A comment was made to the list that it was "unfortunate" that the Mayflower Society used the word "Society" as part of its name because it represented "high society." I would like to disagree with this comment because "high society" is not all that the word "society" means. For example, in Blacks Law Dictionary the word society is defined as: "An association or company of persons (generally unincorporated) united together by mutual consent, in order to deliberate, determine, and act jointly for some common purpose. In a wider sense, the community or public; the people in general." This definition was provided by case law: Gilmer v. Stone, 120 U.S. 586, 7 S.Ct. 689, 30 L.Ed 734. For those of you who are not in the legal field and don't know how to find case law I will provide a brief explanation of the case decided. There are three different books which will provide this citation. One is found in volume 30 of Law Edition at page 734. One is found in volume 7 of the Supreme Court Reports at page 689 and the last will be found in volume 120 of the United States Reports at page 586. Not every law library can afford to carry every single volume of law reports published throughout the United States. So if one were to go to a law library you can ask for any of these three and they should have at least one. In your normal dictionary such as a Webster's Dictionary you will find the word "society" defined as: 1. Compansionship or association with one's fellows: friendly or intimate intercourse: Company. 2. A voluntary association of individuals for common ends; esp: an organized group working together or periodically meeting because of common interests, beliefs,or profession. 3. (a) an enduring and cooperating social group whose members have developed organized patterns of relationships through interaction with one another (b) a community, nation, or broad grouping of people having common traditions, institutions, and collective activities and interests. 4. (a) a part of a community that is a unit distinguishable by particular aims or standards of living or conduct: a social circle or a groujp of social circles having a clearly marked identity < move in polite~> <literary ~> (b) a part of the community that sets itself apart as a leisure class and that regards itself as the arbiter of fashion and manners. 5. (a)(1) a natural group of plants us. of a single species or habit within an association (2) Association. 6 (b) the progeny of a pair of insections when constituting a social unit (as a hive of bees); broadly: an interdependent system of organizisms or biological units." Outside of the aspect of the definition which describes the word to nature I believe that the beginning parts which describe the Mayflower Society as defined as Nos. 1-3 apply. I believe that No. 4 is what the writer of the comment meaning "high society" is what that part of definition is applicable. Therefore, in conclusion, the Mayflower Society is just that: an organization that falls under No. 2: A voluntary association of individuals for common ends; esp: an organized group working together or periodically meeting because of common interests, beliefs,or profession. It has nothing to do with "high society" by any sense of the word. Christie Trapp

ANSWER: Yes!!!! Elisha and Eunice (Woodward) POWELL moved from Strafford, Vermont to New York. They died in Livonia, NY and are buried in Oakridge Cemetery. Elisha's father died 1801 and his mother died September 7, 1806. They died in Hartford, Vermont and are buried in the Delano Cemetery. COOKE and WARREN Mayflower Ancestry of Lucina (POWELL) ALGER, Strafford, Orange County, Vermont (1780-1871) 1. Richard WARREN m. Elizabeth ----- 2. Ann WARREN 1. Francis COOKE m. Thomas Little m. Hester Mahieu 3. Hannah LITTLE 2. Mary COOKE m. Stephen Tilden m. John Tomson 4. Stephen TILDEN 3. Hester TOMSON m. Mary Powell m. William Reed 5. Mary TILDEN 4. Sarah REED m. Rowland Powell(cousins) m. Hezekiah King 6. Rowland POWELL 5. Mary KING m. Mary Ann Richardson m. Henry Woodward 7. Elisha POWELL >>>>>>>>>>6. Eunice WOODWARD m. Eunice Woodward m. Elisha Powell 8. & 7. Lucina POWELL m. Aaron Alger ----- Original Message ----- From: MayTHREE@aol.com To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com ; fourthestate@fcgnetworks.net Sent: Monday, February 10, 2003 11:18 PM Subject: COOKE-TOMSON-REED-KING-WOODWARD-POWELL-ALGER QUESTION: Do you have Rowland Powell (b. abt. 1730, Lebanon, New London, CT) and Mary Ann Richardson (b. abt.1728/29, Willington, Tolland, CT) as the parents of Elisha Powell?

To Ruth T. in NH and to everyone on this Mailing List: We all wish we had an Auntie like you, Ruth! It is unfortunate that the Mayflower organization has as part of its name the word "Society," because it denotes "High Society." Most of us know that many of our ancestors, who came to this country and even before they came to this country, were ordinary people, trying to raise and protect their families. Some of our ancestors even committed sins and crimes, depending upon who is judging them. For the most part, I have even a greater love for the people in my large family, because I come from many families, who were all loving, caring people, regardless of their race, religion, nationality, education, or economic status. In the last month, I have found some living descendants of the family of the sister of my great-great-grandfather, and the wonderful coincidences of common given names just warms my heart! Meeting descendants of my ancestors has been such a wonderful experience for me, because you can see the common genes and feel the familial love. Whoever said this was very wise: "The living person you contact can be worth more than all the papers you find". - Unknown Author (Anyone know who?) Lois K. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ruth Turner" <renrut@worldpath.net> To: <MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, February 12, 2003 1:10 PM Subject: Re: [MFLR] William BRADFORD > Dear Listers: I am a single woman----and I have been doing research on my > family lines since 1974. Why? I have no children--but I am doing it as a > legacy to my five nephews and nieces and their children (nine great grand > nephews and nieces). I have found 15 Patirots who fought in The American > Revolution ( and still looking), two Mayflower Ancestors ( and still > looking), and so far, only three great, grand uncles who fought in The War > of The Rebellion. All of this, is of great satisfaction to me, and I hope > it will be to the younger generation!!!! > Ruth T. in NH > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "James Crippen" <crippen3@alaska.com> > To: <MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:13 PM > Subject: Re: [MFLR] William BRADFORD > > > > Susan Masse: > > If one becomes too academically challenged on > > contemplating GSMD membership, think of the great > > snob appeal. Not to generate another great debate > > here, but our Mayflower families are the folk who > > made this great nation what it is today, the most > > treasured residence on earth. The Mayflower Compact > > was, after all, the genesis for "My Country tis of > > Thee". > > Regards, > > Jim Crippen > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Susan Masse <smasse@wvi.com> > > Date: Monday, February 10, 2003 7:23 pm > > Subject: Re: [MFLR] William BRADFORD > > > > > > > > >and- > > > >Is there any interest in a STEPHEN HOPKINS Family > > Society? > > > >Gini Patterson > > > >gini1223@comcast.net > > > > > > Hi, > > > I've been lurking. I recently found out through > > another researcher > > > that I > > > am a Hopkins descendant. So I have a question: > > > (and please don't take this as mean-spirited, or > > anything like > > > that, > > > because I really do want to know) > > > > > > Why go through the process and join the Society? I > > don't have any > > > children, > > > and only one cousin from that side of the family > > (who doesn't seem > > > to > > > interested in any of the genealogy stuff). > > > > > > Thanks > > > > > > Sue > > > > > > > > > ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== > > > Check out the Mayflower FAQ (Frequently Asked > > Questions)page at > > > http://www.macatawa.org/~crich/mayfaq.htm . > > > > > > > > > > > > ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== > > Check out the web page of the General Society of Mayflower Descendants at > http://www.mayflower.org/ > > > > > > > ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== > Check out the web page of the General Society of Mayflower Descendants at http://www.mayflower.org/ > >

I am wondering if anyone can explain the following notations found in the VR series. Ichabod's birth date is not stated, unlike the other children of the same family. Was he a twin with Abiah? Was Abiah a male or female? --: Ichabod's birth record, Plympton V.R.s, page 204 reads: "Ichabod, ch. Noah and Suseanah (sic.) (See Abiah - Sept. 2, 1747)". Abiah's birth record reads: "Abiah, ch. Noah and Suseanah (d. Nathaniel Harlow of P. and Patience); s, of Nehemiah and Ruth; s. of Dea. Samuel, one of the first Settlers of Halifax, and Mercy), Sept. 2, 1747". Entries in Plympton V.R.s reference each of Noah and Suseanah's nine children to the above entry for Abiah. No birth date for Ichabod is given, but by interpolation it appears he was born about 1750, but possibly the omission means he was born as a twin with Abiah. Thanks, Len Keane

Dear Listers: I am a single woman----and I have been doing research on my family lines since 1974. Why? I have no children--but I am doing it as a legacy to my five nephews and nieces and their children (nine great grand nephews and nieces). I have found 15 Patirots who fought in The American Revolution ( and still looking), two Mayflower Ancestors ( and still looking), and so far, only three great, grand uncles who fought in The War of The Rebellion. All of this, is of great satisfaction to me, and I hope it will be to the younger generation!!!! Ruth T. in NH ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Crippen" <crippen3@alaska.com> To: <MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, February 11, 2003 4:13 PM Subject: Re: [MFLR] William BRADFORD > Susan Masse: > If one becomes too academically challenged on > contemplating GSMD membership, think of the great > snob appeal. Not to generate another great debate > here, but our Mayflower families are the folk who > made this great nation what it is today, the most > treasured residence on earth. The Mayflower Compact > was, after all, the genesis for "My Country tis of > Thee". > Regards, > Jim Crippen > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Susan Masse <smasse@wvi.com> > Date: Monday, February 10, 2003 7:23 pm > Subject: Re: [MFLR] William BRADFORD > > > > > >and- > > >Is there any interest in a STEPHEN HOPKINS Family > Society? > > >Gini Patterson > > >gini1223@comcast.net > > > > Hi, > > I've been lurking. I recently found out through > another researcher > > that I > > am a Hopkins descendant. So I have a question: > > (and please don't take this as mean-spirited, or > anything like > > that, > > because I really do want to know) > > > > Why go through the process and join the Society? I > don't have any > > children, > > and only one cousin from that side of the family > (who doesn't seem > > to > > interested in any of the genealogy stuff). > > > > Thanks > > > > Sue > > > > > > ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== > > Check out the Mayflower FAQ (Frequently Asked > Questions)page at > > http://www.macatawa.org/~crich/mayfaq.htm . > > > > > > > ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== > Check out the web page of the General Society of Mayflower Descendants at http://www.mayflower.org/ > >

Len, You mentioned off-list just now that you'd check to see when Ichabod's dad died. I think it was quite late--no joy there. However, try this. The Genferret has to work fast before the handlers find out the Genferret is loose, so this may not work. Plympton VR has marriage of Jane, dau. Ichabod and Ruth and specifies Ichabod, s. Noah and that Ruth was of Pembroke. Pembroke VR has Ichabod, h. of Ruth b. Dec 1771 Pembroke VR also has Ich. m. Ruth Grant, Apr 3 1803. If these are the right people, and the dates are a little strange, it may be that Noah only felt like he was dead by the time Ichabod was born. Sorry, they've got me by the tail--have to go. Good luck. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com

--- T0Leo@aol.com wrote: > I am wondering if anyone can explain the following > notations found in the VR > series. Hi Len, The Plympton VR is a little eccentric. Certain records added by Lewis Bradford, town clerk from 1812 to 1851 are found between those half-moon looking symbols. Bradford sometimes added information to earlier records entered by earlier town clerks, and he sometimes added earlier information to entries he made himself. These are indicated by the odd little half-moons. So the name Ichabod seems to have been entered by Bradford at a much later date than Ichabod's birth, whenever that may have been. The reference back to Abiah is simply what is done rather than repeating all the family background each time a sibling is entered--in other words, what applies to Abiah as to parents, etc. also applies to Ichabod--it doesn't mean they share a birthdate. Incidentally, the Genferret likes to sprinkle replies with bits of esoterica in hopes of drawing people's attention away from the fact that the Genferret is really only a weasel. The name Ichabod was often reserved for posthumous sons--that is, sons born after the death of the father. This was not always true, naturally. It generally is not true whenever that particular fact might be useful. This is something like the use of the name Benoni for the son of a woman who died in childbirth. Abiah is a biblical name, and as is so often the case, the Bible can here be used to argue whatever one chooses. In 1 Samuel, chap. 8 verse 1, Abiah is one of two sons of Samuel who became "judges over Israel." However, in 1 Chronicles, chap 2 verse24, Abiah is Hezron's wife, who, interestingly enough bore a son to Hezron after Hezron's death, and who was named Ashur, not Ichabod. The Genferret believes the name is another of those gender non-specific names our irritating ancestors used now and then. The Genferret is running out of time before being put back into his cage, but will look further for info. on Ichabod later. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com

Kudos to Valeria for taking the initiative with the Cooke Society and putting out some feelers. I hope all you Cooke descendants will show your support and contact her. Gini's idea about the Hopkins descendants getting together for dinner at the next Congress of the Mayflower Society got me thinking - the next Congress is in Sept 2005 in Plymouth and since there are so many members in town for the Congress, this is the time when most family societies hold their meetings. If anyone is interested in helping to form a society, why not do the preliminary work as Valeria is doing, get a few people together, let our list know and put some blurbs in the journals (MD, MQ) to find out how much interest there is and if you DO get enough interest, you will then have others to help you plan a meeting or dinner for those descendants in 2005. This gives you lots of time to think about what needs to be done and advertise. If just one descendant from this list acted as a contact for their Mayflower family - that's all it would be initially, just put out some queries - who knows? By Sept. 2005 perhaps we could have all the families represented with societies and the meeting held in Plymouth could be their charter meeting... Brown, Chilton, Hopkins, More, Mullins, Priest, Samson, Standish and Tilly are left (I suppose some would say Chilton is covered under Winslow, and Mullins & Tilley under Alden and Howland). If anyone is interested in being a family contact and needs a little help to get the ball rolling, let me know privately and I'll do whatever I can. Susan E. Roser www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/161.3.1.1.2.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Vic, I don't want you to spend much time on this, but it would be nice to see these articles. I can accept an attachment on Adobe Acrobat. I'm still having difficulty emailing you. Please email me and then I'll have your properly typed address. LBerger46@aol.com

Hi! It looks like I started something, with my innocent question! Right off the bat, I would like to say that the many Mayflower Descendants whom I have had the pleasure of meeting, both in my state society and the General Society, are the least snobby or snooty of any people I know. They are friendly, interesting and fun. Obviously, interested in history , the foundation of our country, and the very important roles our ancestors played! This particular period of history is being brushed aside in today's educational world, so if we don't care about it, who will? The Mayflower Society is doing an excellent job, and I encourage anyone who is eligible to join. I also joined the Gov. Bradford Family Compact Society and am sorry they are not more active. (Their annual meetings are held in Plymouth during the General Society meetings there. Other years they meet there anyway, even when the General Society is meeting elsewhere.) At this time I'm head of another society which is keeping me very occupied, but perhaps at the next General Society meeting, the Hopkins descendants could at least get together for dinner. I'll be happy to help. Gini Patterson gini1223@comcast.net

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/161.3.1.1.2.1.1 Message Board Post: Hi again, It is informative-- I believe that one is the "con" arguement against Abel being related to Peregrine. I think you might have to purchase a copy of it unless your library happens to keep that particular periodical in stock. I'll look for the other one a bit later on. If I have them, I could also scan them and send them to you or email them as Adobe Acrobat files. Try doing my email without the spaces and substituting the @ symbol for AT. I was trying to minimize the email spam search machines out there looking for email addresses. So try sending to "vic AT psu-xa.org" no spaces, substituting the @ symbol for AT. --Vic www.ciurlionis.net/varis

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: White Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/161.3.1.1.2.1 Message Board Post: Vic, I'll check out the article you mentioned. Sounds interesting. By the way...the email I sent you was returned. Thanks again for responding. Linda

What is this Cooke Family Genealogy Book, and where can I get one? Sorry I haven't been paying attention :-/ Nicole

Susan Masse: If one becomes too academically challenged on contemplating GSMD membership, think of the great snob appeal. Not to generate another great debate here, but our Mayflower families are the folk who made this great nation what it is today, the most treasured residence on earth. The Mayflower Compact was, after all, the genesis for "My Country tis of Thee". Regards, Jim Crippen ----- Original Message ----- From: Susan Masse <smasse@wvi.com> Date: Monday, February 10, 2003 7:23 pm Subject: Re: [MFLR] William BRADFORD > > >and- > >Is there any interest in a STEPHEN HOPKINS Family Society? > >Gini Patterson > >gini1223@comcast.net > > Hi, > I've been lurking. I recently found out through another researcher > that I > am a Hopkins descendant. So I have a question: > (and please don't take this as mean-spirited, or anything like > that, > because I really do want to know) > > Why go through the process and join the Society? I don't have any > children, > and only one cousin from that side of the family (who doesn't seem > to > interested in any of the genealogy stuff). > > Thanks > > Sue > > > ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== > Check out the Mayflower FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)page at > http://www.macatawa.org/~crich/mayfaq.htm . > >

Can anyone who is researching the White family tell me if you have an Eber White, b. circa 1800? I do not have much on my White line, but according to another researcher (from James N. Arnold's Vital Records, Pg. 34, Scituate, RI.) Eber Wight and Betsey [Unknown] had son Richmond Wight b. 28 Aug 1825. The LDS site says they also had "Devilla" and "Fitts" but they don't give any source for that info. Richmond married Anne Paine Eldredge, daughter of Samuel A. Eldredge and Tabitha Eldred. Later generations spelled the name WHITE instead of WIGHT. Is WIGHT just an alternate spelling? In research online, it appears that the Eldredge line is from William of Yarmouth and in looking at Yarmouth records, I found Peregrine White. Any connections? Thanks, Judy

Charlie, I suggest you invest by buying the silver book volume 12 if you want to join the Mayflower Society based on Cooke lineage, based on Society accepted info. It definitely has 1. Francis Cooke m. Hester Mahieu 2. Mary Cooke m. John Tomson 3. Hester Tomson m. William Reed 4. Sarah Reed m. Hezekiah King 5. Mary King m. Henry Woodward 6. Eunice Woodward That book alone, with dates and pages, should satisfy a Mayflower Society application from Francis the Pilgrim down to Eunice Woodward...but not her husband. After that, the burden of proof is on you. Good luck. Marty Irons ------------------------------------------- A possible remote COOKE cousin... I'm having trouble with proof on one generation myself (not your immediate line). I'm 99% convinced it's accurate...I knew my grandmother, who knew her grandmother, who certainly should have known who were her parents...but...that's not good enough for the Mayflower Society. They want solid proof so that mistakes are not carried forward to future generations. I concur strongly with that concept. ------------------------------------------- Past lineage IS...we can not change it, and we don't want to pass on inaccurate lineage information to the future. There's too much of that in old genealogies, World Family Tree, and other internet info. Don't trust them. Treat them merely as clues, and research to prove them wrong, as many will be. I could tell Broderbund Co. that you were my GGM and they would slap it on a CD and sell it in the World Family Tree series, and others would believe it. ------------------------------------------- Broderbund Co. verifies nothing!!! How could they possibly verify millions of ancestries? Impossible. Therefore...look at anything on World Family Tree CD's as nothing more than a clue...not proof until proven via RELIABLE sources. I'm not knocking Broderbund Co....I'm just saying that it's >impossible< for Broderbund to economically verify all input, so they just slap it on a CD-ROM, and the burden of proof is on you, the user. If the person who sent info to Broderbund was 100% accurate..WONDERFUL!!! But if they were NOT accurate??? 50/50. Either they were accurate or they were not accurate...at each generation. 50/50.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/200 Message Board Post: An idea has scratched the surface on the Mayflower mailing list about a society for the descendants of Francis Cooke. It seems there is not a society as of yet for his descendants. If anyone is interested please contact me off line and we will see how many are interested and if the response is good we will see where to go from there. Also let me know if you would be willing to help in this adventure. Thank you, Valeria Member of the Mayflower Society under Francis Cooke General # 69,119

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/199 Message Board Post: Perhaps it should be noted that both the MF5 Volume 12, published in 1999 and the 2000 Mayflower Families in Progress for Francis Cooke call into question the identity of the Sarah Reed who married Hezekiah King.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: searl white pittenger Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/161.3.1.1.2 Message Board Post: Linda-- I forgot to ask... Have you seen the articles on Abel White? One is, "Abel White of Kentucky, Unrecorded Son of Nicholas and Sarah (King) White of Norton, MA?" (New England Historical and Genealogical Register, JULY, 1994 - VOL. CXLVIII at http://home.earthlink.net/~genbooks/nehgr.html) At the moment I've forgotten the other, but they present cases on each side of the Abel White issue. The one in favor offers the lineage and the logic for his connection. At the heart of it is whether or not Abel White was in fact and unrecorded or otherwise illegitimate son of Nicholas, connecting him to Peregrine. Unfortunately, I can't locate the other just at the moment. --Vic

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: searl white pittenger Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/an/FO.2ADI/161.3.1.1.1 Message Board Post: I'm afraid we have joined at this point. Vic