Helen, I really appreciate your passing this along. I don't know how much I might be able to learn from these records but I would like to inquire about obtaining the records on an individual in my tree. One thing you did not mention was the cost associated with obtaining record copies from this source. Is there a cost? THANKS!! Rick -----Original Message----- From: Helkbenter@aol.com [mailto:Helkbenter@aol.com] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 11:28 PM To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MFLR] Creative Documentation Susan Roser always has good advice. thanks susan. She encouraged me, when some things were "just not in existence". Neither my mother or father had birth certificates. I had always known my mother had none, but my father did! It just was no longer available for some unknown reason. I had an old report card of my mother's, signed by her mother (the line carrier) each quarter. I also had no proof of her father's birth, or death, though I have my grandmother's copy of the marriage registration (1899). But, my grandfather was a civilian employee of the US govt, and so had a personnel file on record. The office in St. Louis, headquarters, sent me a copy of his whole file, from his appplication in his own hand, with birth date and location, to the letter by his superior to the Dept. of Agriculture reporting his death, with the date. I also had in my possession a copy of one of my father's promotion application as a civilian employee. Actually I had 2 copies, his draft in his own hand - an original, and a copy of the typed one he had submitted. On this he stated he was born in Los Angeles, CA on May 29, 1905. My mother and father both had Death Certificates, with parents names. But, the personnel files confirmed much more. Here is the address: National Personnel Records Center civilian Personnel Records 111 Winnebago Street St. Louis, MO 63118-4199 Hope this helps someone. I am still stuck on proving one birth ca. 1780 in MA, for 3 more lines. I have not found that they registered any of their children. Helen Benter ______________________________