Hi list: I've got a stumbling block and I'm hoping the list might offer some suggestions for further research or perhaps someone is a descendant who has documented sources to settle my problem. Perhaps providing a third source that provides the same family information that I will be citing below can confirm or deny what each of these authors have stated. Chamberlain has been mostly accurate with what was written, but by going through these names as I have done, I have found that on one family he has posted a lot of information about both parties to the marriage and their children and in others there is sometimes a blank line to indicate an unknown surname of a particular spouse, but turning to that surname of the other spouse clears it up. But in the meantime I need the list to help me solve my stumbling block as to the family structure and relationships. I researched Chamberlain's Genealogies of the Early Families of Weymouth, Massachusetts and now am comparing it to a New England Historic Genealogical Society article which appeared in the April 1965 volume on the Descendants of Andrew Ford of Weymouth, Mass. A third source covers one of the children which will be discussed below and marked with two astericks and followed up after that with the information from this third source. Here's my problem so far: On page 118 of the Andrew Ford genealogy it is discussing the children of Hezekiah Ford and his first wife, Ruth Whitmarsh (his second wife was Sarah Magoun). Among his children is a daughter Ruth, b. 3 May 1716; d. at the home of her daughter, Naomi (Reed) Hersey, 9 Jan. 1791; m. (1) in Abington, 27 Nov. 1735, Joseph Pool (also spelled Poole in Chamberlain's), b. probably in Weymouth 11 Feb. 1716/17, d. about 1738, son of Samuel and Sarah (Nash) Pool; m. (2), in Abington, 30 Aug 1741, James Reed, b. there 12 Oct. 1716, d. aged 37, son of John and Mary (Whitmarsh) Reed; m. (3) in Bridgewater, 31 May 1764, as his second wife, Samuel Porter of East Bridgewater, b. in Weymouth 14 May 1699, son of Samuel and Mary (Nash) Porter. After the death of her third husband Ruth moved to Whitman to live with her daughter, Naomi (Reed) Hersey. Ruth and Joseph Pool had children: Ruth, b. 18 Oct 1736; m. Noah Gurney. Hannah, b. 16 Dec. 1738; m. Micah Sampson** Ruth and James Reed had children: Joseph, b. 9 Aug. 1742; d. unm. Hezekiah, b. 23 Feb 1744/5; m. Deborah Tirrell Jeremiah, b. 4 Oct. 1746; d. 11 Dec 1747 Jeremiah, b. 11 April 1747; m. Sarh Tirrell Olive, b. 2 Feb 1748/9; probably d. young. Naomi, b. in 1751 m. Obadiah Hersey In Chamberlain's genealogies I have discovered a problem and wonder if anyone can help me sort it out. Looking at p. 475 under Capt. Joseph Poole, b. 1656 it shows he married abt 1673 Elizabeth Shaw, daughter of John and Alice (Philips) Shaw, b. at Weymouth, 26 Feb. 1655-56. He died in Weymouth between 11 Apr. and 16 May 1706. They had 9 children born between 1674 and 1690. The line does not extend beyond the entry of the children born of this marriage. Moving to p. 612 under John Shaw, bap. Halifax, Eng. 1630 it shows he married Alice Philips, who was the mother of all his children. It lists Elizabeth, b. 26 Feb 1655-56 and states she married Joseph Poole of Weymouth. Okay, everything matches between the Descendants of Andrew Ford and Chamberlain; however, here's my problem. Before I came across the Descendants of Andrew Ford, it had been researching and entering the data into my computer by following many of my other family surnames, one of them being Bates. I had entered into my database from previous research in Chamberlain for my Bates family an Elizabeth Shaw who married Edward Bates. Despite the fact that no parents are listed in Chamberlain for her under this entry, I went to the Shaw side and based on the dates provided, determined that her parents should be John Shaw and Alice Philips. Therefore; moving back into the alphabetic surnames to Bates, p. 23 and specifically Edward Bates, b. 10 Dec 1655 it says he married an Elizabeth Shaw, daughter of Dea. John Shaw, b. 26 Feb. 1656, she died 6 July 1748 at Hingham. Edward and Elizabeth had 11 children born between 1679 and probably before 1705 as the last child had no date of birth given but the child previously to this was born 1701. The spacing of their children are anywhere from 2-3 years apart based on the dates of the births cited. Going forward to Deacon John Shaw, p. 613, he is born in Weymouth and married to Hannah Whitmarsh, daughter of Nicholas and Hannah (___) Whitmarsh b. Weymouth 25 Mar 1660-61. [Note: After entering lots of data into my database from this source, I have determined that Nicholas Whitmarsh should be married to Hannah Reed. Okay, now comes the fun part. Deacon John Shaw and Hannah Reed DID NOT have a daughter Elizabeth born 1655. Their first child was born 1679 and the last was born 1693. If she had Elizabeth in 1655/6, she would have been bearing children for about 40 years. Wouldn't that be breaking medical science? Not to mention the fact that she would have had to conceive Elizabeth at the age of 5! Moving to page. 612 there is a John Shaw - described above - who married Alice Philips who DOES HAVE a daughter Elizabeth. She more likely fits into this family because the Deacon John Shaw which is on page 613 is her BROTHER and NOT her father! Is it possible that Chamberlain made a mistake about the marriage between Elizabeth Shaw and Edward Bates? Or did he make a mistake about the marriage between Elizabeth Shaw and Joseph Pool(e)? Based on the dates of births for the children of Edward and Elizabeth and Joseph and Elizabeth, it would not be possible that the Elizabeth listed are one and the same person as the dates of their children tend to conflict or override each other. Now, because of this confusion, I have two Elizabeth Shaws who married two different men and having children by each that run concurrently an are both born on the same date and place. What fun! **Mayflower Families Through Five Generations - Vol. 20, part 1, Henry Sampson on pg. 132-133 it discusses the family of Michael (occasionally Micah) Samson, b. 25 Dec 1732 wo married first in Abington to Hannah Pool, b. Abington 16 Dec. 1738; d. there bet. Sept. 1775 and Nov 1780; dau. of Joseph and Ruth (Ford) Pool. No Plymouth Co. PR for Joseph Pool. Michael (Micah) is a descendant of Henry Sampson of the Mayflower. Any help would be appreciated. Christie Trapp

All, Since the will of John SHAW (who married Alice PHILLIPS) mentions his daughter Elizabeth, wife of Joseph POOLE, it is clear who Mrs. POOLE's parents were. Who Mrs. BATES's parents were is the issue. Apparently Chamberlain erred in his statements on p. 23. At 05:14 PM 11/26/02 -0500, ChristieTrapp@aol.com wrote: >Hi list: > >I've got a stumbling block and I'm hoping the list might offer some >suggestions for further research or perhaps someone is a descendant who has >documented sources to settle my problem. Perhaps providing a third source >that provides the same family information that I will be citing below can >confirm or deny what each of these authors have stated. > >Chamberlain has been mostly accurate with what was written, but by going >through these names as I have done, I have found that on one family he has >posted a lot of information about both parties to the marriage and their >children and in others there is sometimes a blank line to indicate an unknown >surname of a particular spouse, but turning to that surname of the other >spouse clears it up. > >But in the meantime I need the list to help me solve my stumbling block as to >the family structure and relationships. > >I researched Chamberlain's Genealogies of the Early Families of Weymouth, >Massachusetts and now am comparing it to a New England Historic Genealogical >Society article which appeared in the April 1965 volume on the Descendants of >Andrew Ford of Weymouth, Mass. A third source covers one of the children >which will be discussed below and marked with two astericks and followed up >after that with the information from this third source. > >Here's my problem so far: > >On page 118 of the Andrew Ford genealogy it is discussing the children of >Hezekiah Ford and his first wife, Ruth Whitmarsh (his second wife was Sarah >Magoun). Among his children is a daughter Ruth, b. 3 May 1716; d. at the >home of her daughter, Naomi (Reed) Hersey, 9 Jan. 1791; m. (1) in Abington, >27 Nov. 1735, Joseph Pool (also spelled Poole in Chamberlain's), b. probably >in Weymouth 11 Feb. 1716/17, d. about 1738, son of Samuel and Sarah (Nash) >Pool; m. (2), in Abington, 30 Aug 1741, James Reed, b. there 12 Oct. 1716, d. >aged 37, son of John and Mary (Whitmarsh) Reed; m. (3) in Bridgewater, 31 May >1764, as his second wife, Samuel Porter of East Bridgewater, b. in Weymouth >14 May 1699, son of Samuel and Mary (Nash) Porter. After the death of her >third husband Ruth moved to Whitman to live with her daughter, Naomi (Reed) >Hersey. > >Ruth and Joseph Pool had children: >Ruth, b. 18 Oct 1736; m. Noah Gurney. >Hannah, b. 16 Dec. 1738; m. Micah Sampson** > >Ruth and James Reed had children: >Joseph, b. 9 Aug. 1742; d. unm. >Hezekiah, b. 23 Feb 1744/5; m. Deborah Tirrell >Jeremiah, b. 4 Oct. 1746; d. 11 Dec 1747 >Jeremiah, b. 11 April 1747; m. Sarh Tirrell >Olive, b. 2 Feb 1748/9; probably d. young. >Naomi, b. in 1751 m. Obadiah Hersey > >In Chamberlain's genealogies I have discovered a problem and wonder if anyone >can help me sort it out. > >Looking at p. 475 under Capt. Joseph Poole, b. 1656 it shows he married abt >1673 Elizabeth Shaw, daughter of John and Alice (Philips) Shaw, b. at >Weymouth, 26 Feb. 1655-56. He died in Weymouth between 11 Apr. and 16 May >1706. They had 9 children born between 1674 and 1690. The line does not >extend beyond the entry of the children born of this marriage. > >Moving to p. 612 under John Shaw, bap. Halifax, Eng. 1630 it shows he married >Alice Philips, who was the mother of all his children. It lists Elizabeth, >b. 26 Feb 1655-56 and states she married Joseph Poole of Weymouth. > >Okay, everything matches between the Descendants of Andrew Ford and >Chamberlain; however, here's my problem. Before I came across the >Descendants of Andrew Ford, it had been researching and entering the data >into my computer by following many of my other family surnames, one of them >being Bates. > >I had entered into my database from previous research in Chamberlain for my >Bates family an Elizabeth Shaw who married Edward Bates. Despite the fact >that no parents are listed in Chamberlain for her under this entry, I went to >the Shaw side and based on the dates provided, determined that her parents >should be John Shaw and Alice Philips. Therefore; moving back into the >alphabetic surnames to Bates, p. 23 and specifically Edward Bates, b. 10 Dec >1655 it says he married an Elizabeth Shaw, daughter of Dea. John Shaw, b. 26 >Feb. 1656, she died 6 July 1748 at Hingham. Edward and Elizabeth had 11 >children born between 1679 and probably before 1705 as the last child had no >date of birth given but the child previously to this was born 1701. The >spacing of their children are anywhere from 2-3 years apart based on the >dates of the births cited. > >Going forward to Deacon John Shaw, p. 613, he is born in Weymouth and married >to Hannah Whitmarsh, daughter of Nicholas and Hannah (___) Whitmarsh b. >Weymouth 25 Mar 1660-61. [Note: After entering lots of data into my >database from this source, I have determined that Nicholas Whitmarsh should >be married to Hannah Reed. > >Okay, now comes the fun part. Deacon John Shaw and Hannah Reed DID NOT have >a daughter Elizabeth born 1655. Their first child was born 1679 and the last >was born 1693. If she had Elizabeth in 1655/6, she would have been bearing >children for about 40 years. Wouldn't that be breaking medical science? Not >to mention the fact that she would have had to conceive Elizabeth at the age >of 5! > >Moving to page. 612 there is a John Shaw - described above - who married >Alice Philips who DOES HAVE a daughter Elizabeth. She more likely fits into >this family because the Deacon John Shaw which is on page 613 is her BROTHER >and NOT her father! > >Is it possible that Chamberlain made a mistake about the marriage between >Elizabeth Shaw and Edward Bates? Or did he make a mistake about the marriage >between Elizabeth Shaw and Joseph Pool(e)? > >Based on the dates of births for the children of Edward and Elizabeth and >Joseph and Elizabeth, it would not be possible that the Elizabeth listed are >one and the same person as the dates of their children tend to conflict or >override each other. > >Now, because of this confusion, I have two Elizabeth Shaws who married two >different men and having children by each that run concurrently an are both >born on the same date and place. What fun! > >**Mayflower Families Through Five Generations - Vol. 20, part 1, Henry >Sampson on pg. 132-133 it discusses the family of Michael (occasionally >Micah) Samson, b. 25 Dec 1732 wo married first in Abington to Hannah Pool, b. >Abington 16 Dec. 1738; d. there bet. Sept. 1775 and Nov 1780; dau. of Joseph >and Ruth (Ford) Pool. No Plymouth Co. PR for Joseph Pool. Michael (Micah) >is a descendant of Henry Sampson of the Mayflower. > >Any help would be appreciated. > >Christie Trapp Regards, Robert Robert L. Ward Genealogical Research 12236 Shadetree Lane, Laurel, MD 20708-2832 301-776-1659 http://www.rlward.com/ <info@rlward.com>