The NEHGS site (which already has the Register to 1994 and other databases online for members) is adding another database which may be of great interest to many of us. This is what their website says: "Early Vital Records of Massachusetts will present birth, marriage, and death information as well as marriage intentions and baptismal and burial records. Culled from vital records, church records, cemetery records, bible records, and other sources, these records will be an invaluable resource to researchers. Cambridge, Charlemont, and Conway are the first towns to be released."

I have just seen a newsletter from a church which states that the Pilgrims "stole" the seed corn from the Native Americans and never thanked them for it. I know this is off-topic, but things like that bother me, and I don't know any sources with which to refute statements like these. Can someone recommend a history of the colony, or would Wm. Bradford's account be the best? Thanks. Mildred Mallek (Bradford descendant)

"The Truth about the Pilgrims" addresses many "charges" against the pilgrims. Why not relax? They did "steal" the corn, right? They tried to mitigate the "theft" but ... they did "steal" it. Is it "wrong" to "steal" to eat? Is it wrong to engage in revisionist history and complain that they didn't "steal" it? --- Mildred <mallek@pensys.com> wrote: > I have just seen a newsletter from a church which states that the > Pilgrims "stole" the seed corn from the Native Americans and never > thanked them for it. > > I know this is off-topic, but things like that bother me, and I don't > know any sources with which to refute statements like these. Can > someone recommend a history of the colony, or would Wm. > Bradford's account be the best? > > Thanks. > > Mildred Mallek (Bradford descendant) > > > ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== > Check out the web page of the General Society of Mayflower > Descendants at http://www.mayflower.org/ > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus � Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Bradford's account does say that Captain Standish led the first expedition onto the cape on Nov. 15. "Afterwards they directed their course to come to the other shore, for they knew it was a neck of land they were to cross over, and so at length got to the seaside and marched to this supposed river, and bu the way found a found of clear, fresh water, and shortly after a good quantity of clear ground where the Indians had formerly set corn and some of their graves. And proceeding furthe they saw new stubble where cord had been set the same year; also they found where lately a house had been, where some planks and a great kettle was remaining and heaps of sand newly paddled with their hands. Which, they digging up, found in them divers fair Indian baskets filled with corn, and some in ears, fair and good, of divers colours, which seemed to them a goodly sight (having never seen any such before). This was near the place of that supposed river they came to seek, unto which they went and found it to oopen itself into two arms with a high cliff of sand in the entrance but more like to be creeks of salt water than any fresh for aught they saw; and that there was good harborage for their shallop, when she was ready. So their time limited them being expired, they returned to the ship lest they should be in fear of their safety; and took with them part of the corn and buried up the rest. And so. like the men from Eshcol, carried with them the fruits of the land and showed their brethren; of which, and their return, they were marvelously glad and their hearts encouraged." The next expedition they also took some corn and beans from some indian houses whose inhabitants "were run away and could not be seen". "And here is to be noted a special providence of God, and a great mercy to this poor people, that here they got seed to plant them corn the next year, or else they might have starved, for they had none nor any likelihood to gen any till the season had been past, as the sequel did manifest. Neither is it likely they had had this, if the first voyage had not been made, for the ground was now all covered with snow and hard frozen; but the Lord is never wanting unto His in their greatest needs; let His hold name have all the praise." Yes, they stole the corn and beans, but Bradford makes it clear later that the Pilgrims did their best to befriend the Native Americans and thank them for their help by helping and teaching each other. Robert Luce (A Chilton Descendant through Solomon Leonard) Mildred wrote: > I have just seen a newsletter from a church which states that the >Pilgrims "stole" the seed corn from the Native Americans and never >thanked them for it. > >I know this is off-topic, but things like that bother me, and I don't >know any sources with which to refute statements like these. Can >someone recommend a history of the colony, or would Wm. >Bradford's account be the best? > >Thanks. > >Mildred Mallek (Bradford descendant) > > -- Robert Luce <rluce@pacbell.net> --- Il faut supporter deux ou trois chenilles --- si on veut connaître les papillons.. --- -Antoine de Saint Exupéry

***-----Original Message----- ***From: Mildred [mailto:mallek@pensys.com] ***Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 9:45 AM ***To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com ***Subject: [MFLR] RE: Pilgrims and their seed corn *** *** *** I have just seen a newsletter from a church which states that the ***Pilgrims "stole" the seed corn from the Native Americans and never ***thanked them for it. *** ***I know this is off-topic, but things like that bother me, and I don't ***know any sources with which to refute statements like these. Can ***someone recommend a history of the colony, or would Wm. ***Bradford's account be the best? *** ***Thanks. *** ***Mildred Mallek (Bradford descendant) Hi Mildred, I don't think this is off topic at all--am I wrong? It's interesting that this was the way a church newsletter presented the affair. I assume the incident they meant was the discovery of several buried baskets of corn on Nov. 15th by Miles Standish and a party of men looking for a place to settle. The Mayflower had reached the continent days earlier, supplies were very low and the prospect of finding food in the wilderness was not good. This was not a raid on an Indian village. The men found the buried corn and then a bit later went back and got more. Bradford speaks of the event this way, and I think we must believe that he is sincere, "And here is to be noted a special providence of God, and a great mercy to this poor people, that they have got seed to plant them corn the next year,or else they might have starved, for they had none nor any likelihood to get any till the season had been past, as the sequel did manifest. Neither is it likely they had had this, if the first voyage had not been made, for the ground was now all covered with snow and hard frozen; but the Lord is never wanting unto His in their greatest needs; let His holy name have all the praise." ( p. 66 of the Modern Library Morison ed., 1967) Bradford says they intended to pay for the corn when the opportunity came, and six moths later it did and Bradford says the Indians were paid "to their good content." We may have our own feelings about how the Pilgrims viewed themselves in their relationship to God, but I do think we have to believe that Bradford was sincere and not rationalizing. He saw this as God's way of saving the Pilgrims from starvation. It wasn't a matter of their going and taking it from the Indians, but a matter of it's having been put there for the Pilgims through the agency of the Indians, or so, I think, Bradford believed. I don't think we can really call this theft if we are speaking of the motivations and understanding of the Pilgrims. As to a history of the Colony, I would think most people would think Eugene Aubrey Stratton's _Plymouth Colony: Its History and People_(Salt Lake City UT, Ancestry Publishing, 1986) is a very good choice, especially for people on this list as it is concerned with genealogy and history equally. It is very readable, is sound scholarship, and lots of fun. It was on sale through Ancestry.com recently, might still be, but is inexpensive anyway. It has been available through NEHGS and I assume through the big online booksellers, and of course many libraries have it. Another book which is older and I think only available now through libraries, and which I think is excellent, is George D. Langdon's _Pilgrim Colony:A History of New Plymouth 1620-1691_(New Haven, Yale University Press, 1966) This is also very readable and I think it's too bad it is out of print ( and if anyone knows that I'm wrong and it is in print I'd love to know that). I would personally think it would be best to read someone like Stratton before reading Bradford to better understand him when we do read his history, but by all means we all ought to read Bradford.

I was also going to cite the same words of Bradford, but Harlow beat me to it. A similar description of events is in "Mourt's Relation" (authorship unproven). "Mourt" says that after they found the corn "We were in suspense what to do with it and the kettle, and at length, after much consultation, we concluded to take the kettle and as much of the corn as we could carry away with us; and when our shallop came, if we could find any of the people, and come to parley with them, we would give them the kettle again, and satisfy them for their corn." Several attempts were made to contact the Indians, but they fled when they were sighted. Later they even met with some opposition. Jim Bullock Littleton, CO -----Original Message----- From: Harlow Chandler [mailto:chandler@firstva.com] Sent: Sunday, November 24, 2002 2:37 PM To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: RE: [MFLR] RE: Pilgrims and their seed corn . . . Bradford says they intended to pay for the corn when the opportunity came, and six moths later it did and Bradford says the Indians were paid "to their good content." . . .

Thank you for the mathematical explanations regarding the 35 million figure for how many Mayflower descendants there are. And the "emotional support" for not feeling special when 14 - 15 % of the population can make the same claim, being a Mayflower Descendant, that is. I would have thought that there were less than 35 million ... I guess everyone else had that figure in mind? Oh well. Some good posts lately! __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com