Thanks for the information Don! I have never heard of the Scot's "naming way" until now. Is it a book? My grandmother says her family bible states my Thomas "E.T." McMurray was born about 1785 in NC. That makes Thomas number one more of a fit. Maybe he was born there, then moved to Kentucky. I may need some help on this. Just keep your eyes open for any Thomas McMurrays born about 1780 on. Thank you everyone! Michelle McMurray -----Original Message----- From: Don McMurray [mailto:don@norrishouse.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:38 PM To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book Michelle, Thomas McMurray, son of William (son of William the Elder) was the first of the siblings to move to Ky. Interestingly, and I have never found out why, he settled in and died in Crab Orchard, Lincoln Co., Ky. This wasn't too far from where the other siblings settled in 1789 on Thomas's brother, John's 1,000 acre claim on the Rolling fork near what is now Bradfordsville, Ky. The men you should consider for your Thomas McMurray's father are the brothers, John (the oldest), James (my ancestor), and Thomas of Crab Orchard, Ky. Another brother, Robert left the Shenandoah Valley of Va. (near where I now live) in 1811 to join the McMurray siblings (John, James, and their two married sisters) on the Rolling fork but Robert didn't have a son named Thomas. 1) Jane & James McMurray's son, Thomas was born circa 1794. The date is based on an 1815 Tax List in which this Thomas is listed in James's household as a "White male above 21." I know that Thomas is Jane & James's son because he and his brother, William (my ancestor), served together in the same outfit in 1814 at the Battle of New Orleans (as did several other McMurray cousins in other outfits). As you know, militia companies were formed in specific areas of a county. I have no information who Thomas married if, in fact, he did marry. 2) Christina & Thomas McMurray's son, Thomas was born about 1795, nothing else is known about him as far as I know. 3) Elizabeth & John McMurray's son, Thomas was born 19 June 1806. He married a Rebecca Pettus 1/24/1828. There is a lot of information on his family. As you can see, your best bets, depending on the age issue, are No's 1) and 2). Since nothing is known about these two sons named Thomas you may hit pay dirt. It will take someone like you to move back in time to identify your Thomas as a son of one of the McMurray men. Are you familiar with the Scot's "naming way"? It helped me a great deal when I traced my William to his birth location on the Rolling fork. At that time, there were eight men in Va., Ky. & Tenn. named William McMurray. I had to trace every one of these men named William until I found my guy. Good hunting and let me know if I can help. Don -----Original Message----- From: Michelle McMurray de Luces [mailto:smcmurray@nc.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:37 PM To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book Hi Don, That is quite a story! Thank you for taking the time to help others with your knowledge. I am wondering if the Thomas (brother of John)you mentioned is the Thomas I am looking for. The only info I have is Thomas E. T.? McMurray having lived in Kentucky or Illinois. He married a woman named "Mary." I have no date of births for these folks. I know that my Thomas was probably born around the late 1700's. Your Thomas may be too old to be the same guy. Tom & Mary bore a son named Huston (Houston?)Gillespie McMurray around 1825. It makes me wonder how in the world I'm going to find out since no one kept any records that are still with us. Michelle McMurray

Michelle, there are several books on the Scottish naming pattern, one excellent book is "Albion's Seed" by David Fischer (sp?). Another good reference book is Eyre-Todd's "The Highland Clans of Scotland." Essentially what they say about naming children is that the family's given names were all-important, surnames came along relatively late in the game. So it was essential for the given names to be honored, protected, and repeated in a set way. Even to the point of re-using a special given name in the event of the death of a child (this could through things off a bit). This occurred in my family from the very beginning in the Highlands of Scotland to America in the mid-1800's. Here's the "naming way" for boys, first son named after the paternal father, second son named after the maternal father, third son named after the father, fourth son named after a brother or honored uncle, and so on. For girls it was reversed, first daughter named after the maternal mother, second daughter named after the paternal mother, third daughter named after the mother, fourth daughter named after a sister or honored aunt, and so on. Regards, Don -----Original Message----- From: Michelle McMurray de Luces [mailto:smcmurray@nc.rr.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:02 PM To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book Thanks for the information Don! I have never heard of the Scot's "naming way" until now. Is it a book? My grandmother says her family bible states my Thomas "E.T." McMurray was born about 1785 in NC. That makes Thomas number one more of a fit. Maybe he was born there, then moved to Kentucky. I may need some help on this. Just keep your eyes open for any Thomas McMurrays born about 1780 on. Thank you everyone! Michelle McMurray -----Original Message----- From: Don McMurray [mailto:don@norrishouse.com] Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:38 PM To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book Michelle, Thomas McMurray, son of William (son of William the Elder) was the first of the siblings to move to Ky. Interestingly, and I have never found out why, he settled in and died in Crab Orchard, Lincoln Co., Ky. This wasn't too far from where the other siblings settled in 1789 on Thomas's brother, John's 1,000 acre claim on the Rolling fork near what is now Bradfordsville, Ky. The men you should consider for your Thomas McMurray's father are the brothers, John (the oldest), James (my ancestor), and Thomas of Crab Orchard, Ky. Another brother, Robert left the Shenandoah Valley of Va. (near where I now live) in 1811 to join the McMurray siblings (John, James, and their two married sisters) on the Rolling fork but Robert didn't have a son named Thomas. 1) Jane & James McMurray's son, Thomas was born circa 1794. The date is based on an 1815 Tax List in which this Thomas is listed in James's household as a "White male above 21." I know that Thomas is Jane & James's son because he and his brother, William (my ancestor), served together in the same outfit in 1814 at the Battle of New Orleans (as did several other McMurray cousins in other outfits). As you know, militia companies were formed in specific areas of a county. I have no information who Thomas married if, in fact, he did marry. 2) Christina & Thomas McMurray's son, Thomas was born about 1795, nothing else is known about him as far as I know. 3) Elizabeth & John McMurray's son, Thomas was born 19 June 1806. He married a Rebecca Pettus 1/24/1828. There is a lot of information on his family. As you can see, your best bets, depending on the age issue, are No's 1) and 2). Since nothing is known about these two sons named Thomas you may hit pay dirt. It will take someone like you to move back in time to identify your Thomas as a son of one of the McMurray men. Are you familiar with the Scot's "naming way"? It helped me a great deal when I traced my William to his birth location on the Rolling fork. At that time, there were eight men in Va., Ky. & Tenn. named William McMurray. I had to trace every one of these men named William until I found my guy. Good hunting and let me know if I can help. Don -----Original Message----- From: Michelle McMurray de Luces [mailto:smcmurray@nc.rr.com] Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:37 PM To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book Hi Don, That is quite a story! Thank you for taking the time to help others with your knowledge. I am wondering if the Thomas (brother of John)you mentioned is the Thomas I am looking for. The only info I have is Thomas E. T.? McMurray having lived in Kentucky or Illinois. He married a woman named "Mary." I have no date of births for these folks. I know that my Thomas was probably born around the late 1700's. Your Thomas may be too old to be the same guy. Tom & Mary bore a son named Huston (Houston?)Gillespie McMurray around 1825. It makes me wonder how in the world I'm going to find out since no one kept any records that are still with us. Michelle McMurray ______________________________

Don, If I use the Sottish naming patterns to try to track my Thomas who was in Blount AL, his son Robert named his first son John. That may mean that his father's name was John Thomas. This is the Thomas none of us seem to be able to trace back beyond him. Have you ever run across a John Thomas born about 1785 in NC or TN. Thomas named his first son Samuel and his second son Robert. They may not have followed the pattern because Robert did not name any son after his wifes father. I am beginning to think we will never trace this Thomas McMurry. Beth McMurry Clarke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don McMurray" <don@norrishouse.com> To: <MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 12:45 PM Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book > Michelle, there are several books on the Scottish naming pattern, one > excellent book is "Albion's Seed" by David Fischer (sp?). Another good > reference book is Eyre-Todd's "The Highland Clans of Scotland." > Essentially what they say about naming children is that the family's given > names were all-important, surnames came along relatively late in the game. > So it was essential for the given names to be honored, protected, and > repeated in a set way. Even to the point of re-using a special given name > in the event of the death of a child (this could through things off a bit). > This occurred in my family from the very beginning in the Highlands of > Scotland to America in the mid-1800's. > > Here's the "naming way" for boys, first son named after the paternal > father, second son named after the maternal father, third son named after > the father, fourth son named after a brother or honored uncle, and so on. > For girls it was reversed, first daughter named after the maternal mother, > second daughter named after the paternal mother, third daughter named after > the mother, fourth daughter named after a sister or honored aunt, and so on. > > Regards, Don > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michelle McMurray de Luces [mailto:smcmurray@nc.rr.com] > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:02 PM > To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book > > > Thanks for the information Don! > > I have never heard of the Scot's "naming way" until now. Is it a book? > > My grandmother says her family bible states my Thomas "E.T." McMurray was > born about 1785 in NC. That makes Thomas number one more of a fit. Maybe > he was born there, then moved to Kentucky. > > I may need some help on this. Just keep your eyes open for any Thomas > McMurrays born about 1780 on. > > Thank you everyone! > > Michelle McMurray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don McMurray [mailto:don@norrishouse.com] > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:38 PM > To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book > > > Michelle, Thomas McMurray, son of William (son of William the Elder) was the > first of the siblings to move to Ky. Interestingly, and I have never found > out why, he settled in and died in Crab Orchard, Lincoln Co., Ky. This > wasn't too far from where the other siblings settled in 1789 on Thomas's > brother, John's 1,000 acre claim on the Rolling fork near what is now > Bradfordsville, Ky. > > The men you should consider for your Thomas McMurray's father are the > brothers, John (the oldest), James (my ancestor), and Thomas of Crab > Orchard, Ky. Another brother, Robert left the Shenandoah Valley of Va. > (near where I now live) in 1811 to join the McMurray siblings (John, James, > and their two married sisters) on the Rolling fork but Robert didn't have a > son named Thomas. > > 1) Jane & James McMurray's son, Thomas was born circa 1794. The date is > based on an 1815 Tax List in which this Thomas is listed in James's > household as a "White male above 21." I know that Thomas is Jane & James's > son because he and his brother, William (my ancestor), served together in > the same outfit in 1814 at the Battle of New Orleans (as did several other > McMurray cousins in other outfits). As you know, militia companies were > formed in specific areas of a county. I have no information who Thomas > married if, in fact, he did marry. > > 2) Christina & Thomas McMurray's son, Thomas was born about 1795, nothing > else is known about him as far as I know. > > 3) Elizabeth & John McMurray's son, Thomas was born 19 June 1806. He > married a Rebecca Pettus 1/24/1828. There is a lot of information on his > family. > > As you can see, your best bets, depending on the age issue, are No's 1) and > 2). Since nothing is known about these two sons named Thomas you may hit > pay dirt. It will take someone like you to move back in time to identify > your Thomas as a son of one of the McMurray men. Are you familiar with the > Scot's "naming way"? It helped me a great deal when I traced my William to > his birth location on the Rolling fork. At that time, there were eight men > in Va., Ky. & Tenn. named William McMurray. I had to trace every one of > these men named William until I found my guy. > > Good hunting and let me know if I can help. > > Don > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michelle McMurray de Luces [mailto:smcmurray@nc.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:37 PM > To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book > > > Hi Don, > > That is quite a story! Thank you for taking the time to help others with > your knowledge. > > I am wondering if the Thomas (brother of John)you mentioned is the Thomas I > am looking for. The only info I have is Thomas E. T.? McMurray having lived > in Kentucky or Illinois. He married a woman named "Mary." I have no date > of births for these folks. I know that my Thomas was probably born around > the late 1700's. Your Thomas may be too old to be the same guy. Tom & Mary > bore a son named Huston (Houston?)Gillespie McMurray around 1825. > > It makes me wonder how in the world I'm going to find out since no one kept > any records that are still with us. > > Michelle McMurray > > ______________________________ > >

Beth, it is possible but unlikely that a second give name was used in the late 1700's. The use of second names began as a result of two many kids with the same first name. Like my ancestor, William's name, it was the name of our patriarch so every son and grandson had a son named William. There were so many William McMurrays in 1795-1805 period in Ky., Tenn. and Va., that I had to trace eight of them to find my guy. And not one had a second given name. Keep in mind that the "naming way" was sacred for many families but not for all families. Or there could have been a reason for a change in the pattern. The pattern is a good tool but not infallible Don -----Original Message----- From: Beth & Les Clarke [mailto:bethnles@tampabay.rr.com] Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 7:15 PM To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [McMurry] McMurry family book Don, If I use the Sottish naming patterns to try to track my Thomas who was in Blount AL, his son Robert named his first son John. That may mean that his father's name was John Thomas. This is the Thomas none of us seem to be able to trace back beyond him. Have you ever run across a John Thomas born about 1785 in NC or TN. Thomas named his first son Samuel and his second son Robert. They may not have followed the pattern because Robert did not name any son after his wifes father. I am beginning to think we will never trace this Thomas McMurry. Beth McMurry Clarke ----- Original Message ----- From: "Don McMurray" <don@norrishouse.com> To: <MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, May 04, 2002 12:45 PM Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book > Michelle, there are several books on the Scottish naming pattern, one > excellent book is "Albion's Seed" by David Fischer (sp?). Another good > reference book is Eyre-Todd's "The Highland Clans of Scotland." > Essentially what they say about naming children is that the family's given > names were all-important, surnames came along relatively late in the game. > So it was essential for the given names to be honored, protected, and > repeated in a set way. Even to the point of re-using a special given name > in the event of the death of a child (this could through things off a bit). > This occurred in my family from the very beginning in the Highlands of > Scotland to America in the mid-1800's. > > Here's the "naming way" for boys, first son named after the paternal > father, second son named after the maternal father, third son named after > the father, fourth son named after a brother or honored uncle, and so on. > For girls it was reversed, first daughter named after the maternal mother, > second daughter named after the paternal mother, third daughter named after > the mother, fourth daughter named after a sister or honored aunt, and so on. > > Regards, Don > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michelle McMurray de Luces [mailto:smcmurray@nc.rr.com] > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 5:02 PM > To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book > > > Thanks for the information Don! > > I have never heard of the Scot's "naming way" until now. Is it a book? > > My grandmother says her family bible states my Thomas "E.T." McMurray was > born about 1785 in NC. That makes Thomas number one more of a fit. Maybe > he was born there, then moved to Kentucky. > > I may need some help on this. Just keep your eyes open for any Thomas > McMurrays born about 1780 on. > > Thank you everyone! > > Michelle McMurray > > -----Original Message----- > From: Don McMurray [mailto:don@norrishouse.com] > Sent: Friday, May 03, 2002 12:38 PM > To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book > > > Michelle, Thomas McMurray, son of William (son of William the Elder) was the > first of the siblings to move to Ky. Interestingly, and I have never found > out why, he settled in and died in Crab Orchard, Lincoln Co., Ky. This > wasn't too far from where the other siblings settled in 1789 on Thomas's > brother, John's 1,000 acre claim on the Rolling fork near what is now > Bradfordsville, Ky. > > The men you should consider for your Thomas McMurray's father are the > brothers, John (the oldest), James (my ancestor), and Thomas of Crab > Orchard, Ky. Another brother, Robert left the Shenandoah Valley of Va. > (near where I now live) in 1811 to join the McMurray siblings (John, James, > and their two married sisters) on the Rolling fork but Robert didn't have a > son named Thomas. > > 1) Jane & James McMurray's son, Thomas was born circa 1794. The date is > based on an 1815 Tax List in which this Thomas is listed in James's > household as a "White male above 21." I know that Thomas is Jane & James's > son because he and his brother, William (my ancestor), served together in > the same outfit in 1814 at the Battle of New Orleans (as did several other > McMurray cousins in other outfits). As you know, militia companies were > formed in specific areas of a county. I have no information who Thomas > married if, in fact, he did marry. > > 2) Christina & Thomas McMurray's son, Thomas was born about 1795, nothing > else is known about him as far as I know. > > 3) Elizabeth & John McMurray's son, Thomas was born 19 June 1806. He > married a Rebecca Pettus 1/24/1828. There is a lot of information on his > family. > > As you can see, your best bets, depending on the age issue, are No's 1) and > 2). Since nothing is known about these two sons named Thomas you may hit > pay dirt. It will take someone like you to move back in time to identify > your Thomas as a son of one of the McMurray men. Are you familiar with the > Scot's "naming way"? It helped me a great deal when I traced my William to > his birth location on the Rolling fork. At that time, there were eight men > in Va., Ky. & Tenn. named William McMurray. I had to trace every one of > these men named William until I found my guy. > > Good hunting and let me know if I can help. > > Don > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Michelle McMurray de Luces [mailto:smcmurray@nc.rr.com] > Sent: Thursday, May 02, 2002 12:37 PM > To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [McMurry] McMurry family book > > > Hi Don, > > That is quite a story! Thank you for taking the time to help others with > your knowledge. > > I am wondering if the Thomas (brother of John)you mentioned is the Thomas I > am looking for. The only info I have is Thomas E. T.? McMurray having lived > in Kentucky or Illinois. He married a woman named "Mary." I have no date > of births for these folks. I know that my Thomas was probably born around > the late 1700's. Your Thomas may be too old to be the same guy. Tom & Mary > bore a son named Huston (Houston?)Gillespie McMurray around 1825. > > It makes me wonder how in the world I'm going to find out since no one kept > any records that are still with us. > > Michelle McMurray > > ______________________________ > > ______________________________