Bruce Yates--even though all of her other descendants (including his sister, Sarah (Neale) Muir) were mentioned. Well, have I confused everyone enough? Theoretically, the older Joshua Neale (that is, the one b. before circa 1775--if he existed) could have been another son of James Neale (b. circa 1750 and d. 1811 in SMC) and Mary Gibson. Neither James Neale nor Mary (Gibson) Neale mentioned all of their children in their Wills in SMC. As always, thoughts, suggestions, corrections are more than welcome! John Dobricky On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 4:22 PM, Linda Reno <lindareno@comcast.net> wrote: > I have three men named Joshua Neale. > > Joshua Neale, parents unknown, born before 1775 and died after 1827. He > married Sarah Mary (Payne) Clarke, widow of Zachariah Clarke 3/28/1815. > > 7/26/1827: Balance and distribution of the estate of William Clarke by > Joshua Neale, Admin. Mother: Sarah Neale. Brothers: Cornelius, Charles, > Raphael, Zachariah, and Henry Clarke. Half brother: John T. Neale. > > Joshua Neale, son of Charles Neale and Mary Maryman, born 6/2/1792 and died > 10/18/1836. He married Ann M. Morgan 7/9/1819, daughter of James Morgan and > his second wife, Mary Wildman. Ann M. Morgan was born 1806 and died > 8/25/1862. > > Joshua Neale, Jr., son of Joshua Neale and Ann M. Morgan, b. 1823 and died > before 9/29/1870. On 2/1/1850 Joshua Neale, Jr. married Julia Ann Payne, > his first cousin (once removed), daughter of Thomas Payne and Catherine > Wildman. > > Linda Reno > > -----Original Message----- > From: mdstmary-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mdstmary-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of John Dobricky > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:37 PM > To: gc-gateway@rootsweb.com; mdstmary@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MDSTMARY] John T. Neale, possible son of Joshua Neale and > Sarah Mary (Payne) Clarke > > Hi again.....one more thought.......Joshua Neale (son of Charles Neale > of James and Mary Maryman) was named for Mary Maryman's father, Joshua > Maryman (d. 1798 in SMC). I know the Neales pretty well. Not only do > I not know of an earlier Joshua Neale, I don't know of any reason (in > terms of naming practices) why there would have been an earlier Joshua > Neale. Are you sure "Neale" was the surname of the witness to the > Will? John D. > > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:34 PM, John Dobricky <john.dobricky@gmail.com> > wrote: >> Hello again. I have checked my files and know of no other >> contemporary "Joshua Neale." However, if the date of the Will is >> correct, the Joshua Neale who was the son of Charles Neale of James >> could not have been the witness to the Will. Charles Neale of James >> was not born himself until 1770. Interesting. >> >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:05 AM, John Dobricky <john.dobricky@gmail.com> > wrote: >>> Hi. Joshua Neale was the son of Charles Neale "of James" and Mary >>> Maryman. I have lots of information about that family as I am a >>> descendant of Mary Ann Neale (daughter of Charles Neale of James and >>> Mary Maryman)--she married Philip D. Tippett. John Dobricky >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:58 AM, gc-gateway@rootsweb.com >>> <gc-gateway@rootsweb.com> wrote: >>>> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. >>>> >>>> Author: tnking >>>> Surnames: Neale, Morgan, Clarke, Payne, Maryman >>>> Classification: queries >>>> >>>> Message Board URL: >>>> >>>> > http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.maryland.counties.s > tmarys/4596/mb.ashx >>>> >>>> Message Board Post: >>>> >>>> I am trying to determine if the Joshua Neale, who married Sarah Mary > Clarke (nee Payne), was the son of Charles Neale of James (1770-1845) and > Mary Maryman (1769-1822). >>>> >>>> I came across a mention of a Joshua Neale in "Proceedings of the > Orphan's Court of St. Mary's County, Maryland, Book IV-A, Nov. 1826 - Dec > 1829)," transcribed, compiled & indexed by Claude G. Blackwell on page 36: >>>> >>>> "CLARKE, William; Aug 1829; page 175; On application of Joshua Neale the > court appoints him guardian to John T. Neale his son, who is one of the > legal representatives of his deceased brother in law, William Clarke." >>>> >>>> If I am reading this correctly, then this Joshua Neale had a son, John > T. Neale, who was a half-brother of William Clarke, the son of Zachariah > Clarke and Sarah Payne. John T. would have been born between 1815 and 1819. > (Joshua and Sarah married 3/28/1815 and Sarah died about 2/19/1819.) >>>> >>>> Earlier volumes of Blackwell's "Proceedings of the Orphan's Court" show > Joshua Neale and his wife as the administrator of Zachariah Clarke's estate > and Joshua as the administrator of William Clarke's estate. >>>> >>>> The earliest reference I have for a Joshua Neale comes in 1804, when a > Joshua Neale witnessed the will of John Thompson (Liber: JJ #3 Folio: 82, > Date of will 10/27/1804, Date of probate: 12/31/1804). >>>> >>>> Charles and Mary Neale's son, Joshua would have been about 12 years old, > which seems too young to witness a will. Sarah was also 17 years older than > this Joshua, although their ages doesn't preclude a marriage between them. > Joshua did not marry Ann M. Morgan until about five months after Sarah's > death, so there would be no overlap between these marriages either. >>>> >>>> Does anyone have any information on another Joshua Neale, who was alive > in 1829 or on a John T. Neale? >>>> >>>> Note: This would be a third Joshua Neale since Joshua Neale and Ann M. > Morgan had a son Joshua A. Neale (abt. 1823 to abt. 1869), who married > Juliann Payne (abt. 1818 to aft. 1863). >>>> >>>> I appreciate help anyone can provide. >>>> >>>> Tom King >>>> >>>> Important Note: >>>> The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you > would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link > above and respond on the board. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MDSTMARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MDSTMARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MDSTMARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Sarah Mary Payne (Clarke) Neale died 19 Feb 1819, SMC. Joshua Neale m. Ann M. Morgan, 19 Jul 1819. Are you sure this was a different Joshua than widower of Sarah Payne? He would have had a small child, John T. Neale, that needed a mother. Which Joshua Neale died 18 Oct 1850, St. Mary's Co. MD, as shown on Find-a-Grave.com ? Dave ----- Original Message ----- From: "Linda Reno" <lindareno@comcast.net> To: <mdstmary@rootsweb.com>; <gc-gateway@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:22 PM Subject: Re: [MDSTMARY] John T. Neale,possible son of Joshua Neale and Sarah Mary (Payne) Clarke >I have three men named Joshua Neale. > > Joshua Neale, parents unknown, born before 1775 and died after 1827. He > married Sarah Mary (Payne) Clarke, widow of Zachariah Clarke 3/28/1815. > > 7/26/1827: Balance and distribution of the estate of William Clarke by > Joshua Neale, Admin. Mother: Sarah Neale. Brothers: Cornelius, Charles, > Raphael, Zachariah, and Henry Clarke. Half brother: John T. Neale. > > Joshua Neale, son of Charles Neale and Mary Maryman, born 6/2/1792 and > died > 10/18/1836. He married Ann M. Morgan 7/9/1819, daughter of James Morgan > and > his second wife, Mary Wildman. Ann M. Morgan was born 1806 and died > 8/25/1862. > > Joshua Neale, Jr., son of Joshua Neale and Ann M. Morgan, b. 1823 and died > before 9/29/1870. On 2/1/1850 Joshua Neale, Jr. married Julia Ann Payne, > his first cousin (once removed), daughter of Thomas Payne and Catherine > Wildman. > > Linda Reno > > -----Original Message----- > From: mdstmary-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mdstmary-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of John Dobricky > Sent: Wednesday, March 13, 2013 3:37 PM > To: gc-gateway@rootsweb.com; mdstmary@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MDSTMARY] John T. Neale, possible son of Joshua Neale and > Sarah Mary (Payne) Clarke > > Hi again.....one more thought.......Joshua Neale (son of Charles Neale > of James and Mary Maryman) was named for Mary Maryman's father, Joshua > Maryman (d. 1798 in SMC). I know the Neales pretty well. Not only do > I not know of an earlier Joshua Neale, I don't know of any reason (in > terms of naming practices) why there would have been an earlier Joshua > Neale. Are you sure "Neale" was the surname of the witness to the > Will? John D. > > On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 3:34 PM, John Dobricky <john.dobricky@gmail.com> > wrote: >> Hello again. I have checked my files and know of no other >> contemporary "Joshua Neale." However, if the date of the Will is >> correct, the Joshua Neale who was the son of Charles Neale of James >> could not have been the witness to the Will. Charles Neale of James >> was not born himself until 1770. Interesting. >> >> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 11:05 AM, John Dobricky <john.dobricky@gmail.com> > wrote: >>> Hi. Joshua Neale was the son of Charles Neale "of James" and Mary >>> Maryman. I have lots of information about that family as I am a >>> descendant of Mary Ann Neale (daughter of Charles Neale of James and >>> Mary Maryman)--she married Philip D. Tippett. John Dobricky >>> >>> On Wed, Mar 13, 2013 at 10:58 AM, gc-gateway@rootsweb.com >>> <gc-gateway@rootsweb.com> wrote: >>>> This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. >>>> >>>> Author: tnking >>>> Surnames: Neale, Morgan, Clarke, Payne, Maryman >>>> Classification: queries >>>> >>>> Message Board URL: >>>> >>>> > http://boards.rootsweb.com/localities.northam.usa.states.maryland.counties.s > tmarys/4596/mb.ashx >>>> >>>> Message Board Post: >>>> >>>> I am trying to determine if the Joshua Neale, who married Sarah Mary > Clarke (nee Payne), was the son of Charles Neale of James (1770-1845) and > Mary Maryman (1769-1822). >>>> >>>> I came across a mention of a Joshua Neale in "Proceedings of the > Orphan's Court of St. Mary's County, Maryland, Book IV-A, Nov. 1826 - Dec > 1829)," transcribed, compiled & indexed by Claude G. Blackwell on page 36: >>>> >>>> "CLARKE, William; Aug 1829; page 175; On application of Joshua Neale >>>> the > court appoints him guardian to John T. Neale his son, who is one of the > legal representatives of his deceased brother in law, William Clarke." >>>> >>>> If I am reading this correctly, then this Joshua Neale had a son, John > T. Neale, who was a half-brother of William Clarke, the son of Zachariah > Clarke and Sarah Payne. John T. would have been born between 1815 and > 1819. > (Joshua and Sarah married 3/28/1815 and Sarah died about 2/19/1819.) >>>> >>>> Earlier volumes of Blackwell's "Proceedings of the Orphan's Court" show > Joshua Neale and his wife as the administrator of Zachariah Clarke's > estate > and Joshua as the administrator of William Clarke's estate. >>>> >>>> The earliest reference I have for a Joshua Neale comes in 1804, when a > Joshua Neale witnessed the will of John Thompson (Liber: JJ #3 Folio: 82, > Date of will 10/27/1804, Date of probate: 12/31/1804). >>>> >>>> Charles and Mary Neale's son, Joshua would have been about 12 years >>>> old, > which seems too young to witness a will. Sarah was also 17 years older > than > this Joshua, although their ages doesn't preclude a marriage between them. > Joshua did not marry Ann M. Morgan until about five months after Sarah's > death, so there would be no overlap between these marriages either. >>>> >>>> Does anyone have any information on another Joshua Neale, who was alive > in 1829 or on a John T. Neale? >>>> >>>> Note: This would be a third Joshua Neale since Joshua Neale and Ann M. > Morgan had a son Joshua A. Neale (abt. 1823 to abt. 1869), who married > Juliann Payne (abt. 1818 to aft. 1863). >>>> >>>> I appreciate help anyone can provide. >>>> >>>> Tom King >>>> >>>> Important Note: >>>> The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you > would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link > above and respond on the board. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MDSTMARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MDSTMARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MDSTMARY-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message