I have never been able to find more on Rutherford Co. Samuel McMurray's sons, James & Andrew. Andrew witnessed a couple of land transactions for his brother-in-law, Henry Callahan (my ancestor), in the late 1790's but there are no marriage records for either James or Andrew in Rutherford. I strongly suspect that they moved from Rutherford shortly after their father died cir 1803. Another Callahan researcher has speculated that the James and Andrew McMurray who married Callahan sisters in Oglethorpe Co. GA in 1800& 1799 respectively were the sons of Samuel, but I don't think so. [I suspect they were his nephews]. The GA James McMurry (note spelling) moved to Lauderdale Co. AL where he died. The GA Andrew McMurray apparently died in GA before 1820.

In your reseaech of old Samuel McMurray of Rutherford Co. NC have you found his son James? I also would like to know where Andrew, John, Samuel Jr. and the other one went. Thomas i beleive was the name. I am thinking that James droped the "Mc" because he got in trouble for "gameing" and from then after the family went by Murry then later generations added the "a". I would really appreciate anything aditional anyone could add abt. the whereabots of James the son who inherated his fathers waggon equally with his brother Andrew. My James Murry in Tennessee when he died in abt 1835 had a half of waggon in his list of property valued in his estate. Thanks, Carol

I have been reading the different McMurry lines and I am still trying to connect my Job McMurry with some of the others. He said he was born in Ky(dont know the county or town) Feb. 8,1821. I believe hewas married to an Elizabeth Frost who must have died somewhere before he came to Washington. He then married my grt-grt-grandmother Sarah Jane Lester born Nov. 9, 1842 I have found that my grt grandad was born in Nebraska Sept. 27, 1867. Sarah Jane died in Mossy Rock Wa in 1884. My grt Grandad was Robert Lester McMurry. I to have seen my line go from McMurray to McMurry dont if which was the mistake but my family always spelled it McMurry. I also saw that one of the McMurrys had Green in there name we had a Green McMurry wonder if there is some connection? Tami Moorcroft

Don, Samuel & Margaret are my ancestors. Probably went to Mecklenburg Co.NC/York Co.SC which later became Tryon Co. which later became Rutherford Co. NC Ben C.

With apologies for taking this discussion to far, I just want to say that even among silbings in families the name McMurray/McMurry is changed. In researching the Rutherford Co. NC McMurrays, most of whom were all from the same family line, one finds spellings of McMurray, McMurry and even a possible McCurry (Probably a different family). The various spellings occurred in Census records, bible records, legal documents, etc. and some are still present today, although most of the family members use McMurray. I have an interesting situation in that my Callahan ancestor married a McMurray in Rutherford Co. but his brothers who migrated to GA had children who married McMurrys. I believe they were all related somehow. My Callahans also have various inter-family spellings of Calahan, Callahan and Callihan, even to the point of claiming that the different spellings designate different families not related to each other. Now if anyone really wants to get this going what about Vanzant/Van Zandt/Vinzant/Van Sant/etc., etc. etc.

Thanks Ben, I've seen different theories on spelling of McMurry vs McMurray. Do you believe BY changed his name from McMurray to McMurry ? BY was a soldier during the Civil War and in a publication entitled , Roster of North Carolina Troops in the War Between the States, published in 1882 they refer to him as B Y McMurray. Many of the McMurrys including BY, are buried in Palm Tree Methodist Church Cemetery in Cleveland Co. The headstones are spelled McMurry. Do you know where the McMurry's (ay's ) settled before NC ? BY is my wifes gg grandfather on her mothers side. Her father is a Jenkins, that opens up another long long line to research. Bob BCalla6711@aol.com wrote: > Bob, > I have info on the family of BY McMurray. He was the son of John McMurray > and Peggy Smith. I have the 8 children you listed and some info on their > families. I am a descendant of Samuel & Margaret McMurray. Samuel was the > brother of BY's grandfather, William McMurray. I have been trying for a long > time to gather more info on the Rutherford/Cleveland Co. NC McMurrays and > would love to share info. You can reach me at bcalla6711@aol.com. > Ben Callahan > > ==== MCMURRY Mailing List ==== > Post your McMURRY, Pension Information at the following URL: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/m/c/MCMURRY/pensions

You have a potential double whammy. The Murrays are our parent family, originally Highlanders from the old Province of Moray (Murray). The y were booted out of the Highlands in 1160 and scattered all over Scotland. So your Murry could be Murray or more likely MacMurray or McMurray. One other little problem relates back to the enumerators who, at best were poorly schooled. For example, my great-grandfather, Elijah Stewart McMurray, was listed in the death records in California as "E M. C Murry." Not only was he no longer a McMurray, he had become a Murry thanks to the court clerk. Go figure! Regards, Don -----Original Message----- From: CRoy1238@aol.com [mailto:CRoy1238@aol.com] Sent: Friday, July 13, 2001 3:28 PM To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [McMurry] fw: a Barren Co, KY marriage Ok, which brother dropped the Mc, M' altogather and went by Murry, Murray? My line is James Murry found one time in early Tn records as James M'Murray or James M. Murry. He died 1835 Campbell Co. Tn. I beleive him to be son of Samuel McMurray of Rutherford Co, NC. Need proof or to disprove. Any help would be appreciated. Carol ______________________________

Also per Ben Callahan's info, chn/g'chn of Robert McM of Cabarrus Co., NC, son of Thos., m. Flemings. Wilda McMurry

Per Ben Callahan's info, the Samuel and Margaret you mention were his ancestors; they were in NC, Tryon Co., then Rutherford Co. They had twelve children. Ben has followup on first dau. Elizabeth, his ancestor, who m. a Callahan, and last 2 dau.'s Sarah and Jane, who m. the same Alexander Baldridge. He does not know f/u info on sons; one of them, inc. third son Samuel, could be father of this Samuel w/dau. Lucy b. 1813 who m. a Fleming. Of interest to me b/k my Samuel, in Barren Co. KY ca. 1830-1840, also not tied back to anyone, and would be of same age/time as this Samuel father of Lucy. Known sons of my Samuel were Thos. W. and John Green; possible dau. Isabelle. Where was Lucy & family when she m. a Fleming? Wilda McMurry

Ok, which brother dropped the Mc, M' altogather and went by Murry, Murray? My line is James Murry found one time in early Tn records as James M'Murray or James M. Murry. He died 1835 Campbell Co. Tn. I beleive him to be son of Samuel McMurray of Rutherford Co, NC. Need proof or to disprove. Any help would be appreciated. Carol

Yes, my ancestors and their descendants, from the 1600's until now, kept the McMurray spelling. In Ulster, I would be surprised if they even knew that their name was listed in the Down muster roll as M'Murray. As for your Samuel McMurry in Scott Co., Va., it's likely that he is a relative but I don't know how he is connected. It's important to keep in mind that Washington Co., Va. and Scott Co., Va. were passed through by all the men moving back and forth from Va. to N.C., Tenn. and Ky. It just happens that my McMurray relatives made this trek several times and would lay-over in Washington Co., Va. (right next to Scott Co.) on their trips into the back country. Thomas McMurray, my ancestor's brother was there in 1782 as was his brother, John McMurray. They apparently were visiting an aunt how had married and settled in Washington Co. Thomas was the first of the five brothers to settle in Ky., at Crab Orchard in Lincoln Co. Now, I do know of a Samuel McMurry who married Margaret McMurry (yes, same surname) in 1764. This marriage took place in Granville Co., N.C. and the bondsman was James McMurry. James is, I believe, the son of our patriarch, and the same James McMurray who in 1755 was a witness in a lawsuit "Rev. Robert McMurty vs. Wm. Murry (McMurry?) et al" in Augusta Co., Va. I have no idea where Samuel and Margaret went after their marriage so have no idea if he or his sons went in time to Scott Co., Va. but it's certainly worth looking into. Regards, Don -----Original Message----- From: FP4SALE@aol.com [mailto:FP4SALE@aol.com] Sent: Thursday, July 12, 2001 1:47 PM To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [McMurry] fw: a Barren Co, KY marriage So Don, Would your final spelling be McMurray then? <<All of my ancestor's brother's, either deliberately or inadvertently, allowed their McMurray name to become McMurry. I don't know why this occurred but it began to happen in the early 1800's while my ancestor and his brothers were in Kentucky (they arrived there from Va., one in 1782 and the other four McMurray men in 1789).>> I have been in touch with you before and I am still asking the same questions....Did these brothers have a brother named Samuel who they left behind by himself in Scott Co. VA and were their parents Samuel and Elizabeth? My Samuel was born in 1785 in Sullivan Co TN and married Jane Ramey in 1808. He died November 6 1858 and his death records showed his parents. I understand that this part of TN was once NC. Scott CO VA didn't come to be until about 1813...but my Samuel raised all of his children there. Still hoping to make some connedctions. Hope to find where Samuels parents came from and where his siblings went. Thanks, Lisa Stephenson In a message dated 7/12/01 11:46:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, don@norrishouse.com writes: > Hi, I can speak to the name question having studied the origin of the > Murray, MacMurray, McMurray and McMurry names. Our sept of the Murray > family originally was MacMurray. Over time, the enumerators were > responsible for modifying the name with, perhaps, a little help from some of > our family members. The first big change for the MacMurrays came in County > Down, Ulster where most of our large MacMurray families had settled when > they left Scotland in 1606. In Ulster the enumerators exclusively used > M'Murray, a shorthand version of MacMurray, to spell the name in the muster > rolls, first in County Down in 1638 and again in 1648 for all of Ulster. > This shorthand eventually resulted in the elimination of the "a" in the > "Mac" portion of our name and it became "Mc." Some will argue that the king > forced the name change to break up the clans but I think it was just lazy > enumerators. Now, even in those early days there were already some M'Murry > (i.e., MacMurry) men listed in the muster rolls. So you can argue that the > name McMurry was just another sept of the Murray family but I doubt that > this would be allowed by the parent family. > > The final change from McMurray to McMurry, at least for my family, occurred > in America. All of my ancestor's brother's, either deliberately or > inadvertently, allowed their McMurray name to become McMurry. I don't know > why this occurred but it began to happen in the early 1800's while my > ancestor and his brothers were in Kentucky (they arrived there from Va., one > in 1782 and the other four McMurray men in 1789). > > My ancestor and all of his descendants were the only members of our large > family that maintained and defended (to the death <G>) the spelling of our > McMurray name. One of our cousins deliberately changed his name back to > MacMurray. > > Regards, Don > > ______________________________

Don McMurray at don@norrishouse.com could give you several spelling on McMurray and many are of the same family. So both are correct in the way it was changed.

Our McMurray family is spelled with an a. I have only 3 listed: Samuel McMurray m Mary McIntire with one son: Samuel McMurray. No wife. One daughter: Lucy McMurray 1813/1849 married David J. Fleming 6 Children Mary Elizabeth Fleming m Andrew Jackson Keever my ggrandfather. Patience Keever Northern

So Don, Would your final spelling be McMurray then? <<All of my ancestor's brother's, either deliberately or inadvertently, allowed their McMurray name to become McMurry. I don't know why this occurred but it began to happen in the early 1800's while my ancestor and his brothers were in Kentucky (they arrived there from Va., one in 1782 and the other four McMurray men in 1789).>> I have been in touch with you before and I am still asking the same questions....Did these brothers have a brother named Samuel who they left behind by himself in Scott Co. VA and were their parents Samuel and Elizabeth? My Samuel was born in 1785 in Sullivan Co TN and married Jane Ramey in 1808. He died November 6 1858 and his death records showed his parents. I understand that this part of TN was once NC. Scott CO VA didn't come to be until about 1813...but my Samuel raised all of his children there. Still hoping to make some connedctions. Hope to find where Samuels parents came from and where his siblings went. Thanks, Lisa Stephenson In a message dated 7/12/01 11:46:00 AM Eastern Daylight Time, don@norrishouse.com writes: > Hi, I can speak to the name question having studied the origin of the > Murray, MacMurray, McMurray and McMurry names. Our sept of the Murray > family originally was MacMurray. Over time, the enumerators were > responsible for modifying the name with, perhaps, a little help from some of > our family members. The first big change for the MacMurrays came in County > Down, Ulster where most of our large MacMurray families had settled when > they left Scotland in 1606. In Ulster the enumerators exclusively used > M'Murray, a shorthand version of MacMurray, to spell the name in the muster > rolls, first in County Down in 1638 and again in 1648 for all of Ulster. > This shorthand eventually resulted in the elimination of the "a" in the > "Mac" portion of our name and it became "Mc." Some will argue that the king > forced the name change to break up the clans but I think it was just lazy > enumerators. Now, even in those early days there were already some M'Murry > (i.e., MacMurry) men listed in the muster rolls. So you can argue that the > name McMurry was just another sept of the Murray family but I doubt that > this would be allowed by the parent family. > > The final change from McMurray to McMurry, at least for my family, occurred > in America. All of my ancestor's brother's, either deliberately or > inadvertently, allowed their McMurray name to become McMurry. I don't know > why this occurred but it began to happen in the early 1800's while my > ancestor and his brothers were in Kentucky (they arrived there from Va., one > in 1782 and the other four McMurray men in 1789). > > My ancestor and all of his descendants were the only members of our large > family that maintained and defended (to the death <G>) the spelling of our > McMurray name. One of our cousins deliberately changed his name back to > MacMurray. > > Regards, Don > >

> > Sherman X Watkins > (his mark) > Now THAT'S funny!!! You've been reading too many Wills and deeds, Sherman!

Sarah has a point, the given names were far more important than the surname. Surnames didn't come into vogue until fairly late in the game. Don -----Original Message----- From: Sarah Barker [mailto:Sarahbarker@sprintmail.com] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 6:09 PM To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [McMurry] fw: a Barren Co, KY marriage Golly gee - as a McMurry born and bred, I consider THAT spelling to be the standard! The reality is that the folks back then didn't put as much emphasis on consistent spelling as we do today. They spelled their names however the spirit moved them at the moment - provided they were literate, of course. If they weren't literate, then it was up to whoever was doing the spelling for them. All of which, naturally, is part of what makes genealogy such a great game. FP4SALE@aol.com wrote: > > In the early years the spelling of mine were McMurry, in later years the > spelling was changed to McMurray. Maybe the census takers couldn't spell. I > consider the McMurray the standard way now. > > Just my opinion > Lisa > > ==== MCMURRY Mailing List ==== > Also post your McMURRY Queries at the following URL: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/m/c/MCMURRY/queries ______________________________

Hi, I can speak to the name question having studied the origin of the Murray, MacMurray, McMurray and McMurry names. Our sept of the Murray family originally was MacMurray. Over time, the enumerators were responsible for modifying the name with, perhaps, a little help from some of our family members. The first big change for the MacMurrays came in County Down, Ulster where most of our large MacMurray families had settled when they left Scotland in 1606. In Ulster the enumerators exclusively used M'Murray, a shorthand version of MacMurray, to spell the name in the muster rolls, first in County Down in 1638 and again in 1648 for all of Ulster. This shorthand eventually resulted in the elimination of the "a" in the "Mac" portion of our name and it became "Mc." Some will argue that the king forced the name change to break up the clans but I think it was just lazy enumerators. Now, even in those early days there were already some M'Murry (i.e., MacMurry) men listed in the muster rolls. So you can argue that the name McMurry was just another sept of the Murray family but I doubt that this would be allowed by the parent family. The final change from McMurray to McMurry, at least for my family, occurred in America. All of my ancestor's brother's, either deliberately or inadvertently, allowed their McMurray name to become McMurry. I don't know why this occurred but it began to happen in the early 1800's while my ancestor and his brothers were in Kentucky (they arrived there from Va., one in 1782 and the other four McMurray men in 1789). My ancestor and all of his descendants were the only members of our large family that maintained and defended (to the death <G>) the spelling of our McMurray name. One of our cousins deliberately changed his name back to MacMurray. Regards, Don Shannon, Pam & Don McMurray The Norris House Inn & Stone House Tea Room (www.norrishouse.com) Thomas Birkby House - A Meeting Place (www.birkbyhouse.com) 108-9 Loudoun St., SW, Leesburg, VA 20175 Tel. NHI: 703.777.1806 E-mail: don@norrishouse.com Tel. TBH: 703.779.2933 E-mail: info@birkbyhouse.com Fax: 703.771.8051 -----Original Message----- From: McMurry [mailto:eagle4@airmail.net] Sent: Wednesday, July 11, 2001 5:47 PM To: MCMURRY-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [McMurry] fw: a Barren Co, KY marriage What do we know about the McMurry spelling? McMurray vs McMurry. Donna ______________________________

While mine most commonly spelled it McMurray, I learned not to take spelling too seriously when I found an ancestral marriage license with the bride's name spelled 3 different ways on the same page. Sherman X Watkins (his mark) >Well, mine EMPHATICALLY knew

Thanks Lisa. I know our name is spelled McMurry and it would be easier if it was McMurray because that is how everyone wants to spell it. FP4SALE@aol.com wrote: > In the early years the spelling of mine were McMurry, in later years the > spelling was changed to McMurray. Maybe the census takers couldn't spell. I > consider the McMurray the standard way now. > > Just my opinion > Lisa > > ==== MCMURRY Mailing List ==== > Also post your McMURRY Queries at the following URL: > http://cgi.rootsweb.com/~genbbs/genbbs.cgi/surnames/m/c/MCMURRY/queries

Well, mine EMPHATICALLY knew that it was spelled w/OUT an "A," and anyone who spelled it WITH an "A" was NOT related to us. As mine couldn't read and write for a couple of generations b/4 my father, by the census, I'm not sure what it means. But, as we certainly belonged to Scots-Irish clans which could hold a grudge for at least a millenium, I've come to believe it quite possibly represented a long-ago feud w/some other branch of the family, to whom we most emphatically were not going to be considered related. Just my opinion. Wilda McMurry