This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: ksaxe Surnames: McConnell, McConnel, MacConnell Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.mcconnell/2470/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Another testing option and a database with McConnells and other Clan Donalds I recently learned more about an option for free DNA testing. This testing is offered by the Sorenson Molecular Genealogy Foundation (SMGF), and most genealogists would qualify to participate. This option has been around for a while, but there has been a lot of confusion about it among genealogists who might otherwise have participated, and many genealogists have probably never even heard of Sorenson. Some of the confusion concerns the requirements for participation. In order to participate, an individual must submit a four generation chart showing their personal ancestry. The chart may have some blanks, as long as it includes all information known to the submitter, but it MUST include information on some individuals born before 1900. The information on the chart becomes a part of the Sorenson database and remains in the database unless and until a participant decides to leave the study. This is a public database posted on the internet, so the information on individuals born after 1899 will not be posted. Second, SMGF does not report results directly to participants, but participants and other interested individuals can extract them from the database. This usually takes some guesswork, but it is not extremely difficult. Smart people have thought about the number of possible sets of test results and concluded that the process would be so time-consuming that it wouldn't be practical, but because any correct guesses for individual markers are reported as matches for those markers, it is possible to deduce the values for the different markers individually. I recently extracted the test results for the two McConnell men in the Sorenson database, and this probably took me more than two hours because I was inexperienced. By thinking through the process, I learned some things that would make it much easier for me to do the same thing again. If you are interested in using the Sorenson database or just like puzzles, look for my follow-up post. What tests are performed by SMGF has also not always been clear to many of us. Until recently, I thought that Sorenson was only testing Y-DNA for 12 markers, because that is what another genealogist told me. SMGF uses all of the Relative Genetics (RG) markers, because SMGF and Relative Genetics are both connected with Sorenson Genomics, the lab owned by SMGF founder James Sorenson. Currently, the SMGF web site says that SMGF is working to increase the number of tested markers for Sorenson participants to 34 or more. This is good news, because Sorenson counts some multiple site markers such as 464a, 464b, 464c, and 464d as one marker. This reduces the set of 43 Relative Genetics markers to 37 SMGF markers, so SMGF participants will have results for almost all of the 43 Relative Genetics markers when this work is completed. Sorenson tends to process SMGF samples in batches testing a limited number of markers at a time, and posts results as they become available. Sometimes the time between updates of the database adding results for additional markers for an individual is quite long. So some men's results have probably been posted for 12 markers and further results weren't posted for a long time. Since the Sorenson web site doesn't say very much about what markers are tested, many people may have concluded that their Sorenson testing was complete before it really was, and this has caused some confusion. Even if an individual noticed that other men in the database had test results for more markers than they had for themselves, they might have assumed that those men had paid for more markers to be tested by Relative Genetics. Relative Genetics previously offered coupons for reduced price reporting of results directly to SMGF participants, and this contributed to the confusion. SMGF testing is not confined to the Y-chromosome used by the Clan Donald DNA study. Men and women may both test through SMGF, which tests mitochondrial and autosomal DNA for all participants and Y-DNA for men. Sorenson's mitochondrial DNA database is quite large, and anyone with mitochondrial DNA results will want to use it. Test results for autosomal DNA, which is DNA on chromosomes other than the X and Y, will be entered into an upcoming Sorenson database. One big advantage of the use of free testing by Sorenson is that it allows genealogists to contemplate testing for ourselves and many more relatives from our brick wall families than most of us could afford to have tested at our own expense. Are there disadvantages to this free testing? Yes, of course. Results generally take at least nine months to be posted on the existing databases. Often no results are posted for at least a year, and complete results may not be posted for two years or more. If you're considering testing for yourself or a family member who is patient and healthy, this may not be a great concern. If you're trying to find out how you are related to a large number of families of the same surname or geographic origin, this option may help you recruit members of those families to test, but the discovery of any DNA matches which might lead to further testing will not come before results are posted. Since some lines "daughter out" or die out, leaving nobody to test, there will probably be a few cases where DNA results and other research lead to interest in the DNA of men who might have participated, but died during the wait for results. For project administrators, inputting data from other companies may not allow them to cut and paste the results into the project tables, which is what they are usually able to do with results from FTDNA. This is not a big drawback, but since Sorenson results often come in big batches, there may be some slight delays in posting results to the project tables if a number of men are added from the Sorenson database at the same time. In a few cases, it may be possible for project administrators to extract some results, but individuals opting to join projects using Sorenson results should try to extract results for themselves or with the help of other contacts if at all possible. (Exception: Administrators of some projects may be willing and able to help you with this process, but you should not count on this until you have checked with them.) I would be willing to help McConnells, McConnels, MacConnells, and as many others interested in joining the Clan Donald project as I ha! ve time to help with this process, but would hope that all individuals would see how far they can get with the extraction before seeking assistance. As noted previously the set of markers used by Sorenson and Relative Genetics is not identical to the standard set used by FTDNA, so some markers from the two sets cannot be compared. There is a lot of overlap between the two sets of markers, and in many cases, the common markers will be enough to answer genealogists' questions. When more information is needed, FTDNA customers have the option of testing for the missing Sorenson/RG markers through FTDNA's advanced orders at a reasonable cost or by testing through SMGF or RG, and men with Sorenson and RG test results have the option of testing with FTDNA to get results for FTDNA markers not in the Sorenson set. Unfortunately, the testing options that FTDNA and RG offer for those with results from their competitors are nearly as expensive as their standard tests. In some cases, the use of SMGF markers would answer questions that FTDNA's standard tests alone won't, and participation of men tested with SMGF will be a real boon! if it leads men who originally tested with FTDNA and would benefit from using the Sorenson markers to discover them. Some individuals may not wish to share their pedigree charts for any number of reasons that I think most of us already know, while others will find it advantageous to have their DNA results and pedigree charts together online. I recently saw a post to the Rootsweb DNA genealogy list from a person who was anxious to have their pedigree and DNA results posted together in the SMGF database because other researchers claiming common ancestry had results that didn't match. This researcher was sure that the others had made mistakes and wanted later researchers to be able to see good data along with the bad, giving them a better chance of successfully tracking their lines. One other possible area of concern is easily addressed prior to the submission of the pedigree chart and sample to SMGF. For you and your surname project administrators to use your results with confidence, you must be able to identify them in the Sorenson database. In many cases, this won't be a problem, because you'll probably be the only person with an identical pedigree chart in the database. However, if your brother also joins the Sorenson study, you will need to be able to distinguish between his results and yours. If your father's brother married one of your mother's sisters and you have a male cousin from this line testing, then your posted pedigrees should be identical unless one of your parents or his parents was born early enough for their first name to be included in the database, and you will also have to do something to distinguish your entries in the Sorenson database. It is unlikely, but possible, that your posted pedigree in the database would match that o! f a total stranger. If you have some uncommon surnames among grandparents and great-grandparents born before 1900 in small towns, you probably don't need to worry about this. But if your only great grandparents born before 1900 were a John Smith and Mary Jones who were born in NY, you should take some precautions to make your Sorenson pedigree identifiable. How would you make your Sorenson pedigree identifiable? Since your 4 generation chart is supposed to be as complete as possible, it should have the same information on your recent common ancestors as the charts of any relatives who participate in the study, unless you have new or conflicting information about your ancestry. However, Sorenson allows and encourages the submission of information on the ancestry of the great grandparents of participants, and includes this information in the database. By randomly selecting some, but not all of these ancestors to include in your submitted information, you should be able to make your Sorenson pedigree distinguishable from the rest. Just record carefully the information you submit so that you may refer to it later. It may be possible for those who have previously submitted their information to SMGF and want to make it distinguishable to do so by submitting additional data, but I have not researched this possibility. Testing through SMGF is a viable way to join the Clan Donald DNA project, just as testing with for-profit companies is. Researchers interested in testing will need to weigh the advantages and disadvantages of each of these options, taking into account the information they have about their own situations. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.