***-----Original Message----- ***From: Scottsfamilytree@aol.com [mailto:Scottsfamilytree@aol.com] ***Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 1:12 AM ***To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com ***Subject: [MFLR] President Bush *** *** ***Hi, Who checks Presidents Bush's validity into the Mayflower, as ***well as his ***famous royal ancestors. ***I am related to him on the Francis Cooke side. Hi Scott, There is an article in volume 41 of the Mayflower Descendant by Gary Boyd Roberts, author of several books including_Ancestors of American Presidents_(NEHGS, 1995), titled "The Mayflower Descents of President George Herbert Walker Bush, First Lady Barbara Pierce Bush, and Vice President James Danforth Quayle." In this article Roberts includes details on the Mayflower lines of these people and says that he considers the Cooke line for President Bush to be likely, but unproven. The Tilley/Howland line is considered proven. This information was current in 1991, and what applies to the elected President Bush presumably applies also to the appointed President Bush, who would also have his mother's line from Henry Sampson. Roberts mentions that while he is not aware of any near relations of President Bush having joined the Mayflower Society, information of the lines in the article was gathered by the foremost experts including Caroline Lewis Kardell and Bette Bradway.

My dearest cousin, The reply was to the list, to correct the inaccuracy. Are you the list owner? Did you counsel Harlow about his "sly" political statement? If you'll re-read your comment to me. You'll see that it is patronizing and, dare I say it, a bit threatening. You're not a happy person, are you? I'm sorry for you, dear Karen. Fondly, Denise --- Karen Sullivan <ksullivan@hvc.rr.com> wrote: > Let's keep our replies to Harlow off the list, okay? > > Karen Sullivan > Visit Alden Kindred of America at http://www.alden.org/ > --------------------------------- > Once, on this earth, once, on this familiar spot of ground, walked > other men and women, as actual as we are today, thinking their own > thoughts, swayed by their own passions, but now all gone, one > generation vanishing after another, gone as utterly as we ourselves > shall shortly be gone like ghosts at cockcrow.-- G.M.Trevelyan > > -----Original Message----- > From: Denise [mailto:hence@rocketmail.com] > Sent: Saturday, December 21, 2002 8:10 AM > To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com > Subject: RE: [MFLR] President Bush > > > > --- Harlow Chandler <chandler@firstva.com> wrote: > > "and what applies to the elected President Bush presumably applies > also > to the appointed President Bush" > > > An incorrect statement. Both Bushes were, in every sense of the word, > "elected." Most informed folks are aware of that. > > I thought we were to stick to Mayflower-related information? Why the > cheap shot? > > Only one of the Thirty Million, > Denise > > P.S. I still love you Harlow. > > __________________________________________________ > Do you Yahoo!? > Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. > http://mailplus.yahoo.com > > > ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== > Check out the web page of the General Society of Mayflower > Descendants at > http://www.mayflower.org/ > > __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

--- Harlow Chandler <chandler@firstva.com> wrote: "and what applies to the elected President Bush presumably applies also to the appointed President Bush" An incorrect statement. Both Bushes were, in every sense of the word, "elected." Most informed folks are aware of that. I thought we were to stick to Mayflower-related information? Why the cheap shot? Only one of the Thirty Million, Denise P.S. I still love you Harlow. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now. http://mailplus.yahoo.com

Scott--I do not know about the Francis Cooke line for Pres. Bush, but the Howland Society has researched and confirmed his descent from John Howland. Gail Adams Editor of the Howland Quarterly

Hi, Who checks Presidents Bush's validity into the Mayflower, as well as his famous royal ancestors. I am related to him on the Francis Cooke side. Is there any new information about Francis Cooke and his wife Hester Mahieu? Or there ancestors? Have a Merry Xmas. Scott

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Snow, Brown Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/189 Message Board Post: Rebecca married William Snow. I am seeking more information about his descendants through his son William>> Eleazer>>Eleazer, jr.>>Jonathan>>Thomas>> Oren.

In a message dated 12/17/02 4:02:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, Marion, MAYFLOWER-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > <I found no birth record for Rufus M. at n.e.ancestors. > Hanover VR are not included at n.e.ancestors (NEHGS). I have access to a > microfilm copy at the Lynnfield, Mass. Library, if you can wait until after > Christmas for a lookup.> > Marion: There seems to be a record somewhere in the Hanover records. From the Internet I have a birth date of 17 Feb 1830 in Hanover Center, for a "Rufus Sturtevant", son of a George (no mother's name shown), but am not sure it's the same person as Rufus Miles Sturtevant, though the date corresponds to his own stated age (Civil War enlistment) as well as his death certificate (14 Jan 1919, age 88) which gives his parents as George STURTEVANT and Naomi SAMPSON. His death certificate says he was born in Pembroke. Nothing found in the published Pembroke VRs. I wonder what might cause an omission from the VRs. This family seem to have been Methodists. Could that be a factor? I have seen the volume of Hanover VRs compiled by the town in 1895. In the Forward it says that some of the original records are barely legible, so I suspect a number of copying errors have crept in. If the microfilm is a copy of the printed book it would not add to what I have, but if it is a copy of original records it certainly might be of help. I think I have enough on Rufus Miles STURTEVANT to satisfy the MSMD, as the Mayflower lines I have traced go through his mother, Naomi (Stetson) SAMPSON - including several generations with the given name "Miles" tracing to Myles STANDISH. I will be requesting his full Civil War pension file which ought to strengthen the case, but I doubt it will help much on the ancestry of his father, George. Thank you very much for your help. Merry Christmas to you and all on the List. Len

In a message dated 12/17/02 4:02:12 AM Eastern Standard Time, Merry Gonsalves, MAYFLOWER-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > Found a Rufus Sturtevant's death recorded in the 1840 Vermont Chronicle. May > contain more family info.... > > Name - Sturtevant, Rufus > Location - New York City > Event - death > Control # C0730 > > ordering instructions at: > http://community.middlebury.edu/~swilson/order.html > Thanks for this info. I do have this Rufus STURTEVANT of New York in my notes; he is a son of Josiah STURTEVANT and Lois FULLER, but he is not likely the father of George STURTEVANT (b. ca. 1809) of Pembroke who married Naomi SAMSON in 1831. The same can be said of his brother, George, who went to Vermont and raised a family there. I see no suggestion that either may have returned to Massachusetts to father George (b. ca. 1809). George (b. ca. 1809) and his wife were parents of Rufus Miles STURTEVANT who may have been born in Pembroke, or he may have been confused about his exact birthplace. In any event, except for Civil War service, he lived and died (in 1919) in Hanover. His first wife was Rebecca A. WOODMAN who died 22 Nov 1858; his second wife was Hannah Marie BENNER. It's the parentage of George (b. ca. 1809) that I'm trying to discover if possible. Len

Mimi asked: Can anyone elaborate on the comment that the Mayflower association will not accept information found on the Internet? Is this an all-inclusive standard or are there specific criteria? For example, if an Internet site posts images of the actual pages, census records, for instance, would that be an acceptable reference? I'm interested in knowing more about this restriction so that I don't waste time gathering "proof" that isn't any good to me in the end. _______________ Mimi, If you find actual images of records on the internet, print them out. If you print out an image (not a transcript) of actual records such as those you cite above (census) then yes, this is an acceptable source. Printing out data from someone's family web site is not an acceptable source. The society also does not accept any reference to the LDS internet site. Susan E. Roser www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html

Leo I run the SturDEvant list and posed your question to the list members. So far this is what was found: **************************************************** Found a Rufus Sturtevant's death recorded in the 1840 Vermont Chronicle. May contain more family info.... Name - Sturtevant, Rufus Location - New York City Event - death Control # C0730 ordering instructions at: http://community.middlebury.edu/~swilson/order.html ***********************************************************88 1850 Census - Orleans County, NY PIERCE, GEORGE S. 40 M NY FARMER 741 MARIA 38 F ELIZABETH 14 F WILLIAM 11 M ORPHA 7 F GOODENOW, ROSETTA 22 F OLSON, ELSA 25 F NORWAY STURDEVANT, RUFUS 77 M MASS also..the roster of the Second Mass Co K lists George and Rufus. See.. http://2mass.omnica.com/Rosters/roster_K2.htm

In a message dated 12/15/2002 9:17:44 AM Eastern Standard Time, roser@iprimus.ca writes: > NEGHS bookstore does, however, have a CD of Arnold's Vital > ***Record of Rhode > ***Island, 1636–1850 with all 21 volumes for purchase. Does anyone > ***know if that > ***CD contains the original pages and can be printed? Or is it a > ***transcribed > ***database like what you see online? > ______________ > > Carol, > > I have the CD and it is images of the original pages. I haven't had a need > to print out any pages yet but I believe the capability is there. > > Susan. > www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html > Susan, I printed out the indices and put them in a loose leaf binder. They printed out fine, and it makes look-ups much easier. Charlie B Charlie Bearse Morrisville, PA To Be Remembered May be The Secret To Immortality

Found four references to George Sturtevant. Online at newenglandancestors.org, from Massachusetts Vital Records VR Pembroke: birth record Sturtefant(see also Stirtevant, Sturtevant) George [h. Naomi S.] [Feb.-- 1809} G.R.1. marriage record Sturtevant George and Naomi Samson, July 17 [1831]. VR Plympton: birth record Sturtevant, George Winslow, ch. Winslow [q.v.] and Susanna Faxon, Feb. 9, 1805 in Halifax. From my copy of " A Historical Sketch of the Town of Hanover, Mass. with Family Genealogies" by John S. Barry, published in Boston in 1853, page 399 "Stutevant, Rufus M., s. Geo. of Pembroke, b. Feb. 17, 1830, m. Rececca A. Woodman, Mar. 1, 1852, lives on Centre St., with Seth Harding, and is a shoemaker, no ch." I found no birth record for Rufus M. at n.e.ancestors. Hanover VR are not included at n.e.ancestors (NEHGS). I have access to a microfilm copy at the Lynnfield, Mass. Library, if you can wait until after Christmas for a lookup. As for the Barry History of Hanover, it can be unreliable, but provides a point of reference. Hope this helps some. Marion Brooks Gonsalves --------------------------------- Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Mail Plus - Powerful. Affordable. Sign up now

I am researching the immediate ancestors of George STURTEVANT who was born probably about 1809. I'm not sure, but I suspect this date comes from the 1850 US Census (Halifax?). I have another note from the Internet that the Halifax VR gives his birth date as Feb, 9, 1805, but have not been able to find that entry in the published Halifax V.R. volume. His son, Rufus Miles STURTEVANT, born about 1830 (based on US 1850 census for Hanover and Civil War enlistment records), claimed birth in Pembroke (1st marriage record), but I have a note that a Rufus STURTEVANT, son of George, was born in Hanover Center 0n 17 Feb 1830. Pembroke Centre Cemetery Inscr. (G.R.-1)- "Pembroke Vit. Recs." "George, h. Naomi S. ---" gives birth date as "Feb 1809"; birth rec. "Halifax Vit. Recs." states "Feb 9, 1805". -?? (Can't find there). Pending further research, George STURTEVANT (b. ca. 1809) could be a son of either of the following-: Rufus Sturtevant, b. 23 April 1773, s. of Josiah Sturtevant, Esq. & Lois --- (Halifax VR, p. 26); OR George Sturtevant, b. 23 January 1775, s. of Josiah Sturtevant, Esq. & Lois --- (Halifax VR, p. 26). (Lois' maiden name was FULLER, descendant of Edward FULLER of "Mayflower", brother of Dr. Samuel FULLER of ythe "Mayflower".) The names of both of the above brothers strongly suggest that this is the family line I'm looking for, except for the fact that each seems to have moved from Massachusetts - George (who m. Betsey Washburn of Reading, Mass,) to Hartford, Vermont; and Rufus, who married a Mary MANNING (of a Connecticut family?), to New York. I have checked into several other families in the Pembroke-Halifax-Hanover areas but none seems to fit. I've checked for second marriages for either of the above, and siblings who might have been father of George (b. ca. 1809), but no luck. Can anyone help clarify this problem? THanks. Len

Can anyone elaborate on the comment that the Mayflower association will not accept information found on the Internet? Is this an all-inclusive standard or are there specific criteria? For example, if an Internet site posts images of the actual pages, census records, for instance, would that be an acceptable reference? I'm interested in knowing more about this restriction so that I don't waste time gathering "proof" that isn't any good to me in the end. Thanks. Mimi > [Original Message] > From: <ChoCompany@aol.com> > To: <MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com> > Date: 12/14/02 12:52:19 PM > Subject: [MFLR] Arnold's Vital Record of Rhode Island, 163 6���1850 > > Hello, > I am accumluating documentation for a Mayflower line and know that the > Mayflower association will not accept information found on the internet.

Mimi On the list what NOT to send : Copies of DAR or SAR applications for ancestors or yourself. Pedigree charts of any kind. Printouts from the IGI or other undocumented sources. Any type of electronically produced documentation downloaded from the internet. Your question of using images of actual primary sources is an interesting one. Seems a photocopy of the original source is ok, since that is essentially what we send in anyway. I would give your MF local office a call. Joan On Monday, December 16, 2002, at 06:29 AM, Mimi Barker wrote: <snip> > Can anyone elaborate on the comment that the Mayflower association > will not > accept information found on the Internet? Is this an all-inclusive > standard > or are there specific criteria? For example, if an Internet site posts > images of the actual pages, census records, for instance, would that > be an > acceptable reference?

I have my son-in-law traced back to several Mayflower ancestors, all surprisingly running through the STURTEVANT family. Because he is a FULLER it would be nice to find a descent from Dr. Samuel FULLER, but I have not been able to trace his paternal line to the Mayflower - at least not yet. However I recently found a possible FULLER line of descent through the STURTEVANT family. I believe the STURTEVANT line is reliably traced to George STURTEVANT (b. ca. 1800) who m. in 1831 (Pembroke) Naomi Stetson SAMSON. They had sons, Rufus Miles STURTEVANT (the ancestor), George STURTEVANT, Jr. and Peleg STURTEVANT (all Civil War veterans). They later lived in Hanover, Mass. Rufus and George apparently married sisters of the WOODMAN family, both of whom died before 1860. The second wife of Rufus was Hannah Marie BENNER whom he married probably shortly after the Civil War. I've had trouble finding parentage of George (b. ca. 1800), but one family in the Halifax V.R. looks promising. A Josiah STURTEVANT, Esq., who m. a Lois --- had children Rufus and George, b. 1773 and 1775, among a number of others. I suspect Rufus was the father of George (b. ca. 1800). My question: was the Lois who m. Josiah STURTEVANT, Esq. surnamed FULLER as one source states? If so, she may be a descendant of Dr. Samuel FULLER and also of Francis BILLINGTON (based for now on Internet sources, yet to be verified). I would appreciate any help on this line. Thanks, Len

Hello Joanna - and any one else interested in Elizabeth's parentage - I can't help you - I am in the same 'boat' as your are - this is my notes on Elizabeth - =============================== NOTES: As I see it now, Elizabeth was not the d/o Samuel 3) WHITE - in fact I can't find an Elizabeth as a d/o of any SAMUEL WHITE'S- [26 Jan 2002 wfh] so was she??? Elizabeth White was the 6th gr gm of Mrs Virginia R. C. HILGERS .. Elizabeth md 15 Feb 1699 Samuel Thorpe 1674-1753 ================================ Virginia R.C. HILGERS and I were in touch long time ago - she sent her pedigree showing Elizabeth as the d/o Samuel WHITE and Dinah KENNEY - Samuel WHITE as the s/o Resolve WHITE and Judith VASSALL Resolve WHITE as the s/o William WHITE and Susanna [FULLER] - this was on 27 March 1967 - This is what she wrote on the back of her pedigree chart - "I have found that the correct 'WHITE' line is difficult to find - I searched for 6 years before I was finally able to learn the parents of 'Elizabeth' my 6th grt. grandmother. Finally a Mrs. THORPE in New York saw my ad in the "Helper" and it was from her that I recently secured that information I have on this chart. The only complete family group sheet I have is the one for Elizabeth and Samuel THORPE. I have what I believe is only a partial group sheet for William (#8) WHITE which states he had a son Resolve and Peregrine who was born aboard the MAYFLOWER in cape Cod Harbor, Mass. Peregrine has a long line of descendants, I believe. William WHITE md Susannah FULLER in Leyden, South Holland, Netherlands. Possible none of this information will ever be of any help to you, but one can never tell, so thought it best to include what I have just in case. The next time I go to the Los Angeles Central Library I intend to search further on the 'White' line, and will let you know if I find anything further on your Samuel and Joanna. Sincerely, Virginian R.C. Hilgers P.S. Samuel THORPE and Elizabeth WHITE had a son Samuel born 15 Feb 1710 who md Ruth LYON on 14 Oct 1736. Excuse me, I had the above typed before I realized 'Samuel' would be a THORPE instead of a white. Hope I can be of some help to you in the future. end of her note- ======================================== I realize this was almost 40 years ago - but perhaps there is a clue here that I don't see - Wilma Fleming Haynes gencon@harborside.com ----------------- I have been searching for parentage of an Elizabeth White, b. 4 Mar 1676 'of Dedham, MA, supposedly d/o Samuel White of Dedham. I keep finding her identified as Elizabeth White b. 4 Mar 1673(Samuel, Resolved, William) My silver book on the Whites says there are no further records of Elizabeth, but that book is dated 1975. Can anyone tell me what happened to Elizabeth? Can she possibly be the Elizabeth White who married 1699 Samuel Thorpe of Dedham? Joanne Hunt

Hello Joanna - and any one else interested in Elizabeth's parentage - I can't help you - I am in the same 'boat' as your are - this is my notes on Elizabeth - =============================== NOTES: As I see it now, Elizabeth was not the d/o Samuel 3) WHITE - in fact I can't find an Elizabeth as a d/o of any SAMUEL WHITE'S- [26 Jan 2002 wfh] so was she??? Elizabeth White was the 6th gr gm of Mrs Virginia R. C. HILGERS .. Elizabeth md 15 Feb 1699 Samuel Thorpe 1674-1753 ================================ Virginia R.C. HILGERS and I were in touch long time ago - she sent her pedigree showing Elizabeth as the d/o Samuel WHITE and Dinah KENNEY - Samuel WHITE as the s/o Resolve WHITE and Judith VASSALL Resolve WHITE as the s/o William WHITE and Susanna [FULLER] - this was on 27 March 1967 - This is what she wrote on the back of her pedigree chart - "I have found that the correct 'WHITE' line is difficult to find - I searched for 6 years before I was finally able to learn the parents of 'Elizabeth' my 6th grt. grandmother. Finally a Mrs. THORPE in New York saw my ad in the "Helper" and it was from her that I recently secured that information I have on this chart. The only complete family group sheet I have is the one for Elizabeth and Samuel THORPE. I have what I believe is only a partial group sheet for William (#8) WHITE which states he had a son Resolve and Peregrine who was born aboard the MAYFLOWER in cape Cod Harbor, Mass. Peregrine has a long line of descendants, I believe. William WHITE md Susannah FULLER in Leyden, South Holland, Netherlands. Possible none of this information will ever be of any help to you, but one can never tell, so thought it best to include what I have just in case. The next time I go to the Los Angeles Central Library I intend to search further on the 'White' line, and will let you know if I find anything further on your Samuel and Joanna. Sincerely, Virginian R.C. Hilgers P.S. Samuel THORPE and Elizabeth WHITE had a son Samuel born 15 Feb 1710 who md Ruth LYON on 14 Oct 1736. Excuse me, I had the above typed before I realized 'Samuel' would be a THORPE instead of a white. Hope I can be of some help to you in the future. end of her note- ======================================== I realize this was almost 40 years ago - but perhaps there is a clue here that I don't see - Wilma Fleming Haynes gencon@harborside.com ----------------- I have been searching for parentage of an Elizabeth White, b. 4 Mar 1676 'of Dedham, MA, supposedly d/o Samuel White of Dedham. I keep finding her identified as Elizabeth White b. 4 Mar 1673(Samuel, Resolved, William) My silver book on the Whites says there are no further records of Elizabeth, but that book is dated 1975. Can anyone tell me what happened to Elizabeth? Can she possibly be the Elizabeth White who married 1699 Samuel Thorpe of Dedham? Joanne Hunt

I want to thank Susan Roser for the information requarding the publication of the MIFP on George Soule's son Nathaniel's family branch into the 5th and 6th generation. I am interested now to find out if William H. Soule ( who md Ellen Smith) is listed as a child of Gardner Soule and Abegail Curtis. Silvia Poules

I have been searching for parentage of an Elizabeth White, b. 4 Mar 1676 'of Dedham, MA, supposedly d/o Samuel White of Dedham. I keep finding her identified as Elizabeth White b. 4 Mar 1673(Samuel, Resolved, William) My silver book on the Whites says there are no further records of Elizabeth, but that book is dated 1975. Can anyone tell me what happened to Elizabeth? Can she possibly be the Elizabeth White who married 1699 Samuel Thorpe of Dedham? Joanne Hunt