There was a problem at Rootsweb earlier today, and mail sent during approximately the last 12 hours has been lost. If you posted during the last 12 hours, and your post has not come through on the list, please resend. Valorie

I have Caswell McBee b. 1802 and married to Mary (Polly) A Peck as the brother of Isaac McBee b. 1801 and married to Sarah Elizabeth Grubb. What I'm really interested in is info on Burton McBee. I'm descended from his daughter Mary Ann McBee. I'd be very interested in corresponding with any other researcher. Most of his children seem to have just dropped off the face of the earth! Here's what I have on Burton as his children: Burton McBee (son of Caswell McBee and Mary (Polly) A. Peck) b. ca 1824 in TN, d. before 1900 in TN, m1 3 Jan 1849 Claiborne Co., TN to Mary A. Burk (daughter of David Burk and Mary A. Dinkins -- her parentage not yet proven). Mary was born ca 1824 in TN and died ca March 1866 in Powell Station, TN (death info from her daughter Ava.) Burton married for a second time 21 Feb 1869 in Union Co., TN to Mary C. Koontz. Burton and Mary's children are: 1. William Winfield Scott McBee b. ca 1848 Claiborne Co., TN 2. Ava Elizabeth McBee b. ca 1850 Walker's Ford, Claiborne Co., TN, d. 13 December 1899 Lebanon, Linn Co., OR, m. 27 Nov 1870 TN to Pharoah Lindsay Wallace. 3. James M. McBee b. ca 1852 Claiborne Co., TN 4. David Lenard McBee b. ca 1854 TN, d. in TX, m. ca 1885 to Louanna Jones (David McBee listed on census; Ava does not list a brother David, but does mention borther Lenard who went to TX; according to info received the Lenard McBee in TX would be the same age as David McBee in the census; this one is a puzzle). 5. Sarah McBee b. ca 1855, m1. John Wilkerson, m2. 10 March 1881 to John Coppock. 6. Elmira McBee b. ca 1856 in TN 7. Mary Ann McBee b. 10 Sept 1857 TN, d. 22 Dec 1829 Knox Co., TN and buried in Hill Cemetery, m. 22 Oct 1873 in TN to William Albert Mitchell. 8. Richard McBee b. after 1860 TN 9. Margaret McBee b. after 1860 TN 10. Minerva McBee b. after 1860 TN. A lot of the family information listed above was handed down from Ava Elizabeth. Some of it has been confirmed, but her last three siblings are not found in the 1860 census and by 1870 would have been living with other relatives. According to Ava Elizabeth, Burton McBee abandonded the family after the death of his first wife and all of his children were sent to live with relatives. Which relatives is the mystery, especially for the last three children who would have been the youngest. So far I've only found David McBee living with David Burk. Where did the missing children lived as adults is the other mystery. If anyone else is researching this line or any names that might be related to Burton McBee and Mary Ann Burk and their children, I'd love to correspond with you. Sheila Rodrigue

Hi LuAnn: The 1880 census cds show Andrew Perry living next door to Mary McBee. Can you please tell us more about your family? I cannot identify your Gaynum Cox McBee. More dates and places would help me identify him and Robert, William and Israel. Did they all live in Union Co, TN? 1880 Census Place: District 11, Union, Tennessee Source: FHL Film 1255283 National Archives Film T9-1283 Page 224A Relation Sex Marr Race Age Birthplace Mary MC BEE Self F W W 47 TN Occ: Keeping House Fa: TN Mo: TN Sarah E. MC BEE Dau F S W 16 TN Fa: TN Mo: TN Ganam C. MC BEE Son M S W 14 TN Occ: Works On Farm Fa: TN Mo: TN John E. MC BEE Son M S W 5 TN Fa: TN Mo: TN 1880 Census Place: District 11, Union, Tennessee Source: FHL Film 1255283 National Archives Film T9-1283 Page 224A Relation Sex Marr Race Age Birthplace Andrew PERRY Self M M W 30 TN Occ: Working On Farm Fa: TN Mo: TN Mary J. PERRY Wife F M W 22 TN Occ: Keeping House Fa: TN Mo: TN Mathy E. PERRY Dau F S W 4 TN Fa: TN Mo: TN Henry M. PERRY Son M S W 1 TN Fa: TN Mo: TN Gwen Boyer Bjorkman gwenbj@seanet.com -----Original Message----- From: LuAnn Kline [mailto:kluann@juno.com] Sent: Friday, November 16, 2001 12:02 AM To: gwenbj@seanet.com Source: MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [McBEE] Perry connections around Union Co. TN? I have heard stories that My great grandfather, John Esco Mcbee, was not a Mcbee by blood, but that his father was a Perry--John or Andrew. this man was living with Mary Woods Mcbee on the 1880 Union County TN Census, where John Esco was 5 yrs old. I have never found a death date for her husband, Gaynum Cox Mcbee,(spelling from the 1832 bible of Mary Wood Mcbee in my possesion) probably son of Robert or William McBee ( most likely William) who were sons of Israel Mcbee. anyone who has any family connections, I would like to hear what you think. I have been told that in WWII a man with the last name of Perry showed up at Grampa Mac's door claiming to be a brother, but he was turned away. I know that his deathcertificate names Gamon Mcbee as his father, but wondered if anyone had ever heard a similar story from the other side? cya LuAnn kluann@juno.com

I have heard stories that My great grandfather, John Esco Mcbee, was not a Mcbee by blood, but that his father was a Perry--John or Andrew. this man was living with Mary Woods Mcbee on the 1880 Union County TN Census, where John Esco was 5 yrs old. I have never found a death date for her husband, Gaynum Cox Mcbee,(spelling from the 1832 bible of Mary Wood Mcbee in my possesion) probably son of Robert or William McBee ( most likely William) who were sons of Israel Mcbee. anyone who has any family connections, I would like to hear what you think. I have been told that in WWII a man with the last name of Perry showed up at Grampa Mac's door claiming to be a brother, but he was turned away. I know that his deathcertificate names Gamon Mcbee as his father, but wondered if anyone had ever heard a similar story from the other side? cya LuAnn kluann@juno.com

Hi Elnora Can you help? Just thought sence you have the WYRICK surname I'd try: Amanda Wyrick Hugh Sutton - 5646. Son of George Washington Sutton - 5642 & Martha England - 5641. Born 1856 in Claiborne Co., TN. Died 1893. He married Amanda Wyrick - 5654. They had the following children: 2 i. Charley Sutton - 5655 3 ii. Mary Sutton - 5656 4 iii. Sarah Sutton - 5657 5 iv. Nancy Sutton - 5658 Nelda _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

THis is how I put this info together. Nelda Register Report - 15 Nov 2001 ———————————————————————————————————————— First Generation ———————————————————————————————————————— 1. Samuel McBee - 7524. Born 1772. He married Anney Hamilton - 7525. They had the following children: 2 i. William McBee - 7526 3 ii. Isaac McBee - 5512 4 iii. Caswell McBee - 7529 5 iv. Pleasent McBee - 7531 6 v. Samuel McBee - 7533 7 vi. Labourne Labon McBee - 7535 8 vii. John McBee - 7537 9 viii. Calvin McBee - 7539 Second Generation ———————————————————————————————————————— 2. William McBee - 7526. Son of Samuel McBee - 7524 & Anney Hamilton - 7525. Born 21 Jul 1798. He first married Ann Williams - 7527. He second married Barbara Vanbibber - 7528. 3. Isaac McBee - 5512. Son of Samuel McBee - 7524 & Anney Hamilton - 7525. Born 1801. He married Elizabeth Grubb - 5461. They had the following children: 10 i. Prior Lee McBee - 4019 4. Caswell McBee - 7529. Son of Samuel McBee - 7524 & Anney Hamilton - 7525. Born 1802. He married Mary A. Peck - 7530. 5. Pleasent McBee - 7531. Son of Samuel McBee - 7524 & Anney Hamilton - 7525. Born 1810. He married Nancy Kelly - 7532. 6. Samuel McBee - 7533. Son of Samuel McBee - 7524 & Anney Hamilton - 7525. Born 1811. He married Mary Hodges - 7534. 7. Labourne Labon McBee - 7535. Son of Samuel McBee - 7524 & Anney Hamilton - 7525. Born 1813. He married Susannah Hodges - 7536. 8. John McBee - 7537. Son of Samuel McBee - 7524 & Anney Hamilton - 7525. Born 1818. He married Louisa Hurst - 7538. 9. Calvin McBee - 7539. Son of Samuel McBee - 7524 & Anney Hamilton - 7525. Born 1821. He married Emaline McBee - 7540. Third Generation ———————————————————————————————————————— 10. Prior Lee McBee - 4019. Son of Isaac McBee - 5512 & Elizabeth Grubb - 5461. Born 26 Sep 1844 in TN. Died 9 Aug 1884. Buried in Phelps Cemetery, Claiborne Co., TN. Occupation CW- Co. F. 22 Indiana Reg. He married Katherine Sophronia K. Meyers - 2998, daughter of Vincent (#1) Meyers - 3308 & Jane Phelps - 3309, 15 Dec 1867 in New Tazewell, Claiborne Co., TN. Born 21 May 1848 in New Tazewell, Claiborne Co., TN. Died 27 Nov 1924 in New Tazewell, Claiborne Co., TN. Buried 30 Nov 1924 in Phelps Cem., Claiborne Co., TN. They had the following children: 11 i. Vincent Divine McBee - 5462 12 ii. Isham Lee McBee - 5506 13 iii. Elizabeth Jane McBee - 5507 14 iv. Sarah Lucinda McBee - 5508 15 v. Ballard McGinnis McBee - 5511 16 vi. Christopher Columbus McBee - 5513 17 vii. William Ausby McBee - 5514 18 viii. James Arthur McBee - 5516 Fourth Generation ———————————————————————————————————————— 11. Vincent Divine McBee - 5462. Son of Prior Lee McBee - 4019 & Katherine Sophronia K. Meyers - 2998. Born 8 Nov 1868 in Claiborne Co., TN. Died 29 Jan 1947 in Claiborne Co., TN. He married Martha Ann Mink - 5463, 8 Sep 1889 in New Tazewell, Claiborne Co., TN. Born 10 Feb 1886 in Claiborne Co., TN. Died 27 Aug 1937. Buried in Thompson Chapel Cem., Claiborne Co., TN. 12. Isham Lee McBee - 5506. Son of Prior Lee McBee - 4019 & Katherine Sophronia K. Meyers - 2998. Born 15 Nov 1870 in Claiborne Co., TN. Died 6 Dec 1873 in Claiborne Co., TN. 13. Elizabeth Jane McBee - 5507. Daughter of Prior Lee McBee - 4019 & Katherine Sophronia K. Meyers - 2998. Born 5 Nov 1871 in Claiborne Co., TN. Died 10 Feb 1872 in Claiborne Co., TN. Buried in Phelps Cem. Claiborne Co., TN. 14. Sarah Lucinda McBee - 5508. Daughter of Prior Lee McBee - 4019 & Katherine Sophronia K. Meyers - 2998. Born 9 Feb 1873 in Claiborne Co., TN. Died 1946 in Claiborne Co., TN. She married William F. (Jr.) Brewster - 5460, son of William F. (Sr.) Brewster - 5509 & Sarah Sallie R. Cadle - 5510, 21 Dec 1893 in New Tazewell, Claiborne Co., TN. Born 1863. Died 1941. Buried in Brewster Cemetery, New Tazewell, Claiborne Co., TN. 15. Ballard McGinnis McBee - 5511. Son of Prior Lee McBee - 4019 & Katherine Sophronia K. Meyers - 2998. Born 15 Apr 1875 in Claiborne Co., TN. Died in Walter Reed Hospital. 16. Christopher Columbus McBee - 5513. Son of Prior Lee McBee - 4019 & Katherine Sophronia K. Meyers - 2998. Born 8 Apr 1877 in New Tazewell, Claiborne Co., TN. Died 18 Jul 1878 in New Tazewell Claiborne Co., TN. 17. William Ausby McBee - 5514. Son of Prior Lee McBee - 4019 & Katherine Sophronia K. Meyers - 2998. Born 20 Jul 1879 in New Tazewell TN. Died 21 Mar 1944 in Claiborne Co., TN. Buried in Lynhurst Cem. Knox Co., TN. He married Sally Hollingsworth - 5515, 1903 in Tenn. 18. James Arthur McBee - 5516. Son of Prior Lee McBee - 4019 & Katherine Sophronia K. Meyers - 2998. Born 15 May 1881 in New Tazewell, Claiborne Co., TN. Died 24 Aug 1955 in Powell, Knox Co., TN. Buried in Lynhurst Cem., Knox Co., TN. He first married Ida Martha Jane Jones - 5517, 4 Oct 1907 in New Tazewell, Claiborne Co., TN. They were divorced. He second married Amy C. Cadle - 6414, daughter of Alfred G. Cadle Reverand - 6415 & Sarah Jane Lucinda Taylor - 6416. Index ———————————————————————————————————————— Brewster, William F. (Jr.) - 5460, spouse of 14 Cadle, Amy C. - 6414, spouse of 18 Grubb, Elizabeth - 5461, spouse of 3 Hamilton, Anney - 7525, spouse of 1 Hodges, Mary - 7534, spouse of 6 Hodges, Susannah - 7536, spouse of 7 Hollingsworth, Sally - 5515, spouse of 17 Hurst, Louisa - 7538, spouse of 8 Jones, Ida Martha Jane - 5517, spouse of 18 Kelly, Nancy - 7532, spouse of 5 McBee, Ballard McGinnis - 5511 15 McBee, Calvin - 7539 9 McBee, Caswell - 7529 4 McBee, Christopher Columbus - 5513 16 McBee, Elizabeth Jane - 5507 13 McBee, Emaline - 7540, spouse of 9 McBee, Isaac - 5512 3 McBee, Isham Lee - 5506 12 McBee, James Arthur - 5516 18 McBee, John - 7537 8 McBee, Labourne Labon - 7535 7 McBee, Pleasent - 7531 5 McBee, Prior Lee - 4019 10 McBee, Samuel - 7524 1 McBee, Samuel - 7533 6 McBee, Sarah Lucinda - 5508 14 McBee, Vincent Divine - 5462 11 McBee, William - 7526 2 McBee, William Ausby - 5514 17 Meyers, Katherine Sophronia K. - 2998, spouse of 10 Mink, Martha Ann - 5463, spouse of 11 Peck, Mary A. - 7530, spouse of 4 Vanbibber, Barbara - 7528, spouse of 2 Williams, Ann - 7527, spouse of 2 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Renee, Can you help with these? They connect into my Cupp/Meyers/Branson colateral lines. If you want the uplines I can send that on the Branson, Meyers, Cupp, but I have nothing else on the Bullards. John Bullard - 5160. He married Ethel Smith - 5126, daughter of Esco Smith - 5122 & Leona Meyers - 5112. Born 14 Aug 1928. They had the following children: 2 i. Joyce Ann Bullard - 5161 3 ii. Johnnie Bullard - 5162 4 iii. Gary Wayne Bullard - 5163 5 iv. Jimmy Bullard - 5164 6 v. Louis Bullard - 5165 Second Generation ———————————————————————————————————————— 2. Joyce Ann Bullard - 5161. Daughter of John Bullard - 5160 & Ethel Smith - 5126. Born 3 Jul 1951. 3. Johnnie Bullard - 5162. Son of John Bullard - 5160 & Ethel Smith - 5126. Born 22 Apr 1954. 4. Gary Wayne Bullard - 5163. Son of John Bullard - 5160 & Ethel Smith - 5126. Born 1 Jul 1956. Died 13 Jan 1957. 5. Jimmy Bullard - 5164. Son of John Bullard - 5160 & Ethel Smith - 5126. Born 1 Nov 1959. 6. Louis Bullard - 5165. Daughter of John Bullard - 5160 & Ethel Smith - 5126. Born 1961. Index ———————————————————————————————————————— Bullard, Gary Wayne - 5163 4 Bullard, Jimmy - 5164 5 Bullard, John - 5160 1 Bullard, Johnnie - 5162 3 Bullard, Joyce Ann - 5161 2 Bullard, Louis - 5165 6 Smith, Ethel - 5126, spouse of 1 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Ali. >. But I think I may be the only surviving descendant. LOL. I thought I was too, until I discovered the horse thieves and all the illegitimate cousins. Talk abolut LOL, I fell out of my chair while transcribing a court document where my gggaunt was testifying about her husband: "We had our family quarrels, and I never would commence the fusses, but when he commenced to fuss and quarrell with me, I would help him out, for he would get my dander up, and I would give him as good as I had." You can´t get more honest that that! If you think about it, "Hobby Genealogist" is a misnomer. No one talks about "hobby doctors", "hobby lawyers" or "hobby nuclear physicists". Amateur genealogist would be more descriptive, and even the rankest amateur should care greatly about his credibility. Duane Mills Stavanger, Norway

Ali, You draw the line when you post. Just as a serious researcher would not write and publish a reference book on a subject without copius footnotes so that other researchers could verify his expertise, it is your responsibility - even as an amateur - to be able to back up what you post, as those receiving assume you know what you are talking about. As I said earlier, goodness - you can include whatever you like in your private pedigree. Mine is full of speculation. But when you post, it is only responsible if you want any credibility, to be truthful. If you are speculating as we all do, then just say so with a "qualifier". To avoid posting wrong, I have marked all people that I have verified and when I make a gedcom I just check the "include only marked people". You may have given up hope, but you probably have not exhausted every source - we all have roadblocks to get around. Most times, the info is out there. It may be on site, or tucked away in some obscure place, but there is a court record, a will, or another relative with surviving info that just got interested in genealogy or something else somewhere. Good luck. Duane Mills >I totally agree that you should have documentation where it is >available. But Duane, where do YOU draw the line and say "I've done >all I could, exhausted every source, and still cannot find Great >Aunt Hester even though I know she existed because here's her >picture"? > >Of course we never stop looking and hoping, but there is a line. > >Ali > >United we stand, divided we fall. >God Bless America!!

Let me know if ya need more on Caswell. He is my husbands line thru his son Alexander. Ann Wise

A word of caution is in order. The ground rules for genealogy, research and pedigrees is the same whether you are a certified genealogist or a hobby genealogist. These rules have been refined over time and are very good. Unfortunately, not many hobby genealogist care to read one of the excellent tutorials online that explain the rules in detail. Also, unfortunately, the rules were formulated long ago when todays means of communication was not dreamed of. Saying you have other rules is fine as long as you keep it private, because it is your own business. What one does with one´s own pedigree or posts on their own web site is also their business, and theirs alone. The problem is that so many hobby genealogist take the easy way and grab at links that are circumstantial. They then spread this info far and wide on the web, or post it to one of the commercial sites with no qualifiers and it then becomes forever fact for unsuspecting beginners who are also taking the easy way and repeating and posting theirselves. I also take exception to the statement that before 1850, research is difficult. Colonial America had rules, regulations and covering almost everything from birth to death. Unfortunately, a lot is lost forever, but most hobby genealogist will not take the time and effort to do serious research. You have to show documentation to do anything today, why should it be different with genealogy? Why should we believe any pedigree when we all have gaps in our own and know how hard we worked to find proof and when we did, what we thought to be absolutely true (family history) turned out to be patently false. If you can not verify what you post for the world, you can at least qualify the info with something like: "maybe", "supposedly", "surely", "might be", "hopfully is" or something to alert the world that the info is not proven. Posting something that can not be documented is unfair. Duane Mills Stavanger, Norway >McBee49@aol.com wrote: >> >> Ali, you and I agree on circumstantial evidence. I am a genealogist that >> believes in "Leap of Faith". Prior to 1850, genealogy is a crap shoot at >> best. We only knew who the head of household was. Linking a child to a >> family couldn't really be done prior to 1850. I get so amazed at people who >> HAVE to have documentation. I believe in documentation as much as you can >> document it. Any information written down had to come from someone >> somewhere. What makes that information any more correct than information >> written down now by someone in this century. I have so many people who ask >> about "Documentation". If you are a Mellard and your family lived in >> Charleston, you can assume (usually quite correctly) that you are related to >> most of the Mellards from Charleston. Not all Smiths are related to all >> Smiths but I am sure you see what I am saying. My suggestion is to use that >> "Leap of Faith" if you must. Qualify it as a leap of faith. Bridge the gap >> and then work to strengthen your bridge. Have a great day. Danny. > >I don't see it as a "leap of faith" so much as building a case. >Circumstantial evidence can be used in a courtroom, but it must be used >to PROVE the case. So once one examines all the known record sources, >and eliminates the various candidates for "father" mother", "spouse", >and "child", then one can be "reasonably certain" that the relationship >is proved. As new record sources are found, the case can be re-examined. > >I agree that old speculation is no better than newly-written >speculation. Only a well-made case makes any sense. > >Valorie

Hello List, Well since the discussion is about documenting (Famous or Infamous) Ancestor, thought I would throw in my latest find. If anyone else Claims Him please let me know, I would be happy to Give Him UP! I have been looking for the youngest child of William H McBee from his 2nd marriage; to Elizabeth Adeline (Corgan), their son Robert (?B) McBee, (b.1850, Kaufman/Van Zandt Co., TX) for a long time. Well, I have a marriage record for a Robt B McBee and Mahala Jay in 1868 in Van Zandt Co., TX where the family home was originally, after his father Wm H., died in 1852 when Robt was only 2 years old, Wm's widow remarried and took Robt with her to Burnet Co., TX, found him there in 1860 with his Mother and her new family. Then 1868 I found (what I think is him) in the marriage record, and 2 land deeds in the 1870s from VZ Co., where he sells the land left to him as an heir of Wm. H. McBee. The deeds say he lived in Llano Co., TX. But as you guessed it, neither He or his (possible wife) were found anywhere in Llano Co., in 1870. Instead I found a Robert McBee in Lampasas Co., TX, living with a family I am not familiar with, and No Wife! The only reason I looked in Lampasas Co., in 1870 was because I had found on the 1880 Census in Bosque Co., TX, a (Mahala McBea, age 36, Widow) living with her sister's family,and a (Bob McBee) in the TX State Penitentiary in Huntsville, Walker Co., TX and had written to the TX State Archives, they sent the note Below; Is He MINE or Is HE YOURS, LOLOL, Thanks so much for listening, Elnora Frances Cook-Wyrick PS; I agree on the best documentation I can find, if I can't find it and still every clue points to confirmation, then I preface with (Possibly/Probably) > From: "Archives Info" <archinfo@tsl.state.tx.us> > To: <ejwaa@worldnet.att.net> > Sent: Wednesday, October 31, 2001 1:56 PM > Subject: Re: Prison Records 1880; Bob McBee > Dear Ms. Cook-Wyrick: > I am responding to your recent request to the Texas State Library and > Archives Commission concerning Bob McBee. > > I have checked the convict ledgers in our possession for information on this > individual. there is indeed an entry for him. The information from the > index is as follows: > Year: 1880 > Convict number: 8719 > Name: Bob McBee > County: Lampasas > > His crime appears to be "Assault to Murder". The handwriting is rather > difficult to read. I checked the distribution of offenses in the Biennial > Report of the Texas State Penitentiary for 1880-1882, and this seems to be > the closest match. There also seems to be two counts of this offense. His > sentence was four years, of which he served about three months, as he was > killed while trying to escape. > > Unfortunately, there is no birth date given beyond a statement of his age, > nor is there place of birth more precise than "Texas". His parents are not > mentioned, and his Marital Relations are listed as "none". This does not > mean he was never married, just that he was not married at the time. He > could also have lied. Prison inmates are not the most honest of > characters. > > These records are available to the public, but must be used onsite. The > Archives collection of the Texas State Library and Archives Commission is > open Monday through Friday, 8 a.m.-5 p.m. Directions and a map are > available on our website: > http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/agency/visit.html#lorenzo > > I can send you a transcription of the data we have that can be attributed > to this particular individual, though you may benefit from attempting to > translate the handwriting for yourself. Illegible words or symbols will be > copied as they appear in the ledgers. I regret to inform you these ledgers > cannot be photocopied, due to their age, fragility, and sheer size. The > cost for this service will be only $1.00 to cover the postage and copies of > the transcription forms. > If you would like me to send you the transcribed information, simply send > an affirmative reply to this email and include the text of this message. > > I hope you will find this information helpful. > > Research Assistant/CM > Archives and Information Services Division > http://www.tsl.state.tx.us/ > mailto:archinfo@tsl.state.tx.us > (512) 463-5480

Duane, Now that aunt was truly great and absolutely adorable. I haven't found any horse thieves yet, but maybe they were just real good at eluding the law. Possibly a name change to Smith. Hee hee, maybe that's where my Smith lines come from? Nah, I have plenty of documentation for them. None that sprang full grown at the back of the picture from out of nowhere. You've seen the pictures, "This is Great Aunt Hester and Great Uncle Dudley, Unknown man in the middle" You can lump me in with those rank ameteurs, but I do look for documentation where it exists, I learned my lesson about 3 years ago when a possible second cousin to my mother told me I would have to prove my grandfather before I could be accepted into that family. Basically she was asking how I knew he was my grandfather. Jeez, he told me and my mother told me! But it made me remember to search out what proof exists out there. This has been enjoyable Duane. Thanks. Ali United we stand, divided we fall. God Bless America!! From: duane mills <duane@online.no> Reply-To: MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com To: MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [McBEE] Documentation versus Word of Mouth Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 17:51:00 +0100 Ali. >. But I think I may be the only surviving descendant. LOL. I thought I was too, until I discovered the horse thieves and all the illegitimate cousins. Talk abolut LOL, I fell out of my chair while transcribing a court document where my gggaunt was testifying about her husband: "We had our family quarrels, and I never would commence the fusses, but when he commenced to fuss and quarrell with me, I would help him out, for he would get my dander up, and I would give him as good as I had." You canŽt get more honest that that! If you think about it, "Hobby Genealogist" is a misnomer. No one talks about "hobby doctors", "hobby lawyers" or "hobby nuclear physicists". Amateur genealogist would be more descriptive, and even the rankest amateur should care greatly about his credibility. Duane Mills Stavanger, Norway ==== MCBEE Mailing List ==== Don't forget our Message Board, courtesy of Rootsweb! Queries, Bible records, Biographies, Deeds, Obits, Pensions, Wills and other data: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/board/rw/surnames.mcbee ============================== Search over 1 Billion names at Ancestry.com! http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist1.asp _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Duane, Good. Absolutely, I've never given up hope of finding the documentation to back up the information that was passed down to me. But I think I may be the only surviving descendant. LOL. My information that was sorta posted yesterday has been posted before, and there have been references in the McBee newsletter to the same information along with sources, so sometimes I fail to post sources when I post a query in present time. Ali United we stand, divided we fall. God Bless America!! From: duane mills <duane@online.no> Reply-To: MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com To: MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [McBEE] Documentation versus Word of Mouth Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 15:58:20 +0100 Ali, You draw the line when you post. Just as a serious researcher would not write and publish a reference book on a subject without copius footnotes so that other researchers could verify his expertise, it is your responsibility - even as an amateur - to be able to back up what you post, as those receiving assume you know what you are talking about. As I said earlier, goodness - you can include whatever you like in your private pedigree. Mine is full of speculation. But when you post, it is only responsible if you want any credibility, to be truthful. If you are speculating as we all do, then just say so with a "qualifier". To avoid posting wrong, I have marked all people that I have verified and when I make a gedcom I just check the "include only marked people". You may have given up hope, but you probably have not exhausted every source - we all have roadblocks to get around. Most times, the info is out there. It may be on site, or tucked away in some obscure place, but there is a court record, a will, or another relative with surviving info that just got interested in genealogy or something else somewhere. Good luck. Duane Mills >I totally agree that you should have documentation where it is >available. But Duane, where do YOU draw the line and say "I've done >all I could, exhausted every source, and still cannot find Great >Aunt Hester even though I know she existed because here's her >picture"? > >Of course we never stop looking and hoping, but there is a line. > >Ali > >United we stand, divided we fall. >God Bless America!! ==== MCBEE Mailing List ==== RootsWeb forbids posting of copyrighted material without permission of the author. Read RootsWeb's Acceptable Use Policy at http://www.rootsweb.com/rootsweb/aup.html ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Duane, You're right, but if the people in question started moving west, each move would have meant new opportunities to lose any documentation they once had. Uncle Willie, being the family historian because he could read and write, was in charge of the family bible. Uncle Willie got attacked by Indians and his home burned to the ground. The family bible with all the information is lost forever. Some families had babies that were never recorded at the county or state level, just in the family bible because all they had was a circuit riding clerk, judge or doctor. Maybe the resident clergy never got around to recording their marriage and so no record. I totally agree that you should have documentation where it is available. But Duane, where do YOU draw the line and say "I've done all I could, exhausted every source, and still cannot find Great Aunt Hester even though I know she existed because here's her picture"? Of course we never stop looking and hoping, but there is a line. Ali United we stand, divided we fall. God Bless America!! From: duane mills <duane@online.no> Reply-To: MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com To: MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [McBEE] Documentation versus Word of Mouth Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 12:46:28 +0100 A word of caution is in order. The ground rules for genealogy, research and pedigrees is the same whether you are a certified genealogist or a hobby genealogist. These rules have been refined over time and are very good. Unfortunately, not many hobby genealogist care to read one of the excellent tutorials online that explain the rules in detail. Also, unfortunately, the rules were formulated long ago when todays means of communication was not dreamed of. Saying you have other rules is fine as long as you keep it private, because it is your own business. What one does with oneŽs own pedigree or posts on their own web site is also their business, and theirs alone. The problem is that so many hobby genealogist take the easy way and grab at links that are circumstantial. They then spread this info far and wide on the web, or post it to one of the commercial sites with no qualifiers and it then becomes forever fact for unsuspecting beginners who are also taking the easy way and repeating and posting theirselves. I also take exception to the statement that before 1850, research is difficult. Colonial America had rules, regulations and covering almost everything from birth to death. Unfortunately, a lot is lost forever, but most hobby genealogist will not take the time and effort to do serious research. You have to show documentation to do anything today, why should it be different with genealogy? Why should we believe any pedigree when we all have gaps in our own and know how hard we worked to find proof and when we did, what we thought to be absolutely true (family history) turned out to be patently false. If you can not verify what you post for the world, you can at least qualify the info with something like: "maybe", "supposedly", "surely", "might be", "hopfully is" or something to alert the world that the info is not proven. Posting something that can not be documented is unfair. Duane Mills Stavanger, Norway >McBee49@aol.com wrote: >> >> Ali, you and I agree on circumstantial evidence. I am a genealogist >>that >> believes in "Leap of Faith". Prior to 1850, genealogy is a crap shoot >>at >> best. We only knew who the head of household was. Linking a child to a >> family couldn't really be done prior to 1850. I get so amazed at people >>who >> HAVE to have documentation. I believe in documentation as much as you >>can >> document it. Any information written down had to come from someone >> somewhere. What makes that information any more correct than >>information >> written down now by someone in this century. I have so many people who >>ask >> about "Documentation". If you are a Mellard and your family lived in >> Charleston, you can assume (usually quite correctly) that you are >>related to >> most of the Mellards from Charleston. Not all Smiths are related to all >> Smiths but I am sure you see what I am saying. My suggestion is to use >>that >> "Leap of Faith" if you must. Qualify it as a leap of faith. Bridge the >>gap >> and then work to strengthen your bridge. Have a great day. Danny. > >I don't see it as a "leap of faith" so much as building a case. >Circumstantial evidence can be used in a courtroom, but it must be used >to PROVE the case. So once one examines all the known record sources, >and eliminates the various candidates for "father" mother", "spouse", >and "child", then one can be "reasonably certain" that the relationship >is proved. As new record sources are found, the case can be re-examined. > >I agree that old speculation is no better than newly-written >speculation. Only a well-made case makes any sense. > >Valorie ==== MCBEE Mailing List ==== Need help writing *excellent* queries? Check out http://www.ancestry.com/library/view/news/articles/503.asp ============================== Visit Ancestry.com for a FREE 14-Day Trial and enjoy access to the #1 Source for Family History Online. Go to: http://www.ancestry.com/rd/redir.asp?targetid=702&sourceid=1237 _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Ali, you and I agree on circumstantial evidence. I am a genealogist that believes in "Leap of Faith". Prior to 1850, genealogy is a crap shoot at best. We only knew who the head of household was. Linking a child to a family couldn't really be done prior to 1850. I get so amazed at people who HAVE to have documentation. I believe in documentation as much as you can document it. Any information written down had to come from someone somewhere. What makes that information any more correct than information written down now by someone in this century. I have so many people who ask about "Documentation". If you are a Mellard and your family lived in Charleston, you can assume (usually quite correctly) that you are related to most of the Mellards from Charleston. Not all Smiths are related to all Smiths but I am sure you see what I am saying. My suggestion is to use that "Leap of Faith" if you must. Qualify it as a leap of faith. Bridge the gap and then work to strengthen your bridge. Have a great day. Danny.

McBee49@aol.com wrote: > > Ali, you and I agree on circumstantial evidence. I am a genealogist that > believes in "Leap of Faith". Prior to 1850, genealogy is a crap shoot at > best. We only knew who the head of household was. Linking a child to a > family couldn't really be done prior to 1850. I get so amazed at people who > HAVE to have documentation. I believe in documentation as much as you can > document it. Any information written down had to come from someone > somewhere. What makes that information any more correct than information > written down now by someone in this century. I have so many people who ask > about "Documentation". If you are a Mellard and your family lived in > Charleston, you can assume (usually quite correctly) that you are related to > most of the Mellards from Charleston. Not all Smiths are related to all > Smiths but I am sure you see what I am saying. My suggestion is to use that > "Leap of Faith" if you must. Qualify it as a leap of faith. Bridge the gap > and then work to strengthen your bridge. Have a great day. Danny. I don't see it as a "leap of faith" so much as building a case. Circumstantial evidence can be used in a courtroom, but it must be used to PROVE the case. So once one examines all the known record sources, and eliminates the various candidates for "father" mother", "spouse", and "child", then one can be "reasonably certain" that the relationship is proved. As new record sources are found, the case can be re-examined. I agree that old speculation is no better than newly-written speculation. Only a well-made case makes any sense. Valorie -- I shall allow no man to belittle my soul by making me hate him. - Booker T. Washington

Danny, what a gem you are. You know, my mom used to have a saying, "if they were caught in my trap, they belong to me". In her case she was referring to her Baker kin. If they looked, acted, smelled like Bakers, and hung out with Bakers, they must be Bakers. LOL. Funny you should use Smith as an example, I've found 4 distinctly different Smith families that are unrelated to each other but all connected to my kin somewhere or the other. Well, I've been working on the premise that if Robert Magby named three of his sons William, Joel and Jefferson and William's two daughters wound up in the household of James A. Baker, Margaret Magby's husband, and if Margaret and James named two of their sons William and Joel Jefferson, then even if they weren't related, they really knew each other really, really well. I agree that in some cases, there will be some documents that if they existed at one time may have been destroyed long ago. My branch of the family moved so much all that survived were verbal stories. I'm wondering if a different scenario might have existed actually. Vardry McBee was a clerk in Lincoln co NC, and witnessed many of my mom's maternal line marriages, the Magbys are on her Paternal line. I don't know what connection Elijah (d. 1814) has to Vardry, but if the connection to Elijah includes Robert, then maybe knowing that there were several branches out there, they may have used Elijah's name to distinguish which branch we hailed from. Vardry was found in Robert's household in 1840. So its a given that they at least knew each other. Ali United we stand, divided we fall. God Bless America!! From: McBee49@aol.com Reply-To: MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com To: MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [McBEE] Documentation versus Word of Mouth Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 23:00:02 EST Ali, you and I agree on circumstantial evidence. I am a genealogist that believes in "Leap of Faith". Prior to 1850, genealogy is a crap shoot at best. We only knew who the head of household was. Linking a child to a family couldn't really be done prior to 1850. I get so amazed at people who HAVE to have documentation. I believe in documentation as much as you can document it. Any information written down had to come from someone somewhere. What makes that information any more correct than information written down now by someone in this century. I have so many people who ask about "Documentation". If you are a Mellard and your family lived in Charleston, you can assume (usually quite correctly) that you are related to most of the Mellards from Charleston. Not all Smiths are related to all Smiths but I am sure you see what I am saying. My suggestion is to use that "Leap of Faith" if you must. Qualify it as a leap of faith. Bridge the gap and then work to strengthen your bridge. Have a great day. Danny. ==== MCBEE Mailing List ==== To Unsubscribe: Click on <mailto:McBee-L-request@rootsweb.com> to create a new message with UNSUBSCRIBE as the *only* text in the message, and as the subject. Contact Valorie <mailto:McBee-admin@rootsweb.com> with any questions, list problems, or virus warnings. ============================== Visit Ancestry's Library - The best collection of family history learning and how-to articles on the Internet. http://www.ancestry.com/learn/library _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp

Subject: {not a subscriber} Re: Jesse McBEE b. TN, wife Rebecca b. KY, ch. Robert, Catherine, Elizabeth, James A. & Samuel 1850 Newton Co. MO Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:53:06 -0700 From: snowpine@earthlink.net This is a gatewayed Message Board Post, Classification: Query Surnames: Mcbee, Kinney, Southworth -- Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/HNz.2ACEB/220.220.2 Message Board Post - *** CLICK THE LINK to Respond *** : do you have any info on Rebecca Kinney, wife of Jesse were gradparents, Aurora was My birth mother,and jesse a mcbee southworth my grandfather,

Yunno Karen, Criminals have been thrown in prison on less circumstantial evidence than you have, and yet we still are stubborn about finding that physical link...I know absolutely in my heart that Margaret Magby was a daughter of Robert Magby by his first wife, but family lore says she's the daughter of Elijah Megabee/Magby. I've found no such person as Elijah in the right time frame to be her father, yet Robert fits all the criteria except physical proof. The only proof I know of is apparently lost, the bible that Robert's son William and his wife allegedly saved from their house fire. Does anyone know if this story is true? Boy, what I wouldn't give for a peek at that. Ali United we stand, divided we fall. God Bless America!! From: "S. Renee Schaeffer" <enterprise@seanet.com> Reply-To: MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com To: MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [McBEE] MCBEE, Caswell, John, etc. - clarification Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:03:03 -0800 Thanks Karen. You have cleared up a mystery I have long since been perplexed about. Family names more often than not tell the story. Renee ----- Original Message ----- From: Karen Groce <wgroce@netdoor.com> To: <MCBEE-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 12:18 PM Subject: [McBEE] MCBEE, Caswell, John, etc. - clarification > > Mr. Quintrell may not have linked Samuel and Israel on paper, but he always > led me to believe these two guys were brothers and the children of William > who md. Abigail, who was probably/possibly the son of William and Susannah. > Mr. Q. was fairly certain that Samuel was the son of William/Abigail. Wish > I had the firm proof for you though. Ah, these MCBEEs - aren't they a joy? > :-) > > Karen Groce > wgroce@netdoor.com > > > > ==== MCBEE Mailing List ==== > Don't forget our Message Board, courtesy of Rootsweb! Queries, Bible > records, Biographies, Deeds, Obits, Pensions, Wills and other data: > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/board/rw/surnames.mcbee > > ============================== > Ancestry.com Genealogical Databases > http://www.ancestry.com/rd/rwlist2.asp > Search over 2500 databases with one easy query! > > > ==== MCBEE Mailing List ==== Rootsweb has created a resource page for us, with a number of searches and other goodies: http://resources.rootsweb.com/surnames/m/c/MCBEE ============================== Shop Ancestry - Everything you need to Discover, Preserve & Celebrate your heritage! http://shop.myfamily.com/ancestrycatalog _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp