Hi Pilgrims: We seem to have an expert on the Alden line here in SC who has recently proff read the Alden five generation series. Ed Sherman Past Governor, Soc. of Mayflower Descendants in SC <A HREF="http://www.mayflower.org/">General Mayflower Society</A> <A HREF="http://www.mayflower.org/">SC Mayflower</A>

Hi Ruy Let me answer paragraph by paragraph. First of all, thank you for all your observances. This is precisely why I wrote to this list. I really needed another point of view. <<The will of David Tompkins is troubling because it gives Rhoda two different last names. Though this could have been a mental mistake or a transcription mistake, on the surface it looks as though there might be two different Rhodas here, and the fact that David mentions yet a third (Rhoda Waldron) perhaps indicates that Rhoda was a common name in this time, place, and family. And yet there is that 1855 census which does in fact seem to indicate that the two Rhodas (Lavare and Clarke) are the same person... Does that census name the relationships, by the way, or are you presuming them? If it names the relationships, that helps, but otherwise the census record strikes me as not quite strong enough on its own.>> The will of David Tompkins is in error on another account. He lists his sister as Rhoda Waldron when her name was actually Rhoda Knight. She had married John Knight, son of Waldron Knight. My current belief, on the assumption that my Rhoda is David's niece, is that my Rhoda was named for David and Mary's sister Rhoda. As for the 1855 census, I didn't see what notation was made for Rhoda Clark. However, Mary Manchester was listed as mother and Arnold Lavare and William Lavare were listed as mariners. I am descended from William and I knew he was a mariner. Neither Arnold (age 35) nor William (age 32) were married at this point. <<Perhaps you could give some more of the info from the two marriage records of Rhoda as well as what the census record actually says. Does her second one, for example, indicate that she was the widow of Epaphroditus Lavare? Or does it give her name as Rhoda Lavare, daughter of Gilbert Tompkins and Mary? Or does her gravestone or death record somehow indicate that the same Rhoda married the two men?>> I don't have in front of me the paper copies from MA Vitals to 1850, Westport, but it lists a marriage of Rhoda Manchester to Epaphroditus Lavare on Nov. 7, 1816. Then it lists Mrs. Rhoda Levere (that name has been spelled any number of ways) marrying James Clark of Little Compton on Oct. 10, 1829. Under the deaths, it lists Epaphroditus Lavare as "lost at sea" in September, 1825, and "in lot with" William Vinal. Finally, I have personally been to the Rural Cemetery in New Bedford and have seen Rhoda's stone and the stone erected in the memory of Epaphroditus. Rhoda's stone says, "Rhoda, widow of Epaphroditus Lavare and widow of James Clarke." Rhoda's stone has "Mother" on the top and Epaphroditus has "Father." Rhoda is in the plot of William Vinal, who was her son-in-law. Apparently, Rhoda was pregnant with Lavinia Lavare when Epaphroditus was lost because Lavinia Lavare was born in the early months of 1826. I never knew of her existence until I went to the cemetery and saw the cemetery records. I also never knew about another daughter born to Rhoda and James Clarke until very recently. Neither Lavinia Lavare nor Mary Anna Clarke are listed in the Westport vitals. And neither of them are in the 1855 census. And yes, I have been to Westport to check personally. I understand that Mary Anna is listed in the Westport 1850 census as age 13 living with her mother Rhoda Clark. I didn't look at that census. It came from the descendant of Mary Anna. <<Further, what evidence do you have that the David Tompkins who mentions all the Rhodas is the son of the Micah you're after? Finally, I seem to recall reading somewhere about potential problems in Little Compton Families, but I can't remember where. Perhaps I'm imagining things, or perhaps someone else on the list will be able to provide more info.>> I'm sure, as with all published genealogies, there are mistakes in Little Compton families. Right now, I have that book and I saw the Tompkins genealogy book in Little Compton yesterday, as my proofs that David is a son of Micah Tompkins. <<As a suggestion, do you know if there are Little Compton church records somewhere out there that might provide Mary's maiden name?>> Right now, no, I don't. <<Good luck with this. Most of the info you provide is consistent with your theory, but my own view is that you need a little more info to support it. In particular, you need to prove fairly strongly that the reference to the two Rhodas in the David Tompkins will is an error and that the two Rhodas really are identical. If I recall where I saw that reference to a problem with Little Compton Families, I'll post again. Ruy Cardoso>> Thanks for the good luck and thanks again for the insights. Karen Flanders Eddy

Hi, Karen. The will of David Tompkins is troubling because it gives Rhoda two different last names. Though this could have been a mental mistake or a transcription mistake, on the surface it looks as though there might be two different Rhodas here, and the fact that David mentions yet a third (Rhoda Waldron) perhaps indicates that Rhoda was a common name in this time, place, and family. And yet there is that 1855 census which does in fact seem to indicate that the two Rhodas (Lavare and Clarke) are the same person... Does that census name the relationships, by the way, or are you presuming them? If it names the relationships, that helps, but otherwise the census record strikes me as not quite strong enough on its own. Perhaps you could give some more of the info from the two marriage records of Rhoda as well as what the census record actually says. Does her second one, for example, indicate that she was the widow of Epaphroditus Lavare? Or does it give her name as Rhoda Lavare, daughter of Gilbert Tompkins and Mary? Or does her gravestone or death record somehow indicate that the same Rhoda married the two men? Further, what evidence do you have that the David Tompkins who mentions all the Rhodas is the son of the Micah you're after? Finally, I seem to recall reading somewhere about potential problems in Little Compton Families, but I can't remember where. Perhaps I'm imagining things, or perhaps someone else on the list will be able to provide more info. As a suggestion, do you know if there are Little Compton church records somewhere out there that might provide Mary's maiden name? Good luck with this. Most of the info you provide is consistent with your theory, but my own view is that you need a little more info to support it. In particular, you need to prove fairly strongly that the reference to the two Rhodas in the David Tompkins will is an error and that the two Rhodas really are identical. If I recall where I saw that reference to a problem with Little Compton Families, I'll post again. Ruy Cardoso > Date: Tue, 19 Nov 2002 21:24:53 -0500 (EST) > From: KARENE1@webtv.net (~Karen E~) > To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: [MFLR] Mary Tompkins, Alden line > > Hi Everyone > > I need some advice since I'm practically brain dead > right now from > looking at censuses and other microfilms all day, > hahaha. > > Background: Rhoda Manchester, widow of Epaphroditus > Lavare and James > Clarke, was born in Westport, MA, Dec. 1800, to > Gilbert Manchester and > Mary (unknown) according to her gravestone and hard > copy death > certificate. There is no birth cerfiticate to be > found but both of > Rhoda's marriages are listed in the MA Vitals to > 1850, Westport. > Gilbert and Mary were listed as being from Little > Compton, RI. > > I am trying to prove that the Mary in question is > actually Mary > Tompkins, daughter of Micah, and granddaughter of > Sarah Pabodie Coe. I > cannot find a will for either Gilbert Manchester or > Mary Tompkins > Manchester. > > Facts: Mary Tompkins is listed in Little Compton > Families as a sister > of David Tompkins in David's will. "To sister Mary > Manchester, widow, > 20 dollars. To Arnold Levere, son of Rhoda Levere, > widow, my shoe > bench, shoe making tools, lasts and all > appurtanences. To sister Rhoda > Waldron a cupboard in her possession, then to Rhoda > Clark, daughter of > Gilbert Manchester, deceased." > > Rhoda Clark and Rhoda Lavare are the same person. > From reading this > will, one could easily presume that Rhoda was a > niece of David Tompkins. > > Little Compton Families states, and I have seen the > references in > person, that Mary Tompkins Manchester died in Oct. > 1855. In fact, the > full reference states the date as Oct. 29, 1855, age > 92 yrs, 8 mos., and > Mary is listed as the wife of Capt. Gilbert > Manchester. The 1855 > Westport, MA, census has Mary Manchester, age 92, > living with her > daughter Rhoda Clark, and grandsons Arnold and > William Lavare (228-277). > > With no will from either Mary Tompkins Manchester or > Gilbert Manchester, > and only Gilbert's full name on Rhoda's death > certificate, would I have > enough proof from the above to show that Rhoda > Manchester Lavare Clarke > is the daughter of Gilbert Manchester and Mary > Tompkins and therefore a > Mayflower descendant through John Alden and > Priscilla Mullins? > > Karen Flanders Eddy > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Web Hosting - Let the expert host your site http://webhosting.yahoo.com

There seems to be cosiderable controversy over whether Dorcas Samson, daughter of Mayflower passenger Henry Samson, was the wife of Thomas Bonney, Sr. or Jr. The somewhat outdated Bonney genealogy that I consulted states that Thomas Bonney, Sr. married Mary Hunt and that Thomas Jr. married Dorcas Samson, but there seems to be some controversy among Bonney descendants about this scenario, with some claiming that there was only one Thomas, married to both women, some claiming that there were two unrelated Thomas Bonneys, some claiming that there was one and that one wife (or the other) was the mother of all of his children, etc., etc., etc. I emailed my state's chapter of the Mayflower Society to see if they accept any lines through Dorcas and Thomas, or had any information to sort out the multiple theories, but never received a response. There don't seem to be too many reliable secondary sources on this family, and the internet is full of misinformation, so I thought this list would be a good place to start. I would appreciate any good discussion on this family, source referals, opinions, etc. FYI, my line comes through James Bonney who married Desire Billington and Abigail Bishop ~ incidently I have a proven Henry Samson line a few generations down from here! Many thanks, Anna

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/184 Message Board Post: Found this book on epier auction, not a bad price either. It is not my book, but you may can email the seller from the page if you have questions. The url is: http://www.epier.com/BiddingForm.asp?601946 Melissa

Hi Everyone I need some advice since I'm practically brain dead right now from looking at censuses and other microfilms all day, hahaha. Background: Rhoda Manchester, widow of Epaphroditus Lavare and James Clarke, was born in Westport, MA, Dec. 1800, to Gilbert Manchester and Mary (unknown) according to her gravestone and hard copy death certificate. There is no birth cerfiticate to be found but both of Rhoda's marriages are listed in the MA Vitals to 1850, Westport. Gilbert and Mary were listed as being from Little Compton, RI. I am trying to prove that the Mary in question is actually Mary Tompkins, daughter of Micah, and granddaughter of Sarah Pabodie Coe. I cannot find a will for either Gilbert Manchester or Mary Tompkins Manchester. Facts: Mary Tompkins is listed in Little Compton Families as a sister of David Tompkins in David's will. "To sister Mary Manchester, widow, 20 dollars. To Arnold Levere, son of Rhoda Levere, widow, my shoe bench, shoe making tools, lasts and all appurtanences. To sister Rhoda Waldron a cupboard in her possession, then to Rhoda Clark, daughter of Gilbert Manchester, deceased." Rhoda Clark and Rhoda Lavare are the same person. From reading this will, one could easily presume that Rhoda was a niece of David Tompkins. Little Compton Families states, and I have seen the references in person, that Mary Tompkins Manchester died in Oct. 1855. In fact, the full reference states the date as Oct. 29, 1855, age 92 yrs, 8 mos., and Mary is listed as the wife of Capt. Gilbert Manchester. The 1855 Westport, MA, census has Mary Manchester, age 92, living with her daughter Rhoda Clark, and grandsons Arnold and William Lavare (228-277). With no will from either Mary Tompkins Manchester or Gilbert Manchester, and only Gilbert's full name on Rhoda's death certificate, would I have enough proof from the above to show that Rhoda Manchester Lavare Clarke is the daughter of Gilbert Manchester and Mary Tompkins and therefore a Mayflower descendant through John Alden and Priscilla Mullins? Karen Flanders Eddy

***-----Original Message----- ***From: Dianna Saario [mailto:dsaario@attbi.com] ***Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 11:41 PM ***To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com ***Subject: [MFLR] Thankful Boals/Bolles m Moses Wright *** *** ***I am looking for the parentage of Thankful Boals/Bolles who ***married Moses4 Wright(Adam3 Wright, Hester2, Francis Cooke1) *** ***All I have is a marriage between Moses and Thankful on Jan 12, ***1732/33 in Plympton, Plymouth Co., MA. *** ***Their daughter Hannah Wright m. Solomon Young and my line ***follows thru Solomon Young m. Desire Barrows (Rogers, Brewster, ***Hopkins lines) *** *** ***Dianna Saario ***Digging up Roots I have bad news for you Dianna--we're cousins. I too would like to know where Thankful came from, but as I expect you know there's nothing in the Mayflower publications which include Moses and Thankful that suggests there's any record of her and I have never seen anything that suggests who she was. As you probably know, the Plympton VR (434) says in the marriage intentions she was "of Bridgewater." (Which, again as you probably know, is what the Jan. 12, 1732/3 date refers to, not the actual marriage.)

I know it's off topic, but welcome. I love your country and its people. I have just returned from my fourth straight trip to Calgary. Again, welcome to the list. Terry C NJ

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Alden, Mullins, Howland, Tilley Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/183 Message Board Post: Gillian--you can join any state society or the Canadian society. (See mayflower.org for a list). Here's the URL for the Canadian: http://users.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html -- I'm an American but I joined the Canadian Society because all my Mayflower connections migrated to Canada (it makes sense to me). The historian for the Canadian society is Susan Roser, who's a member of this (the Mayflower rootsweb) list. -- polly --

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/182.1 Message Board Post: You wrote: "My children are related to Stephen Hopkins throught his son Giles, how do I join the Society (for them) if I live in Canada? I have filled in the lineage application and now need an address to send it to." You're about to discover one more great reason to be a Canadian. Susan Roser's website will give you the information you need. http://www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Hopkins, Whelden, Merrick, Doane, Lincoln, Freeman, Evans..... Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/182 Message Board Post: My children are related to Stephen Hopkins throught his son Giles, how do I join the Society (for them) if I live in Canada? I have filled in the lineage application and now need an address to send it to. Thank-you, Gillian

I am looking for the parentage of Thankful Boals/Bolles who married Moses4 Wright(Adam3 Wright, Hester2, Francis Cooke1) All I have is a marriage between Moses and Thankful on Jan 12, 1732/33 in Plympton, Plymouth Co., MA. Their daughter Hannah Wright m. Solomon Young and my line follows thru Solomon Young m. Desire Barrows (Rogers, Brewster, Hopkins lines) Dianna Saario Digging up Roots --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.419 / Virus Database: 235 - Release Date: 11/13/02

I'm also a descendant of Richard & Elizabeth (Ingraham) Bullock of Rehoboth. The membership requirements are pretty clear--there has to be a direct line of descent, i. e. a "blood line", to the Mayflower passenger. We have no direct line from Richard's 2nd wife Elizabeth Billington or her ancestors. (I guess you could call her a "step-grandmother".) Yes, the descendants of Richard & Elizabeth (Billington) Bullock are "blood relatives", but Elizabeth isn't. The same requirement would apply to step-children of a Mayflower descendant--they don't qualify through the step-parent's line. Jim Bullock Littleton, CO -----Original Message----- From: Jeri Ralston [mailto:farkatie@webtv.net] Sent: Monday, November 18, 2002 9:45 AM To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MFLR] MEMBERSHIP QUESTION: Richard BULLOCK my ggggrandfather married into a MAYFLOWER family thur. his second wife. I am a direct descendant of he & his first wife, but half-sibings of the second family. How does membership work?? Thanks,Jeri ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== Check out the Mayflower FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)page at http://www.macatawa.org/~crich/mayfaq.htm .

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/6.8.9.12.13.14.34.53.56.58.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: I just received this info in the mail on Saturday and was "fishing" to see whether there is accuracy to it. The Joseph White in the report I was given stated that he married Mary Gater Feb. 9, 1709 in St. Anne P.E. Church, Annapolis, MD. Children were Joseph, Edward, Anne, Francis, Benjamin, etc. I realize from reading other Mayflower sites that the first five generations are very well documented and that if you say this is not so, it probably isn't. I will hie myself off to the nearest library as soon as I have a free day and see the Mayflower Book and other records for myself. Thanks. Pat Ferguson

QUESTION: Richard BULLOCK my ggggrandfather married into a MAYFLOWER family thur. his second wife. I am a direct descendant of he & his first wife, but half-sibings of the second family. How does membership work?? Thanks,Jeri

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: WHITE Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/6.8.9.12.13.14.34.53.56.58.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: MF 13, p37 reports that Joseph WHITE, son of Daniel and Hannah (Hunt) WHITE, had only daughters Deborah, Ruth and Elizabeth. No sons, William or otherwise. Methinks there's a slip in your data somewhere, or else I've misunderstood the lineage you are reporting.

Did you receive any responses? I would very much to know if there will be any documentaries this month. Thanks Deb ----- Original Message ----- From: <DGreen1647@aol.com> To: <MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:53 AM Subject: [MFLR] Mayflower Documentary > Does anyone know if there are any documenaries about the Mayflower or > Pilgrims to be televised this month? > > TTYS, Dawn Green >

On the History Channel: History Special Presentation Home for the Holidays: The History of Thanksgiving Tuesday , November 26 8:00 PM-9:00 PM From the Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock, Lincoln's 1863 declaration naming it a national holiday, to turkey, Macy's parade, and football, we'll share the abundant feast of Thanksgiving history--including all the trimmings! TV G History Special Presentation Home for the Holidays: The History of Thanksgiving Wednesday, November 27 12:00 AM-1:00 AM From the Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock, Lincoln's 1863 declaration naming it a national holiday, to turkey, Macy's parade, and football, we'll share the abundant feast of Thanksgiving history--including all the trimmings! TV G History Special Presentation Home for the Holidays: The History of Thanksgiving Wednesday, November 27 11:00 AM-12:00 PM From the Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock, Lincoln's 1863 declaration naming it a national holiday, to turkey, Macy's parade, and football, we'll share the abundant feast of Thanksgiving history--including all the trimmings! TV G History Special Presentation Home for the Holidays: The History of Thanksgiving Wednesday, November 27 5:00 PM-6:00 PM From the Pilgrims at Plymouth Rock, Lincoln's 1863 declaration naming it a national holiday, to turkey, Macy's parade, and football, we'll share the abundant feast of Thanksgiving history--including all the trimmings! TV G I'll check the Discover Channel, too. Blessings, Father John >From: "Mike Lang" <mlang1@twcny.rr.com> >To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Documentary >Date: Sun, 17 Nov 2002 15:27:04 -0800 > >Did you receive any responses? I would very much to know if there will be >any documentaries this month. > >Thanks > >Deb >----- Original Message ----- >From: <DGreen1647@aol.com> >To: <MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com> >Sent: Tuesday, November 05, 2002 1:53 AM >Subject: [MFLR] Mayflower Documentary > > > > Does anyone know if there are any documenaries about the Mayflower or > > Pilgrims to be televised this month? > > > > TTYS, Dawn Green > > > > >==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== >Check out the Mayflower FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)page at >http://www.macatawa.org/~crich/mayfaq.htm . _________________________________________________________________ Add photos to your messages with MSN 8. Get 2 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=features/featuredemail

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/6.8.9.12.13.14.34.53.56.58.1.1.1 Message Board Post: I just received info today that I am descended from William White from Joseph White, son of Daniel White, son of Peregrine White and Sarah Bassett... Moving forward - Joseph White m. Mary Gater, Feb. 9, 1709, son Joseph White b. Aug. 13, 1711. This Joseph White m. Mary Griffith on March 4, 1738, and had among others, son Griffith White, etc. down through my grandmother, Lillian Estelle McLearen. Is this lineage familiar to you? I can give you the intervening generations so we can tell where our branches "fork."

This is in response to Susan Roser's comments. I will do my best to address the issues she has brought up. I'm writing my responses in CAPS so that it doesn't get confusing. > A few observations on this interesting new book - I have not read it but > since statements were made on this list, I would like to comment (below with > **). > > >All of Richard's siblings died in the crossing; he alone >survived to > become one of the original Plymouth settlers. > > **I notice this statement is corrected in the book exerpt online but thought > it should be corrected here as well - Richard's brother Jasper and sisters > Ellen and Mary died during the sickness the first winter, not during the > voyage. THIS WAS MY MISTAKE - I FOR SOME REASON REMEMBERED THAT THE SIBLINGS DIED DURING THE CROSSING, BUT THE FACTS ARE PRESENTED CORRECTLY BOTH IN THE BOOK AND IN THE AUTHOR'S ONLINE INTRODUCTION...SORRY. > > > Richard was not counted among the Separatists, as the >Pilgrims were then > called, but among the so-called >Strangers, a secular crowd that had signed > up for >passage at the last minute. That her entered the scene >under a > cloud of scandal made him a stranger even >among the Strangers. That his > assigned guardian was >William Brewster, nominal head of the Separatists, > >rendered his dislocation complete. > > **I don't believe that Bradford, when he wrote his "Increasings & > Decreasings", specified which passengers were "Saints" and which were > "Strangers". The four children were put with the families of Brewster, > Carver and Winslow - all three are known to have been a part of the Leyden > congregation, therefore considered "Saints". It should also be noted that > it is not known with certainty if the Pilgrims knew the history of the More > children - Bradford certainly never hinted at it in his writings. (Carver > and Cushman made the arrangements with Samuel More - even if they did know > the story, would it have been made common knowledge?) Therefore, did these > More children board the Mayflower in a "cloud of scandal" as stated, or is > this a presumption? I find it interesting that the children were placed > with good families and that each were regarded as shareholders. Their legal > father, Samuel More paid 80 pounds (a double share per child) with an > additional 20 pounds paid, therefore the childrens' passage was paid. At > the end of 7 years, each child would receive 50 acres of land. In fact, > Richard was included with the "Ancient Freemen" when he received a land > grant in 1660 at Rochester and later at Swansea. THE QUESTION OF WHO KNEW WHAT AND HOW MUCH IS ADDRESSED IN THE BOOK. I WON'T GET INTO THE DETAILS HERE (YOU CAN READ ABOUT IT IN THE BOOK...)- BUT I WILL SAY THAT BREWSTER DEFINITELY DID KNOW HIS CHARGE'S HISTORY. THE PARTICULARS OF HOW THE PASSAGE WAS ARRANGED AND HOW IT CAME TO BE ARRANGED THE WAY IT WAS ARE ALSO IN THE BOOK - AS WELL AS ON THE BOOK'S WEB SITE SINCE THIS IS PART OF THE EARLY CHAPTERS THAT ARE EXCERPTED AT: http://www.idealog.com/books/mayflowerbastard.html > >Richard's second born, Samuel, went as far as highway >robbery. > > **According to MF 15:155, Samuel2 More (bpt. 1642) was living in 1650 but > nothing further is known about him after this date and he is not carried > further. This is the case with two other sons as well, Thomas & Joshua. > Has new research uncovered these children? Wonderful if this is the case, > however I haven't heard of any. THE STORY OF THE ROBBERY COMMITTED BY SAMUEL MORE (SON OF RICHARD), FOR WHICH HE WAS PROSECUTED IN 1677, IS RELATED IN THE BOOK AND CITED AS WELL. > The appointment of Andros as governor of New >England brought multiple > hardships upon the Mores.... >And when it went looking for scapegoats, it > found >Richard guilty of adultery. As punishment, this old >survivor of the > Ancient Beginning had to wear the >infamous "A" on his chest. Knowing all > too well of the >captain's wandering eye, the Salem church had little > >choice but to follow suit and excommunicate him. The >following year, > Boston rose up against the Andros >government, and not coincidentally, > Richard was able to >regain his place in the Salem church > > **According to the records of the First Church in Salem, More had for some > time been under suspicion for "lasciviousness" but all the Elders could do > was talk to him because they had no direct proof of wrong doing. In 1688 > this changed and he was convicted by three witnesses "of gross unchastity > with another mans wife". In 1691 he repented and was forgiven by the > church. I hadn't before heard of the Andros involvement (or the infamous > letter "A"), however since the Andros government fell in 1689, I fail to see > how it was a coincidence that More was reinstated in the church - as this > occurred two years later in 1691. THE CONNECTION BETWEEN RICHARD'S EXCOMMUNICATION AND THE ANDROS GOVERNMENT IS EXPLORED IN CHAPTER 13 OF THE BOOK. JUST TO QUOTE BRIEFLY FROM THAT CHAPTER: "SHORTLY BEFORE JULY 1, 1688, CAPTAIN RICHARD MORE WAS SUMMONED TO APPEAR BEFORE SEVERAL JUSTICES OF THE PEACE...FOR COMMITTING THE ACT OF ADULTERY...AFTER THE THREE WITNESSES DELIVERED THE TESTIMONY AND THE JUDGES HANDED DOWN THEIR SENTENCE, RICHARD WAS TAKEN OUTSIDE THE COURTHOUSE, TO A SPOT BESIDE THE ADJACENT WATCH HOUSE, AND TIED TO THE WHIPPING POST THERE. AFTER RECEIVING HIS LASHES, HE WAS SENT ON HIS WAY, WITH THE INSTRUCTIONS TO AFFIX THE LETTER A - THE INFAMOUS SCARLET LETTER - IN A CONSPICUOUS POSITION ON HIS UPPER GARMENTS, THAT HE MIGHT BROADCAST HIS CRIME WHENEVER HE SHOWED HIMSELF.... WITH THE OUSTING OF ANDROS, A COMMITTEE OF SAFETY WAS FORMED...AND IN EARLY MAY 1690 THE CONVENTION VOTED TO RESTORE THE FORMER COLONIAL GOVERNMENT TO MASSACHUSETTS...IT WAS PRECISELY AT THIS TIME THAT RICHARD BEGAN APPROACHING THE CHURCH ELDERS ABOUT HIS CHANCES OF BEING READMITTED TO THE CONGREGATION." THE CONNECTION BETWEEN THE ANDROS GOVERNMENT AND RICHARD'S EXCOMMUNICATION GOES DEEPER THAN THIS SHORT QUOTE. IN THE BOOK THE POLITICAL AGENDAS AND POLITICAL AFFILIATIONS OF THE JUDGES AND ELDERS DURING ANDROS' TERM, AND THEIR HISTORIES WITH RICHARD MORE ARE FURTHER EXPLAINED. > One last comment - Richard More was not a bastard and I would hazard a guess > that his descendants might take exception to describing him as such. His > legal father might not have recognized him as his son, but Richard was born > to a legally married couple and I have never seen the More children referred > to as "bastards" in the many legal documents cited in the article below. In > fact, the article below states, "Any child conceived while the mother's > husband was in England was considered in law to be legitimate (i.e., the > husband's child)". > > An excellent 3 part article was written about the legal actions between > Samuel & Katherine More and the fate of the children by Donald F. Harris of > Shrewsbury, Shropshire, England in the 1993 and 1994 issues of The Mayflower > Descendant. > FUNNY YOU SHOULD MENTION THAT - CHAPTER 1 OF 'MAYFLOWER BASTARD' TELLS OF DAVID LINDSAY'S TOUR OF SHROPSHIRE, ON WHICH DON HARRIS ACTS AS HIS GUIDE. THEY DISCUSS THE EVENTS BETWEEN SAMUEL & KATHARINE TOGETHER, AND LINDSAY DOES ADDRESS THE 'BASTARD' ISSUE - HE IS OF COURSE AWARE THAT THE MORE CHILDREN WERE NOT BASTARDS ACCORDING TO ENGLISH LAW. YOU SHOULD FIND THIS CHAPTER INTERESTING - IT IS ALSO POSTED ON THE WEB SITE IF YOU'D LIKE TO READ IT: http://www.idealog.com/books/mayflowerbastard.html HOPE THIS WAS HELPFUL, -SIGALIT.