Many thanks to all the kind people who responded to my query. I have now found Fred was born in Derby not Duffield, his father was Edwin and not Edward and there are two new great aunts I'd never heard of. So much for family stories! Now I can send for some certificates and start moving along the line. I did have a problem finding McLoughlins in the 1881 census in Family search. I couldn't find any! Does anyone know what I might have done wrong there? Pam _________________________________________________________________ Find a cheaper internet access deal - choose one to suit you. http://www.msn.co.uk/internetaccess