In a message dated 12/12/2006 2:06:17 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Actually, I'm having a problem with what you wrote above. I think you need to find a source for the death date (1697) you show for Patience Faunce, the first wife of John Holmes. I find nothing to support this. It was John Holmes who died in 1697, as found in [MD 16:63] "John Holmes Senior deceased on the last of July 1697" Pam: You are probably correct regarding the date of death. Sometimes I have a wee bit of trouble deciphering articles that appear in The Register, such as the one on The Faunce Family written by James Freer Faunce that appeared in Vol. 114:115-125 April 1960 in the section of the article that is listing the children, and specifically the citation for Patience which reads: Patience, m. in Plymouth, 20 Nov 1661, John Holmes, d. in 1697. I don't know why the author couldn't have put words, such as "who died" if the death is referring to John and not Priscilla. It's called "clarity". I guess one of these days I'll be able to read with some intelligence <grin> these darn journals! I worked for an attorney a few years ago and she kept saying over and over and over "clarity, clarity, clarity!" She would write her pleadings and/or letters and would hammer home her point at least three times in three separate paragraphs written three different ways to say the same thing. Her reasoning: If you read it once and missed it, and you read it again the second time and missed it, you should get it the third time, so if you miss it the third time, there must be something wrong with your brain that you can't grasp what she said. There was no excuse for missing what she said. But then, I don't think she ever read any of the Register articles! just legal case law! So, based on what you just wrote, I'm going to move the death date of 1697 from Patience to John and now things should fall into place a bit better. Thanks. Also, to Dale, thanks for the reference by Stratton. I'll re-read that section again and add it as a reference source. I read that book a couple of years ago and then went through it name by name, but perhaps at the time I didn't have John Holmes in my database nor Patience Faunce, so I may have by-passed the names at that time. "[MD 25:30-35] A series of Plymouth deeds shows that Patience Bonham was the daughter of George and Sarah Bonham, the mother of Ruhamah Willis who married Ebenezer Rogers, and that after the death of Richard Willis, she married a Holmes." Okay, I have this entry in my database. One of the problems I had in making a connection to Patience Bonham and John Holmes was the fact that in my database I came across, at a later date, the information from the Silver vol. 18 regarding Ruhamah Willis and Eleazer Rogers and it had, I believe, Patience's surname spelled as Bonum not as Bonham. This is one way duplications in surnames can be made - different spellings, yet the same person. I'm now going to merge the two spellings for Patience into one file, which will now leave only one other person named Bonum in my records, and leads to the next question. I have the other Bonum entry as Elizabeth who married Ichabod Nye. Elizabeth died after 22 Sept 1719 in Middleboro. Is she related to Patience? I have no parents for Elizabeth. Perhaps the Stratten book might clear the air. I hope so, but if someone else knows, please let me know. I had written in my query the following: "Mayflower 18:1:70 says Sarah was baptized 1690 and daughter of John and >> Patience (Bonham) Holmes and that is a given." Pam wrote back and said: "<This is from "Mayflower" what? I looked in the Mayflower Descendant, Volume 18, on page 70 and/or 170, but could find no such baptismal record. Could you please be more specific.> To explain - I had written this message to another individual, then when I started to question the dates, I told that individual I would copy what I had written and send it to the Mayflower list. The person to whom I was writing understood me when I wrote Mayflower 18, which probably did confuse those on the list. I apologize. It is a reference to the Silver books Volume 18 which covers Richard Warren. I suppose that in my mind everyone on the list would have figured out I was talking about the silver books and not Mayflower Descendant. I don't have access to the Mayflower Descendant and I think, if I had, I would have referred to it by the initials "MD" as I believe most people understand that to mean Mayflower Descendant. So, again, I apologize for any confusion by my reference referred to as Mayflower 18. I hope this clarifies what I wrote and I suppose I need to follow my own rules for clarity too. Christie Trapp