In a message dated 5/10/2002 6:32:36 AM Pacific Daylight Time, mazie@adelphia.net writes: << - Richard Warren (d. 1728) m. Elizabeth - Mary Warren (b. 1610) m. Robert Bartlett (b. 27 May 1603) - Mercy Bartlett (b. 10 Mar 1650) m. John Joy (b. 10 Aug 1644) - Joseph John Jay (b. 30 Sep 1672) m. Mary Ann Orchard - John Jay (b. 1715) m. ? - David Jay m. - Thomas Jay (b. 28 Jan 1779) m. Abishiba Morse (b. 15 May 1773) - Elizabeth Jay (b. 5 Oct 1807) m. James Pennell (b. 1 Jul 1802) - Nancy Pennell (b. 8 Nov 1831) m. William Wigfield (b. 1814) Has anyone on the list used this or part of this lineage to become a member of the Society? The John Joy that married Mercy Bartlett, I have seen listed as John Ivey, Jay amd Joy. Has this been determined to be "fact"? Thanks in advance for any assistance. Sincerely, Tim Cooper >> Tim: According to The Joy Genealogy by Helen Bourne Joy Lee it states the following for the John who married Mercy Bartlett: John b. Boston Mass 10 Aug 1641, pb Oct 1641 First Ch Boston, prob killed in King Philip's War. Named in grfather John Gallop's will 1649, not in father's will 1677. A John Joy m. Mercy, had son John b Boston 30 Sept 1672. A John Jay of Mass served with Mass in King Philip's War 1675-76 (His of King Philip's War, George M. Bodge; estate of John Joy of Marblehead Essex Co Prob Recs 1729-30.) Now in the Richard Warren silver book it states thusly: Mercy Bartlett b. Plymouth 10 Mar 1650/1. She m. Plymouth 25 Dec 1668 John Joy of Boston; perhaps the one b. Boston 10 8th mo 1641; son of Thomas and Joan (Gallop) Joy. If so, he must have died before Thomas Joy wrote his will on 8 July 1677 as he is not named in that will. No Suffolk or Plymouth Co. PR or LR for John Joy. Child: (JOY) b. Boston: John b. 30 Sept 1672; n.f.r. References: Plymouth Colony Recs 8:32(m). Boston VR 9:11(b. John), 123 (b. son John). Hingham Hist 2:396. Note Plymouth Colony Recs 8:32 and MD 3:111, 117; 18:57 all say she m. John Ivey. A recent reading of the original records by Barbara Merrick reveals that Mercy married John Joy. Having said that, I don't see how you have arrived at a surname of JAY for the son of John Joy in your lineage and then to proceed to bring the line down continuing with the spelling as JAY. What are your sources to provide a wife for John (b. 1672)? I'm curious since Thomas Joy/Joan Gallop and Richard Warren are my direct ancestors. I'm sure that other Joy researchers would be curious as well. Please provide to this list what your source is for bring your line down from this John. To that point from Richard Warren it was okay. I am questioning the Jay spelling and the information you used to arrive at providing a wife for this individual when the Mayflower Society couldn't when it published its Richard Warren 5 generations in 1999! Christie Trapp

Christie Trapp sent: May 11, 2002 7:56 PM Subject: [MFLR] Mary Howland - Timothy Williamson | Curious question to Howland or Williamson researchers. I am in the process | of entering some data I found in several volumes of the New England | Historical and Genealogical Register for 1961. | | I am following the Ezra Perry descendants and on one of the lines there is | mention a Mary Howland who married a Timothy Williamson. I have an | approximately year of birth to be about 1641 in Marshfield, MA but no other | data on them as they were listed as parents to an Elizabeth Williamson who | married a John Perry of Sandwich, Barnstable, MA about 1683. I am looking | for the dates of birth, marriage and death for Timothy and Mary. | | I am looking for an exact date of birth for Elizabeth Williamson besides | 1661, some place in Massachusetts. I have her date of death to be 23 April | 1727 in Sandwich, buried in Old Town Cemetery. | | Another curious note is that for several of her descendants it gives a | citation for volumes of the Mayflower Descendant which leads me to possibly | conclude that this Mary Howland is related to John Howland of the Mayflower, | but I have nothing to go on to put her into that line of descent. The only | sources I have are the 2 volumes of John Howland recently published for the | first two children of John Howland and Timothy Williamson is not listed in | the index so I am thinking that Mary Howland might be from one of John's | other children that has not been published yet since she is not a child of | John Howland. | | Can someone help me with the dates for these two individuals and to help me | with Mary Howland's parents? | | Christie Trapp Hi Christie, From "Descendants of Timothy Williamson" - NEHGS Register V81:72 : . "Timothy1 Wiliamson of Marshfield, Mass., born probably in England, about 1621, was killed in King Phillips War, in July or Aug. 1676. He married at Marshfield, 6 June 1653, Mary Howland, daughter of the first Arthur Howland and his wife, who was Margaret Reed, a widow" There is also an article in the Register (V126:279, 280) by Lydia B. (Phinney) Brownson and Maclean W. Mc Lean, titled, "Elizabeth (? Williamson) Perry, wife of John2 Perry of Sandwich, Mass." This article presents "convincing evidence" of the identity of John2 Perry's wife, Elizabeth as a result of the naming patterns of their children - "which is so striking to be beyond coincidence." Additional circumstantial evidence provided is the extensive marriage connections ( Prence, Freeman, Damon) between the two families. Convinced me! Richard - Descendant of John3, Elijah3, and Timothy3 Perry.

Mary Howland who m. Timothy Williamson was the d/o Arthur Howland, brother of John, and Margaret Reed/Read. Mary Howland, b. ?, d. Marshfield 26 Aug. 1690 (Marshfield VR). Timothy Williamson, b. ca. 1621, bur. Marshfield 6 Aug. 1676 (Marshfield VR). They m. Marshfield, Mass., 6 Jun. 1653. In addition to the Marshfield VRs which were published by the NEHGR, 1993, I have the following references for this family (I'm sure there are more; I just don't have them): Walter Goodwin Davis, Massachusetts and Maine Families in the Ancestry of Walter Goodwin Davis, 3 Vols., (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., Inc., 1996). Robert M. Sherman and Ruth Wilder Sherman, Vital Records of Marshfield, Massachusetts, (Camden, ME: Picton Press, 1993). Philip Howard Gray, Penobscot Pioneers: Bray, Closson, Howard, (Rockport, ME: Picton Press, 1992). George E. McCracken, "The Will of Arthur Howland, Senior, of Marshfield," New England Historic Genealogical Register, July 1950. Miss M. A. Thomas, "Deaths and Burials from the Early Records of Marshfield, Ms.," New England Historic Genealogical Register, Apr., Jul.1854. Grace Williamson Edes, "Timothy Williamson of Marshfield, Mass., and His Descendants," New England Historic Genealogical Register, July 1927, ongoing. George Ernest Bowman, "The Vital Records of Marshfield, Mass.," The Mayflower Descendant: 2:4. Karen Sullivan Visit Alden Kindred of America at http://www.alden.org/ --------------------------------- Once, on this earth, once, on this familiar spot of ground, walked other men and women, as actual as we are today, thinking their own thoughts, swayed by their own passions, but now all gone, one generation vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves shall shortly be gone like ghosts at cockcrow.-- G.M.Trevelyan -----Original Message----- From: ChristieTrapp@aol.com [mailto:ChristieTrapp@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, May 11, 2002 7:56 PM To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MFLR] Mary Howland - Timothy Williamson Curious question to Howland or Williamson researchers. I am in the process of entering some data I found in several volumes of the New England Historical and Genealogical Register for 1961. I am following the Ezra Perry descendants and on one of the lines there is mention a Mary Howland who married a Timothy Williamson. I have an approximately year of birth to be about 1641 in Marshfield, MA but no other data on them as they were listed as parents to an Elizabeth Williamson who married a John Perry of Sandwich, Barnstable, MA about 1683. I am looking for the dates of birth, marriage and death for Timothy and Mary. I am looking for an exact date of birth for Elizabeth Williamson besides 1661, some place in Massachusetts. I have her date of death to be 23 April 1727 in Sandwich, buried in Old Town Cemetery. Another curious note is that for several of her descendants it gives a citation for volumes of the Mayflower Descendant which leads me to possibly conclude that this Mary Howland is related to John Howland of the Mayflower, but I have nothing to go on to put her into that line of descent. The only sources I have are the 2 volumes of John Howland recently published for the first two children of John Howland and Timothy Williamson is not listed in the index so I am thinking that Mary Howland might be from one of John's other children that has not been published yet since she is not a child of John Howland. Can someone help me with the dates for these two individuals and to help me with Mary Howland's parents? Christie Trapp ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== Check out the web page of the General Society of Mayflower Descendants at http://www.mayflower.org/

Curious question to Howland or Williamson researchers. I am in the process of entering some data I found in several volumes of the New England Historical and Genealogical Register for 1961. I am following the Ezra Perry descendants and on one of the lines there is mention a Mary Howland who married a Timothy Williamson. I have an approximately year of birth to be about 1641 in Marshfield, MA but no other data on them as they were listed as parents to an Elizabeth Williamson who married a John Perry of Sandwich, Barnstable, MA about 1683. I am looking for the dates of birth, marriage and death for Timothy and Mary. I am looking for an exact date of birth for Elizabeth Williamson besides 1661, some place in Massachusetts. I have her date of death to be 23 April 1727 in Sandwich, buried in Old Town Cemetery. Another curious note is that for several of her descendants it gives a citation for volumes of the Mayflower Descendant which leads me to possibly conclude that this Mary Howland is related to John Howland of the Mayflower, but I have nothing to go on to put her into that line of descent. The only sources I have are the 2 volumes of John Howland recently published for the first two children of John Howland and Timothy Williamson is not listed in the index so I am thinking that Mary Howland might be from one of John's other children that has not been published yet since she is not a child of John Howland. Can someone help me with the dates for these two individuals and to help me with Mary Howland's parents? Christie Trapp

In a message dated 5/10/02 9:32:36 AM Eastern Daylight Time, mazie@adelphia.net writes: << Richard Warren (d. 1728) m. Elizabeth - Mary Warren (b. 1610) m. Robert Bartlett (b. 27 May 1603) - Mercy Bartlett (b. 10 Mar 1650) m. John Joy (b. 10 Aug 1644) - Joseph John Jay (b. 30 Sep 1672) m. Mary Ann Orchard - John Jay (b. 1715) m. ? - David Jay m. - Thomas Jay (b. 28 Jan 1779) m. Abishiba Morse (b. 15 May 1773) - Elizabeth Jay (b. 5 Oct 1807) m. James Pennell (b. 1 Jul 1802) - Nancy Pennell (b. 8 Nov 1831) m. William Wigfield (b. 1814) Has anyone on the list used this or part of this lineage to become a member of the Society? The John Joy that married Mercy Bartlett, I have seen listed as John Ivey, Jay amd Joy. Has this been determined to be "fact"? >> Hi Tim ~ The Richard WARREN "silver book" V.18, part 1 says: 16. Mercy Bartlett3 (Mary2 Warren, Richard1) b. Plymouth 10 March 1650/1. She m. Plymouth 25 Dec. 1668 John Joy of Boston; perhaps the one b. Boston 10 8th mo. 1641; son of Thomas and Joan (Gallop) Joy. If so, he must have died before Thomas Joy wrote his will on 8 July 1677 as he is not named in that will. No Suffolk or Plymouth Co. PR or LR for John Joy. Child (Joy) b. Boston: i. John4 b. 30 Sept. 1672; n.f.r. References: Plymouth Colony Recs 8:32 (m.). Boston VR 9:11 (b. John), 123 (b. son John). Hingham Hist. 2: 396. Plymouth VR p. 666 (m.). Note: Plymouth Colony Recs. 8:32 and MD 3:111, 117; 18:57 all say she m. John Ivey. A recent reading of the original record by Barbara Merrick reveals that Mercy married John Joy. Hope this helps, Dianne

Greetings and salutations! I would like to ask several questions regarding the following lineage: - Richard Warren (d. 1728) m. Elizabeth - Mary Warren (b. 1610) m. Robert Bartlett (b. 27 May 1603) - Mercy Bartlett (b. 10 Mar 1650) m. John Joy (b. 10 Aug 1644) - Joseph John Jay (b. 30 Sep 1672) m. Mary Ann Orchard - John Jay (b. 1715) m. ? - David Jay m. - Thomas Jay (b. 28 Jan 1779) m. Abishiba Morse (b. 15 May 1773) - Elizabeth Jay (b. 5 Oct 1807) m. James Pennell (b. 1 Jul 1802) - Nancy Pennell (b. 8 Nov 1831) m. William Wigfield (b. 1814) Has anyone on the list used this or part of this lineage to become a member of the Society? The John Joy that married Mercy Bartlett, I have seen listed as John Ivey, Jay amd Joy. Has this been determined to be "fact"? Thanks in advance for any assistance. Sincerely, Tim Cooper

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/151.1 Message Board Post: The following page has some information about the ancestry of Richard Rogers: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~verveleen/Main.htm

On 9 May 2002 06:03:23 -0600 Bridget1939@cs.com writes: > Could anyone tell me if there was a Richard Rogers(4th generation) > who had Esther, Letitia,Nellie, Tamar, and Amos? If so what can you > tell me about Tamar? The earliest Richard shown in the Bowman Files is the 6th generation one born 17-May-1728 Harwich. I don't see any of the children's names listed in the Files except for Esther, and that one was a Rogers wife, not a Rogers child. Dale H. Cook, Chief Engineer, WWWR Roanoke VA, WCQV Moneta VA, WKBA WZZI Vinton VA, WKPA WLNI WLVA WZZU Lynchburg VA

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Rogers, Ireland Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/151 Message Board Post: Could anyone tell me if there was a Richard Rogers(4th generation) who had Esther, Letitia,Nellie, Tamar, and Amos? If so what can you tell me about Tamar?Thanks

There are quite a few places that talk about Churchill's ancestry and question the Mayflower parts. This is one that is interesting because it gives a case for and a case against. http://www.winstonchurchill.org/fh111despatch.htm Dianna At 02:56 PM 5/8/2002 +0000, you wrote: >This message appeared on the GEN-MEDIEVAL list. >Anyone know the answer? > >Thanks - >Muffy Moore >---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- >From: "John Steele Gordon" <ancestry@optonline.net> >To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Churchill's Mayflower Ancestry (OT--by 20 years) >Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:21:50 GMT > >I was at a lunch yesterday where Winston Churchill, grandson of the prime >minister, spoke. He mentioned that his grandfather was descended from three >Mayflower passengers. > >Would anyone know off hand which three these are? > >Thanks, > >JSG > > > >==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== >Check out the web page of the General Society of Mayflower Descendants at http://www.mayflower.org/ > >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/150.1 Message Board Post: You asked: "I would like to know if anyone can give me information about Mary Dotey - Zebulon Sutton 1707" The Mayflower Society publication _Mayflower Families Through Five Generations, V.11, pt. 2,(1996) [Edward Doty through Thomas2, Samuel2, Desire2, Elizabeth2 - by Peter B. Hill] says there is no evidence of this marriage and that it is not likely to have occurred.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Marriage Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/150 Message Board Post: I would like to know if anyone can give me information about Mary Dotey - Zebulon Sutton 1707 Nehemiah Sutton- ? Nehimiah Sutton Jr. -Jane Brown. Thank you.

In a message dated 5/8/02 10:57:49 AM Eastern Daylight Time, muffy.moore@attbi.com writes: > This message appeared on the GEN-MEDIEVAL list. > Anyone know the answer? > > Thanks - > Muffy Moore > ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- > From: "John Steele Gordon" <ancestry@optonline.net> > To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: Churchill's Mayflower Ancestry (OT--by 20 years) > Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:21:50 GMT > > I was at a lunch yesterday where Winston Churchill, grandson of the prime > minister, spoke. He mentioned that his grandfather was descended from three > Mayflower passengers. > > Would anyone know off hand which three these are? This was covered some time ago in a discussion concerning notable individuals with Mayflower ancestry. Sir Winston Churchill has no proven lineal descent from any Mayflower passengers. However, he is a descendant of Arthur, brother of Mayflower passenger John Howland. Rick in MA (a descendant of Chilton, Cooke, Hopkins, Soule and Warren) "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."---The Declaration of Independence "I love the word 'friends'. It means so much, for we are, and should be, friends for the glory of God and the salvation of the world."---Alice C. Winslow (1856-1927), 1913

This message appeared on the GEN-MEDIEVAL list. Anyone know the answer? Thanks - Muffy Moore ---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- From: "John Steele Gordon" <ancestry@optonline.net> To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com Subject: Churchill's Mayflower Ancestry (OT--by 20 years) Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:21:50 GMT I was at a lunch yesterday where Winston Churchill, grandson of the prime minister, spoke. He mentioned that his grandfather was descended from three Mayflower passengers. Would anyone know off hand which three these are? Thanks, JSG

***-----Original Message----- ***From: muffy.moore@attbi.com [mailto:muffy.moore@attbi.com] ***Sent: Wednesday, May 08, 2002 10:56 AM ***To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com ***Subject: [MFLR] Churchill's Mayflower Ancestry *** *** ***This message appeared on the GEN-MEDIEVAL list. ***Anyone know the answer? *** ***Thanks - ***Muffy Moore ***---------------------- Forwarded Message: --------------------- ***From: "John Steele Gordon" <ancestry@optonline.net> ***To: GEN-MEDIEVAL-L@rootsweb.com ***Subject: Churchill's Mayflower Ancestry (OT--by 20 years) ***Date: Wed, 08 May 2002 12:21:50 GMT *** ***I was at a lunch yesterday where Winston Churchill, grandson of the prime ***minister, spoke. He mentioned that his grandfather was descended ***from three ***Mayflower passengers. *** ***Would anyone know off hand which three these are? *** ***Thanks, *** ***JSG Well, no, not "off hand," but I did look it up. This website, relying on perhaps not the best of sources, names Francis Cooke, son John and John's father-in-law Richard Warren. However they include a caveat. http://www.winstonchurchill.org/fh104us.htm "The suggestion has been advanced that Elizabeth may have been the second wife of Daniel Willcox‹therefore only the step-mother of Daniel Jr.‹in which case the direct link to the Mayflower would not be valid." If I understand my Cooke and Warren MFIP books, and there's a good chance I don't, Daniel Jr is not considered a son of Elizabeth Cooke and Daniel Wilcox. Poor Winston--his reputation has been in considerable decline recently, and now this crushing blow.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: ROGERS, NICKERSON, RAYMOND, HATHAWAY Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/144.2.1 Message Board Post: It would help if The Mayflower Society web site mentioned the $5 fee on the "Proposed Application Review Form". I sent in a completed form for my wife's line with a SASE and all I got back was a blank copy of the same form (still no mention of the $5 dollar fee) and info on joining the society. I tossed it in the trash and chaulked up my experience as a waste of time, stamp and an envelope. Maybe I'll resubmit now that I know more.... Thank You, Jim ============== The best way to find if there are any further generations on file with the Mayflower Society is to send a synopsis (form avail at <http://www.mayflower.org>) with your lineage through you with $5 to the Historian General. Address is on the website. She will check their files and send you a photocopy of the most recent well-documented lineage that follows your line.

Hello everyone. Is there an electronic forum dedicated to descendents of Edward Doty? Thanks Lance Cope ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim Bullock" <jbbullock@earthlink.net> To: <MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Friday, January 25, 2002 3:05 AM Subject: [MFLR] Birth Record of Experience Howland > In Arnold's "Vital Record of Rhode Island, 1636-1850", vol. 6, p. 83, > Bristol Births is the following entry: > > "Howland, Experience, (L. B.), of Jabez and Bethia, May 19, 1687" > (That's Experience^3 of Jabez^2 (John^1) & Bethia (Thatcher) Howland.) > > What would the "L. B." mean? I haven't seen that entry for any other > births. > > Jim Bullock > Littleton, CO >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Cooke, Hopkins, Fisher Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/133.1 Message Board Post: Hiya Kathleen, I wanted to see how we were related so i adde the info you posted in your last message to my family tree maker. So you are my half 11th cousin. I am descended from Stephen through his second wife Elizabeth Fisher, and there daughter Damaris(2) who married Jacob Cooke (son of Francis Cooke of Mayflower). Contact me at megs_222000@yahoo.com . Thanks, Meagan

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Goss, Spracklen, White Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/149 Message Board Post: Like a zillion other people I have learned I am related to Mayflower passengers Wm White and his son, Resolved. If I had known this when I was in grade school I would have paid a whole lot more attention in class when we studied Pilgrims and Thanksgiving! So, as I new to genealogy, is there a special BB for Wm and Resolved White and their decendants? If so, I'd appreciate some direction as all the posts I see are rather dated. (not that should make too much difference as Wm and his son Resolved have been dead over 300 years!) My lineage goes, Wm, Resolved & Anna White, Judith Haywood, Philip Goss x3, Lydia, Solomon and so on. Would love to hear from other Wm, White descendants, especially ones with Goss connections. Signed, JHS

To all BRADFORD’s not descended from the Governor. For many years I have searched for the ancestors of William and Robert BRADFORD of Beverly. William left many descendants, I have many hundreds in my data base. After some pencil research, I had a researcher in England do some investigating for me. The only solid clue was a Ralph BRADFORD in Methley, Yorkshire who had sons Robert and William who's birth date are almost identical to those of the Beverly boys. However I have not been able to tie them together. Another clue is found in “Welcome Englishman” which is filled with errors but is worth following. One page is headed, “Immigrants by the surname BRADFORD, from Great Britain and Ireland”. One reads; Richard, found in Beverly, Massachusetts at early date, no known relationship to Governor Wm; known descendants to 10th generation”. I did find a Richard in the IGI which was close to matching but could not confirm. If anyone has comments or information or even curiosity, I will be happy to hear from you. Robert M. Bradford