Robert, Thanks so much for pointing me in the right direction and giving me hope. At least now I know it is worth pursuing this line. I have some documentation on Gen 7 but will need to work on Gen 6. Penny Robert Gerrity <yankeeancestry@hotmail.com> wrote: Penny, So long as you have documentation for your last two generations, I see no problem! Below my signature is a copy of what I've written up on Jonathan Winslow. This is from my Descendants of Ralph Paine of Freetown MA 1991. It is based on the old Soule volume, and much of that came frm the great 1th century Winslow Genealgoy, as I remember. I would think that Betsy and James Annis would show up in The Winslow Genealogy too. I have not checked the newer pink book yet. Looks good from my Paine side. Robert M. GerrityYANKEE ANCESTRYP. O. Box 2814Acton, MA 01720 113. JONATHAN WINSLOW, (Patience Paine, Thomas, Ralph), was born in Freetown on 1 January 1751, and died in Charlton MA 7 March 1826. He married first on 3 January 1773 SIBYL POTTER, who was born about 1755 and died 26 December 1777. He married second at Leicester MA on 22 April 1779 PHEBE NEWELL, daughter of John and ( ) (Fosdick) Newell, who was born in Leicester on 5 February 1759 and died in Charlton on 5 December 1833. 5 Jonathan WINSLOW b: 1749/50 in Plymouth Co, MA ....... +Phebe Newhall b: 1759 in Worcester Co, MA; 1779 in Worcester Co, MA 6 Betsey WINSLOW b: 1783 in Worcester Co, MA; d: 1856 in Wauskesha Co, WI ...... +JAMES ANNIS b: 1774 in Essex Co, MA; d in Wauskesha Co, WI; m: VT [Mother: Beulah GRIFFIN Father: JAMES ANNIS] 7 Phebe ANNIS b: 1809 in Madison Co, NY; d: Waukesha Co, WI ... +ORMAN JOHN HAZELTON b: 1808 in Cattaraugus Co, NY; d 1869 in Waukesha Co, WI Thanks,> Penny

At 01:06 PM 3/2/2008, you wrote: >Anyway, if anyone can help me place the Hannah Warren with the correct >John Chipman, it would be appreciated. Christie, Mayflower Births & Deaths by Roser has this family. John4 (Samuel3, Hope2 Howland, John1) m. Beverly 12 Feb 1718 Rebecca Hale, dau of Robert and Elizabeth (--?--) Hale. The Beverly VR calls her Mrs. Rebecca Hale. Rebecca was b. Beverly 19 Nov 1701 and d. Beverly 4 Jul 1751. Their son John was born Beverly 23 Oct 1722 and m. Elizabeth Brown ca 1744 per Mayflower Marriages by Roser and had 12 children per Mayflower Births & Deaths. John married 2nd 20 Nov 1751 Hannah Warren per Mayflower Marriages. Intentions were recorded at Beverly 2:58 - John, Rev., and Mrs. Hannah Warren of Roxbury, int. Nov. 3, 175_. [1751.] The marriage was recorded at Roxbury (2:411), also calling her Mrs Hannah Warren. Her death record at Beverly says she was age 61. There was a Hannah Warren born in Roxbury (1:352) 31 Mar 1707 dau of Joseph and Deborah making her about the right age. However I have not found a Hannah with that birth date in any of the Warren sources I have. Hope this helps. Randy

I'm in a quandry. I have a John Chipman - Howland line, born 1691 who married a Rebeckah ___ aka Mrs. Hale in 1718-1719. I have their son John Chipman, born 1722. Here's the quandry. In researching the Beverly, MA VRs I found a marriage entry for a John Chipman marrying a Mrs. Hannah Warren in 1751. The first time I ran through the records for Beverly I had entered the marraige between the first John (1691) as a second marriage to Mrs. Hannah Warren in1751. It was logical, it fit. Then, yesterday, I was working the records again and entered the marriage to the other John (1722), because it logically fit as well. The reason the first John (1691) got the second marriage in 1751 is because his first wife had died earlier that year and he had some children remaining in the home, namely a son who was born in 1751, so I'm sure he needed a "nursing" mom to take care of him. The logic for my attaching the same Hannah Warren to the son (1722), was because of the age factor. Now, does anyone know who the Mrs Hannah Warren might be and when she might have been born? If I had her age I could logically put her with the correct John Chipman. I know that the Chipman line comes off of Hope Howland, and that volume is not yet ready for the press, which is kind of a bummer at this point, but hoping perhaps that someone might just happen to have a copy of the Chipman genealogy that might cover the 5th or 6th generation, which I see is one of the references in Mrs. White's volume on the Howlands. I also checked the Warren silver's and none of the Hannah Warren's remained single as far as I can tell in order to get the "honorary" title of Mrs. in the marriage records. I realize that even if a marriage record calls her Mrs. in the VRs, she is not necessarily a married lady, that it is perhaps the contraction of mistress which sometimes confuses us in this day and age when we call married ladies Mrs. Anyway, if anyone can help me place the Hannah Warren with the correct John Chipman, it would be appreciated. Christie Trapp

Hi Christie, There is a google online book: "History of Beverly, Civil and Ecclesiastical etc...." @ http://books.google.com/books?id=TLErf1GD0pwC&pg=PA271&lpg=PA271&dq=%22John+Chipman%22+%22Hannah+Warren%22&source=web&ots=LOzWdggKhH&sig=G7rwfBPXKPG-to-466i_pbIzaZ4&hl=en that says John Chipman was m. to Rebecca, sister of Colonel Robert Hale, by whom he had 15 children, and 2nd, to Hannah Warren 'who died without issue' in 1769. Check it out at the link above and see if it helps any. Linda christietrapp@aol.com wrote: > I'm in a quandry. I have a John Chipman - Howland line, born 1691 who > married a Rebeckah ___ aka Mrs. Hale in 1718-1719. > > I have their son John Chipman, born 1722. > > Here's the quandry. In researching the Beverly, MA VRs I found a > marriage entry for a John Chipman marrying a Mrs. Hannah Warren in 1751. > > The first time I ran through the records for Beverly I had entered the > marraige between the first John (1691) as a second marriage to Mrs. > Hannah Warren in1751. It was logical, it fit. > > Then, yesterday, I was working the records again and entered the > marriage to the other John (1722), because it logically fit as well. > > The reason the first John (1691) got the second marriage in 1751 is > because his first wife had died earlier that year and he had some > children remaining in the home, namely a son who was born in 1751, so > I'm sure he needed a "nursing" mom to take care of him. > > The logic for my attaching the same Hannah Warren to the son (1722), > was because of the age factor. > > Now, does anyone know who the Mrs Hannah Warren might be and when she > might have been born? If I had her age I could logically put her with > the correct John Chipman. > > I know that the Chipman line comes off of Hope Howland, and that volume > is not yet ready for the press, which is kind of a bummer at this > point, but hoping perhaps that someone might just happen to have a copy > of the Chipman genealogy that might cover the 5th or 6th generation, > which I see is one of the references in Mrs. White's volume on the > Howlands. > > I also checked the Warren silver's and none of the Hannah Warren's > remained single as far as I can tell in order to get the "honorary" > title of Mrs. in the marriage records. I realize that even if a > marriage record calls her Mrs. in the VRs, she is not necessarily a > married lady, that it is perhaps the contraction of mistress which > sometimes confuses us in this day and age when we call married ladies > Mrs. > > Anyway, if anyone can help me place the Hannah Warren with the correct > John Chipman, it would be appreciated. > > Christie Trapp > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

I am researching for a new-to-genealogy Chace family member a possible Mayflower connection to William White. I am trying to place Experience White, b. 8 August, 1771, who m. Philip Chase (Chace), 28 Feb 1790, in Freetown, MA ( Dartmouth VRs), both of Freetown, possibly in the family of Peregrine WHITE of Freetown. Experience (White) Chace d. 1830 in Delaware County. Peregrine White of Freetown m. Mary Howland of Middleborough 3 May 1770 (Middleborough VRs). Peregrine was the son of Paul White and Elizabeth Curtis and was b. 23 December 1748. He is a direct descendant of William White. Peregrine appears in the Federal Census at Freetown in 1790, with one male under 16, two males over 16 and two females. (Of course, Experience at this time would be in the household with new husband Philip Chace and not be enumerated in any White family.) Peregrine appears in the 1800 Federal Census, still in Freetown, with one male 10-16, one male 16 to under 26, one male 26 and under 45, and one male 45 and older. Females are one aged 16 to under 26 and one other over 45. Experience White and her husband Philip Chace and many others of his Chace family from Freetown resettled in Delaware County, NY (Delhi, later called Hamden) in 1791. Also there in Delaware County in 1800 were Gershom, Joshua and Seth Howland (uncles, nephews or cousins (?) to Mary Howland who m. Peregrine White), as well as several Whites whom I cannot place as having come from Freetown. Experience White and Philip Chace named their 2nd son Thomas WHITE Chace (after her brother Thomas?) and named a second daughter Polly (nickname for Mary - her mother?) and a fourth daughter Hope (after her sister or grandmother?) And certainly Experience herself could have been named for Peregrine's maternal grandmother, Experience Palmer. I know that Thomas, Malachi and Hope are listed elsewhere in various family trees as children of Peregrine and Mary (Howland) White. This would agree with Census enumerations. There may have been another son according to the Census of 1800, although he is not listed in the Census of 1810. Is it possible that Experience is also a daughter - having missed the 1790 Census as she was a Chase at that time? There was an Experience White, born in Freetown 1772, who m. a Jonas Blanchard in 1795. That Experience White was the daughter of John White and Mercy Hathaway and is not the Experience White for whom I am searching. She is a descendant through Resovled White. That family had removed to NH before 1790. The other WHITE males of Freetown enumerated in the Federal Census of 1790 were Jenkins, Samuel, Thomas and Zebulon. For various reasons, I have eliminated them as possibles as the father of Experience. Since Experience was given as "of Freetown" in her marriage record of the same year (1790), I do believe her father should be there, too. I have not seen any wills of the above-named. I do not know whence the birthdate of 8 August, 1771 or the death-date of 1830 that George Chamberlain used for Experience White in his work on the Chase/Chace family. Does anyone know anything about "my" Experience? If she is not Peregrine's child, does anyone have another lead? Judy Chace Needham No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.2/1304 - Release Date: 2/29/2008 8:18 AM

Good morning, Thank you Dale. I haven't had a chance to look up some of those marvelous questions. Many of which I have wondered about also. Somewhere in my travels I was told that only deaths were required to be recorded and there was a fine if anyone failed to notify the authorities. My thinking would be for the "cause" of death such as Smallpox or Typhoid Fever which you do see in the VR's. Anyone know if this is fact or fiction?? Also, I have heard that at one time there was a fee for recording the births of children?? If so, when did that go into effect?? It would make sense that it would subsidize the town clerk's salary which probably raises many more questions. If it is planting time or a blizzard I doubt if our ancestors were going to trudge miles to record the birth of a child, especially if it is not the first child. More likely there would be a baptismal record later. I have always taken for granted and assumed (we know that is a mistake) that mariner meant the man was at sea. It was a given that men fished and farmed for survival even if they are recorded as a blacksmith etc. A woman wasn't listed as cook or seamstress unless she cooked or sewed for monetary gain. I have seen men listed as "farmer" or "fisherman" which would seem to indicate that was their profession. Am I correct?? Interesting! We get so involved with dates and events that we forget to look at daily routine and often pass over taking time to find out the answers to these questions. Any thoughts? Relatively yours, Muriel -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Dale H. Cook" <radiotest@cox.net> > At 01:47 PM 2/28/2008, Bill Van Hemert wrote: > > >What is the requirement for a resident to register his/her > >households births, deaths, and marriages ? > > That will take some digging. I may have a chance to look this weekend. > > >Are marriage being recorded in both church and civil registry systems ? > > They should have been, but were not always, recorded in both. > > >What is the penalty for failing to register these vital stats and > >are fines ever imposed ? > > I cannot recall seeing anyone cited for that. > > Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; > Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project > http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml > > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for > this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

>>What is the requirement for a resident to register his/her >>households births, deaths, and marriages ? This is a GENERAL reply as I too can not directly cite the pre-1685/1692 PlymCol laws, which were mirrored by Mass Bay. For a detailed summary, see the relevant section of R C Anderson's Introduction in the first volume of each sub-section of the Great Migration series and also the special volume on Plymouth. Always bear in mind that what was "required"/expected was always (1) more honored in the breach than the observance, and (2) early town recrods, while often copied from "old" to "new" books, could be and were subsequently mangled and lost. This is even more true of church records which clearly existed for all churches (re written act of covenant signed by organizing members) but which don't exist for most. (Marshfield's church records are somewhat intact from the 1690s but there was a gathered church there from at least 1640--so 50 years missing!) While a town clerk was by Plym law required to keep certain vital records, there was no penalty on the books for several decades if he did not do so. Also, the cost of entering the information was actually to be defrayed by the family paying x amount in pence to do so, and as a colony requirement that payment had to be in specie at a time when almost all local transactions were in some form of barter or "book accounts". Also, unlike Mass Bay, there was NO requirement to forward an annual copy to the county government which then passed it onto the colony. In the printing of Concord's vrs in the 1890s, entries from both the town and county copies were correlated. Only with the political changes in the 1680s does the clerk, Thomas Faunce, starts the formal record keeping that continues on to today. Note that the very first records are of a single family, not just a person per se, that of the town's then minister Rev. Cotton. The order of the early recordings is based on FAMILY STATUS, not on a strictly chronological sequence. In fact, either all or most of Rev Cotton's children were born in CT during his ministry in that state, but their birthdates appear formally in Plymouth VRs. This is true for the first several years and in spot recordings thereafter: families moving into Plymouth could choose to have all their childrens's births recorded whether they were born there or not. You have to actually look at the correctly printed record to be sure about that. >From Faunce on, under the new laws what was a requirement was now considered a duty, but the family still had to pay for the recording, though the price was dropped. The goal of recording was partly to have a formal record so one town could "warn out" individuals/families later on to their "home towns". Welfare was a town-home thing, re poor farms, etc. >>Are marriages being recorded in both church and civil registry systems ? Supposedly but see above and Anderson in particular. Knowing about marriages was part of this societal/welfare attitude, and also because marriage in the Puritan colonies was always seen as a civil affair. This changes too with the political changes, and so from the 1680s you will see an increase of ministers being recorded as the marriage officiators. But overall record keeping is highly dependent on the conscientiousness of the town clerk as recorder and to the vagaries re record survival over 4 centuries. >>What is the penalty for failing to register these vital stats and >>are fines ever imposed ? > > [Dale.] I cannot recall seeing anyone cited for that. Nor can I. The General Courts admonished those responsible to "do better". Again, town clerks were not salaried; a clerk's time doing town duties were mostly subsidized by the fees he receiev. A person such as the county clerk recording deeds and wills, well, that was ALL paid for by fees, which is another reason there was an under-reporting on estates and on land transactions. Again, Anderson's introduction is the best summary around on these issues at the moment. Really, its amazing that as much has survived. Robert M. Gerrity YANKEE ANCESTRY P. O. Box 2814 Acton, MA 01720 _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join

Although Dr. Jeremy Bangs' article "The Pilgrim and Election" archived at http://www.sail1620.org/discover_feature_the_pilgrims_and_election.shtml doesn't address all of these matters, readers might find his discussion of the Pilgrims' government interesting. Perhaps his long awaited book "The Pilgrims, Leiden, and the Early Years of Plymouth Plantation" (the introduction and first two chapters appear on http://www.sail1620.org/discover.shtml) will cover this. Stacy B. C. Wood, Jr. -----Original Message----- From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Robert Gerrity Sent: Friday, February 29, 2008 8:37 AM To: mayflower@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MFLR] ON VRs Plymouth colony & county >>What is the requirement for a resident to register his/her >>households births, deaths, and marriages ? This is a GENERAL reply as I too can not directly cite the pre-1685/1692 PlymCol laws, which were mirrored by Mass Bay. For a detailed summary, see the relevant section of R C Anderson's Introduction in the first volume of each sub-section of the Great Migration series and also the special volume on Plymouth. Always bear in mind that what was "required"/expected was always (1) more honored in the breach than the observance, and (2) early town recrods, while often copied from "old" to "new" books, could be and were subsequently mangled and lost. This is even more true of church records which clearly existed for all churches (re written act of covenant signed by organizing members) but which don't exist for most. (Marshfield's church records are somewhat intact from the 1690s but there was a gathered church there from at least 1640--so 50 years missing!) While a town clerk was by Plym law required to keep certain vital records, there was no penalty on the books for several decades if he did not do so. Also, the cost of entering the information was actually to be defrayed by the family paying x amount in pence to do so, and as a colony requirement that payment had to be in specie at a time when almost all local transactions were in some form of barter or "book accounts". Also, unlike Mass Bay, there was NO requirement to forward an annual copy to the county government which then passed it onto the colony. In the printing of Concord's vrs in the 1890s, entries from both the town and county copies were correlated. Only with the political changes in the 1680s does the clerk, Thomas Faunce, starts the formal record keeping that continues on to today. Note that the very first records are of a single family, not just a person per se, that of the town's then minister Rev. Cotton. The order of the early recordings is based on FAMILY STATUS, not on a strictly chronological sequence. In fact, either all or most of Rev Cotton's children were born in CT during his ministry in that state, but their birthdates appear formally in Plymouth VRs. This is true for the first several years and in spot recordings thereafter: families moving into Plymouth could choose to have all their childrens's births recorded whether they were born there or not. You have to actually look at the correctly printed record to be sure about that. >From Faunce on, under the new laws what was a requirement was now considered a duty, but the family still had to pay for the recording, though the price was dropped. The goal of recording was partly to have a formal record so one town could "warn out" individuals/families later on to their "home towns". Welfare was a town-home thing, re poor farms, etc. >>Are marriages being recorded in both church and civil registry systems ? Supposedly but see above and Anderson in particular. Knowing about marriages was part of this societal/welfare attitude, and also because marriage in the Puritan colonies was always seen as a civil affair. This changes too with the political changes, and so from the 1680s you will see an increase of ministers being recorded as the marriage officiators. But overall record keeping is highly dependent on the conscientiousness of the town clerk as recorder and to the vagaries re record survival over 4 centuries. >>What is the penalty for failing to register these vital stats and >>are fines ever imposed ? > > [Dale.] I cannot recall seeing anyone cited for that. Nor can I. The General Courts admonished those responsible to "do better". Again, town clerks were not salaried; a clerk's time doing town duties were mostly subsidized by the fees he receiev. A person such as the county clerk recording deeds and wills, well, that was ALL paid for by fees, which is another reason there was an under-reporting on estates and on land transactions. Again, Anderson's introduction is the best summary around on these issues at the moment. Really, its amazing that as much has survived. Robert M. Gerrity YANKEE ANCESTRY P. O. Box 2814 Acton, MA 01720 _________________________________________________________________ Helping your favorite cause is as easy as instant messaging. You IM, we give. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/Home/?source=text_hotmail_join Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

At 01:47 PM 2/28/2008, Bill Van Hemert wrote: >What is the requirement for a resident to register his/her >households births, deaths, and marriages ? That will take some digging. I may have a chance to look this weekend. >Are marriage being recorded in both church and civil registry systems ? They should have been, but were not always, recorded in both. >What is the penalty for failing to register these vital stats and >are fines ever imposed ? I cannot recall seeing anyone cited for that. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml

At 06:04 AM 2/29/2008, Bill Van Hemert wrote: >Susan does NOT give us a birthdate for Thomas,Jr mrd to Isabella >CAMPBELL. Am I correct that Plymouth VRs has NO record for him ? That is correct. >Likewise there is no birthdate for his sister, Mary mrd Wiliam >WESTON. Is that family neglect or are they out of town ? I have in my research many examples of children who were certainly born in a particular town but for whom there are no birth records in any area town. >There seems to be a connection to Boston with Isabella CAMPBELL. Are >any of the WESTON children for Thomas,Sr or Thomas,Jr and Isabella born there ? There are none. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml

Dear Muriel, Susan & Ken - Reading Susan's chronology and questions/conclusions leaves me wondering about a few items. MARINEER. I believe I saw that both Thomas,Sr and Capt Robert Roberts,Jr were listed as 'marineers'. First, what does that mean in this time ? Are they traders or fishermen ? Or ? AND could their occupation impact on Thos,Sr's spotty record in the Plymouth VRs ? PLYMOUTH VRs. Susan does NOT give us a birthdate for Thomas,Jr mrd to Isabella CAMPBELL. Am I correct that Plymouth VRs has NO record for him ? Likewise there is no birthdate for his sister, Mary mrd Wiliam WESTON. Is that family neglect or are they out of town ? BOSTON. There seems to be a connection to Boston with Isabella CAMPBELL. Are any of the WESTON children for Thomas,Sr or Thomas,Jr and Isabella born there ? Thanks Bill Van Hemert Edmund WESTON & REBECCA SOULE --- On Thu, 2/28/08, mayflower-request@rootsweb.com <mayflower-request@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 16:16:46 -0500 > From: "Susan E. Roser" <roser@iprimus.ca> > Subject: Re: [MFLR] Howland/Thomas Weston (LONG!) recap > To: <mayflower@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: > <200802272118.m1RLGxIL014252@mail.rootsweb.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII" > > Muriel - In answer to a question you raised below - MF > 23:1:163 does not > cite a will for Thomas Weston. It says only that on 19 May > 1743, Prudence > Weston was named admx. of estate of husband Thomas. > > I also checked the Plymouth Co Probate Index and the > following only are > listed for Thomas Weston: > > 1. 1743, Plymouth, adm. ("our" Thomas) > 2. 1776, Duxbury, will (son of Joseph Weston & Mercy > Peterson) > 3. 1776, Duxbury, gdn. (son of above) > 4. 1800, Plymouth gdn. > 5. 1834, Middleboro, will > __________________________ > > The chain of events that are known for the Thomas Weston in > question: > > An unidentified Thomas Weston married as his first wife, > Mary Howland in > 1723. > <Plymouth VRs> > > MF 23:1:163 says Thomas was "perhaps son of > Elnathan". The same source lists > their son Thomas who was born and died in 1725 and says he > married Isabella > Campbell. (This marriage took place in Boston in 1751) > > Thomas and Mary had "a child named Thomas born March > 20th 1724/5; decd. June > 23, 1725" <Plymouth VR:79> No other children > are recorded, nor are any > children listed as buried on Burial Hill with Mary. > > Mary Westron, wife of Thomas, died in 13 Feb 1730 age 28 > <Burial Hill by > Drew:94, Kingman:15> > > Thomas m. 2nd Prudence Conant 4 May 1730 <Plymouth > VR:96>. No children are > recorded at Plymouth. > > Thomas of Plymouth died before 19 May 1743 <wf Prudence > admx., Mayflower > Deeds & Probates:207> > > Prudence Weston of Plymouth fined L4 for fornication, March > 1745/6; pd by > Micha Bume. <Plymouth Co.Court Recs.9:213> (She is > not identified further > and not called widow. Note that if this is Prudence > (Conant) Weston, she > would have been 39 yrs old) > > The will of Prudence Weston, widow, dated 26 Oct. 1765 > <MDP:207> mentions > three children: > > 1. Mary, wife of William Weston > 2. three grandchildren, the children of son Thomas Weston, > dec'd > 3. Sarah Weston "(alias Ball") > > Prudence Weston, widow of Thomas, died 4 Jan. 1766, 59th yr > <Burial Hill by > Drew:94, Kingman:38> (buried next to Mary Weston above, > d. 1730) > > At the court held September 1771 is found Robert Roberts > (Plymouth, > Marriner) and Sarah his wife, exec. Prudence Weston, Widow > (Plymouth) v. > William Warren adm. Joseph Warren....trespass on the case > of a note dated > 1761...... <PCCR 14:307> > > Sarah Westron of Plymouth m. Robert Robards now resident in > Plimouth, int 12 > Aug 1769 <Plymouth VR:257>, m. 27 Aug. 1769, she > "Weston", he > "Roberts"<Plymouth VR:358> > > Robert & Sarah (Weston) Roberts had 3 children rec. at > Plymouth <Plymouth > VR:228 > > 1. Mary Roberts, 4 Oct 1769 > 2. Robert, 23 Sep. 1771; decd in Boston 1826 > 3. Sarah, 17 Aug 1773 > _________________ > > Questions, conclusions, etc. > > 1. Thomas & Prudence Weston had 3 children, Mary, > Thomas and Sarah (order > given in Prudence's will). > > 2. A Thomas Weston m. Isabella Campbell at Boston, 20 Dec > 1751 <Boston VR > 28:339> > > 3. MF 23:1:163 attributes the above Boston marriage to the > son of Thomas > Weston and Mary Howland who was born and died in 1725. > > 4. Do the Plymouth vital records err in saying Thomas, son > of Thomas & Mary > who was born in 1725 also died in 1725? Unlikely. > > 5. Since the will of Prudence Weston proves SHE had a son > named Thomas > Weston, then this must be the son by her husband, Thomas > Weston. Therefore > it could have been this son who m. at Boston, Isabella > Campbell but there is > no proof. > > 6. Next - find out if Thomas & Isabella (Campbell) > Weston had 3 children > living in 1765 as per Prudence's will. > > In all of this, Bill's original question that started > all this has yet to be > answered - the parentage of Thomas Weston who m. Mary > Howland and Prudence > Conant. MF 23:1:163 says only "perhaps son of > Elnathan". The only Elnathan I > can find was at Duxbury - Plymouth Co. Probate Index shows > a 1729 will. > _____________________ > > Okay - I'm just having way too much fun with this and > the afternoon is > wearing away. I'm supposed to be packing to leave for > Maui tomorrow......so > back to the packing. > > Susan E. Roser > > www.friendsofthepilgrims.com > > www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html > > Weston will cited in Howland MF 23:1:163. It > seems dau. Mary > Weston m. William Weston, son of Benjamin and his 2nd wife > Hannah (Coomer) > Weston. Sarah Weston was born 3 years after the death of > Thomas Weston and > court records fining Prudence support the illegitimacy. > Prudence's will > mentions "my granchildren, the children of my son > Thomas Weston, dec." > > The mss. lists Thomas Weston m. Isabella Campbell in Boston > on 29 Dec. 1751 > giving him a birth year of approx. 1730 (if 21). Mary > (Howland) Weston > d.13 Feb. 1730 (cause of death is not listed in Burial > Hill, 1990, p.380) > and Thomas Weston m. a few months later 4 May 1730 Prudence > Conant. > Perhaps Mary (Howland) died in childbirth and Thomas needed > someone in a > hurry to care for his infant son??? Thomas Weston of > Boston could be the > child of either wife but Prudence's will does confirm a > son Thomas who > married and had children. > > This is a quick overview. Any thoughts?? > > Relatively yours, > Muriel Curtis Cushing > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 27 Feb 2008 21:38:19 +0000 > From: flash1620@comcast.net > Subject: Re: [MFLR] Howland/Thomas Weston (LONG!) recap > To: mayflower@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: > <022720082138.23213.47C5D84B0004FA3D00005AAD2200751150CFCDC0CE089C0E0400@comcast.net> > > Content-Type: text/plain > > Hi Susan, > > Yes, Bill and I had found most of that and the initial > problem is still not solved. I did not see the court > record that lists Prudence as mother of Sarah Roberts > though I had told Bill that is who I suspected she had > married. That seems to settle that question. The will > of Elnathan according to the mss. does not list a son > Thomas so Samuel Weston questions that Thomas belongs in > that family. The will should be consulted to be sure. > > Thanks for your input. Any room in that suitcase?? Have > fun in Maui!! > > Hugs, Muriel > > > > -------------- Original message -------------- > From: "Susan E. Roser" <roser@iprimus.ca> > > > Muriel - In answer to a question you raised below - MF > 23:1:163 does not > > cite a will for Thomas Weston. It says only that on 19 > May 1743, Prudence > > Weston was named admx. of estate of husband Thomas. > > > > I also checked the Plymouth Co Probate Index and the > following only are > > listed for Thomas Weston: > > > > 1. 1743, Plymouth, adm. ("our" Thomas) > > 2. 1776, Duxbury, will (son of Joseph Weston & > Mercy Peterson) > > 3. 1776, Duxbury, gdn. (son of above) > > 4. 1800, Plymouth gdn. > > 5. 1834, Middleboro, will > > __________________________ > > > > The chain of events that are known for the Thomas > Weston in question: > > > > An unidentified Thomas Weston married as his first > wife, Mary Howland in > > 1723. > > > > > > MF 23:1:163 says Thomas was "perhaps son of > Elnathan". The same source lists > > their son Thomas who was born and died in 1725 and > says he married Isabella > > Campbell. (This marriage took place in Boston in 1751) > > > > > Thomas and Mary had "a child named Thomas born > March 20th 1724/5; decd. June > > 23, 1725" No other children are recorded, nor are > any > > children listed as buried on Burial Hill with Mary. > > > > Mary Westron, wife of Thomas, died in 13 Feb 1730 age > 28 > Drew:94, Kingman:15> > > > > Thomas m. 2nd Prudence Conant 4 May 1730 . No children > are > > recorded at Plymouth. > > > > Thomas of Plymouth died before 19 May 1743 > Deeds > & Probates:207> > > > > Prudence Weston of Plymouth fined L4 for fornication, > March 1745/6; pd by > > Micha Bume. (She is not identified further > > and not called widow. Note that if this is Prudence > (Conant) Weston, she > > would have been 39 yrs old) > > > > The will of Prudence Weston, widow, dated 26 Oct. 1765 > mentions > > three children: > > > > 1. Mary, wife of William Weston > > 2. three grandchildren, the children of son Thomas > Weston, dec'd > > 3. Sarah Weston "(alias Ball") > > > > Prudence Weston, widow of Thomas, died 4 Jan. 1766, > 59th yr > Drew:94, Kingman:38> (buried next to Mary > Weston above, d. 1730) > > > > At the court held September 1771 is found Robert > Roberts (Plymouth, > > Marriner) and Sarah his wife, exec. Prudence Weston, > Widow (Plymouth) v. > > William Warren adm. Joseph Warren....trespass on the > case of a note dated > > 1761...... > > > > Sarah Westron of Plymouth m. Robert Robards now > resident in Plimouth, int 12 > > Aug 1769 , m. 27 Aug. 1769, she "Weston", he > > > "Roberts" > > > > Robert & Sarah (Weston) Roberts had 3 children > rec. at Plymouth > VR:228 > > > > 1. Mary Roberts, 4 Oct 1769 > > 2. Robert, 23 Sep. 1771; decd in Boston 1826 > > 3. Sarah, 17 Aug 1773 > > _________________ > > > > Questions, conclusions, etc. > > > > 1. Thomas & Prudence Weston had 3 children, Mary, > Thomas and Sarah (order > > given in Prudence's will). > > > > 2. A Thomas Weston m. Isabella Campbell at Boston, 20 > Dec 1751 > 28:339> > > > > 3. MF 23:1:163 attributes the above Boston marriage to > the son of Thomas > > Weston and Mary Howland who was born and died in 1725. > > > > > 4. Do the Plymouth vital records err in saying Thomas, > son of Thomas & Mary > > who was born in 1725 also died in 1725? Unlikely. > > > > 5. Since the will of Prudence Weston proves SHE had a > son named Thomas > > Weston, then this must be the son by her husband, > Thomas Weston. Therefore > > it could have been this son who m. at Boston, Isabella > Campbell but there is > > no proof. > > > > 6. Next - find out if Thomas & Isabella (Campbell) > Weston had 3 children > > living in 1765 as per Prudence's will. > > > > In all of this, Bill's original question that > started all this has yet to be > > answered - the parentage of Thomas Weston who m. Mary > Howland and Prudence > > Conant. MF 23:1:163 says only "perhaps son of > Elnathan". The only Elnathan I > > can find was at Duxbury - Plymouth Co. Probate Index > shows a 1729 will. > > _____________________ > > > > Okay - I'm just having way too much fun with this > and the afternoon is > > wearing away. I'm supposed to be packing to leave > for Maui tomorrow......so > > back to the packing. > > > > Susan E. Roser > > > > www.friendsofthepilgrims.com > > www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html

Penny, So long as you have documentation for your last two generations, I see no problem! Below my signature is a copy of what I've written up on Jonathan Winslow. This is from my Descendants of Ralph Paine of Freetown MA 1991. It is based on the old Soule volume, and much of that came frm the great 1th century Winslow Genealgoy, as I remember. I would think that Betsy and James Annis would show up in The Winslow Genealogy too. I have not checked the newer pink book yet. Looks good from my Paine side. Robert M. GerrityYANKEE ANCESTRYP. O. Box 2814Acton, MA 01720 113. JONATHAN WINSLOW, (Patience Paine, Thomas, Ralph), was born in Freetown on 1 January 1751, and died in Charlton MA 7 March 1826. He married first on 3 January 1773 SIBYL POTTER, who was born about 1755 and died 26 December 1777. He married second at Leicester MA on 22 April 1779 PHEBE NEWELL, daughter of John and ( ) (Fosdick) Newell, who was born in Leicester on 5 February 1759 and died in Charlton on 5 December 1833. There are no Potter births or deaths recorded in VR Freetown. There are several couples whose marriages are recorded; the one couple that might fit the time frame to be Sybil Potter's parents is Benjamin Potter and Mary Edminster, whose marriage intentions were published 6 July 1753. Jonathan served in the Revolution. In addition to Freetown, he lived in Scituate, Spenser and Charlton. His will, dated Charlton, 26 July 1819, and proved 2 May 1826, names wife Phebe; sons Pardon, John (long absent), and Jonathan; daughters Betsey wife of James Annis, Dolly wife of Moses Blood, Phebe wife of Alpheus Brown, Polly wife of John T. Hooker; granddaughter Madessa Winslow, daughter of Phebe Winslow, and grandson Varannces C. Hooker. His son Jonathan administered the estate.* Children, Winslow, first two by first wife, from MFG3 and probate abstract above: i. Pardon, b. Freetown 26 Sept. 1773. ii. John, b. 8 March or Nov. 1776. iii. Polly, b. 30 Oct. 1781, d.y. iv. Betsey, b. 15 Feb. 1783, m. James Annis. v. Jonathan, b. 15 May 1785 vi. child (twin), b. Charlton 15 April 1786, d.y. vii. Polly (twin), b. Charlton 15 April 1786, m. John T. Hooker viii. Dolly, m. Moses Blood. ix.. Phebe, b. 14 April 1796, m. Alpheus Brown. * Worcester County Probate W66616 as cited in MGF3 386. > Date: Thu, 28 Feb 2008 11:44:27 -0800> From: pennyph@pacbell.net> To: mayflower@rootsweb.com> Subject: [MFLR] Annis family connection to George Soule line?> > I recently found a possible link to George Soule through Phebe Annis, my gr-gr-grandmother on my father's side. I have several lines approved on my mother's side but it would be particularly nice to find a link through my Hazelton line as is was my grandfather Hazelton who got me interested in genealogy in the 1st place.> > Has anyone been approved through at least part of this line? I don't have the Soule book.> > George Soule> .. +Mary 'Bucket' Beckett m: Bef. 1627 in Plymouth, Massachusetts> > 2 Patience Soule > ..... +John Haskell m: Jan 1665/66 in Middleborough, MA> > 3 Susannah Haskell b 1690 in Middleborough, MA> ........ +Thomas Paine b: 1692 in Swansea, Bristol Co, MA> > 4 Patience Paine b: 1720 in Bristol Co MA> ........ +Jonathan Winslow d: 1805 in Hartford Co, CT [Jonathan Winslow of Kenelm line]> > 5 Jonathan WINSLOW b: 1749/50 in Plymouth Co, MA > ....... +Phebe Newhall b: 1759 in Worcester Co, MA; 1779 in Worcester Co, MA> > 6 Betsey WINSLOW b: 1783 in Worcester Co, MA; d: 1856 in Wauskesha Co, WI> ...... +JAMES ANNIS b: 1774 in Essex Co, MA; d in Wauskesha Co, WI; m: VT> [Mother: Beulah GRIFFIN Father: JAMES ANNIS]> > 7 Phebe ANNIS b: 1809 in Madison Co, NY; d: Waukesha Co, WI> ...... +ORMAN JOHN HAZELTON b: 1808 in Cattaraugus Co, NY; d 1869 in Waukesha Co, WI> > Thanks,> Penny> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm> -------------------------------> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Need to know the score, the latest news, or you need your Hotmail®-get your "fix". http://www.msnmobilefix.com/Default.aspx

Craig Rich wrote: > The silver and pink books are described both on the FAQ page for this list > (see the link at the bottom of every message) and on the General Society's > web site: http://www.themayflowersociety.com/book.htm. > > I haven't updated the FAQ lately but 99% of it should be correct. > > -- Craig Rich > Mayflower List administrator Why are the publication dates missing from the hard cover books? Can they be added to the page? Thanks, John

I recently found a possible link to George Soule through Phebe Annis, my gr-gr-grandmother on my father's side. I have several lines approved on my mother's side but it would be particularly nice to find a link through my Hazelton line as is was my grandfather Hazelton who got me interested in genealogy in the 1st place. Has anyone been approved through at least part of this line? I don't have the Soule book. George Soule .. +Mary 'Bucket' Beckett m: Bef. 1627 in Plymouth, Massachusetts 2 Patience Soule ..... +John Haskell m: Jan 1665/66 in Middleborough, MA 3 Susannah Haskell b 1690 in Middleborough, MA ........ +Thomas Paine b: 1692 in Swansea, Bristol Co, MA 4 Patience Paine b: 1720 in Bristol Co MA ........ +Jonathan Winslow d: 1805 in Hartford Co, CT [Jonathan Winslow of Kenelm line] 5 Jonathan WINSLOW b: 1749/50 in Plymouth Co, MA ....... +Phebe Newhall b: 1759 in Worcester Co, MA; 1779 in Worcester Co, MA 6 Betsey WINSLOW b: 1783 in Worcester Co, MA; d: 1856 in Wauskesha Co, WI ...... +JAMES ANNIS b: 1774 in Essex Co, MA; d in Wauskesha Co, WI; m: VT [Mother: Beulah GRIFFIN Father: JAMES ANNIS] 7 Phebe ANNIS b: 1809 in Madison Co, NY; d: Waukesha Co, WI ...... +ORMAN JOHN HAZELTON b: 1808 in Cattaraugus Co, NY; d 1869 in Waukesha Co, WI Thanks, Penny

Dear Muriel, Wish I were in Maui, Susan, & Ken - This is a tangential question, BUT I believe it bears on the subject at hand. What was required of Plymouth and environs' residents mid-18th Century re vital records ? I realize that our Pilgrim fathers apparently adopted a public registry of vital statistics system (birth, marriage, death) from England. What is the requirement for a resident to register his/her households births, deaths, and marriages ? Are marriage being recorded in both church and civil registry systems ? What is the penalty for failing to register these vital stats and are fines ever imposed ? What do communities do about out-of-wedlock births by mid-18th C ? Is the woman in question expected or coerced to name the man? Is there a legal proceeding to establish parentage ? Is the father expected to support his child financially ? Is his parentage entered into the VR ? Aside from my specific questions, I am seeking some insight into how these present day government functions were performed at mid-18th C, and how it might effect what we see today in the VRs. Thanks, Bill Van Hemert Edmund WESTON & Rebecca SOULE

Hi Susan, Yes, Bill and I had found most of that and the initial problem is still not solved. I did not see the court record that lists Prudence as mother of Sarah Roberts though I had told Bill that is who I suspected she had married. That seems to settle that question. The will of Elnathan according to the mss. does not list a son Thomas so Samuel Weston questions that Thomas belongs in that family. The will should be consulted to be sure. Thanks for your input. Any room in that suitcase?? Have fun in Maui!! Hugs, Muriel -------------- Original message -------------- From: "Susan E. Roser" <roser@iprimus.ca> > Muriel - In answer to a question you raised below - MF 23:1:163 does not > cite a will for Thomas Weston. It says only that on 19 May 1743, Prudence > Weston was named admx. of estate of husband Thomas. > > I also checked the Plymouth Co Probate Index and the following only are > listed for Thomas Weston: > > 1. 1743, Plymouth, adm. ("our" Thomas) > 2. 1776, Duxbury, will (son of Joseph Weston & Mercy Peterson) > 3. 1776, Duxbury, gdn. (son of above) > 4. 1800, Plymouth gdn. > 5. 1834, Middleboro, will > __________________________ > > The chain of events that are known for the Thomas Weston in question: > > An unidentified Thomas Weston married as his first wife, Mary Howland in > 1723. > > > MF 23:1:163 says Thomas was "perhaps son of Elnathan". The same source lists > their son Thomas who was born and died in 1725 and says he married Isabella > Campbell. (This marriage took place in Boston in 1751) > > Thomas and Mary had "a child named Thomas born March 20th 1724/5; decd. June > 23, 1725" No other children are recorded, nor are any > children listed as buried on Burial Hill with Mary. > > Mary Westron, wife of Thomas, died in 13 Feb 1730 age 28 > Drew:94, Kingman:15> > > Thomas m. 2nd Prudence Conant 4 May 1730 . No children are > recorded at Plymouth. > > Thomas of Plymouth died before 19 May 1743 > Deeds & Probates:207> > > Prudence Weston of Plymouth fined L4 for fornication, March 1745/6; pd by > Micha Bume. (She is not identified further > and not called widow. Note that if this is Prudence (Conant) Weston, she > would have been 39 yrs old) > > The will of Prudence Weston, widow, dated 26 Oct. 1765 mentions > three children: > > 1. Mary, wife of William Weston > 2. three grandchildren, the children of son Thomas Weston, dec'd > 3. Sarah Weston "(alias Ball") > > Prudence Weston, widow of Thomas, died 4 Jan. 1766, 59th yr > Drew:94, Kingman:38> (buried next to Mary Weston above, d. 1730) > > At the court held September 1771 is found Robert Roberts (Plymouth, > Marriner) and Sarah his wife, exec. Prudence Weston, Widow (Plymouth) v. > William Warren adm. Joseph Warren....trespass on the case of a note dated > 1761...... > > Sarah Westron of Plymouth m. Robert Robards now resident in Plimouth, int 12 > Aug 1769 , m. 27 Aug. 1769, she "Weston", he > "Roberts" > > Robert & Sarah (Weston) Roberts had 3 children rec. at Plymouth > VR:228 > > 1. Mary Roberts, 4 Oct 1769 > 2. Robert, 23 Sep. 1771; decd in Boston 1826 > 3. Sarah, 17 Aug 1773 > _________________ > > Questions, conclusions, etc. > > 1. Thomas & Prudence Weston had 3 children, Mary, Thomas and Sarah (order > given in Prudence's will). > > 2. A Thomas Weston m. Isabella Campbell at Boston, 20 Dec 1751 > 28:339> > > 3. MF 23:1:163 attributes the above Boston marriage to the son of Thomas > Weston and Mary Howland who was born and died in 1725. > > 4. Do the Plymouth vital records err in saying Thomas, son of Thomas & Mary > who was born in 1725 also died in 1725? Unlikely. > > 5. Since the will of Prudence Weston proves SHE had a son named Thomas > Weston, then this must be the son by her husband, Thomas Weston. Therefore > it could have been this son who m. at Boston, Isabella Campbell but there is > no proof. > > 6. Next - find out if Thomas & Isabella (Campbell) Weston had 3 children > living in 1765 as per Prudence's will. > > In all of this, Bill's original question that started all this has yet to be > answered - the parentage of Thomas Weston who m. Mary Howland and Prudence > Conant. MF 23:1:163 says only "perhaps son of Elnathan". The only Elnathan I > can find was at Duxbury - Plymouth Co. Probate Index shows a 1729 will. > _____________________ > > Okay - I'm just having way too much fun with this and the afternoon is > wearing away. I'm supposed to be packing to leave for Maui tomorrow......so > back to the packing. > > Susan E. Roser > > www.friendsofthepilgrims.com > > www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of flash1620@comcast.net > Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:56 AM > To: mayflower@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MFLR] FW: Re: John HOWLAND Descendant: Mary HOWLAND,b.15 Feb > 1701/1702 Plymouth > > Good morning Bill & Ken, > > I haven't researched this family but I notice that Thomas Weston, son of > Thomas and Mary (Howland) Weston died a few months after birth. According > to the 1903 Samuel Weston mss. Thomas Weston of Boston who m. Isabella > Campbell "is thought by some" to be the son of Thomas Weston though there is > nothing to substantiate the theory. > > The will of Prudence (Conant) Weston (thanks to Bill) mentions her daus. > Mary, Sarah and deceased son Thomas Weston. It would be interesting to see > the Thomas Weston will cited in Howland MF 23:1:163. It seems dau. Mary > Weston m. William Weston, son of Benjamin and his 2nd wife Hannah (Coomer) > Weston. Sarah Weston was born 3 years after the death of Thomas Weston and > court records fining Prudence support the illegitimacy. Prudence's will > mentions "my granchildren, the children of my son Thomas Weston, dec." > > The mss. lists Thomas Weston m. Isabella Campbell in Boston on 29 Dec. 1751 > giving him a birth year of approx. 1730 (if 21). Mary (Howland) Weston > d.13 Feb. 1730 (cause of death is not listed in Burial Hill, 1990, p.380) > and Thomas Weston m. a few months later 4 May 1730 Prudence Conant. > Perhaps Mary (Howland) died in childbirth and Thomas needed someone in a > hurry to care for his infant son??? Thomas Weston of Boston could be the > child of either wife but Prudence's will does confirm a son Thomas who > married and had children. > > This is a quick overview. Any thoughts?? > > Relatively yours, > Muriel Curtis Cushing > > > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for > this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

Hi Barbara, I know you have asked this question before and sorry that you still have been unable to determine Sally's parentage. Some time after we had Emailed I did find that someone had written in "Sally m. Capt. Peres Sampson" as a 5th dau. of Asa Weston. This is under the family of Asa Weston who m. (1) Jane Brewster and (2) Abigail Kent. I will Email you the page and you can decide its worth. It is faint so if it doesn't come through o.k. let me know and I can fill in the parts that are unreadable. I hesitate to send you misinformation so a word of caution that the mss. does not contain references and needs to be confirmed. I have found that the information I have used has been easily substantiated with VR's etc. Good luck with your search. Relatively yours, Muriel Curtis Cushing -------------- Original message -------------- From: "scanbar" <scanbar@prodigy.net> > Does anyone know anything about a Sally Weston who married Perez H. Sampson > 9Sept 9,1803possibly Duxbury, MA or perhaps Kingston or Pembroke or ...? > > Thank you > Barbara > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for > this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

The silver and pink books are described both on the FAQ page for this list (see the link at the bottom of every message) and on the General Society's web site: http://www.themayflowersociety.com/book.htm. I haven't updated the FAQ lately but 99% of it should be correct. -- Craig Rich Mayflower List administrator -----Original Message----- From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Terry Reigel Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 2:51 PM To: mayflower@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MFLR] Update on Howland books On Tue, 26 Feb 2008 23:39:45 EST, Gailsline@aol.com wrote: > I spoke with the publisher today. The two books, > descendants of John and Elizabeth (Tilley) Howland > through the daughters Hope and Elizabeth are all in the > computers there. I'm afraid I don't understand all I should about the Mayflower books. Perhaps some kind soul can clarify for me. I see there is already a book available in the "Mayflower Families Genealogies through Five Generations" series - vol 23 part 1, covering Howland's last six children. I gather the two new books will be parts 2 and 3 in that series? There are also two Howland books that apparently are not part of the Five Generations project, vol 1 apparently on Desire's children and vol 2 on son John's. How do these books differ from the others? This is of interest because my wife, whose descent from William Bradford I have successfully proved, also has a supposed descent from Howland that I'd like to explore. Thanks for any clarification anyone can offer. Terry Reigel Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Muriel - In answer to a question you raised below - MF 23:1:163 does not cite a will for Thomas Weston. It says only that on 19 May 1743, Prudence Weston was named admx. of estate of husband Thomas. I also checked the Plymouth Co Probate Index and the following only are listed for Thomas Weston: 1. 1743, Plymouth, adm. ("our" Thomas) 2. 1776, Duxbury, will (son of Joseph Weston & Mercy Peterson) 3. 1776, Duxbury, gdn. (son of above) 4. 1800, Plymouth gdn. 5. 1834, Middleboro, will __________________________ The chain of events that are known for the Thomas Weston in question: An unidentified Thomas Weston married as his first wife, Mary Howland in 1723. <Plymouth VRs> MF 23:1:163 says Thomas was "perhaps son of Elnathan". The same source lists their son Thomas who was born and died in 1725 and says he married Isabella Campbell. (This marriage took place in Boston in 1751) Thomas and Mary had "a child named Thomas born March 20th 1724/5; decd. June 23, 1725" <Plymouth VR:79> No other children are recorded, nor are any children listed as buried on Burial Hill with Mary. Mary Westron, wife of Thomas, died in 13 Feb 1730 age 28 <Burial Hill by Drew:94, Kingman:15> Thomas m. 2nd Prudence Conant 4 May 1730 <Plymouth VR:96>. No children are recorded at Plymouth. Thomas of Plymouth died before 19 May 1743 <wf Prudence admx., Mayflower Deeds & Probates:207> Prudence Weston of Plymouth fined L4 for fornication, March 1745/6; pd by Micha Bume. <Plymouth Co.Court Recs.9:213> (She is not identified further and not called widow. Note that if this is Prudence (Conant) Weston, she would have been 39 yrs old) The will of Prudence Weston, widow, dated 26 Oct. 1765 <MDP:207> mentions three children: 1. Mary, wife of William Weston 2. three grandchildren, the children of son Thomas Weston, dec'd 3. Sarah Weston "(alias Ball") Prudence Weston, widow of Thomas, died 4 Jan. 1766, 59th yr <Burial Hill by Drew:94, Kingman:38> (buried next to Mary Weston above, d. 1730) At the court held September 1771 is found Robert Roberts (Plymouth, Marriner) and Sarah his wife, exec. Prudence Weston, Widow (Plymouth) v. William Warren adm. Joseph Warren....trespass on the case of a note dated 1761...... <PCCR 14:307> Sarah Westron of Plymouth m. Robert Robards now resident in Plimouth, int 12 Aug 1769 <Plymouth VR:257>, m. 27 Aug. 1769, she "Weston", he "Roberts"<Plymouth VR:358> Robert & Sarah (Weston) Roberts had 3 children rec. at Plymouth <Plymouth VR:228 1. Mary Roberts, 4 Oct 1769 2. Robert, 23 Sep. 1771; decd in Boston 1826 3. Sarah, 17 Aug 1773 _________________ Questions, conclusions, etc. 1. Thomas & Prudence Weston had 3 children, Mary, Thomas and Sarah (order given in Prudence's will). 2. A Thomas Weston m. Isabella Campbell at Boston, 20 Dec 1751 <Boston VR 28:339> 3. MF 23:1:163 attributes the above Boston marriage to the son of Thomas Weston and Mary Howland who was born and died in 1725. 4. Do the Plymouth vital records err in saying Thomas, son of Thomas & Mary who was born in 1725 also died in 1725? Unlikely. 5. Since the will of Prudence Weston proves SHE had a son named Thomas Weston, then this must be the son by her husband, Thomas Weston. Therefore it could have been this son who m. at Boston, Isabella Campbell but there is no proof. 6. Next - find out if Thomas & Isabella (Campbell) Weston had 3 children living in 1765 as per Prudence's will. In all of this, Bill's original question that started all this has yet to be answered - the parentage of Thomas Weston who m. Mary Howland and Prudence Conant. MF 23:1:163 says only "perhaps son of Elnathan". The only Elnathan I can find was at Duxbury - Plymouth Co. Probate Index shows a 1729 will. _____________________ Okay - I'm just having way too much fun with this and the afternoon is wearing away. I'm supposed to be packing to leave for Maui tomorrow......so back to the packing. Susan E. Roser www.friendsofthepilgrims.com www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html -----Original Message----- From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of flash1620@comcast.net Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 7:56 AM To: mayflower@rootsweb.com Subject: [MFLR] FW: Re: John HOWLAND Descendant: Mary HOWLAND,b.15 Feb 1701/1702 Plymouth Good morning Bill & Ken, I haven't researched this family but I notice that Thomas Weston, son of Thomas and Mary (Howland) Weston died a few months after birth. According to the 1903 Samuel Weston mss. Thomas Weston of Boston who m. Isabella Campbell "is thought by some" to be the son of Thomas Weston though there is nothing to substantiate the theory. The will of Prudence (Conant) Weston (thanks to Bill) mentions her daus. Mary, Sarah and deceased son Thomas Weston. It would be interesting to see the Thomas Weston will cited in Howland MF 23:1:163. It seems dau. Mary Weston m. William Weston, son of Benjamin and his 2nd wife Hannah (Coomer) Weston. Sarah Weston was born 3 years after the death of Thomas Weston and court records fining Prudence support the illegitimacy. Prudence's will mentions "my granchildren, the children of my son Thomas Weston, dec." The mss. lists Thomas Weston m. Isabella Campbell in Boston on 29 Dec. 1751 giving him a birth year of approx. 1730 (if 21). Mary (Howland) Weston d.13 Feb. 1730 (cause of death is not listed in Burial Hill, 1990, p.380) and Thomas Weston m. a few months later 4 May 1730 Prudence Conant. Perhaps Mary (Howland) died in childbirth and Thomas needed someone in a hurry to care for his infant son??? Thomas Weston of Boston could be the child of either wife but Prudence's will does confirm a son Thomas who married and had children. This is a quick overview. Any thoughts?? Relatively yours, Muriel Curtis Cushing

John and Elizabeth (Tilley) Howland had ten children, therefore, there will be lines through all ten. Vol. 1 & 2 were done through Picton Press not the Mayflower Society and cover the first two children, Desire and John Jr. The Mayflower book, part 23, is part of their series, covers the last six children. That leaves children # 3 & 4, daughters Hope and Elizabeth. They have been in process for many years. Hope's volume will be huge -- more than 700 pages probably. They will be vol 3 & 4 from Picton, not v. 23. as they are not done through the Five Gens Project. Originally all the books were going through Mrs. White, the author, and it was thought they could be covered in a few volumes. The project turned out to be much larger and then became one volume per child of the Howlands. Hope this helps! Gail In a message dated 2/27/2008 2:52:08 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, terry@reigelridge.com writes: I'm afraid I don't understand all I should about the Mayflower books. Perhaps some kind soul can clarify for me. I see there is already a book available in the "Mayflower Families Genealogies through Five Generations" series - vol 23 part 1, covering Howland's last six children. I gather the two new books will be parts 2 and 3 in that series? There are also two Howland books that apparently are not part of the Five Generations project, vol 1 apparently on Desire's children and vol 2 on son John's. How do these books differ from the others? **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)