In the MFIP for William Brewster it says they have not conclusively proven the surname for the Mary who married William Brewster; however under the references it does titilate a researcher with this note which is made on page 5 as (a) "the name of Mary Wentworth has been proposed for the wife of William Brewster. Articles published in TAG 41:1-5, 63; MQ 36:55-57, and HEHGR 124-250-254 confirm that ADDITIONAL RESERACH MUST BE DONE BEFORE ACCEPTING THIS SURNAME AS FACT. (emphasis added). In addtion, a private published pamphlet by John G. Hunt, "Of Mary Brewster, Wife of William Brewster of the Mayflower, from Plymouth, England to New Plymouth, New England" (1985), suggests that William Brewster's wife was named Mary Wyrall of Loversall, near Doncaster. THIS HAS YET TO BE PROVED (emphasis added). Therefore, if the researcher who has the Mary Wentworth connected to William Brewster wishes to be accurate, it is highly suggested to remove the connection to Mary Wentworth as the wife until such time as The Mayflower Society accepts her as the wife. Which from the MFIP appears to not be the case at this point. Perhaps Susan Roser, who reads this website, might put her two cents worth is as to the acceptability of this linegage into the Mayflower Society. Christie Trapp

Hello, There is an auction on a genealogy that details the ancestry of a Mayflower descendant (Fuller, Howland, and Tilley) on eBay and I thought some of you may be interested. It can be found here: <A HREF="http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2903116879">http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=2903116879</A> You are bidding on Ancestors of Rogers Bruce Johnson From Immigration to the Present Times - 1620 to 1996 - Volume V by Rogers Bruce Johnson. The book is a hardcover edition and is 479 pages in length, including illustrations and index. It was published by the Penobscot Press in 2002. In this genealogy you will find genealogical details on the ancestors R. B. Johnson, as the title indicates. These ancestral families came mainly from New England and New York. Some of his ancestors include such individuals as John Howland, John Tilley, and Matthew Fuller, all Mayflower passengers. He also descends from some notable colonial clergy. This includes the Rev. Joseph Hill, Oxford graduate and minister to Weymouth, Mass and Rev. John Lathrop, Cambridge graduate. Here is a list of the most prominent families (with 5 or more individuals listed) in the genealogy, per the index: ALLEN BARTO, BECKWITH, BROOKS, BROTHERTON, BROWN, BRUSH, BURSLEY, BURT CARY, CHIPMAN, CLARK / CLARKE, CLOTHIER, COLTON, CONKLYNE, COOKE DENTON, DIMMOCK FELLOWS, FORD, FULLER GOES, GRISWOLD HOLBROOK, HOSFORD, HOWLAND, HULL, HYER JACKSON, JOHNSON KEEP LATHROP / LOTHROP, LEONARD MARVIN, MOL / MULL NEWELL PALMER, PECKHAM, PITMAN, PLACE REED, RING, ROGERS, ROWLEY SAUNDERS, SMITH, STARR, STRYCKER THOMPSON, TILLEY / TILLY, TOTTEN, TREDWELL, TURK, TWINING VAN ARSDALE, VAN VALKENBURG, VICKERS WEEDEN, WEEDON, WHITMARSH, WINCHELL, WOLCOTT, WOODFORD, WOODRUFF, WRIGHT, WYCKOFF / WYCOFF

At 06:54 PM 12/29/02 -0500, you wrote: >I would like to know if anyone has any information of the lineage of this >WENTWORTH line below. I have dug up this information so far and was amazed >to find the connection to both families. Deacon John DUNHAM is of my line, >William BREWSTER is not. I do however have Edward FULLER which also connects >to Deacon John DUNHAM throught LATHROP, BONHAM and MARTIN lineages. > >William Brewster of the Mayflower was married to Mary Wentworth > >Mary Wentworth, wife of William Brewster (of the Mayflower) was the: >Child of: Thomas Wentworth and Grace Gascoigne >Grandchild of: William Wentworth and Katherine Beeston >Great Grandchild of: Sir Thomas "Good Thomas" Wentworth and Beatrice Woodrow >Great Grandchild of: William Wentworth and Isabel Fitzwilliam > >Deacon John Dunham of Plymouth was the: >Child of: Thomas Dunham and Janet Bromeley >Grandchild of: Elizabeth Wentworth and Ralph Dunham >Great Grandchild of: Thomas "Good Thomas" Wentworth and Beatrice Woodrove >Great Grandchild of: William Wentworth and Isabel Fitzwilliam > >Therefore: Deacon John Dunham and Mary Wentworth were 2nd cousins. It may be that *SOME* John Dunham was second cousin of Mary Wentworth, but it wasn't Deacon John Dunham of Plymouth, Mass. The latter was not the son of Thomas and Jane (Bromley) Dunham, but instead the son of Richard Dunham of Langford, co. Bedford, England. See the following article: Ward, Robert Leigh, "The English Origin and First Marriage of Deacon John-1 Dunham of Plymouth, Massachusetts," _The American Genealogist_, vol. 71, no. 3 (Jul 1996), pp. 130-133. Furthermore, it is not proven, and now considered unlikely, that Mary Wentworth was the same Mary ----- who married Elder William-1 Brewster. Consult Caleb Johnson's "Mayflower" website, following these directions: Go to <http://members.aol.com/calebj/mayflower.html>. On the left-hand side, under "Passenger Lists", click on "Mayflower 1620". On the new left-hand side, click on "Brewster, William". On the new right-hand side, scroll down to "Note on William Brewster's Wife". Regards, Robert Robert L. Ward Genealogical Research 12236 Shadetree Lane, Laurel, MD 20708-2832 301-776-1659 http://www.rlward.com/ <info@rlward.com>

I would like to know if anyone has any information of the lineage of this WENTWORTH line below. I have dug up this information so far and was amazed to find the connection to both families. Deacon John DUNHAM is of my line, William BREWSTER is not. I do however have Edward FULLER which also connects to Deacon John DUNHAM throught LATHROP, BONHAM and MARTIN lineages. William Brewster of the Mayflower was married to Mary Wentworth Mary Wentworth, wife of William Brewster (of the Mayflower) was the: Child of: Thomas Wentworth and Grace Gascoigne Grandchild of: William Wentworth and Katherine Beeston Great Grandchild of: Sir Thomas "Good Thomas" Wentworth and Beatrice Woodrow Great Grandchild of: William Wentworth and Isabel Fitzwilliam Deacon John Dunham of Plymouth was the: Child of: Thomas Dunham and Janet Bromeley Grandchild of: Elizabeth Wentworth and Ralph Dunham Great Grandchild of: Thomas "Good Thomas" Wentworth and Beatrice Woodrove Great Grandchild of: William Wentworth and Isabel Fitzwilliam Therefore: Deacon John Dunham and Mary Wentworth were 2nd cousins.

It is not proven that William Brewster married Mary Wentworth. "His wife, Mary, whose maiden name has not been discovered, 'dyed at Plymouth in new England the 17th of Aprill, 1627.' (Brewster Book). Bradford says that, though she died 'long before' her husband, 'yet she dyed aged,' but by her affidavit of 1609 she was less than sixty years of age and it is probable that her 'great & continuall labours, with others crosses, and sorrows, hastened it (i. e. old age) before ye time.' Elder Brewster survived his wife many years and 'dyed at Plymouth in New England the 10th of Aprill, 1644.' (Brewster Book). also: [Barbara Lambert Merrick (compiled by), "William Brewster of the Mayflower," General Society of Mayflower Descendants, Revised 3rd edition 2000, pp. 1-4.] states the following: "William Brewster, born probably Doncaster, Yorkshire, England, circa 1566/7 died Plymouth, Mass., 10 April 1644, about 9 or 10 o'clock that evening; son of William and Mary (Smythe) (Simkinson) Brewster. His place of burial is unknown. William married England before 1593 Mary, born probably England circa 1568/9, died Plymouth 17 April 1627. Her surname and parentage have not yet been proven. No birth records have been found for William Brewster or his wife Mary. Each of their birth years has been determined from an affidavit of declaration made before the magis-trates of Leyden, Holland, on 25 June 1609, in which "William Brewster of St. Ursual-steeg, Englishman, aged 42 years, Mary Brewster, his wife, aged 40 years, and their son Jonathan Brewster, aged 16 years," acknowledged receipt of cloths from Bernard Rosse of Amsterdam, Englishman." Sorry to bear these sad tidings. Unless someone else has proven Mary was Mary Wentworth..... Father John Haldane (Brewster descendant) >From: DMS59Dart@aol.com >To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com >Subject: [MFLR] Relationship of William Brewster and Deacon John Dunham of >Plymouth Colony >Date: Sun, 29 Dec 2002 18:54:54 EST > >I would like to know if anyone has any information of the lineage of this >WENTWORTH line below. I have dug up this information so far and was amazed >to find the connection to both families. Deacon John DUNHAM is of my line, >William BREWSTER is not. I do however have Edward FULLER which also >connects >to Deacon John DUNHAM throught LATHROP, BONHAM and MARTIN lineages. > >William Brewster of the Mayflower was married to Mary Wentworth > >Mary Wentworth, wife of William Brewster (of the Mayflower) was the: >Child of: Thomas Wentworth and Grace Gascoigne >Grandchild of: William Wentworth and Katherine Beeston >Great Grandchild of: Sir Thomas "Good Thomas" Wentworth and Beatrice >Woodrow >Great Grandchild of: William Wentworth and Isabel Fitzwilliam > >Deacon John Dunham of Plymouth was the: >Child of: Thomas Dunham and Janet Bromeley >Grandchild of: Elizabeth Wentworth and Ralph Dunham >Great Grandchild of: Thomas "Good Thomas" Wentworth and Beatrice Woodrove >Great Grandchild of: William Wentworth and Isabel Fitzwilliam > >Therefore: Deacon John Dunham and Mary Wentworth were 2nd cousins. > > >==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== >Check out the web page of the General Society of Mayflower Descendants at >http://www.mayflower.org/ _________________________________________________________________ MSN 8 limited-time offer: Join now and get 3 months FREE*. http://join.msn.com/?page=dept/dialup&xAPID=42&PS=47575&PI=7324&DI=7474&SU= http://www.hotmail.msn.com/cgi-bin/getmsg&HL=1216hotmailtaglines_newmsn8ishere_3mf

Robert wrote: I see that many people on this list display secondary, tertiary and even quaternary descendency from the Pilgrim Fathers. I have had my first line (Chilton) approved. I was wondering what the procedure is to get these other lines approved, or if you even do. I have Thomas Rogers and Edward Doty connections and possibly Francis Cooke as well if we can ever discover which wife of Josiah Leonard of Bridgewater was the mother of Samuel, Marjoram Washburn or Abigail Washburn. ______________________________ Robert, The secondary lines are referred to as "Supplementals" - where you have already proven your first, or primary, line with the society and wish to have additional lines of descent approved. Usually a supplementary line comes in early on - in the first few generations, therefore the procedure to have them approved is quite simple. Let your state historian know you would like to file a supplemental, let her/him know the line and ask if she/he has the MF book which contains your line. If so, he/she will be able to provide the necessary sources for the early generations up to the point where your primary line kicks in. Then, since the info is all the same, you merely cite the sources from your first approved paper for the rest of your line. It is not necessary to provide another set of copies of your documentation since the society already has a set with your first approved line. There is a fee to file a supplemental paper and some societies issue a certificate naming your ancestor for each supplemental line you have approved. Please don't hesitate to ask if you have any further questions. Susan E. Roser, Governor & Historian Canadian Society www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html

Some of us like the President and other of us don't - the country is divided in half on that subject - let's go on to Christmas and genealogy and forget who likes which President - We all have our opinions - Have wonderful Holidays Wilma Fleming Haynes gencon@harborside.com Continue the hate mail if you must but it seems that your attempts to scapegoat me in this fashion really reveals how fragile you are. If you don't want a small comment regarding politics then please don't post inflamatory slieghts about the president. Mr. patriot, please show respect and capitalize "President. Thanks, Ed Sherman ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== Check out the web page of the General Society of Mayflower Descendants at http://www.mayflower.org/

I hate to appear stupid or uninformed. I know of only one kind of descendancy.: parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc. What are secondary, tertiary and quaternary descendancies? Joanne Hunt, direct desc. of William White, Thomas Rogers, John Tilley, John Howland and William Brewster

I guess what I meant was like what you showed: Joanne Hunt, direct desc. of William White, Thomas Rogers, John Tilley, John Howland and William Brewster Joanne Hunt wrote: >I hate to appear stupid or uninformed. I know of only one kind of >descendancy.: parents, grandparents, great grandparents, etc. What are >secondary, tertiary and quaternary descendancies? >Joanne Hunt, direct desc. of William White, Thomas Rogers, John Tilley, John >Howland and William Brewster > > -- Robert Luce <rluce@pacbell.net> --- Il faut supporter deux ou trois chenilles --- si on veut connaître les papillons.. --- -Antoine de Saint Exupéry

I see that many people on this list display secondary, tertiary and even quaternary descendency from the Pilgrim Fathers. I have had my first line (Chilton) approved. I was wondering what the procedure is to get these other lines approved, or if you even do. I have Thomas Rogers and Edward Doty connections and possibly Francis Cooke as well if we can ever discover which wife of Josiah Leonard of Bridgewater was the mother of Samuel, Marjoram Washburn or Abigail Washburn. Happy holidays to all! -- Robert Luce <rluce@pacbell.net> --- Il faut supporter deux ou trois chenilles --- si on veut connaître les papillons.. --- -Antoine de Saint Exupéry

Since writing the message below I have been able to consult "Hinckleys of Maine" by Marlene Alma Hinkley Groves, and see that she does indeed cite Shubael (she spells it Shubeal) as the father of Mercy Nancy. She lists Lydia Bangs, Mary Snow and Elizabeth Whitford as wives of a Shubael a generation earlier (uncle to the one I am concerned with), and Mary Smith, Elizabeth Worster and Sarah Young as wives of Shubael, son of Mary Freeman and Samuel. She states that Mercy (or Mary) b. Oct 7, 1734 is a child of the first wife, Mary Smith. She does not cite a source for this relationship. Is anyone else familiar with this book who can give me an opinion on its accuracy and reliability? I have the Brewster pink book on fifth generation descendants through daughter Patience, so I am confident in the data for these first five generations. The book even lists both Seth and Shubael in generation six as sons of Mary Freeman and husband Samuel Hinckley, but does not name wives or children for either of them. Thus my problem is confined to this sixth generation. I have also seen citations referencing a book titled, "The Ancestry of Mercy Hinckley (1734-1814), wife of Benjamin Whitney in Maine," by Hugh A Johnson, published privately in Alaska in 1990. I presume this book addresses the issue, but I haven't been able to get my hands on a copy yet. NEHGS has it but not available for loan. Is anyone familiar with THIS book, who could give me an idea if it would help me with this question? Any suggestions as to where I could look for primary records or reliable secondary sources? I've already written to the Vital Records Offices in Brunswick and Lisbon, ME, but have come up empty so far. Are vital records from this time period archived or transcribed somewhere else? I appreciate the wisdom and experience represented on this list and hope there is someone out there with an answer or some clues to help me on my quest. Thanks! Mimi *************** (original message sent Dec 12-02) I am trying to document a Mayflower line from William Brewster, and have run into a snag with the Hinckleys. Can anyone here help me clear this up? This is the line I thought I had and have been trying to document: William Brewster, Mayflower passenger Thomas Prence m. Patience Brewster, Edmond Freeman m. Mercy Prence, Sarah Mayo m. John Freeman, Samuel Hinckley m. Mary Freeman, Seth Hinckley m. Thankful Atwood, Mercy Nancy Hinckley m. Benjamin Whitney, Isabella Whitney m. Increase Blethen, Sarah Blethen m. Thaddeus Richardson, Mary Jane Richardson m. Jacob Johnson Barker, had George, who had Miles, who had Lynn, who had Milton, who had me. But now I have heard from someone that "You do not have the correct order and the right people in your list. It should be: Thomas Prence and Patience Brewster Mercy Prence and John Freeman Edmond Freeman and Sarah Mayo Mary Freeman and Samuel Hinckley Shubeal Hinckley and Mary Smith Mercy Nancy Hinckley and Benjamin Whitney Isabella Whitney and Increase Blethen" This writer later named his source for this info as "a book in the Mayflower Library: "Hinckleys of Maine" by Marlene Alma Hinkley Groves Penobscot Press information is found on page 20 & 21 about Shubeal and Mary Smith pages 30 and 31 for Mary Mercy Hinckley and Benjamin Whitney" So were Mercy Nancy Hinckley's parents not Seth and Thankful Atwood Hinckley, but Shubael and Mary Smith Hinckley? Shubael and Seth are brothers and thus both Mayflower descendants, but I need to know which was the father of my Mercy Nancy who married Benjamin Whitney. When I raised the question on a Hinckley list, I found out that "the Mayflower Ancestral Index (1981) shows that the parents of Mercy Hinckley (17346) and Benj. Whitney are Shubael Hickley (17367) and Sarah Young not Mary Smith. Mary was married to another Shubael Hinckley(17366). Other numbers : Patience Brewster - 4708 Mercy Prence - 27345 Edmond Freeman - 13160 Mary Freeman - 13335" I have heard that the Mayflower Society will no longer accept this index as proof of lineage, and I don't have access to the other book cited to verify that info, or what sources it uses. Can anyone help, or point me to a reliable source which might help? Thanks

I apopogize to any of you I may have offended. Making Bush a hero is offensive to many of us and I just got tired of seing the same old messages re: his ancestry. Be Well and Happy, Neil Abbey Researching ABBEY,ABBA,MALTBY,ARMSTRONG,HALL,SOULE,DESAUTELS, FOUNTAIN

You know, maybe this thread isn't as "off topic" as it might seem! Didn't our ancestors (the ones who are the reason this list even exists...) also have a somewhat "argumentative," not-willing-to-accept-the-standard-fare, streak to them?? And that's why (the extremely simplified version of "why"...) they just happened to get on a rickety little boat and head to who knows where some 400 years ago??! Maybe there are things less tangible than hair and eye color that are hereditary!! Happy holidays to all AND peace on earth (which would include this list!)! :-) Kathy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ "I am accustomed to hearing malicious falsehoods about myself...but I think I have a right to object to libelous statements about my dog." -- Franklin D. Roosevelt Check out my genealogy web pages! http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/f/e/n/K-Fenton/index.html ~AND~ http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=twigsandbranches Recycle yourself! Tell someone you want to be an organ and tissue donor!

My Lord, what has happened to this List?! You're out of control! PLEASE STOP!! EVERYONE - NOW. Hugh

In a message dated 21/12/2002 3:04:26 PM Eastern Standard Time, MAYFLOWER-D-request@rootsweb.com writes: > "and what applies to the elected President Bush presumably applies also > to the appointed President Bush" > > > An incorrect statement. Both Bushes were, in every sense of the word, > "elected." Most informed folks are aware of that. Dubya wasn't elected. > > I thought we were to stick to Mayflower-related information? Why the > cheap shot? > Probably because it's the truth!

>From what I've read, Quayle is descended from John Alden and Priscilla Mullins.

"This, too, shall pass." Peace and blessings to each of you. Cathy PORTER-Maynard <><

Again, Please stop. No more politics I can suggest several political lists for you to join. (And please recognize it will take some time for everyone to see these admonitions so stop replying to them too.) Thank you. Craig Rich Listowner: MAYFLOWER-L and RICH-

AND I HAVE MANY MANY MORE MAYFLOWER AND ROYALTY THAN DUBYA -- Be Well and Happy, Neil Abbey Researching ABBEY,ABBA,MALTBY,ARMSTRONG,HALL,SOULE,DESAUTELS, FOUNTAIN http://www.soft-light.com/genelinks/ with 700 or so links http://www.soft-light.com/abbeyfamily/ ancestors

WELL SAID DIANA