Thanks Carolyn. I appreciate it. Lois In a message dated 8/30/2006 4:22:25 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I'll check for you. There is a really old book of the Kramer's. I have my line which descended from the Jolliffe's from Smithtown and Fairmont. There were several brothers and sisters and other lines listed in the book. Sorry I can't remember the name...it's been a long time since I've seen it. Carolyn