This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Author: ksaxe Surnames: McConnell, MacConnell, McDaniel, McDonald, MacDonald Classification: queries Message Board URL: http://boards.rootsweb.com/surnames.mcconnell/2471.1/mb.ashx Message Board Post: Sorenson Solution Here is how I would figure out the Sorenson test results for the two McConnell men in the Sorenson database, given the hints included in the last post. First, I went to the Sorenson Y-DNA search page and searched for McConnell men using the FTDNA lab standard and the Sorenson default values just as I suggested. This gave me a screen showing which of the two men's test results matched the default values. Then I printed out the search results and went to the Clan Donald project results tables. On the results screen, there is a little icon for a pedigree chart. If you click on it and check his pedigree, you will see that Sorenson McConnell #1's McConnell line has South Carolina roots, so I'll refer to him as the SC McConnell or SC from here on out. I scrolled down to the I1c Red table, and started to compare the matching values for the SC McConnell. He has a 13 on the first marker, and the modal for the chart is 15, so it doesn't seem likely that the SC McConnell is in that group. The next matching value for SC is on one of the 385 markers, which I said were confusing, so I would expect a beginner to ignore that match. The next matches with default values are on markers 426, 388, 439, and 389-1 where he has the values 12, 12, 12, and 13, respectively. The I1c Red modal values are 11, 13, 11, and 13. Only 1 match out of these 4 convinces us that we need to look at another table. The next table with McConnells is the R1a Red table. The SC McConnell and the modal match at the first marker, DYS 393, but the values at 426, 388, 439, and 389-1 on this table are 12, 12, 10, and 14. 2 matches out of these 4 mean it's time to try another table. The third table with McConnells is the R1b Red table. Again the value at DYS 393 matches, and in this case the values at 426, 388, 439, and 389-1 match, too. The next value where the SC McConnell matches the Sorenson default value is DYS 389-2, where he has a 29. This does not match the R1b Red modal. If you look at the next several markers, you'll see that SC matched the default values of 17, 9, 10, 11, 11, 25, and 15, while the R1b Red modals for those markers are 18, 9, 10, 11, 11, 25, and 15. This seems like a pretty good match so far, but I am emphasizing the values that we know because they match the defaults. If you also look at the mismatches for clues you will notice some places (390, 19/394, 392, and others) where the default values and R1b Red modals match and SC mismatches both of them. So it makes sense to look at the R1b Green table. The R1b Green modals match SC and the default values at 393, 426, 388, 439, 389-1, 389-2, 458, 459 a and b, 455, 454, 447, and 437. There is a mismatch at the third marker, 394/19. It makes sense to check the R1b Yellow table, too. We don't know SC's value at the second marker, 390, but we can see that he mismatches the R1b Yellow modal of 24 since it is the same as the default value and there is no match. The R1b Green and Yellow modals are very similar, and it helps to look at the markers where SC mismatches the Sorenson default values and compare both modals to guess which chart SC would be on if he were to join the project. You might also just plug in the modals for both charts and see which work best. Using the first approach, you would see that the R1b Green modal at the second marker (390) is 25 and the R1b Yellow modal there is 24, with SC mismatching the default value and R1b Yellow modal of 24. The Green and Yellow modals also mismatch at 385b, which is a confusing marker. It does turn out that SC matches the Green modal at this marker, too. The Green and Yellow modals also mismatch at 392, where he mismatches the default value and Yellow modal of 13. So if you go through this comparison, ! you would try the Green modals first. If you input the Green modal values that you find on the tables and leave the markers that you can't find modals for at the default values, you will have just five mismatches left. If you input the Yellow modal values, you will have ten mismatches. You could spend a little while looking for modal values for some of the markers that aren't in FTDNA's 37 marker set, because the Clan Donald project tables do include values for many of them scattered on the right hand side OR you could just concentrate on the first 30 FTDNA markers. It turns out that the Green modal values for the additional markers match the Sorenson default values anyway. Looking at the first 30 FTDNA markers, you would still find that the Green modal is the best match . The mismatches are at 394/19, 464b, 460, and 456. There is another mismatch at marker 461, which is not a standard FTDNA marker. In each case, SC is just one off the modal value, so it is very easy to find these values by following the hint! to check values one above or one below the modal first. The only slightly tricky one is 464b. If you take the hint to try guessing the same number at 464a, 464b, 464c, and 464d and you start to try the modal values of 15, 16, and 17, you will find that the value of 15 appears twice, not once as it does in the modals. You might at that point realize that SC's values are 15, 15, 16, and 17, or you might conclude that after trying the values of 16 and 17 and finding that each occurs just once. The values that don't match the Green modal are 13 at 394/19, 15 at 464b, 12 at 460, 18 at 456, and 13 at 461. So SC's haplotype for the first 30 markers as reported by FTDNA, the Clan Donald tables, and the Sorenson database search results (Sorenson database searched using FTDNA lab standard and reading values a column at a time, left to right) is: 13-25-13-11-11-13-12-12-12-13-14-29- 17-9-10-11-11-25-15-18-30-15-15-16-17-12-11-19-23-18 The order used by FTNDA and the Clan Donald project tables is different from the order used in the Sorenson database. The next two markers in the Sorenson results are 442 (FTDNA #36) and 438 (FTDNA #37), where SC has a 12 for both values. Next are a series of Sorenson markers where his values are 12, 13, 13 (this one is 461, where SC mismatches the modal), 11, 13, 23, 10, 13, 12, 30, and 24. So the SC McConnell matches the Niall modal haplotype just as Keith McConnell does. It was interesting to compare their results. Of the 32 markers for which both men have results, 28 match. This suggests a common ancestor about 20 generations ago, (calculated using Doug McDonald's TMRCA Calculator) around the time surnames were adopted in many areas. It turns out that choosing the proper table for the second Sorenson McConnell is easier because he matches so many of the first 12 markers. It's easy to see that his is not a close match for the I1c Red or R1a Red groups. He is a very good match for the R1b Red group and a good match for the R1b Green and Yellow groups, which is not surprising because these groups are pretty close. If you look at his mismatch with the default value at 389-2, you see that the default value matches the Green and Yellow groups and mismatches the R1b Red modal, which supports the idea that he belongs to the R1b Red group. Using the R1b Red modal values from the table (and the Sorenson default value for the one Sorenson marker that you can't find a value for), you will find just 5 mismatches, at markers 385 (maybe 385a, maybe 385b), 437, 464 (may be a, b, c, or d), 446, and 635. The values for 437, 446, and 635 are all relatively easy to find because they are single location markers and his va! lues are one off from the input values. I say input values instead of modal values here, because there is no modal value on the table for 635, which is a Sorenson marker. There are a number of ways that you could go to find the results for the remaining markers. If you followed the hint to look at the values for other McConnells and MacConnells in the chart, you would find the value for 385a is 12, not the modal value of 11, rather quickly. This method would also help you zero in on the value of 16 at 437 rather quickly, if you didn't already know that value. If you try guessing the values 15 and 17 at 464 a, b, c, and d, you will see clearly that this man is a 15 at one of these locations and a 17 at two of them. If you made the best guess of 16 for the 4th location, you would see that he is a 16 at one location, making his sequence of values at 464 15, 16, 17, 17. If you decided at any point to try the values for F. G. MacConnell on the R1b Red chart, you would find that ! this man is a perfect match and you wouldn't have to do any more guess ing at all! The first 30 values for the second man (whose McConnell line has roots in NY) are: 13-24-14-10-12-14-12-12-12-13-13-30- 18-9-10-11-11-25-16-19-30-15-16-17-17-11-12-19-24-16 The next two markers as reported by Sorenson when using the FTDNA lab standard (FTDNA markers 36 and 37) are 12-12. The remaining markers in the order given by Sorenson have the values 11, 12, 11, 11, 13, 24, 10, 13, 12, 30, and 24. So the NY McConnell is another descendant of the royal house of the ancient kingdom of Dalriada. He, his perfect match F. G. MacConnell, their very close match J. MacConnell, and the two McConnells on the chart form a nice, tight subgroup within the R1b Red group. I have even wondered if this McConnell and F. G. MacConnell are one and the same person. There are 10 men named McDonald or MacDonald in the Sorenson database, 2 named McDaniel, and some others with MacDonald variant surnames. It would be interesting to see how their results compare to those of men in the Clan Donald DNA project. Possibly some of them are already members, but it might be nice to try to make contact with some of these men and suggest that they join if they are not already in the project. If you have test results and find that any of these men are close matches, you might want to attempt to make contact using clues in their pedigree files and online resources. Important Note: The author of this message may not be subscribed to this list. If you would like to reply to them, please click on the Message Board URL link above and respond on the board.