Patience, Did all those children have the same mother? Bettie

Hi, I finally found a maiden name for my Sophia Isabella Smith.According to marriage records she was Sophia Isabella Hagner born abt 1825 in Maryland.Married Ferdinand Smith in Baltimore city Dec 14 1841.Anyone out there researching Hagners in Baltimore or Maryland? She died Sept 24 1902 and is buried in Western Cemetery. Thanks Lynn

When I was a child, and I'm 70 now, giving birth out of wedlock was a disgrace to the entire family so some women would raise a grandchild as their own and the child would go through life thinking her mother was her sister. Very often the child was never told. That must cause a lot of confusion for a genealogist.

You bet! That and the fact that grandparents raised their son's children. North Carolina had "Basterdy Bonds" where the mother had to tell the name of the father or pay $200.00 at the time of the birth. The father had to pay that or agree to support the child so that the child wouldn't become a dependent of the state. In the 1800s my gg grandfather has several children 4-5 months apart in the census. ?? It has been driving me up a wall. Patience Patscga@aol.com wrote: > When I was a child, and I'm 70 now, giving birth out of wedlock was a > disgrace to the entire family so some women would raise a grandchild as their > own and the child would go through life thinking her mother was her sister. > Very often the child was never told. That must cause a lot of confusion for > a genealogist. > > > ==== MDGEN Mailing List ==== > No Spamming : No attachments are allowed . > >

I know what you mean! Mine are the same! I tried for years to get info from my grandmother about her father and she finally gave me a few tidbits about him. When I researched him, I discovered he had been married prior to his marriage to my great grandmother, the marriage which produced my grandmother & siblings. I debated for some time about telling my grandmother what I had found out about her father. Finally, I spoke to her about it. "Mom-Mom, while doing my research on your father, I found some records that indicate he was married once before he married your mother." "Yes," she confided. "But we don't talk about that." :-) Talk about stubborn! Kay -----Original Message----- From: PATKRAM@aol.com [mailto:PATKRAM@aol.com] Sent: Friday, April 18, 2003 10:56 PM To: MDGEN-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MDGEN] relatives whose minds will not be changed I don't know about your relatives, but mine are hardheaded enough that I usually feel that arguing just isn't worth it. Pat ==== MDGEN Mailing List ==== Census project needs transcribers for any state . There web page is http://www.rootsweb.com/~census/index.htm

I make notes in my genealogy to accommodate those who will not be changed. For instance, a cousin insists that his grandmother's first name was Theresa despite the fact she appears in three census as "Anna T." So I added a note stating "she was known to her family as Theresa but all census refer to her as Anna T." It's my work after all and I insist upon accuracy.

Thanks to all for your replies..you all have had the same reaction that I did [and do]. TO Try to ignore the roll of the eyes, the arguments, because, as Mary June so adequately put it... "They think you are CRAZY anyway!! But when someone wants to know something for their children's school projects etc, who do they call?? You, of course." I have found that I have had 2 reactions: 1. I did a book on my husband's parents.. married 70 years at the time, he was 95, she was 89. I wrote about them, their siblings, parentage, grandparentage, and ancestors on both sides of their family. We gave the books as Cmas presents to them as well as to husband's siblings....and was met with the 'ho hum, isn't this nice' with a roll of the eyes. BUT, when the mother passed away, and they were trying to remember about her siblings ["I think she had a sister, didn't she?"], when I said, GUYS, go to the BOOK.. it's all in there!! Only THEN did they realize the gem they had.. So, my status as an inlaw was definitely raised! 2. THEN, I wrote a book with documentation on my mother's maternal line.. coordinated a reunion and met at the church and cemetery where the patriarch was buried.. LOW and behold, I was confronted with those who were livid that one of the patriarch's sons' stones had WILLIAM on it.. "I don't know who ordered this stone, but WILLIAM was NEVER his name!!".. My grandmother had ordered the stone for her father, and before it became popular, SHE was the family historian, in her own way.. WELL, in that 'wonderful' book I wrote, low and behold.. there was the marriage license for that 'William'.. and WHAT did he write down his name was?...... WILLIAM!! What a hoot!! I didn't argue, but oh my, I giggled inside!! So I am appreciative of the feedback.. tells me that I am handling it the right and 'classy' way.. Patience, There's a story behind your mother's admission to someone else being her mother... How intriguing!! Thanks to all! Lanita My family coat of arms ties at the back... is that normal? For information on my families, check out my website: www.lanitasloft.com

I joined the ships list. They talked about size of ships and cargo, etc., little else. They did post urls to lists of ships. Good if you have the name. TheShipsList-L@rootsweb.com Then I joined the mariners list. Much better for finding people. Mariners-L@rootsweb.com Also I joined the pirates list. (; Some people don'e believe in them. PIRATES-L@rootsweb.com Then, I am on the Shipwrecks list. Divers and treasure hunters. (: SHIPWRECK-L@rootsweb.com Actually these urls came from one or the other of the others. So in many ways they are helpful. I did enjoy the ships list especially the little trips around the docks of Liverpool by d.a.h.yates. They are precious. Patience Mary & Stan Hopkins wrote: > Patience Northern just mentioned that she has a gggf who was supposedly > (maybe) lost at sea. How does one go about trying to find out about such > things? I have a g...gf Daniel Driscoll who was also supposedly lost at sea > around 1750-1760 and I have no idea where to begin looking. Does anyone have > any idea about a starting point? > > Thanks! > > > ==== MDGEN Mailing List ==== > All post goes directly to the list , If you want to respond to a post that someone posted you will need change the email address to that person . > >

Any idea where he was lost at sea? That would be a good beginning point. Then you could type in that area on www.google.com and see what kind of resources there are for records, including the rootsweb lists. According to oral history a friend's grandfather died at sea. She finally unearthed his death certificate and some other records from the tiny island of Saba in the Carribean, where he'd originally been from, and it seems he died during the 1917/18 flu epidemic and is actually buried in Cuba. There was more detail in the paperwork, but that's the nutshell version. Good luck! Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: Mary & Stan Hopkins <mhopkins@connext.net> To: <MDGEN-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, April 19, 2003 9:21 AM Subject: [MDGEN] 'Lost at sea' > Patience Northern just mentioned that she has a gggf who was supposedly > (maybe) lost at sea. How does one go about trying to find out about such > things? I have a g...gf Daniel Driscoll who was also supposedly lost at sea > around 1750-1760 and I have no idea where to begin looking. Does anyone have > any idea about a starting point? > > Thanks! > > > ==== MDGEN Mailing List ==== > All post goes directly to the list , If you want to respond to a post that someone posted you will need change the email address to that person . > >

Patience Northern just mentioned that she has a gggf who was supposedly (maybe) lost at sea. How does one go about trying to find out about such things? I have a g...gf Daniel Driscoll who was also supposedly lost at sea around 1750-1760 and I have no idea where to begin looking. Does anyone have any idea about a starting point? Thanks!

I keep records on both "ideas". We have a legend of our gg grandfather being lost at sea. There are no records to justify that so far. Some have discarded the legend. I have found scenarios that lead to other answers. Proof or not I keep files on both. You never know what the future holds. (: Then there is my mother's marriage application. She states her mother is someone else beside my known grandmother. My siblings are furious - At Me! Did she make a mistake? An odd one if she did. However, I keep both records. Patience lanita miller wrote: > Just wondering how others have dealt with this problem... > > When confronted with relatives who are convinced that they 'know' a fact > when they are basing a story on legend, and argues against your > documentation that proves otherwise, how do you convince them that the > legend that they have been taught from childhood, is wrong? > > Or do you try? AND....When do you say 'ENOUGH"!! when their minds won't > be changed? > > Lanita Sconce Miller > Wichita, KS > > > For information on my families, check out my website: > www.lanitasloft.com > > > I'm always late. My ancestors arrived on the JUNE flower. > > > > ==== MDGEN Mailing List ==== > To unsubscribe from the list : MDGEN-L-request@rootsweb.com or if you > are on the Digest replace the L with D and Put unsubscribe in the > subject line > >

I don't know about your relatives, but mine are hardheaded enough that I usually feel that arguing just isn't worth it. Pat

Just wondering how others have dealt with this problem... When confronted with relatives who are convinced that they 'know' a fact when they are basing a story on legend, and argues against your documentation that proves otherwise, how do you convince them that the legend that they have been taught from childhood, is wrong? Or do you try? AND....When do you say 'ENOUGH"!! when their minds won't be changed? Lanita Sconce Miller Wichita, KS For information on my families, check out my website: www.lanitasloft.com I'm always late. My ancestors arrived on the JUNE flower.

Passport records prior to 1926 are kept by the National Archives in Washington, DC. Later records are held by the Department of State. The NARA holdings have been microiflmed so you may be able to view them at a Fmaily History Center. Also don't overlook NARA's diplomatic records. I had an ancestor who died abroad and the US Consul in England sent a letter to the family. These records also filmed Here is NARA's site to check for more information on passports: www.archives.gov/research_room/genealogy/research_topics/passport_applications .html Rebecca

My g-grandfather left Baltimore or Baltimore County to settle some family matter somewhere in Scotland about 1885 and family history says he died there. If I could find his passport record, it could be most helpful. Anyone know how I can do that? Thanks.

OBITS FROM BALTIMORE SUN 1915 BERNHARD -Suddenly on October 30, 1915, Elmer, aged 54 years, beloved husband of Bertha Bernhard. Relatives and friends of the family are respectfully invited to attend the funeral services at his late residence, No. 681 West Fayette St., this Wednesday morning, at 10 o'clock. BRANT-On November 1, 1915, Elizabeth, beloved wife of John H. Brant [nee Bennett], aged 67 years. [Washington, D. C., papers please copy] Funeral from her late residence, No. 313 East West St., of which due notice will be given. BUSSETT-On November 2, 1915 at her residence, No 325 East Lanvale Street, Anna, aged 64 years, widow of George Bussett. Funeral services will be held in the Cathedral, Easton, MD., on Thursday at 11 A.M. Interment in Easton, MD. CORNTHWAITE-On November 1, 1915, Anna Maria, aged 67 years, beloved wife of Louis A. Cornthwaite. [New York and Washington [D C] newspapers please copy.] Funeral will take place from her late residence, No. 639 South Paca St. this Wednesday, at 2 P.M. Relatives and friends are invited to attend. FARLEY---Bridget T., beloved wife of William J. Farley. Funeral from her late residence. No 429 East Twenty-seventh St., of which due notice will be given. FLEISCHER-On October 31, 1915, at his residence, No. 3215 Strickland St. William H., aged 60 years beloved husband of the late Katharine Fleischer. Funeral will take place from the above residence this [ Wednesday] afternoon, at 2:30 o'clock. Interment in Loudon Park Cemetery. FRANCE-Suddenly, on the morning of November 2, 1915, Ambrose M. France, aged 80 years, beloved husband of the late Laura V. France. Funeral will take place from his late residence, No. 708 North Howard St. on Thursday afternoon, at 3 o'clock. GRAPE-Entered into rest on November 2, 1915, John T., beloved husband of Sophia F. Grape. Relatives and friends are invited to attend the funeral services at his late residence, No.1224 McCulloh St. on Friday afternoon at 2 o'clock.

ONE LAST REMINDER-MARK YOUR CALENDAR REMINDER*****REMINDER*****REMINDER Yep, its that time again, time to get out the old photos, dust off the memories, and get your families together to attend the 5th Annual Norwood Reunion, with our own Kitty Crowley. It will be held Wednesday April 23. Doors open at 6:00 pm. It will be held in the Fire Hall on Twin Arch Rd and 27 in Mt Airy. If you need directions, email me. (Wanda-- wandabhall@comcast.net ) The menu will be: Fruit salad, tossed salad, fried chicken, roast beef, mashed potatoes/gravy, green beans, rolls/butter, dessert, coffee/tea. The price per person is $13.00. This includes cost of Fire Hall and handouts. Please make out your checks to Travis Norwood and mail to P. O. Box 181, Mount Airy, Md. 21771. He will need the final count and money by April l7. Kitty will be continuing the family line after Belt Norwood and discussing where YOU fit in on the family chart. She will also discuss how to do Basic research in your own Attic. Handouts will be provided and blank forms for take home. Remember, Kitty is collecting information for the Norwood book. If she doesn't get your information from you, it won't be in the book! Please contact me, (Wanda-- wandabhall@comcast.net ) if you are interested in coming. We welcome and encourage all Norwood descendants and their guests. So, if you know of anyone interested in Norwood family history, or other family members, or almost family members, please copy and send them this invitation and have them reply. Related families include: WATKINS, CLAGGETT or CLAGETT, HOLLAND, MOXLEY, HAWKINS, BEALL, BAKER, BURDETTE, BROWNING, CAIN, HOBBS, BARLOW, BECRAFT, BOYER, HOOD, LEWIS, LEASE, GEISLER, JACOBS, KING, RICHARDS, RIDGELY, KINDLEY, GUE, BRANDENBURG, REMSBURG/RAMSBURG, CONAWAY. If not sure, come anyway, we will find your connection. We will have a digital camera, laptop computer., and scanner. We would like the old photos of individuals or group family photos, and some present day ones also., especially if they can't attend. Obits, wedding, birth, and death announcements are also very important for Kitty's research. The photos turned out very well from last year, including the one of a Death Card, which Kitty had never seen. We also got a photo of Len Easton's grandmother, which he did not have. Do you have a pile of unidentified people? Bring them along too. Maybe we can find family resemblances... Directions: Send Travis your check Email Wanda with # attending or questions wandabhall@comcast.net <mailto:wandabhall@comcast.net>

Would like to exchange information with anyone interested in any of the subject families that lived in Baltimore during the mid and/or late 1800s. Jerry

Hi everyone, This week I've added 9 new databases to my site, Awesome Genealogy. I've also made some major updates to my State of Delaware section which can be found here: http://www.awesomegenealogy.com/state_delaware.shtml My newest databases can be found here: http://www.awesomegenealogy.com/newstuff.shtml They include: Accessions to the Presbytery of Lewes, Delaware from 1760 - 1788 Accessions to the Presbytery of New Castle, Delaware, Pennsylvania and Maryland from 1760 - 1788 Marriages of the Holy Trinity Church, Delaware, 1752 Naturalization of Germans in Lehigh County, Pennsylvania 1815-1830 --If you find an ancestor listed here, email me, as I have more information on each of these men Boston Port Arrivals of Irish Immigrants in 1762 --This is the beginning of a series of Irish immigrants who arrived in Boston from 1762-1769. For the most part the ships they came in on are not listed, however the names of the arrivals will be listed year by year, hopefully allowing for easier searches for their actual ships on other sites. The Dead and Wounded from Benedict Arnold's Expeditionary Force in 1775 --Listing those men from Cambridge, Massachusetts Translations from German to English of Genealogy and Relationship Terms Translations from German to English of each Month of the Year --In response to a growing amount of queries and questions regarding German translations, I've added these two new databases in the hopes of helping people out who are having trouble with the German terms. Old Newspaper Records from the Germantown, Pennsylvania Area in 1753 --These continuing series of extracts from various Newspapers now cover from 1747-1753, 1756-1757, 1767-1770 and from 1781-1783. Details in these vary, with one-line descriptions of possible ancestors to entire paragraphs detailing family lines and when they immigrated to the United States, most often from Germany. Over the last two weeks I have also made additions to the following sections: http://www.awesomegenealogy.com/naturalizations.shtml http://www.awesomegenealogy.com/churchrecords.shtml http://www.awesomegenealogy.com/german.shtml http://www.awesomegenealogy.com/newengland.shtml http://www.awesomegenealogy.com/state_pennsylvania.shtml Enjoy! Roger Awesome Genealogy http://www.awesomegenealogy.com --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - File online, calculators, forms, and more

Hi Listers: COLE (or COALE) Seeking a photo(or any info) of my mother's first husband SAMUEL EDWARD COLE (or Edward Samuel Cole) born in 1885 in Cherry Hill (Cecil CO.), MD. but lived most of his life in Newark, DE. with his sister IDA Morrison. He married my mom in Hartford, CT. in Aug.1917 but they were separated by 1919. He was a member of the Knights of Pythias; Masons; volunteer fireman in Newark and a member of the Methodist Church. He was also a well-known paper mill worker (Curtis and others). He also was well-known in the Westchester, PA. area). He died in 1940 and is buried in the Methodist Church Cemetery in Cherry Hill, MD. peter19252000@juno.com