Excellent point, Ernie, and a potentially great use of DNA evidence. Polly On Jul 21, 2008, at 1:49 PM, Ernest Everett Blevins wrote: > I think one thing to keep in mind is that the DNA isn't necessarily > being > used to connect necessarily to the Mayflower passenger but might be a > weak > link in the lineage that can be firmed up by a DNA to that generation > where > documentation is muddled or non existant. If its known only one > member left > Mass for say Kentucky and legend but no paperwrok say that the Kentucky > settler came from Mass then it can be a tool to link the fmaily if a > known > paper line say exists in Massachusetts to compare with. > > Ernie > > On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 3:45 PM, Katherine Hope Borges > <kvjjmmborges@msn.com> > wrote: > >> >> Hi Sherrye, >> >> In some cases, albeit rare, Y-DNA CAN identify a specific ancestor, >> as it >> does with Samuel Fuller's line. His line has a rare mutation, DYS >> 393=12 >> where his brother Edward, and his cousins, have a DYS 393=13. I do >> not know >> whether Dr. Samuel himself had this mutation, but can tell you with >> 100% >> certainty that his son, Samuel did >> because he passed it on to his sons. >> >> http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/mayflowerfullersdnaproject.htm >> >> Kind regards, >> Katherine Hope Borges >> Fuller DNA Project Administrator >> >>> From: SherryeW@aol.com >>> Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:47:16 -0400 >>> To: mayflower@rootsweb.com >>> Subject: Re: [MFLR] DNA and Application Process >>> >>> I don't believe DNA can ever replace the paper lineage, mainly >>> because >> (at >>> this point) it cannot prove you are descended from a specific >>> individual. >> For >>> example male Howland descendants of John Howland would have the same >>> or >>> similar DNA results as those of Arthur Howland because they are >>> brothers. >> One is >>> a Mayflower line and one is not. I believe they are accepting (or >>> soon >> will >>> be) DNA results in addition to paper lineages, to be used as >> confirmation the >>> paper lineage is genetically correct. >>> >>> Sherrye >>> >>> In a message dated 7/21/2008 3:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, >>> mayflower-request@rootsweb.com writes: >>> >>> Dna is irrefutable evidence for establishing the male Y line >>> carrier >>> >> >> Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ >> page >> for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > -- > Ernest Everett Blevins, MFA • Blevins Historical Research > 110 Evergreen Way • Villa Rica, Georgia 30180 > blevins@alumni.cofc.edu • 770-456-1876 > > Historic Preservation Consultant -- Historical and Architectural > Research -- > Genealogical (Family) Research -- Preservation Planning and > Documentation -- > House History > > Member: American Planning Association, New England Historic > Genealogical > Society, Sons of the American Revolution, Sons of Confederate > Veterans, Sons > of Union Veterans, and member of numerous other lineage and heritage > societies. > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ > page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message

DNA may be close but will never be the same except in the case of identical twins. Joyce On Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:47:16 EDT SherryeW@aol.com writes: > I don't believe DNA can ever replace the paper lineage, mainly > because (at > this point) it cannot prove you are descended from a specific > individual. For > example male Howland descendants of John Howland would have the same > or > similar DNA results as those of Arthur Howland because they are > brothers. One is > a Mayflower line and one is not. I believe they are accepting (or > soon will > be) DNA results in addition to paper lineages, to be used as > confirmation the > paper lineage is genetically correct. > > Sherrye > > In a message dated 7/21/2008 3:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > mayflower-request@rootsweb.com writes: > > Dna is irrefutable evidence for establishing the male Y line > carrier > > > > > **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up > for > FanHouse Fantasy Football today. > (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020) > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ > page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > Southern Heart Ranch www.southernheartranch.com Herd Reduction Sale AMHA-AMHR AMHR Broodmares-Young Mares-Colts-Stallions-Geldings All ages and sizes

I would guess that most applicants with Y-DNA results would need additional documented evidence because, from what I understand, the Y-DNA is the same for brothers, straight-line uncles and male cousins of a common ancestor. A perfect example of this would be the Howland brothers, only one of which (John), arrived on the Mayflower.

I don't believe DNA can ever replace the paper lineage, mainly because (at this point) it cannot prove you are descended from a specific individual. For example male Howland descendants of John Howland would have the same or similar DNA results as those of Arthur Howland because they are brothers. One is a Mayflower line and one is not. I believe they are accepting (or soon will be) DNA results in addition to paper lineages, to be used as confirmation the paper lineage is genetically correct. Sherrye In a message dated 7/21/2008 3:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, mayflower-request@rootsweb.com writes: Dna is irrefutable evidence for establishing the male Y line carrier **************Get fantasy football with free live scoring. Sign up for FanHouse Fantasy Football today. (http://www.fanhouse.com/fantasyaffair?ncid=aolspr00050000000020)

Not necessarily...: http://www.al.com/news/birminghamnews/index.ssf?/base/news/120306702086760.xml&coll=2 > To: mayflower@rootsweb.com > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 15:20:44 -0500 > From: southern_heart_ranch@juno.com > Subject: Re: [MFLR] DNA and Application Process > > DNA may be close but will never be the same except in the case of > identical twins. > Joyce >

Hi Sherrye, In some cases, albeit rare, Y-DNA CAN identify a specific ancestor, as it does with Samuel Fuller's line. His line has a rare mutation, DYS 393=12 where his brother Edward, and his cousins, have a DYS 393=13. I do not know whether Dr. Samuel himself had this mutation, but can tell you with 100% certainty that his son, Samuel did because he passed it on to his sons. http://www.ourfamilyorigins.com/mayflowerfullersdnaproject.htm Kind regards, Katherine Hope Borges Fuller DNA Project Administrator > From: SherryeW@aol.com > Date: Mon, 21 Jul 2008 14:47:16 -0400 > To: mayflower@rootsweb.com > Subject: Re: [MFLR] DNA and Application Process > > I don't believe DNA can ever replace the paper lineage, mainly because (at > this point) it cannot prove you are descended from a specific individual. For > example male Howland descendants of John Howland would have the same or > similar DNA results as those of Arthur Howland because they are brothers. One is > a Mayflower line and one is not. I believe they are accepting (or soon will > be) DNA results in addition to paper lineages, to be used as confirmation the > paper lineage is genetically correct. > > Sherrye > > In a message dated 7/21/2008 3:01:42 A.M. Eastern Daylight Time, > mayflower-request@rootsweb.com writes: > > Dna is irrefutable evidence for establishing the male Y line carrier >

The Mayflower did accept one or possibly 2 applications using DNA to prove the lineage; however, the use of DNA is on a case-by-case basis at this point. It is, as far as I know, only accepting Y-DNA if it does accept any at all. Therefore, if you are skirting between a male and female line and it is not a male direct, then there is a possibility it will be more difficult for them to accept the results of any DNA testing. However, if one is considering this because of the lack of evidence (primary or even secondary) on one particuilar line and the DNA results do prove to confirm the lineage, then I would suggest a check with your particular state Historian and working with him or her to find out if they will accept a DNA test is in order. Sometimes the state Historian will offer helpful pointers for proving your line through a document chain that you hadn't thought about before. I know mine did as she wanted to "put the nail in the coffin" so to speak to be sure the line was accepted. I, myself had one individual who was very hard to get clear and identifiable proof of her parentage. She only appeared with her parents in the 1850 census as a 2 year old. Her father was 61 and her mother was 20. At first glance, one might assume the 61 year old was perhaps a grandfather because of the wide spread in ages. The 1850 census doesn't state relationships. I learned that he was listed last in the family rather than as head was because he had died in the census year so he wasn't listed on any mortality schedule which was for those folks who had died in 1849. I had learned there was a probate, so got that and it definitely named the 20 year old as being the wife and she had asked for her dower for herself and her daughter, which was paid out just before she died. Have never learned what the cause of death was and found out she had actually died in a different town. Why? Don't know. Then I learned that the daughter went to Illinois with a half brother who was single. Why? Don't know. But the historian had me check for a guardianship paper, which I hadn't even thought about. Lo and behold, there was a document, which was even more confusing though I know it was her due to the fact her guardian was her half sister's husband. Her father had been married previously and had grown children when she was born. Her father was buried with his first wife and I have yet to find a grave for her mother. Anyway, this great-great grandmother had a continum of names that she used when the occasion suited her. But it was the guardianship that was the nail, so to speak, that chinched the case because I was able to provide documentation for the first family of her father that proved her guardian was her half sister's husband and made the line follow up the ladder into the silver books. She was 7th generation and her father was 6th generation from both Richard Warren and Francis Eaton, my two lines. It is generally these two generations that are the hardest for people to prove because of the lack of records being kept, particularly if they weren't living in Massachusetts, which mine were. Many states have very bad records for these generations. It was probably, in the case of the individual who was accepted by the Society, these two generations that were lacking in documentation. Everything behind that down to that individual was documented and of course, the first five generations were in the books. The person in question had a difficult time finding documentation so the Society allowed for the DNA test to be run and accepted its results. As I said, it is on a case by case basis, not an absolute that DNA is being allowed for membership. They acknowledge the existence of DNA, but since it is a somewhat inexact science for proving lineage, that's the reason it is on a case by case. I know that many criminals are convicted on the basis of DNA, but that is because the results of it is to rule in rather than to rule out. Your DNA, depending on your race, can give the results as 1 in some godzillion number and that means you are in that number if you are white. If the gozillion number is lower, then I think the chances of you being ruled out is much better. I'm no expert in DNA, but I've been watching a few cases on Court TV where the person on the witness stand who runs those sorts of tests gives the numbers and it seems that the bigger the godzillion number is, the chances are that it fits the profile of the defendant, meaning, he's the only one whose DNA it could be. Conviction is almost sure to follow unless there is some evidence that proves otherwise and the jury believes that evidence more strongly than the fact that that individual's DNA was on the victim or in the vicinity of the crime. Christie Trapp

A non-Mayflower example is the Sally Hemmings case, it only proves decent from one of 27 Jefferson men. Becuase of time frame it can be narrowed down but even then I don't think it gets necessarily locked into Thomas Jefferson though evidence is heavy there. Ernie On Mon, Jul 21, 2008 at 11:04 AM, <wjsmith@optonline.net> wrote: > I would guess that most applicants with Y-DNA results would need additional > documented evidence because, from what I understand, the Y-DNA is the same > for brothers, straight-line uncles and male cousins of a common ancestor. A > perfect example of this would be the Howland brothers, only one of which > (John), arrived on the Mayflower. > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page > for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Ernest Everett Blevins, MFA • Blevins Historical Research 110 Evergreen Way • Villa Rica, Georgia 30180 blevins@alumni.cofc.edu • 770-456-1876 Historic Preservation Consultant -- Historical and Architectural Research -- Genealogical (Family) Research -- Preservation Planning and Documentation -- House History Member: American Planning Association, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Sons of the American Revolution, Sons of Confederate Veterans, Sons of Union Veterans, and member of numerous other lineage and heritage societies.

To clarify my previous query. I was NOT suggesting that GSMD/SOMD WOULD use DNA evidence in lieu of the traditional, documented historical evidence, BUT rather as a supplement to that evidence. The most likely use would probably be of the yDNA (male only side of the pedigree rather than mtDNA). It's restrictive, however, in that it requires an unbroken male pedigree for a surname: a test subject with that surname, and MOST IMPORTANTLY a same surnamed male with a proven GSMD/SOMD pedigree.

Bill: I am a few days away from another visit to Plymouth. I will check oput your request however, It would come as a surprise to me and I am sure to many others to learn of a Mayflower scheme to accept dna evidence in lieu of hard copy lineage documentation. There are several individual Mayflower family groups managing dna projects of their own but no Society of Mayflower Descendants dna project or acceptance policy that I know of. I am a project mmanager for a family dna project. I have three Mayflower family lines, all Mayflower mtdna gained by marriages where Mayflower ladies married into the Crippen family Y chromosome. How would one apply for membership when descending from one of the Mayflower daughters ? Dna is irrefutable evidence for establishing the male Y line carrier but not too valuable for identifying the daughters, their marriages and their children. If you learn of a S O M D dna acceptance plan, please advise. Regards, JC3 On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 7:06 AM, W V <wgvh2@yahoo.com> wrote: > Has anyone had experience with the SOMD appplication process and the use of > DNA testing to evidence a MAYFLOWER pedigree back to a MAYFLOWER ancestor ? > > Here I am wondering about the standards of evidence required from the DNA > results. How any markers to test, how many matches, etc ? > > Has SOMD set-up standards for this type application and are they published > anywhere ? > > Along those same lines, has anyone successfully 'done' an application and > had it accepted ? Any advice ? > > Thanks, Bill VH > > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page > for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

I"m guessing SOMD is Society of Mayflower Descendants (more commonlly noted as GSMD for General Soceity of Mayflower Descendants). I don't think DNA standards have been set up yet becuase in part it would depend on what generation you are using it for and what other evidence there is. Ernie On Sun, Jul 20, 2008 at 7:06 AM, W V <wgvh2@yahoo.com> wrote: > Has anyone had experience with the SOMD appplication process and the use of > DNA testing to evidence a MAYFLOWER pedigree back to a MAYFLOWER ancestor ? > > Here I am wondering about the standards of evidence required from the DNA > results. How any markers to test, how many matches, etc ? > > Has SOMD set-up standards for this type application and are they published > anywhere ? > > Along those same lines, has anyone successfully 'done' an application and > had it accepted ? Any advice ? > > Thanks, Bill VH > > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page > for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Ernest Everett Blevins, MFA • Blevins Historical Research 110 Evergreen Way • Villa Rica, Georgia 30180 blevins@alumni.cofc.edu • 770-456-1876 Historic Preservation Consultant -- Historical and Architectural Research -- Genealogical (Family) Research -- Preservation Planning and Documentation -- House History Member: American Planning Association, New England Historic Genealogical Society, Sons of the American Revolution, Sons of Confederate Veterans, Sons of Union Veterans, and member of numerous other lineage and heritage societies.

Has anyone had experience with the SOMD appplication process and the use of DNA testing to evidence a MAYFLOWER pedigree back to a MAYFLOWER ancestor ? Here I am wondering about the standards of evidence required from the DNA results. How any markers to test, how many matches, etc ? Has SOMD set-up standards for this type application and are they published anywhere ? Along those same lines, has anyone successfully 'done' an application and had it accepted ? Any advice ? Thanks, Bill VH

At 06:25 PM 7/19/2008, John wrote: >m. int. Rochester, MA ; Int 30 Nov 1755; Rochester VR 2: 268 > >Anyone know what "int" means? Ii stands for "intention of marriage." Massachusetts couples have always had to declare their intent to marry in advance of the wedding. In early times that was done by having it announced from the pulpit three Sundays in a row, or by posting written notice in a public place such as the town common, or by recording the intention with the Town Clerk as was undoubtedly done in this case. Nowadays the intention is accomplished by both prospective spouses filling out a marriage intention form and paying a fee at the City or Town Hall of the municipality where they intend to wed. The marriage license can be issued on the fourth day after the intention is executed. >are Rochester Vital Records published in available volumes 1, 2, etc.? Rochester VR was published in two volumes, births in the first, marriages and deaths in the second. >What about: Tingley 434. I assume page 434 of something. Here are some possibilities: Marian McCauley Frye, "The Tingley Family Revised: Being a Record of the Descendants of Samuel Tingley of Malden, Mass. In Both the Male and Female Lines (-1666)," 6 Vols. (Ann Arbor, MI: The Author, 1970-1988) Raymon Meyers Tingley, "The Tingley Family: Being a Record of the Descendants of Samuel Tingley of Malden, Mass. in Both the Male and Female Lines" (Rutland, VT.: Tuttle Publishing Co., 1910). Raymon Meyers Tingley, "Some Ancestral Lines: Being a Record of Some of the Ancestors of Guilford Solon Tingley and His Wife, Martha Pamelia Meyers" (Rutland, VT.: Tuttle Publishing Co., 1935). George A. Tingley and Orval C. Tingley, "The Tingley Genealogy Dated from 1666" (No location or publisher, 1938?) Witter Kinney Tingley, "Obituaries: George Robert Harris, M.D., Norwich" (New Haven, CT: S. Converse, 1910) Witter Kinney Tingley, "Obituaries: Patrick Henry Harriman, M.D., Norwich" (New Haven, CT: S. Converse, 1912) The context of the citation might indicate which of those it is. >Burlington Co., NJ PR w/#51196. Burlington County, New Jersey, Probate File #51196. >Will the society provide the full references upon request? I expect that the HG might clarify the obscure ones, such as "Tingley." Experienced researchers have no problems resolving most of the reference abbreviations in applications. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project Administrator of http://plymouthcolony.net ____________________________________________________________ Give your kids a head start with a great educational toy. Click now. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3nczdmLdP7HUk2QKsTD5fnjj5DlanrxMvHTA17WplVHP9vdT/

On an accepted lineage I purchased from the Mayflower Society I see: m. int. Rochester, MA ; Int 30 Nov 1755; Rochester VR 2: 268 Anyone know what "int" means? Also, I don't know what all the References are on the paper, they didn't provide the full reference. Many I can guess, many I cannot. e.g. are Rochester Vital Records published in available volumes 1, 2, etc.? What about: Tingley 434. I assume page 434 of something. And: Burlington Co., NJ PR w/#51196. PR=Public Records? 51196 another approved MD form? Will the society provide the full references upon request? It seems like they should do that for the first paid request. We all know how important proper references are. ;-) Thanks, John

At 01:41 PM 7/19/2008, Robert L. Ward wrote: >The series consists of these: Note that these are all new scans. Volumes 6, 9, 11 and 12 have been available from Google Books for some time, as noted in Harlow Chandler's post of 06-Nov-2006 and my follow-up to it. There were problems with those scans, including missing, cropped and hard-to-read pages, which I reported to Google. All of those deficiencies appear to be resolved by the new scans. Volumes 7 and 8 were not available as recently as earlier this year, and so are new additions. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project Administrator of http://plymouthcolony.net ____________________________________________________________ Compete with the big boys. Click here to find products to benefit your business. http://thirdpartyoffers.juno.com/TGL2141/fc/Ioyw6i3m7tDN0cDMN6BAPF3aEey9IWz5ldtZgTINGNGhCIAGBpmIUF/

The PCR 12 vols. (bound in ten) were published from 1855-1861. I own a set. When I have finished transcribing the unpublished volumes (the other twelve), I intend to issue all 24 on CD-rom. This is a project that will take some years, still. On another topic, somewhat related, the Leiden American Pilgrim Museum has a new website: http://www.rootsweb.ancestry.com/~netlapm It may work better if you hit the F11 key. with best wishes, Jeremy Bangs Leiden "Robert L. Ward" <Robert@RLWard.com> wrote: >All, > >At 09:20 AM 11/6/2006, Harlow Chandler wrote: >>This is addressed especially to any of you who have mastered the >>search at Google Books. >> >>Among the many treasures now online through this Google service >>(including such things as the tans series MA VR and many local >>histories available as free PDF downloads, peeks into MD and lots >>more) there is AT LEAST volume one of Nathaniel Bradstreet >>Shurtleff, David Pulsifer_Records of the Colony of New Plymouth, in >>New England_(Press of W. White, 1855) >> >>This is the deeds book, so it's a good one to have (this one is not >>in PDF for download, but you can read it online). >> >>But, what about the other 11 volumes? Are they also available here? >> >>I have not been able to find them, but I have not put a lot of >>effort into it yet, partly because I have tried this with the Essex >>Antiquarian. For anyone interested, the Essex Antiquarian is also >>available, but this time as a PDF download too, through Google >>Books. I tried to find every volume, but I have been able only to >>find about half of them, and even when I search by publishing year I >>get frustrating results. But there are other avenues for that >>particular work--it's PCR that I'm lusting after at the moment. >> >>I won't describe my problems with the search at Google Books, but if >>someone knows how to find the other 11 volumes of PCR, assuming that >>they are there, it would be an immense service to the list if an >>explanation were posted here. >> >>Would you like to have free online access to PCR from home any time? >> >>I thought so. >> >>If someone knows or can find out if Google Books really has that, >>please let us all know. > >I searched using the advanced search feature of Google Books, for the >title "Records of the Colony of New Plymouth". That returned a >single result. I went to it. Then I scrolled down to the section >for "Other Editions", and clicked on the "more" link. That gave me >access to six other volumes. The series consists of these: > >v.1.- Court orders 1633-1640 >v.2 - Court orders 1641-1651 >v.3 - Court orders 1651-1661 >v.4 - Court orders 1661-1668 >v.5 - Court orders >1668-1678 http://books.google.com/books?id=bsASAAAAYAAJ >v.6 - Court orders >1678-1691 http://books.google.com/books?id=p8ASAAAAYAAJ >V.7 - Judicial acts >1636-1692 http://books.google.com/books?id=9cASAAAAYAAJ >v.8 - Misc. records >1633-1689 http://books.google.com/books?id=HsESAAAAYAAJ >v.9 - Acts of the Commissioners >1643-1651 http://books.google.com/books?id=JOwUAAAAYAAJ >v.10 - Acts of the Commissioners 1653-1679 >v.11 - Laws >1623-1682 http://books.google.com/books?id=rkEOAAAAIAAJ >v.12 - Deeds & c. >1620-1651 http://books.google.com/books?id=0dgUAAAAYAAJ > >That's seven of the 12 volumes available on-line. All these can be >downloaded as .pdf files, or read on-line. Volume 8 is the one with >births, marriages, and deaths. Volumes 11 and 12 have deeds, among >other things. > >Apparently the others are not available yet through Google Books. > >Regards, > >Robert > >Mr. Robert L. Ward >12236 Shadetree Lane, Laurel, MD 20708-2832 >301-776-1659 >Robert@RLWard.com >http://mysite.verizon.net/vzetkjpc/robertlward/index.html > > >Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

All, At 09:20 AM 11/6/2006, Harlow Chandler wrote: >This is addressed especially to any of you who have mastered the >search at Google Books. > >Among the many treasures now online through this Google service >(including such things as the tans series MA VR and many local >histories available as free PDF downloads, peeks into MD and lots >more) there is AT LEAST volume one of Nathaniel Bradstreet >Shurtleff, David Pulsifer_Records of the Colony of New Plymouth, in >New England_(Press of W. White, 1855) > >This is the deeds book, so it's a good one to have (this one is not >in PDF for download, but you can read it online). > >But, what about the other 11 volumes? Are they also available here? > >I have not been able to find them, but I have not put a lot of >effort into it yet, partly because I have tried this with the Essex >Antiquarian. For anyone interested, the Essex Antiquarian is also >available, but this time as a PDF download too, through Google >Books. I tried to find every volume, but I have been able only to >find about half of them, and even when I search by publishing year I >get frustrating results. But there are other avenues for that >particular work--it's PCR that I'm lusting after at the moment. > >I won't describe my problems with the search at Google Books, but if >someone knows how to find the other 11 volumes of PCR, assuming that >they are there, it would be an immense service to the list if an >explanation were posted here. > >Would you like to have free online access to PCR from home any time? > >I thought so. > >If someone knows or can find out if Google Books really has that, >please let us all know. I searched using the advanced search feature of Google Books, for the title "Records of the Colony of New Plymouth". That returned a single result. I went to it. Then I scrolled down to the section for "Other Editions", and clicked on the "more" link. That gave me access to six other volumes. The series consists of these: v.1.- Court orders 1633-1640 v.2 - Court orders 1641-1651 v.3 - Court orders 1651-1661 v.4 - Court orders 1661-1668 v.5 - Court orders 1668-1678 http://books.google.com/books?id=bsASAAAAYAAJ v.6 - Court orders 1678-1691 http://books.google.com/books?id=p8ASAAAAYAAJ V.7 - Judicial acts 1636-1692 http://books.google.com/books?id=9cASAAAAYAAJ v.8 - Misc. records 1633-1689 http://books.google.com/books?id=HsESAAAAYAAJ v.9 - Acts of the Commissioners 1643-1651 http://books.google.com/books?id=JOwUAAAAYAAJ v.10 - Acts of the Commissioners 1653-1679 v.11 - Laws 1623-1682 http://books.google.com/books?id=rkEOAAAAIAAJ v.12 - Deeds & c. 1620-1651 http://books.google.com/books?id=0dgUAAAAYAAJ That's seven of the 12 volumes available on-line. All these can be downloaded as .pdf files, or read on-line. Volume 8 is the one with births, marriages, and deaths. Volumes 11 and 12 have deeds, among other things. Apparently the others are not available yet through Google Books. Regards, Robert Mr. Robert L. Ward 12236 Shadetree Lane, Laurel, MD 20708-2832 301-776-1659 Robert@RLWard.com http://mysite.verizon.net/vzetkjpc/robertlward/index.html

Congratulations on publishing your Cobb genealogy. I subscribe to the Gen----whichever one you posted in--and usually I just go through now and delete them because I don't open them, but don't want to unsubscribe because there just might come a day when I need to see if a book I want or need is for sale. Anyway, by accident I didn't hit the delete button one day and it opened. I glanced through the subjects and saw HENRY COBB--went down to the posting -- discovered it was you! Wow! As I wrote a while ago -- you should have waded through my ramblings by now to read this one -- we've got a bit of a financial headache that we're trying to get out from under. Save me a copy because I want to buy one -- eventually. Again, congratulations on publishing you Cobb genealogies. Hope they are a financial sucess for you. Christie and Bob

This is true, I've found emails from my historian in my junk mail folder too. Janean -----Original Message----- From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of jabg@aol.com Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 5:51 PM To: mayflower@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MFLR] active state society contacts John, I don't know the particulars of how you communicated with the state person, but just this week I took a look at my spam folder before permanently deleting everything?in it and found two messages that had been sent by Plymouth there. For some reason AOL had classified them as spam because of the address. If that is how you communicated with the state historian then you might want to give a telephone call in case the same thing has happened to them. Judy Goldbaum DE Historian -----Original Message----- From: Grace Bliss Smith <GraceMI@comcast.net> To: mayflower@rootsweb.com Sent: Thu, 3 Jul 2008 12:18 pm Subject: Re: [MFLR] active state society contacts I think our state society is one of the best! Our historians are, in a word, outstanding. I don't wish to give them more work, but perhaps they would be willing to offer advice. Check our leadership page at http://www.michmayflower.org/leader.htm Grace Smith, Ph.D., Webmaster Secretary Society of Mayflower Descendants in Michigan http://www.michmayflower.org/ -----Original Message----- From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 11:18 AM To: mayflower@rootsweb.com Subject: [MFLR] active state society contacts Hello, I submitted a draft line to the central MF group 3 or 4 months ago. They confirmed the first 8 generations and routed me to a state person, but that person never replies. I wrote back to the central MF group, and they said I could work with any state person saying some groups are more active than others. So... (I'll leave my state out of it) does anyone have any recommendation for what state I should try? (any volunteers? ;-) ) Thanks, John Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.524 / Virus Database: 270.4.4/1530 - Release Date: 7/2/2008 8:05 AM

http://www.michmayflower.org/ -----Original Message----- From: mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mayflower-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of John Sent: Thursday, July 03, 2008 3:41 PM To: mayflower@rootsweb.com Subject: [MFLR] http://www.mayflowersociety.org/ web error I just went to http://www.mayflowersociety.org/ and I get: ================================ Great Success ! Apache is working on your cPanelR and WHMT Server If you can see this page, then the people who manage this server have installed cPanel and WebHost Manager (WHM) which use the Apache Web server software and the Apache Interface to OpenSSL (mod_ssl) successfully. They now have to add content to this directory and replace this placeholder page, or else point the server at their real content. ATTENTION! If you are seeing this page instead of the site you expected, please contact the administrator of the site involved. (Try sending an email to <webmaster@domain>.) Although this site is running cPanel, WebHost Manager, and Apache software it almost certainly has no other connection to cPanel Inc. or the Apache Group. Please do not send mail about this site or its contents to cPanel Inc. or the Apache Group. About cPanel: cPanel is a leading provider of software for the webhosting industry. If you would like to learn more about cPanel please visit our website at www.cpanel.net. Please be advised that cPanel Inc. is not a web hosting company, and as such has no control over content found elsewhere on this site. About Apache HTTP Server: The Apache HTTP Server is an open source web server which powers many of the worlds web sites. The Apache HTTP server is part of the Apache Group's many influential projects. Their efforts have helped shape much the world wide web, and they continue to be a dominating force in the web hosting industry. ======================================================= I am running FireFox 3.0 on Mac OS X (10.5.3). What is wrong? Thanks, John Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message