I would like to personally thank all the people who save me. Thanks to Susan Roser and Harlow for helping make my application complete.. Dianna Saario Digging up Roots

A short time ago I asked for the symbols from the Plympton VR. I have been sent these privately and no longer need help with this. Thanks very much.

I was reminded by Susan Roser's reply concerning Sarah Cushman of a question about the NEHGS Plympton VR. As I understand, this particular collection of vital records made use of relatively recent copies made by town clerks of early books. There is a key to the meaning of some of the symbols used in this publication on page 5, but it appears to me that on my Search &ReSearch CD which includes images of the pages of this book page 5 is missing. Would someone please send in a list of the symbols and their meanings? Thanks, Harlow

Helen, I really appreciate your passing this along. I don't know how much I might be able to learn from these records but I would like to inquire about obtaining the records on an individual in my tree. One thing you did not mention was the cost associated with obtaining record copies from this source. Is there a cost? THANKS!! Rick -----Original Message----- From: Helkbenter@aol.com [mailto:Helkbenter@aol.com] Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 11:28 PM To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MFLR] Creative Documentation Susan Roser always has good advice. thanks susan. She encouraged me, when some things were "just not in existence". Neither my mother or father had birth certificates. I had always known my mother had none, but my father did! It just was no longer available for some unknown reason. I had an old report card of my mother's, signed by her mother (the line carrier) each quarter. I also had no proof of her father's birth, or death, though I have my grandmother's copy of the marriage registration (1899). But, my grandfather was a civilian employee of the US govt, and so had a personnel file on record. The office in St. Louis, headquarters, sent me a copy of his whole file, from his appplication in his own hand, with birth date and location, to the letter by his superior to the Dept. of Agriculture reporting his death, with the date. I also had in my possession a copy of one of my father's promotion application as a civilian employee. Actually I had 2 copies, his draft in his own hand - an original, and a copy of the typed one he had submitted. On this he stated he was born in Los Angeles, CA on May 29, 1905. My mother and father both had Death Certificates, with parents names. But, the personnel files confirmed much more. Here is the address: National Personnel Records Center civilian Personnel Records 111 Winnebago Street St. Louis, MO 63118-4199 Hope this helps someone. I am still stuck on proving one birth ca. 1780 in MA, for 3 more lines. I have not found that they registered any of their children. Helen Benter ______________________________

Dianna asked: > Sarah Cushman m. Daniel Soule in 1783. Sarah according to my record was > born Nov 29, 1759 but of course, I can't locate my documentation. Does some > kind person have where I can locate this info. > > Head held down.. Paper everywhere but not the one I need.. > ______________________________ Dianna, The source for Sarah's birth is Plympton VR:87. By the way - her marriage, 1 May 1783, is recorded in Plympton VR:303. And - her death, 8 June 1814, ae 54y6m9d, wf of Lt. Daniel Soule, dau of Josiah Cushman in Plympton VR:519. Susan E. Roser www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html

On Fri, 26 Jul 2002 22:26:31 -0700 "Dianna Saario" <dsaario@attbi.com> writes: > Sarah Cushman m. Daniel Soule in 1783. Sarah according to my record > was > born Nov 29, 1759 but of course, I can't locate my documentation. > Does some > kind person have where I can locate this info. Dianna - That date is given in "Mayflower Births & Deaths" but without a source - the asterisk next to the date indicates that Bowman wrote it in pencil. Dale H. Cook, Chief Engineer, WWWR Roanoke VA, WCQV Moneta VA, WKBA WZZI Vinton VA, WKPA WLNI WLVA WZZU Lynchburg VA

Susan Roser always has good advice. thanks susan. She encouraged me, when some things were "just not in existence". Neither my mother or father had birth certificates. I had always known my mother had none, but my father did! It just was no longer available for some unknown reason. I had an old report card of my mother's, signed by her mother (the line carrier) each quarter. I also had no proof of her father's birth, or death, though I have my grandmother's copy of the marriage registration (1899). But, my grandfather was a civilian employee of the US govt, and so had a personnel file on record. The office in St. Louis, headquarters, sent me a copy of his whole file, from his appplication in his own hand, with birth date and location, to the letter by his superior to the Dept. of Agriculture reporting his death, with the date. I also had in my possession a copy of one of my father's promotion application as a civilian employee. Actually I had 2 copies, his draft in his own hand - an original, and a copy of the typed one he had submitted. On this he stated he was born in Los Angeles, CA on May 29, 1905. My mother and father both had Death Certificates, with parents names. But, the personnel files confirmed much more. Here is the address: National Personnel Records Center civilian Personnel Records 111 Winnebago Street St. Louis, MO 63118-4199 Hope this helps someone. I am still stuck on proving one birth ca. 1780 in MA, for 3 more lines. I have not found that they registered any of their children. Helen Benter

***-----Original Message----- ***From: Ruy Cardoso [mailto:ruy_cardoso@yahoo.com] ***Sent: Friday, July 26, 2002 5:50 PM ***To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com ***Subject: [MFLR] Chipmans in Maine *** *** ***Hello, all. *** ***In my work on some of my wife's Maine ancestry, I seem ***to have gotten back to a couple named James Hodgkins ***and Deborah (__) Hodgkins, who were having children in ***Poland ME in the 1780s and 1790s (from a transcription ***of early Poland VRs in the NEHGR). Among the children ***of this couple was a son named Chipman ***Assuming that the name is indeed Chipman, I naturally ***wonder if mother Deborah's maiden name was Chipman, in ***turn making me wonder if she was a Howland descendant ***via Hope (Howland) Chipman. Hi Ruy, As is so often the case, I don't really know anything useful. I looked at almost a dozen of my CDs and checked GenealogyLibrary.com for a Deborah Chipman of the right time with no success, but I did note, as you may have yourself, that in the 1790 census for Bakerstown Plantation, out of which Poland and some other towns were created, there are three Chipman households--there's a Benjamin, a David and a William. You'd have to check this if you're interested, but I think the Daniel and William would be too young--born at about the time your Deborah would have been born. After struggling through the census page images at Ancestry.com I discovered that I needn't have because a census transcription has been done and posted at Rootsweb http://www.rootsweb.com/~mewaldo/Bakerstown1790.htm One can even use the "find" feature of his browser to find the names. I don't know that this goes anywhere. I looked at some of those notorious internet files, particularly at Rootsweb's WorldConnect, and I guess this Chipman family does go back to John and Hope--some people said so, but didn't provide sources. But there didn't seem to be any sign of a Deborah, or much space for her if the files are correct. Perhaps you can find a connection. I know that Chipman was used as a given name in a Swift family, and perhaps it is possible that this child was named not for someone with the Chipman surname, but for someone who had Chipman as a given name and the link to the Chipman family might be another generation or so back. There seemed to be many familiar names from Plymouth County in the 1790 Bakerstown Plantation census. Or I suppose it might even be that the child was named for one of these Chipmans, but it wasn't because of a blood connection, though that doesn't feel too good to me. Good luck--I hope someone else does better for you.

Sarah Cushman m. Daniel Soule in 1783. Sarah according to my record was born Nov 29, 1759 but of course, I can't locate my documentation. Does some kind person have where I can locate this info. Head held down.. Paper everywhere but not the one I need.. Thanks Dianna

Hello, all. In my work on some of my wife's Maine ancestry, I seem to have gotten back to a couple named James Hodgkins and Deborah (__) Hodgkins, who were having children in Poland ME in the 1780s and 1790s (from a transcription of early Poland VRs in the NEHGR). Among the children of this couple was a son named Chipman (although my wife is descended via a different son, one named Israel). At least I think it's Chipman; occasionally a census record has it as Whitman, although it mostly shows up as Chipman, as in the NEHGR transcription. Assuming that the name is indeed Chipman, I naturally wonder if mother Deborah's maiden name was Chipman, in turn making me wonder if she was a Howland descendant via Hope (Howland) Chipman. I have some indications that the Hodgkinses of Poland and that area may have come from Essex County MA, but I have not been able to find a marriage of a James Hodgkins and a Deborah in the Essex County VRs, nor have I been able to find the birth of a Deborah Chipman in those same VRs. Does anyone have access to a Chipman genealogy that might show a Deborah marrying a James Hodgkins sometime around 1780? Even knowing of a Deborah born around, say, 1760 would be helpful; I could use that information to pursue her father's probate record to see if it names a Deborah Hodgkins. Suggestions appreciated as always. Thanks. Ruy Cardoso __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Yahoo! Health - Feel better, live better http://health.yahoo.com

Mimi wrote: > I thought the three most recent generations HAD to be proved with primary > records, birth, marriage and death certificates. Is there some wiggle room > here, then? I know I won't find all of these for the earlier generations, > but I thought surely I could turn up records for the last 150 years. It > would be nice to know if I have an alternative, since not having this one > record will knock out all four of my potential lines. Does it matter if the > person is the spouse and not the line carrier? A bit more wiggle room > perhaps? Does anyone know? ____________ Mimi, I love your phrase "wiggle room" - and yes, there is some. The 3 most recent generations (actually, any date in the 1900's) must be proven with birth/marriage/death records WHERE possible. Meaning, that if the records are available, they are expected, however if they are not, then you can look elsewhere. Always, always order LONG FORM records for genealogical purposes. These records contain ALL the information that was given at the time of the event. (A fancy certificate often contains only the name, date and place, as extracted from the long form record.) A long form death record for example, often gives the date & place of birth and parents. As well, a long form marriage record often gives parents names. These records can be used to prove parentage when a birth record cannot be located. When a record cannot be found to prove parentage, then you can look elsewhere - census records, bible, obits, family histories, etc. Yes - more wiggle room for the spouse of the line carrier because it really doesn't matter if we prove his/her parentage, as long as we provide sources to support birth and death dates. I believe this subject is covered on our Mayflower FAQ and as well, at the web site listed below (where there is a link to the FAQ). There may be a little more info there. And remember - the society does have it's standard documentation requirements, however it is not so rigid as to insist on a record that simply does not exist. I've said it before - there's always a way! Susan E. Roser, Historian,Governor Canadian Society www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/4300/FO.2ADI/173 Message Board Post: I have a Josiah Rider/Ryder in my family tree and wonder if he could possible be the son of Josiah Rider descendent of Richard Warren through his daughter Mary Warren and husband Robert Bartlett. I know Josiah Rider and Huldah Gross had a son named Josiah, Jr. but don't have any dates or any information linking him to my Josiah.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Gregory or Scuife and McCray Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/172 Message Board Post: Grandmothers name is all I know. Elizabeth Scuife and/or Gregory-lived and married in Washington, D C to Roland McCray of North Carolina, she was born in Columbia South Carolina, I think. They had two daughters Cleo and Luci and a son Sterling. Need a link to my heritage for my grandchildren and sons.Granfather Roland spent time in Pittsburg, Pennsylvania. Grandmother was very fair in complexion and could have passed for white or may have been white.

Sorry, but from what I could see, it isn't all that wonderful. It's a Vital Records for sale site. I wouldn't recommend it. You can buy Vital records just about anywhere. Jerry ----- Original Message ----- From: <worldgenealogyproject@worldgenealogyproject.bigstep.com> To: <MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, July 23, 2002 12:55 AM Subject: [MFLR] NEW ENGLAND VITAL RECORDS > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Surnames: ALL OF NEW ENGLAND'S > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/170 > > Message Board Post: > > Hi, > > This is a wonderful site that has thousands of vital records from New England, USA and more are being added on a regular basis. > www.worldgenealogyproject.bigstep.com > Thank you for your time. > > > ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== > Check out the Mayflower FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)page at http://www.macatawa.org/~crich/mayfaq.htm . > >

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: ALL OF NEW ENGLAND'S Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/170 Message Board Post: Hi, This is a wonderful site that has thousands of vital records from New England, USA and more are being added on a regular basis. www.worldgenealogyproject.bigstep.com Thank you for your time.

I thought the three most recent generations HAD to be proved with primary records, birth, marriage and death certificates. Is there some wiggle room here, then? I know I won't find all of these for the earlier generations, but I thought surely I could turn up records for the last 150 years. It would be nice to know if I have an alternative, since not having this one record will knock out all four of my potential lines. Does it matter if the person is the spouse and not the line carrier? A bit more wiggle room perhaps? Does anyone know? Mimi > [Original Message] > From: J. A. Childers <jachild1@gte.net> > To: <mimi.barker@mindspring.com> > Date: 7/22/02 11:41:27 AM > Subject: Re: [MFLR] Warren and Brewster > > Miriam, > Like you, I too have been lurking on the message board, but for over a > year. Posted only once to see if anyone else had my family names. It is a > very active mailing list and I have learned so much by just reading the > messages of others. My papers were recently approved. > > As to your question about substitute records for birth, you could use: > a Bible record, > first census after her birth, be sure to copy the location, date, and > page numbers > church baptismal record > a newspaper announcement for birth if listing parents names and child, > copy the name and date of paper > birth announcement card > diary, journal, or letter about the birth with all names listed, date > and place > photo of baby or child listing the parents, date, and location > > If none of the above are available then use: > her obituary, which usually names parents > sometimes death records also name parents > sometimes tombstones list parents or tombstone inscription books > family histories and county histories (which aren't as good a source > but better than nothing) > > For the colonial record of birth, the town records especially in Mass, > are very good. but they wouldn't apply to your grandmother. > > My final tip for joining the National Society of Mayflower Descendants > is to send in as much proof as possible. The historians are very good at > sorting it all out. > > Hope this helps, good luck, > Jean Ann --- Miriam Barker --- mimi.barker@mindspring.com --- EarthLink: The #1 provider of the Real Internet.

Ray: My hubby's line from John Wing of Barnstable County,Mass. 1. John Wing and Deborah Bachilier(dau of Rev.Stephen] 2. John Wing and Elizabeth (Dillingham of Yarmouth) 3. Annanias and Hannah (Tilton, dau of Samuel? of Chilmark) 4. Elnathan and Hannah {Allen- dau of Samuel) 5. Samuel and Hannah (Sears, dau of Paul of Chatham) ........Samuel moved his family to what is now Winthrop and Readfield,Maine,about 1774 6. Anna Wing and Hull Abbott [son of Hull and Bethia Row of Gloucester,Ma] in Maine 7. Benjamin Abbott and Sarah M.Young ( desc. of John Young of Plymouth Colony) in Maine Cynthia ----- Original Message ----- From: Raymond Wing To: Cynthia Sent: Monday, July 22, 2002 6:39 AM Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower / Plymouth Colony ancestors I noticed your e-mail in the Mayflower List. I am working with the Wing Family of America, Inc. [WFA] on developing a new Wing Genealogy. You stated your husband has a line of descent from John Wing of Harwich [whose wife Elizabeth MAY have been a daughter of Edward Dillingham]. I would be interested in learning this line of descent from John Wing and may be able to give you some additional information.

Cynthia: Per your posting to the list: >Richard Church (have 2 lines here with Elizabeth Warren] Hingham >*Keith [Rev. James]..Easton >Richard Warren..Plymouth >Samuel Thaxter ..Hingham [mar.Abigail Church,1666] We share both Rev. James Keith and Samuel Thaxter as common ancestors. Always good to meet a fellow cousin (no matter how distant). Regards, Rick Turner "We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness."---The Declaration of Independence "I love the word 'friends'. It means so much, for we are, and should be, friends for the glory of God and the salvation of the world."---Alice C. Winslow (1856-1927), 1913

Hi-- I sent out a list of my ancestors to Mass Bay Colony and Plymouth Colony mailing list.......... when I put down Rev.James Keith, I erred by stating he was of Easton which he was not, it should have said Bridgewater [ "Old Bridgewater" what is now West Bridgewater]. His gggrandaughter Mary was born in Easton. Cynthia administrator for: Ma-Bay-Colony-L@rootsweb.com Lookups use: RussianBlue@samnet.net http://archiver.rootsweb.com ------------------------------------------------------------------------ -------- Upgrade Outlook - Add COLOR to your Emails

On Mon, 22 Jul 2002 11:39:23 -0400 (EDT) KARENE1@webtv.net (~Karen E~) writes: > I subscribe to a list from shagmail.com called Time Capsules. This > was included in today's mailing: > > On this date in 1620, Dutch pilgrims left for America. Their ship -- > called the "Speedhaven" -- set sail from Delfshaven, Holland. > > Forgive me if I'm wrong, but I thought it was the Speedwell? Karen - You are correct. I expect that line wasn't written by a Mayflower descendant. <grin> Dale H. Cook, Chief Engineer, WWWR Roanoke VA, WCQV Moneta VA, WKBA WZZI Vinton VA, WKPA WLNI WLVA WZZU Lynchburg VA