Hi Mike, My concern is about privacy. When you stop and think about it, there are so many ways that could pop up in which it could be used for purposes other than honest genealogy. I don't necessarily mean for crime investigation only, but for personal reasons which some people would just as soon not want known. I think of adopted people, who were put up for adoption with the understanding that the natural parents would remain unknown. If an adoptee wanted to push hard enough to find out and had suspicions that certain people were his/her natural parents - could the attorney get permission from a judge to to access the DNA records? Granted there may be medical reasons for wanting to know, and I have very mixed feelings about tracking the natural parents down . Very severe medical problems could occur to them if suddenly they are confronted with such news. Maybe a life is at stake and unbeknownst to them. another may be at stake. Then there may be adoptees who are after money they believe they are entitled to. I get very confused when thinking about the posiblities - there are pros and cons to both. I guess it is up to the individuals involved to make the decisions for themselves. Fortunately, I don't have anything to be worried about but do wonder about what could happen to others. Thanks for the information - I wasn't aware of some of it. Barbara ----- Original Message ----- From: <mayflower-request@rootsweb.com> To: <mayflower@rootsweb.com> Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 10:08 PM Subject: MAYFLOWER Digest, Vol 3, Issue 105 > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. DNA question (scanbar) > 2. Re: DNA question (Mike More) > 3. Re: DNA question (knwill@juno.com) > 4. Re: DNA question (Stuart Perkins) > 5. Re: Mayflower and DNA (Dianna Saario) > 6. Re: Mayflower and DNA (Polly Hall-Burley) > 7. Re: Mayflower and DNA (Dianna Saario) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:45:53 -0400 > From: "scanbar" <scanbar@prodigy.net> > Subject: [MFLR] DNA question > To: <mayflower@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <53A8BF29BD994FFA989BAFCACBF00BAD@D41760C1> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > I have been trying to find the answer to the following question but never > get an answer. Maybe this list has one. > > How available are the DNA results to others? Specifically, do they go > into an national DNA bank or are they avaiable to any government agency > that requests them? What if a judge requests them? > > If all of the above are answered, yes, I can see a great deal of trouble > on the hoizon. What if an adopted child gets an order from a judge to get > the DNA for whatever purposes? What if a crime is involved in some way - > this can wash both ways so the question should be moot. > > I could expand upon this but leave it to the listers to just think about > it. > > Thank you > Barbara > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 11:08:55 -0400 > From: "Mike More" <mikemore@rogers.com> > Subject: Re: [MFLR] DNA question > To: <mayflower@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <003601c8ed9f$31760420$0202fea9@MDG> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > You are confusing the DNA tests for genealogy with those done for other > purposes. They are not the same test. I suppose that a crime lab could use > the same sample for their own testing purposes but that assumes that they > can get the sample and that it has not deteriorated and that the company > has > actually kept it. (I have given two samples: one by scraping the inside of > my mouth and the second by rinsing with a solution). > > Every company claims that they will keep the results confidential. I don't > know if that would hold up in a court of law. But since I have listed mine > on a number of websites in the hopes of finding a cousin, I really don't > worry about it. Why keep it a secret when it is another tool of > genealogists. > > As I said in my earlier message, there are only two types of DNA results > for > genealogy at this time: Y-DNA which males receive from their fathers and > mt-DNA which all children receive from their mothers, but is only passed > down by the daughters. So anyone fining my y-DNA at a crime site could > only > prove that it came from somebody related to me on the male side, i.e. > descended from one of my paternal ancestors. And the ladies don't even > have > to worry about that as you have no y-DNA. And even that is is fairly > loose. > I have now had my y-DNA tested out to 37 markers; I have 357 exact matches > at 25 markers (an earlier test) but none of those are even close at 37 > markers. Similarly, my mt-DNA would be the same as my sisters, their > daughters, grand-daughters, maternal aunts and every other female up my > maternal line. > > If you are contemplating a life of crime, the cops are much more likely to > find you with other means that your genealogical DNA. > > Mike More > mikemore@rogers.com > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of scanbar > Sent: July 24, 2008 7:46 AM > To: mayflower@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MFLR] DNA question > > > I have been trying to find the answer to the following question but never > get an answer. Maybe this list has one. > > How available are the DNA results to others? Specifically, do they go > into > an national DNA bank or are they avaiable to any government agency that > requests them? What if a judge requests them? > > If all of the above are answered, yes, I can see a great deal of trouble > on > the hoizon. What if an adopted child gets an order from a judge to get > the > DNA for whatever purposes? What if a crime is involved in some way - this > can wash both ways so the question should be moot. > > I could expand upon this but leave it to the listers to just think about > it. > > Thank you > Barbara > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page > for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 09:52:09 -0700 > From: knwill@juno.com > Subject: Re: [MFLR] DNA question > To: mayflower@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <20080724.095213.3608.3.knwill@juno.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > My suggestion is to watch Roots Television on the Internet if you are > able to via your hook up > and watch Megan Smolenyak Smolenyak interview on if she married her > cousin. She explains in detail what will be found and what will not be > found from the "junk DNA" that genealogy companies use for their testing. > I am certain that after listening and possible reading her book, your > mind will be at rest. > > http://www.rootstelevision.com/ > Home page > > http://www.rootstelevision.com/players/player_dna.php?bctid=1370845208 > Specific program. > > > > > On Thu, 24 Jul 2008 07:45:53 -0400 "scanbar" <scanbar@prodigy.net> > writes: >> I have been trying to find the answer to the following question but >> never get an answer. Maybe this list has one. >> >> How available are the DNA results to others? Specifically, do they >> go into an national DNA bank or are they avaiable to any government >> agency that requests them? What if a judge requests them? >> >> If all of the above are answered, yes, I can see a great deal of >> trouble on the hoizon. What if an adopted child gets an order from >> a judge to get the DNA for whatever purposes? What if a crime is >> involved in some way - this can wash both ways so the question >> should be moot. >> >> I could expand upon this but leave it to the listers to just think >> about it. >> >> Thank you >> Barbara >> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ >> page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > > ____________________________________________________________ > You Have 3 New Flings! > 3 people want to have a FLING with you! View Your Flings! > http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/JKFkuJi7W5HpZEeU7NewQGshxEaPVKimujaq3Qr7MnWkuMq6Vu3BXf/ > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 10:22:27 -0500 > From: Stuart Perkins <stuartperkins@usa.net> > Subject: Re: [MFLR] DNA question > To: mayflower@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <1216912947.6459.47.camel@perkins-ubu> > Content-Type: text/plain > > Police have been known to use genealogy DNA to find near relatives, > which have then led to stake-outs and capture of fugitives...so it is > definitely not out of the question...but still not an immediate concern, > even if I were criminally inclined. > > The mtDNA database is a lot newer than the Y-DNA database, and as such > has a lot fewer records. Also, it is not as easy to assume a possible > relationship, as marriage records must be known to identify the surname > of the mother at each generation. I made a "leap of faith" effort at a > match to a 5th cousin, once removed, that would not have been made if we > didn't carry the same surname. Obviously, at least a rumor of a > relationship has to exist to make the surname jumps at every generation > needed to follow an mtDNA chain, so I doubt that that particular > database will grow to near the Y-DNA databases size anytime soon. > - > Stuart Perkins > stuartperkins@usa.net > > > > On Thu, 2008-07-24 at 11:08 -0400, Mike More wrote: >> You are confusing the DNA tests for genealogy with those done for other >> purposes. They are not the same test. I suppose that a crime lab could >> use >> the same sample for their own testing purposes but that assumes that they >> can get the sample and that it has not deteriorated and that the company >> has >> actually kept it. (I have given two samples: one by scraping the inside >> of >> my mouth and the second by rinsing with a solution). >> >> Every company claims that they will keep the results confidential. I >> don't >> know if that would hold up in a court of law. But since I have listed >> mine >> on a number of websites in the hopes of finding a cousin, I really don't >> worry about it. Why keep it a secret when it is another tool of >> genealogists. >> >> As I said in my earlier message, there are only two types of DNA results >> for >> genealogy at this time: Y-DNA which males receive from their fathers and >> mt-DNA which all children receive from their mothers, but is only passed >> down by the daughters. So anyone fining my y-DNA at a crime site could >> only >> prove that it came from somebody related to me on the male side, i.e. >> descended from one of my paternal ancestors. And the ladies don't even >> have >> to worry about that as you have no y-DNA. And even that is is fairly >> loose. >> I have now had my y-DNA tested out to 37 markers; I have 357 exact >> matches >> at 25 markers (an earlier test) but none of those are even close at 37 >> markers. Similarly, my mt-DNA would be the same as my sisters, their >> daughters, grand-daughters, maternal aunts and every other female up my >> maternal line. >> >> If you are contemplating a life of crime, the cops are much more likely >> to >> find you with other means that your genealogical DNA. >> >> Mike More >> mikemore@rogers.com >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of scanbar >> Sent: July 24, 2008 7:46 AM >> To: mayflower@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [MFLR] DNA question >> >> >> I have been trying to find the answer to the following question but never >> get an answer. Maybe this list has one. >> >> How available are the DNA results to others? Specifically, do they go >> into >> an national DNA bank or are they avaiable to any government agency that >> requests them? What if a judge requests them? >> >> If all of the above are answered, yes, I can see a great deal of trouble >> on >> the hoizon. What if an adopted child gets an order from a judge to get >> the >> DNA for whatever purposes? What if a crime is involved in some way - >> this >> can wash both ways so the question should be moot. >> >> I could expand upon this but leave it to the listers to just think about >> it. >> >> Thank you >> Barbara >> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page >> for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page >> for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 12:04:11 -0700 > From: "Dianna Saario" <dsaario@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower and DNA > To: <mayflower@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <00d701c8edc0$0f5aece0$6401a8c0@DiggingUpRoots> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Recently a cousin of mine Robert Soule was tested for DNA, he is the 10th > generation from George Soule. He was a match, which proves that the 10th > generation holds up. The thinking was that only 9th generation was > viable. > So now his sons are being tested to see how the 11th generation holds up. > Exciting information is out there. I also know that testing for Jane > Cooke > is now being gathered via the mt-DNA mother to daughter. If interested > let > me know.. > > Dianna Saario > Francis Cooke Society > Membership Chairwoman > 6th & 7th Francis Cooke Generations Project Compiler > 1449 E. Vassar Dr. > Visalia, CA 93292 > dsaario@comcast.net > http://franciscookesociety.org > 11th generation from Francis Cooke. > ************ > Registrar, Historian and Past Treasurer > Mayflower Society of CA Descendents > San Joaquin Colony > ************* > Alden (Mullins), Allerton, Brewster, Cooke, Eaton, Hopkins, Priest, > Rogers, > Soule, Standish, (posssible Warren) > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 13:16:43 -0600 > From: Polly Hall-Burley <phburley@mac.com> > Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower and DNA > To: mayflower@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <0cacb5de3d76720b38032af76c3f8f35@mac.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed > > Diana, > > Which Robert Soule? > > I'm also descended through George Soule and have a cousin, Robert - who > lives in Michigan. I'd be interested to know if it's the same Robert > Soule as I'll be up there in a few weeks. > > Regards, > > Polly Hall-Burley > > On Jul 24, 2008, at 1:04 PM, Dianna Saario wrote: > >> Recently a cousin of mine Robert Soule was tested for DNA, he is the >> 10th >> generation from George Soule. He was a match, which proves that the >> 10th >> generation holds up. The thinking was that only 9th generation was >> viable. >> So now his sons are being tested to see how the 11th generation holds >> up. >> Exciting information is out there. I also know that testing for Jane >> Cooke >> is now being gathered via the mt-DNA mother to daughter. If >> interested let >> me know.. >> >> Dianna Saario >> Francis Cooke Society >> Membership Chairwoman >> 6th & 7th Francis Cooke Generations Project Compiler >> 1449 E. Vassar Dr. >> Visalia, CA 93292 >> dsaario@comcast.net >> http://franciscookesociety.org >> 11th generation from Francis Cooke. >> ************ >> Registrar, Historian and Past Treasurer >> Mayflower Society of CA Descendents >> San Joaquin Colony >> ************* >> Alden (Mullins), Allerton, Brewster, Cooke, Eaton, Hopkins, Priest, >> Rogers, >> Soule, Standish, (posssible Warren) >> >> >> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ >> page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 24 Jul 2008 19:09:53 -0700 > From: "Dianna Saario" <dsaario@comcast.net> > Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower and DNA > To: <mayflower@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <000e01c8edfb$87c29670$6401a8c0@DiggingUpRoots> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > No, this Robert Soule lives in Fresno, CA.. You can tell him I would love > to see his genealogy line. If you want to talk to him, let me know and > I'll > check with him. He is having some problems remembering, but not the stuff > that happened long ago. Our Soule's came from MA to OH his family went > to > OR then CA and mine went to IL to CA. > My great grandmother's name was Georgie(a) May Soule, she married Charles > Hurdle in IL.. It is a great story.... > > Dianna > Digging Up Roots > > -----Original Message----- > From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com > [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Polly Hall-Burley > Sent: Thursday, July 24, 2008 12:17 PM > To: mayflower@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower and DNA > > Diana, > > Which Robert Soule? > > I'm also descended through George Soule and have a cousin, Robert - who > lives in Michigan. I'd be interested to know if it's the same Robert > Soule as I'll be up there in a few weeks. > > Regards, > > Polly Hall-Burley > > On Jul 24, 2008, at 1:04 PM, Dianna Saario wrote: > >> Recently a cousin of mine Robert Soule was tested for DNA, he is the >> 10th >> generation from George Soule. He was a match, which proves that the >> 10th >> generation holds up. The thinking was that only 9th generation was >> viable. >> So now his sons are being tested to see how the 11th generation holds >> up. >> Exciting information is out there. I also know that testing for Jane >> Cooke >> is now being gathered via the mt-DNA mother to daughter. If >> interested let >> me know.. >> >> Dianna Saario >> Francis Cooke Society >> Membership Chairwoman >> 6th & 7th Francis Cooke Generations Project Compiler >> 1449 E. Vassar Dr. >> Visalia, CA 93292 >> dsaario@comcast.net >> http://franciscookesociety.org >> 11th generation from Francis Cooke. >> ************ >> Registrar, Historian and Past Treasurer >> Mayflower Society of CA Descendents >> San Joaquin Colony >> ************* >> Alden (Mullins), Allerton, Brewster, Cooke, Eaton, Hopkins, Priest, >> Rogers, >> Soule, Standish, (posssible Warren) >> >> >> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ >> page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page > for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the MAYFLOWER list administrator, send an email to > MAYFLOWER-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the MAYFLOWER mailing list, send an email to > MAYFLOWER@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of MAYFLOWER Digest, Vol 3, Issue 105 > *****************************************

Barbara, I understand your concerns and I agree that it is a personal choice. There is no way to guarantee that some future government will not try to make use of the information. But the same can be said for much of the information that we compile as genealogists. In my understanding of the DNA tests for genealogy, there are much better ways of getting the information. Even with your example of adoption. A male would be able to determine his y-DNA and mt-DNA. He could then search the database to find a couple that matched. That assumes that they have had their DNA tested and were actually linked in the database, so that he would know they were a "couple". And assumes that they are not related to the actual parents, admittedly probably unlikely, although I have several cases in my family tree where brothers married sisters. Unless everyone has their DNA results included in the database, it would be impossible to confirm a relationship. I don't know the odds but I suspect that it is not "beyond a reasonable doubt". However a woman looking for her parents only has the mt-DNA to trace as she does not inherit y-DNA from her father. She would thus only find any women who shared her maternal ancestry. I agree that both results would probably narrow down the possible parents but wouldn't it be much easier for the judge to simply order a standard paternity/maternity test which would prove things beyond any doubt? As I mentioned earlier, I have had my DNA tested in the hopes that I will find others who are related. I admit that it would be a shock to find out that my ancestors were not the ones that I have spent so much time documenting. I would be really disappointed if I had to prune off a branch of my pedigree chart. But I know that I have some "non paternal events" in my family tree and they do not bother me. I would be much happier if my DNA tests would actually confirm some of my paper trail. Particularly as the lack of any DNA matches seems to indicate that my recent ancestors are aliens from another planet :-) Mike More mikemore@rogers.com -----Original Message----- From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of scanbar Sent: July 25, 2008 9:49 AM To: mayflower@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MFLR] MAYFLOWER Digest, Vol 3, Issue 105 Hi Mike, My concern is about privacy. When you stop and think about it, there are so many ways that could pop up in which it could be used for purposes other than honest genealogy. I don't necessarily mean for crime investigation only, but for personal reasons which some people would just as soon not want known. I think of adopted people, who were put up for adoption with the understanding that the natural parents would remain unknown. If an adoptee wanted to push hard enough to find out and had suspicions that certain people were his/her natural parents - could the attorney get permission from a judge to to access the DNA records? Granted there may be medical reasons for wanting to know, and I have very mixed feelings about tracking the natural parents down . Very severe medical problems could occur to them if suddenly they are confronted with such news. Maybe a life is at stake and unbeknownst to them. another may be at stake. Then there may be adoptees who are after money they believe they are entitled to. I get very confused when thinking about the posiblities - there are pros and cons to both. I guess it is up to the individuals involved to make the decisions for themselves. Fortunately, I don't have anything to be worried about but do wonder about what could happen to others. Thanks for the information - I wasn't aware of some of it. Barbara