I see! You are right, it makes perfect sense that way. He was saying " I find it amazing and [worthily] distaste/ful/" ( I can't believe you guys did that!!). Someone else wrote to suggest that wonderful meant 'full of wonder' and immediately I knew she was right, but I still couldn't quite get 'worthily distasted', even though it is obvious to me now. [kind of slow on the uptake, I guess] :-) A glossary would be a fabulous thing in any book that reproduces Bradford's work or any of the other writings of that time period. Thanks for clearing that up. Bangsflynn@cs.com wrote: > It's a nice example, because it doesn't involve any old-fashioned spelling. > "wonderful" here indicates something like one way people now use "amazing" - and not implying something positive. It's wonderful in the sense of inspiring much wonder (like, what the hell were you guys thinking?), and then "worthily distasted" is consistent with that sentiment and not in contradiction to it. > However, if an editor were to put in "what the hell were you guys thinking?" it might be clearer, but it would no longer be Bradford. > nice problem. > Although I haven't seen it, I think that Caleb Johnson has produced a modern (but not modernized) full edition of Bradford in order, and that's likely to be the best available text for ordinary use. It might have a glossary, but I don't know. > > Jeremy Bangs > Leiden > > > > Linda Smith <smit8698@bellsouth.net> wrote: > > >> Thanks for the tip about the Morison book. I haven't seen it, of >> course, but if Jeremy is accurate in his assessment of it, then I would >> agree that it would have been much better to keep it in order just like >> Bradford wrote it. However, if one keeps that in mind and tries to use >> it for reference, it should be a lot of help. It isn't just the >> spelling that is difficult for me; it is the phraseology and the old >> manner of speaking. An example is the sentence from 'one of Mr. >> Weston's letters' : "That you sent no lading in the ship is wonderful, >> and worthily distasted." I believe he is referring to the fact that the >> Mayflower returned to England without being loaded with goods for the >> merchant adventurers, but I still don't understand that sentence. >> 'Wonderful' and 'worthily distasted' seem contradictory to me, so it >> doesn't make sense. . Undoubtedly, that's because I am unfamiliar with >> how those words and phrases were used in the 17th century. There are >> many phrases such as that which contain old terminology that is lost in >> today's vernacular. I wish someone would translate it in the proper >> order, text, etc., just like it was meant to be read, but with today's >> language, spelling, and grammar. >> I wish also that someone would translate the Robinson sermons and other >> related materials the same way. I think it would help a lot in >> understanding the mindset of the day, which, (I agree with Jeremy) was >> VERY important and contains lessons that we would do well to pay >> attention to and learn from today. It could be done in a book in which >> the old and new were side by side, even, so it could be easily >> referenced if desired. At any rate, I'm probably wishing for the moon >> ..... >> >> Thanks again for the Morison tip; I shall purchase a copy! >> >> Bangsflynn@cs.com wrote: >> >>> Samuel Eliot Morison considered the Pilgrims "of slight importance in their own time." He also proclaimed that “The insignificance of the Plymouth Colony in the colonial era is one {issue} upon which almost all American historians are agreed.” >>> >>> (I happen to be in the minority not in agreement there.) >>> >>> His view explains why he re-arranged the text of Bradford's history Of Plymouth Plantation, placing over a quarter of it at the end, thus destroying Bradford's narrative order and explicitly indicating that the religious and financial history Bradford found significant was in Morison's view uninteresting to the modern reader. >>> >>> I haven't decided yet whether or not to modernize the spelling of quotations that will be included in my book on the Pilgrims. I prefer retaining the old spelling. But some people find the barrier that this creates to be off-putting. There is, I think, some value in taking the effort to become familiar with the ways of speech (and thought) that the Pilgrims familiarly used. On the other hand, a friend of mine who is an expert on this period and has both written about it and edited manuscripts thinks that it is in keeping with the spirit of the seventeenth century to modernize the spelling in order, like the Pilgrims, to attempt to tell the story in a plain style. >>> >>> He may be right. But Morison was not, in editing the presentation all out of shape. >>> And to make it worse, the paperback version that most college students read, omits all the material Morison put at the end in appendices. >>> cheers, >>> >>> jeremy bangs >>> >>> leiden >>> >>> >>> >>> Robert Gerrity <yankeeancestry@hotmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> >>> >>>> For just the reasons you raise, Adm. S E Morison, long U S history professor at Harvard, "translated" the text into readable modern English. His notes are excellent. Copies can be readily found on eBay & amazon, both hardcover & trade paperback. I would agree with you that reading this version first allows you experience a modern conversation, but it is onemediated through Morison's style. Still, you can zip along! >>>> >>>> The listing below is one example from Abebooks: >>>> >>>> Of Plymouth Plantation 1620-1647 >>>> By William Bradford >>>> edited by Samuel Eliot Morison >>>> >>>> Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Hard Cover. Book Condition: Excellent. Dust Jacket Condition: Good. 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. Publisher: Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Book is in excellent condition, owner signed name on first page. DJ is in good condition, some edgewear and a few tears. This is a New Edition: The Complete Text, with Notes and an Introduction by Samuel Eliot Morison. >>>> >>>> Robert M. Gerrity >>>> YANKEE ANCESTRY >>>> P. O. Box 2814 >>>> Acton, MA 01720 >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 13:51:20 -0600 >>>>> From: smit8698@bellsouth.net >>>>> To: mayflower@rootsweb.com >>>>> Subject: [MFLR] Question about William Bradford's book >>>>> >>>>> Hello list, >>>>> >>>>> I would like to know if there is, to anyone's knowledge a >>>>> 'contemporary' version, or translation, for lack of a better word, of >>>>> William Bradford's book >>>>> "Of Plymouth Plantation". I have two of the printed versions, and they >>>>> are true to the old language, spelling, etc. That's all well and good, >>>>> of course, but I am finding it very tedious to read. Some of it is more >>>>> easily understood than the rest, but I find I have to read and re-read >>>>> parts of it many times to get the 'gist' of what he is saying. It's >>>>> kind of like the King James version of the Bible; while it is readable, >>>>> some of it is difficult to decipher because the language is so different >>>>> from our modern tongue. I really want to understand all this book has >>>>> to say, and I am not sure I am doing that at this point. Please let me >>>>> know if there is such a book out there. If there's not, all you >>>>> scholars, historians, and writers out there should think about taking on >>>>> such a project. I for one would buy it! >>>>> >>>>> Thanks, >>>>> >>>>> Linda >>>>> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >>>>> ------------------------------- >>>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>>> >>>>> >>>> _________________________________________________________________ >>>> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. >>>> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 >>>> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>>> >>>> >>> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Linda, I've only ever used the 1890s edition. I was not aware that the Admiral subjected it to such a radical reorganization. Still, despite his prejudice--his popular narrative best-seller was called Builders of the Bay Colony so you can see his bias--it is a readable text. Buy the hardcover for appendices and notes. Now I don't find Bradford that hard to read but then I've read a lot of that stuff anyway. Your comment on Mr Weston's sentence shows you've actually understood what he's "saying" re use of contradictory words, you've just forgotten the word. Its called sarcasm. Mr. Weston was being sarcastic as he had every right to in this instance. "Debts Hopeful & Desperate" they had indeed. A true modern scholarly edition with fuller notes and emendations etc which respected Bradford's style would indeed be welcome. But I didn't have that career so its not on my To-Do list.Robert M. GerrityYANKEE ANCESTRYP. O. Box 2814Acton, MA 01720> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 16:48:29 -0600> From: smit8698@bellsouth.net> To: mayflower@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [MFLR] MORISON--> Query re Bradford's book> Thanks for the tip about the Morison book. I haven't seen it, of course, but if Jeremy is accurate in his assessment of it, then I would agree that it would have been much better to keep it in order just like Bradford wrote it. However, if one keeps that in mind and tries to use it for reference, it should be a lot of help. It isn't just the spelling that is difficult for me; it is the phraseology and the old manner of speaking. An example is the sentence from 'one of Mr. Weston's letters' : "That you sent no lading in the ship is wonderful, and worthily distasted." I believe he is referring to the fact that the Mayflower returned to England without being loaded with goods for the merchant adventurers, but I still don't understand that sentence. 'Wonderful' and 'worthily distasted' seem contradictory to me, so it doesn't make sense. . Undoubtedly, that's because I am unfamiliar with how those words and phrases were used in the 17th century. There are many phrases such as that which contain old terminology that is lost in today's vernacular. I wish someone would translate it in the proper order, text, etc., just like it was meant to be read, but with today's language, spelling, and grammar. I wish also that someone would translate the Robinson sermons and other related materials the same way. I think it would help a lot in understanding the mindset of the day, which, (I agree with Jeremy) was VERY important and contains lessons that we would do well to pay attention to and learn from today. It could be done in a book in which the old and new were side by side, even, so it could be easily referenced if desired. At any rate, I'm probably wishing for the moon Thanks again for the Morison tip; I shall purchase a copy!> > Bangsflynn@cs.com wrote:> > Samuel Eliot Morison considered the Pilgrims "of slight importance in their own time." He also proclaimed that “The insignificance of the Plymouth Colony in the colonial era is one {issue} upon which almost all American historians are agreed.”> >> > (I happen to be in the minority not in agreement there.)> >> > His view explains why he re-arranged the text of Bradford's history Of Plymouth Plantation, placing over a quarter of it at the end, thus destroying Bradford's narrative order and explicitly indicating that the religious and financial history Bradford found significant was in Morison's view uninteresting to the modern reader.> >> > I haven't decided yet whether or not to modernize the spelling of quotations that will be included in my book on the Pilgrims. I prefer retaining the old spelling. But some people find the barrier that this creates to be off-putting. There is, I think, some value in taking the effort to become familiar with the ways of speech (and thought) that the Pilgrims familiarly used. On the other hand, a friend of mine who is an expert on this period and has both written about it and edited manuscripts thinks that it is in keeping with the spirit of the seventeenth century to modernize the spelling in order, like the Pilgrims, to attempt to tell the story in a plain style.> >> > He may be right. But Morison was not, in editing the presentation all out of shape.> > And to make it worse, the paperback version that most college students read, omits all the material Morison put at the end in appendices.> > cheers,> >> > jeremy bangs _________________________________________________________________ Shed those extra pounds with MSN and The Biggest Loser! http://biggestloser.msn.com/

smit8698@bellsouth.net wrote: >>An example is the sentence from 'one of Mr. Weston's letters' :  "That you sent no lading in the ship is wonderful, and worthily distasted."  I believe he is referring to the fact that the Mayflower returned to England without being loaded with goods for the merchant adventurers, but I still don't understand that sentence.  'Wonderful' and 'worthily distasted' seem contradictory to me, so it doesn't make sense.<< Linda ~ it's just a guess on my part, but I wound take wonderful to mean "it is a wonder to me" in this useage, and not meaning wonderful in the sense we mean it today.....just a thought for what it may be worth. Dianne ************** Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)

What about the version edited by Caleb Johnson? Do you recommend that? Thanks, Patricia Jobe Samuel Eliot Morison considered the Pilgrims "of slight importance in their own time." He also proclaimed that “The insignificance of the Plymouth Colony in the colonial era is one {issue} upon which almost all American historians are agreed.” (I happen to be in the minority not in agreement there.) His view explains why he re-arranged the text of Bradford's history Of Plymouth Plantation, placing over a quarter of it at the end, thus destroying Bradford's narrative order and explicitly indicating that the religious and financial history Bradford found significant was in Morison's view uninteresting to the modern reader. I haven't decided yet whether or not to modernize the spelling of quotations that will be included in my book on the Pilgrims. I prefer retaining the old spelling. But some people find the barrier that this creates to be off-putting. There is, I think, some value in taking the effort to become familiar with the ways of speech (and thought) that the Pilgrims familiarly used. On the other hand, a friend of mine who is an expert on this period and has both written about it and edited manuscripts thinks that it is in keeping with the spirit of the seventeenth century to modernize the spelling in order, like the Pilgrims, to attempt to tell the story in a plain style. He may be right. But Morison was not, in editing the presentation all out of shape. And to make it worse, the paperback version that most college students read, omits all the material Morison put at the end in appendices. cheers, jeremy bangs leiden Robert Gerrity <yankeeancestry@hotmail.com> wrote: > >For just the reasons you raise, Adm. S E Morison, long U S history professor at Harvard, "translated" the text into readable modern English. His notes are excellent. Copies can be readily found on eBay & amazon, both hardcover & trade paperback. I would agree with you that reading this version first allows you experience a modern conversation, but it is onemediated through Morison's style. Still, you can zip along! > >The listing below is one example from Abebooks: > >Of Plymouth Plantation 1620-1647 >By William Bradford >edited by Samuel Eliot Morison > >Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Hard Cover. Book Condition: Excellent. Dust Jacket Condition: Good. 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. Publisher: Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Book is in excellent condition, owner signed name on first page. DJ is in good condition, some edgewear and a few tears. This is a New Edition: The Complete Text, with Notes and an Introduction by Samuel Eliot Morison. > >Robert M. Gerrity >YANKEE ANCESTRY >P. O. Box 2814 >Acton, MA 01720 > > >> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 13:51:20 -0600 >> From: smit8698@bellsouth.net >> To: mayflower@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [MFLR] Question about William Bradford's book >> >> Hello list, >> >> I would like to know if there is, to anyone's knowledge a >> 'contemporary' version, or translation, for lack of a better word, of >> William Bradford's book >> "Of Plymouth Plantation". I have two of the printed versions, and they >> are true to the old language, spelling, etc. That's all well and good, >> of course, but I am finding it very tedious to read. Some of it is more >> easily understood than the rest, but I find I have to read and re-read >> parts of it many times to get the 'gist' of what he is saying. It's >> kind of like the King James version of the Bible; while it is readable, >> some of it is difficult to decipher because the language is so different >> from our modern tongue. I really want to understand all this book has >> to say, and I am not sure I am doing that at this point. Please let me >> know if there is such a book out there. If there's not, all you >> scholars, historians, and writers out there should think about taking on >> such a project. I for one would buy it! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Linda >> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >_________________________________________________________________ >Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. >http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 >Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

For just the reasons you raise, Adm. S E Morison, long U S history professor at Harvard, "translated" the text into readable modern English. His notes are excellent. Copies can be readily found on eBay & amazon, both hardcover & trade paperback. I would agree with you that reading this version first allows you experience a modern conversation, but it is onemediated through Morison's style. Still, you can zip along! The listing below is one example from Abebooks: Of Plymouth Plantation 1620-1647 By William Bradford edited by Samuel Eliot Morison Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Hard Cover. Book Condition: Excellent. Dust Jacket Condition: Good. 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. Publisher: Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Book is in excellent condition, owner signed name on first page. DJ is in good condition, some edgewear and a few tears. This is a New Edition: The Complete Text, with Notes and an Introduction by Samuel Eliot Morison. Robert M. Gerrity YANKEE ANCESTRY P. O. Box 2814 Acton, MA 01720 > Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 13:51:20 -0600 > From: smit8698@bellsouth.net > To: mayflower@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MFLR] Question about William Bradford's book > > Hello list, > > I would like to know if there is, to anyone's knowledge a > 'contemporary' version, or translation, for lack of a better word, of > William Bradford's book > "Of Plymouth Plantation". I have two of the printed versions, and they > are true to the old language, spelling, etc. That's all well and good, > of course, but I am finding it very tedious to read. Some of it is more > easily understood than the rest, but I find I have to read and re-read > parts of it many times to get the 'gist' of what he is saying. It's > kind of like the King James version of the Bible; while it is readable, > some of it is difficult to decipher because the language is so different > from our modern tongue. I really want to understand all this book has > to say, and I am not sure I am doing that at this point. Please let me > know if there is such a book out there. If there's not, all you > scholars, historians, and writers out there should think about taking on > such a project. I for one would buy it! > > Thanks, > > Linda > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008

It's a nice example, because it doesn't involve any old-fashioned spelling. "wonderful" here indicates something like one way people now use "amazing" - and not implying something positive. It's wonderful in the sense of inspiring much wonder (like, what the hell were you guys thinking?), and then "worthily distasted" is consistent with that sentiment and not in contradiction to it. However, if an editor were to put in "what the hell were you guys thinking?" it might be clearer, but it would no longer be Bradford. nice problem. Although I haven't seen it, I think that Caleb Johnson has produced a modern (but not modernized) full edition of Bradford in order, and that's likely to be the best available text for ordinary use. It might have a glossary, but I don't know. Jeremy Bangs Leiden Linda Smith <smit8698@bellsouth.net> wrote: >Thanks for the tip about the Morison book. I haven't seen it, of >course, but if Jeremy is accurate in his assessment of it, then I would >agree that it would have been much better to keep it in order just like >Bradford wrote it. However, if one keeps that in mind and tries to use >it for reference, it should be a lot of help. It isn't just the >spelling that is difficult for me; it is the phraseology and the old >manner of speaking. An example is the sentence from 'one of Mr. >Weston's letters' : "That you sent no lading in the ship is wonderful, >and worthily distasted." I believe he is referring to the fact that the >Mayflower returned to England without being loaded with goods for the >merchant adventurers, but I still don't understand that sentence. >'Wonderful' and 'worthily distasted' seem contradictory to me, so it >doesn't make sense. . Undoubtedly, that's because I am unfamiliar with >how those words and phrases were used in the 17th century. There are >many phrases such as that which contain old terminology that is lost in >today's vernacular. I wish someone would translate it in the proper >order, text, etc., just like it was meant to be read, but with today's >language, spelling, and grammar. >I wish also that someone would translate the Robinson sermons and other >related materials the same way. I think it would help a lot in >understanding the mindset of the day, which, (I agree with Jeremy) was >VERY important and contains lessons that we would do well to pay >attention to and learn from today. It could be done in a book in which >the old and new were side by side, even, so it could be easily >referenced if desired. At any rate, I'm probably wishing for the moon >..... > >Thanks again for the Morison tip; I shall purchase a copy! > >Bangsflynn@cs.com wrote: >> Samuel Eliot Morison considered the Pilgrims "of slight importance in their own time." He also proclaimed that “The insignificance of the Plymouth Colony in the colonial era is one {issue} upon which almost all American historians are agreed.” >> >> (I happen to be in the minority not in agreement there.) >> >> His view explains why he re-arranged the text of Bradford's history Of Plymouth Plantation, placing over a quarter of it at the end, thus destroying Bradford's narrative order and explicitly indicating that the religious and financial history Bradford found significant was in Morison's view uninteresting to the modern reader. >> >> I haven't decided yet whether or not to modernize the spelling of quotations that will be included in my book on the Pilgrims. I prefer retaining the old spelling. But some people find the barrier that this creates to be off-putting. There is, I think, some value in taking the effort to become familiar with the ways of speech (and thought) that the Pilgrims familiarly used. On the other hand, a friend of mine who is an expert on this period and has both written about it and edited manuscripts thinks that it is in keeping with the spirit of the seventeenth century to modernize the spelling in order, like the Pilgrims, to attempt to tell the story in a plain style. >> >> He may be right. But Morison was not, in editing the presentation all out of shape. >> And to make it worse, the paperback version that most college students read, omits all the material Morison put at the end in appendices. >> cheers, >> >> jeremy bangs >> >> leiden >> >> >> >> Robert Gerrity <yankeeancestry@hotmail.com> wrote: >> >> >>> For just the reasons you raise, Adm. S E Morison, long U S history professor at Harvard, "translated" the text into readable modern English. His notes are excellent. Copies can be readily found on eBay & amazon, both hardcover & trade paperback. I would agree with you that reading this version first allows you experience a modern conversation, but it is onemediated through Morison's style. Still, you can zip along! >>> >>> The listing below is one example from Abebooks: >>> >>> Of Plymouth Plantation 1620-1647 >>> By William Bradford >>> edited by Samuel Eliot Morison >>> >>> Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Hard Cover. Book Condition: Excellent. Dust Jacket Condition: Good. 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. Publisher: Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Book is in excellent condition, owner signed name on first page. DJ is in good condition, some edgewear and a few tears. This is a New Edition: The Complete Text, with Notes and an Introduction by Samuel Eliot Morison. >>> >>> Robert M. Gerrity >>> YANKEE ANCESTRY >>> P. O. Box 2814 >>> Acton, MA 01720 >>> >>> >>> >>>> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 13:51:20 -0600 >>>> From: smit8698@bellsouth.net >>>> To: mayflower@rootsweb.com >>>> Subject: [MFLR] Question about William Bradford's book >>>> >>>> Hello list, >>>> >>>> I would like to know if there is, to anyone's knowledge a >>>> 'contemporary' version, or translation, for lack of a better word, of >>>> William Bradford's book >>>> "Of Plymouth Plantation". I have two of the printed versions, and they >>>> are true to the old language, spelling, etc. That's all well and good, >>>> of course, but I am finding it very tedious to read. Some of it is more >>>> easily understood than the rest, but I find I have to read and re-read >>>> parts of it many times to get the 'gist' of what he is saying. It's >>>> kind of like the King James version of the Bible; while it is readable, >>>> some of it is difficult to decipher because the language is so different >>>> from our modern tongue. I really want to understand all this book has >>>> to say, and I am not sure I am doing that at this point. Please let me >>>> know if there is such a book out there. If there's not, all you >>>> scholars, historians, and writers out there should think about taking on >>>> such a project. I for one would buy it! >>>> >>>> Thanks, >>>> >>>> Linda >>>> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >>>> ------------------------------- >>>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>>> >>> _________________________________________________________________ >>> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. >>> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 >>> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Samuel Eliot Morison considered the Pilgrims "of slight importance in their own time." He also proclaimed that “The insignificance of the Plymouth Colony in the colonial era is one {issue} upon which almost all American historians are agreed.” (I happen to be in the minority not in agreement there.) His view explains why he re-arranged the text of Bradford's history Of Plymouth Plantation, placing over a quarter of it at the end, thus destroying Bradford's narrative order and explicitly indicating that the religious and financial history Bradford found significant was in Morison's view uninteresting to the modern reader. I haven't decided yet whether or not to modernize the spelling of quotations that will be included in my book on the Pilgrims. I prefer retaining the old spelling. But some people find the barrier that this creates to be off-putting. There is, I think, some value in taking the effort to become familiar with the ways of speech (and thought) that the Pilgrims familiarly used. On the other hand, a friend of mine who is an expert on this period and has both written about it and edited manuscripts thinks that it is in keeping with the spirit of the seventeenth century to modernize the spelling in order, like the Pilgrims, to attempt to tell the story in a plain style. He may be right. But Morison was not, in editing the presentation all out of shape. And to make it worse, the paperback version that most college students read, omits all the material Morison put at the end in appendices. cheers, jeremy bangs leiden Robert Gerrity <yankeeancestry@hotmail.com> wrote: > >For just the reasons you raise, Adm. S E Morison, long U S history professor at Harvard, "translated" the text into readable modern English. His notes are excellent. Copies can be readily found on eBay & amazon, both hardcover & trade paperback. I would agree with you that reading this version first allows you experience a modern conversation, but it is onemediated through Morison's style. Still, you can zip along! > >The listing below is one example from Abebooks: > >Of Plymouth Plantation 1620-1647 >By William Bradford >edited by Samuel Eliot Morison > >Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Hard Cover. Book Condition: Excellent. Dust Jacket Condition: Good. 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. Publisher: Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Book is in excellent condition, owner signed name on first page. DJ is in good condition, some edgewear and a few tears. This is a New Edition: The Complete Text, with Notes and an Introduction by Samuel Eliot Morison. > >Robert M. Gerrity >YANKEE ANCESTRY >P. O. Box 2814 >Acton, MA 01720 > > >> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 13:51:20 -0600 >> From: smit8698@bellsouth.net >> To: mayflower@rootsweb.com >> Subject: [MFLR] Question about William Bradford's book >> >> Hello list, >> >> I would like to know if there is, to anyone's knowledge a >> 'contemporary' version, or translation, for lack of a better word, of >> William Bradford's book >> "Of Plymouth Plantation". I have two of the printed versions, and they >> are true to the old language, spelling, etc. That's all well and good, >> of course, but I am finding it very tedious to read. Some of it is more >> easily understood than the rest, but I find I have to read and re-read >> parts of it many times to get the 'gist' of what he is saying. It's >> kind of like the King James version of the Bible; while it is readable, >> some of it is difficult to decipher because the language is so different >> from our modern tongue. I really want to understand all this book has >> to say, and I am not sure I am doing that at this point. Please let me >> know if there is such a book out there. If there's not, all you >> scholars, historians, and writers out there should think about taking on >> such a project. I for one would buy it! >> >> Thanks, >> >> Linda >> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >_________________________________________________________________ >Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. >http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 >Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thanks for the tip about the Morison book. I haven't seen it, of course, but if Jeremy is accurate in his assessment of it, then I would agree that it would have been much better to keep it in order just like Bradford wrote it. However, if one keeps that in mind and tries to use it for reference, it should be a lot of help. It isn't just the spelling that is difficult for me; it is the phraseology and the old manner of speaking. An example is the sentence from 'one of Mr. Weston's letters' : "That you sent no lading in the ship is wonderful, and worthily distasted." I believe he is referring to the fact that the Mayflower returned to England without being loaded with goods for the merchant adventurers, but I still don't understand that sentence. 'Wonderful' and 'worthily distasted' seem contradictory to me, so it doesn't make sense. . Undoubtedly, that's because I am unfamiliar with how those words and phrases were used in the 17th century. There are many phrases such as that which contain old terminology that is lost in today's vernacular. I wish someone would translate it in the proper order, text, etc., just like it was meant to be read, but with today's language, spelling, and grammar. I wish also that someone would translate the Robinson sermons and other related materials the same way. I think it would help a lot in understanding the mindset of the day, which, (I agree with Jeremy) was VERY important and contains lessons that we would do well to pay attention to and learn from today. It could be done in a book in which the old and new were side by side, even, so it could be easily referenced if desired. At any rate, I'm probably wishing for the moon ..... Thanks again for the Morison tip; I shall purchase a copy! Bangsflynn@cs.com wrote: > Samuel Eliot Morison considered the Pilgrims "of slight importance in their own time." He also proclaimed that “The insignificance of the Plymouth Colony in the colonial era is one {issue} upon which almost all American historians are agreed.” > > (I happen to be in the minority not in agreement there.) > > His view explains why he re-arranged the text of Bradford's history Of Plymouth Plantation, placing over a quarter of it at the end, thus destroying Bradford's narrative order and explicitly indicating that the religious and financial history Bradford found significant was in Morison's view uninteresting to the modern reader. > > I haven't decided yet whether or not to modernize the spelling of quotations that will be included in my book on the Pilgrims. I prefer retaining the old spelling. But some people find the barrier that this creates to be off-putting. There is, I think, some value in taking the effort to become familiar with the ways of speech (and thought) that the Pilgrims familiarly used. On the other hand, a friend of mine who is an expert on this period and has both written about it and edited manuscripts thinks that it is in keeping with the spirit of the seventeenth century to modernize the spelling in order, like the Pilgrims, to attempt to tell the story in a plain style. > > He may be right. But Morison was not, in editing the presentation all out of shape. > And to make it worse, the paperback version that most college students read, omits all the material Morison put at the end in appendices. > cheers, > > jeremy bangs > > leiden > > > > Robert Gerrity <yankeeancestry@hotmail.com> wrote: > > >> For just the reasons you raise, Adm. S E Morison, long U S history professor at Harvard, "translated" the text into readable modern English. His notes are excellent. Copies can be readily found on eBay & amazon, both hardcover & trade paperback. I would agree with you that reading this version first allows you experience a modern conversation, but it is onemediated through Morison's style. Still, you can zip along! >> >> The listing below is one example from Abebooks: >> >> Of Plymouth Plantation 1620-1647 >> By William Bradford >> edited by Samuel Eliot Morison >> >> Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Hard Cover. Book Condition: Excellent. Dust Jacket Condition: Good. 8vo - over 7¾" - 9¾" tall. Publisher: Alfred A. Knopf, New York, 1953. Book is in excellent condition, owner signed name on first page. DJ is in good condition, some edgewear and a few tears. This is a New Edition: The Complete Text, with Notes and an Introduction by Samuel Eliot Morison. >> >> Robert M. Gerrity >> YANKEE ANCESTRY >> P. O. Box 2814 >> Acton, MA 01720 >> >> >> >>> Date: Mon, 4 Feb 2008 13:51:20 -0600 >>> From: smit8698@bellsouth.net >>> To: mayflower@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: [MFLR] Question about William Bradford's book >>> >>> Hello list, >>> >>> I would like to know if there is, to anyone's knowledge a >>> 'contemporary' version, or translation, for lack of a better word, of >>> William Bradford's book >>> "Of Plymouth Plantation". I have two of the printed versions, and they >>> are true to the old language, spelling, etc. That's all well and good, >>> of course, but I am finding it very tedious to read. Some of it is more >>> easily understood than the rest, but I find I have to read and re-read >>> parts of it many times to get the 'gist' of what he is saying. It's >>> kind of like the King James version of the Bible; while it is readable, >>> some of it is difficult to decipher because the language is so different >>> from our modern tongue. I really want to understand all this book has >>> to say, and I am not sure I am doing that at this point. Please let me >>> know if there is such a book out there. If there's not, all you >>> scholars, historians, and writers out there should think about taking on >>> such a project. I for one would buy it! >>> >>> Thanks, >>> >>> Linda >>> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >> _________________________________________________________________ >> Connect and share in new ways with Windows Live. >> http://www.windowslive.com/share.html?ocid=TXT_TAGHM_Wave2_sharelife_012008 >> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

jeansfamilyhistory@yahoo.com wrote: >> I have been looking for the same answer, and have not found any information. I do have a copy of Benjamins Howland's birth record, and it does states, Benja Howland and Eunice as mother.<< Kenneth Smith has a database with the family on WorldConnect...*with* documentation. He has Benjamin as a child of Benjamin and Eunice CHASE, and says the marriage record for them is in the Yarmouth VRs. Might be worth checking further. Hope this helps, Dianne ************** Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp00300000002548)

Hello list, I would like to know if there is, to anyone's knowledge a 'contemporary' version, or translation, for lack of a better word, of William Bradford's book "Of Plymouth Plantation". I have two of the printed versions, and they are true to the old language, spelling, etc. That's all well and good, of course, but I am finding it very tedious to read. Some of it is more easily understood than the rest, but I find I have to read and re-read parts of it many times to get the 'gist' of what he is saying. It's kind of like the King James version of the Bible; while it is readable, some of it is difficult to decipher because the language is so different from our modern tongue. I really want to understand all this book has to say, and I am not sure I am doing that at this point. Please let me know if there is such a book out there. If there's not, all you scholars, historians, and writers out there should think about taking on such a project. I for one would buy it! Thanks, Linda

I am praying that some one has the answer to this. I have a Benjamin Howland b.1752. I have only heard that Benjamin Howlands birth certificate listing his parents as Benjamin and Eunice Howland. The question is.....Who is Eunice....whats her last name, where was she born and who are her parents? I can not find any info on this lady! Thank you so much. Joyce

Joyce, I have been looking for the same answer, and have not found any information. I do have a copy of Benjamins Howland's birth record, and it does states, Benja Howland and Eunice as mother. Really wish I have more information. Jean Joyce & Bill Manuel <southern_heart_ranch@juno.com> wrote: I am praying that some one has the answer to this. I have a Benjamin Howland b.1752. I have only heard that Benjamin Howlands birth certificate listing his parents as Benjamin and Eunice Howland. The question is.....Who is Eunice....whats her last name, where was she born and who are her parents? I can not find any info on this lady! Thank you so much. Joyce Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message --------------------------------- Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

Carol, Their are scholarships available. Stefanie

This is a good place that at least let you put in search terms such as herealdy groups as part of the scholarship serach. http://www.fastaid.com/ Ernie On Feb 1, 2008 5:15 PM, <Scrapcat2@aol.com> wrote: > I've procrastinated about sending in my paperwork for the Mayflower > Society > and now my niece is asking about whether scholarships are available for > approved Mayflower descendants. > > She has four children who are moving toward college age and sure would > like > some help if it's available. > > Hope my question is not too far off-topic. > > Carol Kennedy > (Descendant of Peter Brown) > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > ( > http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 > 48) > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page > for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Ernest Everett Blevins, MFA • Blevins Historical Research 110 Evergreen Way • Villa Rica, Georgia 30180 blevins@alumni.cofc.edu • 770-456-1876 Historic Preservation Consultant -- Historical and Architectural Research -- Genealogical (Family) Research -- Preservation Planning and Documentation -- House History Member: American Planning Association, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Sons of the American Revolution, Sons of Confederate Veterans, Sons of Union Veterans, and member of numerous other lineage and heritage societies. .

Almost forgot, one more thing. He also said that a few colleges have designated scholarships for Mayflower descendants. I am not sure which ones. Scrapcat2@aol.com wrote: > I've procrastinated about sending in my paperwork for the Mayflower Society > and now my niece is asking about whether scholarships are available for > approved Mayflower descendants. > > She has four children who are moving toward college age and sure would like > some help if it's available. > > Hope my question is not too far off-topic. > > Carol Kennedy > (Descendant of Peter Brown) > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 > 48) > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I asked the same question myself, and I was told by our state historian that some few scholarships were available through some individual state societies but not all, and not by the GSMD. I don't know if that is accurate or not, but that was the answer I received. Scrapcat2@aol.com wrote: > I've procrastinated about sending in my paperwork for the Mayflower Society > and now my niece is asking about whether scholarships are available for > approved Mayflower descendants. > > She has four children who are moving toward college age and sure would like > some help if it's available. > > Hope my question is not too far off-topic. > > Carol Kennedy > (Descendant of Peter Brown) > > > > **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. > (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 > 48) > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I've procrastinated about sending in my paperwork for the Mayflower Society and now my niece is asking about whether scholarships are available for approved Mayflower descendants. She has four children who are moving toward college age and sure would like some help if it's available. Hope my question is not too far off-topic. Carol Kennedy (Descendant of Peter Brown) **************Biggest Grammy Award surprises of all time on AOL Music. (http://music.aol.com/grammys/pictures/never-won-a-grammy?NCID=aolcmp003000000025 48)

Am resending this message which I sent out on Wednesday - Richard didn't receive it so perhaps the list didn't either. My apologies if it is a duplicate. Susan www.friendsofthepilgrims.com www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html -----Original Message----- From: Susan E. Roser [mailto:roser@iprimus.ca] Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 8:55 AM To: 'mayflower@rootsweb.com' Subject: RE: [MFLR] Thomas Rogers line + membership Richard, I believe you're missing a generation below - it should read that your ancestor is John3 Rogers, son of John2 (Thomas1) Rogers + Anna Churchman, who married Elizabeth Peabody. Fill out the synopsis form at the society site (www.mayflowersociety.com) and submit it to see if the society has a previously approved well documented paper which matches your line. Since the first 5 generations are already done in book form, if a paper can be found containing another couple of generations, it would be a great help to you with documenting your middle generations (which can be a challenge). Best of luck, Susan E. Roser, Historian Canadian Society www.friendsofthepilgrims.com www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html -----Original Message----- From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Richard Hayes Sent: Wednesday, January 30, 2008 8:24 AM To: mayflower@rootsweb.com Subject: [MFLR] Thomas Rogers line Hello All, I have John Rogers, son of Thomas Rogers and Anna Churchman, who married Elizabeth Peabody, the daughter of William Peabody and Elizabeth Alden. Elizabeth Alden is my 8th great-grandmother. I also have other Mayflower connections. Since I live in Michigan I would contact the representative from Michigan. Is there anyone else connected to this line who goud give me some information? Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ---- Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Teresa, I live in Adrian, MI. I have 5 direct Mayflower and 3 other lines from marriages. If I have connected to the wrong John Rogers, will you send me the correct information. I am interested in the John Rogers who married Elizabeth Peabody. Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----

Hi Craig, I am related to John Rogers, the son of John Rogers and Anna Churchman. John married my 7th great aunt, Elizabeth Peabody. This gets into the Alden line because Elizabeth is a daughter of John Alden and Priscilla Mullins. I have the names of the spouses of John nd Elizabeth's children. Where would be the best place to find additional information about the children? I also live in Michigan. Richard ---------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----