Nicole: In the Mayflower Descendant, 3:97, George Bowman shows that Josiah could not, as some have claimed, been a son of MF passenger Francis Cooke, because no court would allow a son to sit on the jury in a case where his father was plaintiff, and Josiah sat on a jury on a case involving Francis Cooke of the MF. I descend from Deborah Hopkins and Josiah Cooke through their dau Deborah who m. Moses Godfrey. Christine Chirokas -----Original Message----- From: Jetrbabe2@aol.com [mailto:Jetrbabe2@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:44 PM To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MFLR] Francis Cooke and offspring. I have always been at a loss to figure this out, and I haven't really gotten to it, so I apologize if this is a terribly stupid question. In my lineage, I have one Josiah Cooke, that was born 1645 in Plymouth, MA, wed to Deborah Hopkins (whom I have no information about). Is this person related to Francis Cooke, and if so, how? Please help. I look forward to hearing from everyone, and againI apologize if this is a terribly dumb question. Nicole R ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== Check out the Mayflower FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)page at http://www.macatawa.org/~crich/mayfaq.htm .

Nicole asked: >So my question is just this: if he cannot be of the >Mayflower, how did he get here? Where did he come >from? Hmmm... _________ For many of our ancestors we do not know by what means they came to NE nor their origins. There were many, many ships which came to New England after the Mayflower (1620), Fortune (1621) and Anne & Little James (1623). We pretty well know the passengers from these, mainly from the 1623 land division in which those who received land were classified under the ship in which they came. Records are not clear on other ships. There was another Mayflower in 1629 to Salem which brought settlers for the Bay and Plymouth - they have been identified. The Talbot in 1629 brought 35 for Plymouth - none of whom have been identified. The Handmaid in 1630 to Plymouth brought 60 persons, mostly from Leyden - again, I don't believe any of these have been positively identified. Just open up Drake's Founders of New England and you will find countless passenger lists between 1631-1635. Since Josias Cooke appears to have been in Plymouth by 1633, and he is not listed in the (very) few pre 1633 lists by Drake, he either came by an unknown ship or - likely one of those listed above where at least 95 persons came to Plymouth by 1630 but have not been identified. Susan E. Roser www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html

Hi, we are working on some dialog that will make it easy to get on the Francis Cooke Chat, just bear with us a little while longer. The people who do the service staff, are unbelievably friendly. They can help you. And are patient. Hopefully soon, but these people are strictly volunteer and are doing it from the kindness of there heart. Sincerely, Scott Mckay

I was sent text from an unknown source concerning a possible ancestor: William Eldridge of Yarmouth, MA. Son Samuel was born at Yarmouth about 1655, and married Keziah Taylor. Their children are listed as "...born at Yarmouth (p. 24, "Mayflower Descendants," vol. 10) Does anyone have anything on Keziah Taylor's line? Thanks! Judy

If you are using MSN and you are having problems receiving mail from your Rootsweb mailing lists let them know. I have not been able to get any thing from any of my lists since the 17th of this month. I am not happy. Bob & Nancy Wordell Searchin' for a past Ô¿Ô Surnames: Wordell, Wodell, Taber, Tabor, Hunt, Watters, Fredling, Heinecke, Wells, Ballmer

In a message dated 02/23/2003 11:16:30 AM Eastern Standard Time, Jetrbabe2@aol.com writes: > If we have determined that Josiah and his father Josias cannot be related to > Francis, then where did they come from? A sketch on Josias Cooke is found in Anderson's "The Great Migration Begins". I have the CD. If you don't have access I can send you the sketch. Sue ===================================================== Proud Member of Golden Gates Genealogy Forum on AOL Try the GENTREK Chat on AOL, Monday nights, 8pm -10pm EST in <A HREF="aol://2719:3-241-Golden%20Gates">Golden Gates</A> chatroom or visit them on the web at: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~gentrek/GENTREK.html

Can someone please help me. I have re subscribed to all my lists using the rootsweb mailing list page. I did not get any confirmation nor am I getting mail from the lists. What can I do? Is rootsweb down? Is Ancestry having a problem? Please answer me directly because I am not getting any mail from my lists. Bob & Nancy Wordell Searchin' for a past Ô¿Ô Surnames: Wordell, Wodell, Taber, Tabor, Hunt, Watters, Fredling, Heinecke, Wells, Ballmer ----- Original Message ----- From: specs7 To: Rhode Island GENWEB ; specs7 Sent: Friday, February 21, 2003 7:50 AM Subject: Re: No email I'm not sure what the problem is but have not received e-mail from any of my rootsweb lists. The last email I got from rootsweb was on the 17th. I am getting other email. The only way I know that someone answered my first message is by checking the archives at rootsweb Bob & Nancy Wordell Searchin' for a past Ô¿Ô Surnames: Wordell, Wodell, Taber, Tabor, Hunt, Watters, Fredling, Heinecke, Wells, Ballmer ----- Original Message ----- From: specs7 To: Rhode Island GENWEB Sent: Thursday, February 20, 2003 7:56 AM Subject: No email Is the list down or am I having a problem Bob & Nancy Wordell Searchin' for a past Ô¿Ô Surnames: Wordell, Wodell, Taber, Tabor, Hunt, Watters, Fredling, Heinecke, Wells, Ballmer

Josias may have come one one of the many ships that came over after the Mayflower on a ship that was part of the Winthrop Fleet. Some of those ships did not make or have surviving a passenger list. I checked Hotten's book as well as the Winthrop Fleet book and there was no Josias or Joshia listed in either of these books. Josias is listed in Dictionary of the Heads of New England Familes as a yeoman with a short splurb about him, but no mention as to his origin or on what ship he arrived. Most of the people listed in this book also do not state on what ship they arrived unless they were Mayflower passengers. It did say he had a will that left things to specific people, but no mention of Francis, which everyone has said he is not related, which is true according Roser's books which lists some of his children who married into the Hopkins' family and the first mention of this name in the Cooke silver book is as a son of Jacob which is clearly after the time period you are interested in. From these limited sources, there is nothing to indicate his parentage or where he came from. However, if he was born before 1620, then he probably came from England or Leiden, Holland, but if he was born after 1620, then he might have been born here. As I have no interest in the Cooke surname, yet, all I did was search in some of my personal references that I have in my own library. Sorry I couldn't be of more help, but keep on searching, someday you may find that kernel that will blossom into a full fledge family! Christie Trapp

On Sun, 23 Feb 2003 11:15:40 -0500 Jetrbabe2@aol.com writes: > Josias was born in England 1610 It seems reasonable to assume that he was born in England. The year of his birth I assume to be about 1610, as in his will, dated 22-Sep-1673, he called himself "Josias Cooke senior aged about 63 years" (Plymouth Colony Probate Records 3:1:90, abstracted in MD 15 [1913]:34). > Was there another ship that I am not aware of that came between the > Mayflower and 1645? That depends on how many of the ships to New England you personally know about between the Fortune in 1621 and the year 1645. > if he cannot be of the Mayflower, how did he get here? I assume that he came about 1633, if he is the Josias Cooke who, on 24-Mar-1633/4, was fined 6s. 8d. for an altercation with Edward Doty (PCR 1:26). I am confident he was the Josias Cooke who was admitted freeman at Plymouth on 03-Jan-1636/7 (PCR 1:48). Dale H. Cook USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html

Thanks, Dianne. To my query about how to find out ISBN numbers, you wrote: <<Use Google......a google search for "never before in history" isbn brought up several pages.....>> I appreciate the ISBN advice from you and others because of seeking a couple of out-of-print books that are relevant to the family history that I undertook in a moment of madness and now find a huge, albeit fascinating, job. Cheers, Mignon

I thank everyone for the time that they took to reply to my message. Now here is the next question that I put forth. Everyone has seen the list of Mayflower passengers. If we have determined that Josiah and his father Josias cannot be related to Francis, then where did they come from? Josias was born in England 1610, but died in Eastham, MA in 1673. His son Josiah was born 1645 in Plymouth. Was there another ship that I am not aware of that came between the Mayflower and 1645? So my question is just this: if he cannot be of the Mayflower, how did he get here? Where did he come from? Hmmm... Nicole

In a message dated 2/23/03 8:17:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, MABCam@aol.com writes: << Is there an Internet way to find out ISBN numbers for books? >> Mignon ~ Use Google......a google search for "never before in history" isbn brought up several pages..... Never Before in History: America's Inspired Birth by Gary Amos, Richard Gardiner Haughton Pub Co; ISBN: 0914513516; (July 15, 1998) Dianne

Hi Christie - There is no date or place mentioned for this marriage in Vol. 18:3, p 30. Joan On Saturday, February 22, 2003, at 11:31 PM, ChristieTrapp@aol.com wrote: > A fellow researcher sent me some information which appeared on page 30 > in > Volume 18:3 of Richard Warren. > > I am interested in learning what this volumes says about the marriage > between > Barnabas Ford and Hannah Sprague. I would like date and location if > provided.

Cathy Boyle & Genferret -- "KJV" -- King James Version -- of course! Somehow I just didn't associate it with letters that sounded like a radio station. With the book reference for "Never Before in History," the Genferret wrote: <<Courtesy of the Library of Congress (www.loc.gov) and the American taxpayer...>> Before he scurries back to his nest for a winter's nap, could Mustela genealogiae please answer an off-topic question? Is there an Internet way to find out ISBN numbers for books? Thank you again, kind MFLR-ers, Mignon Cameron

You can use the Library of Congress's site to find a gazillion things, one of which is the ISBN/LCCN/ISSN number for a book. Their main site is: www.loc.gov and their search instructions are at: http://catalog.loc.gov/help/number.htm One of the best uses of our tax dollars is this site! Cheers, Bobbie ----- Original Message ----- From: <MABCam@aol.com> To: <MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com> Sent: Sunday, February 23, 2003 7:16 AM Subject: [MFLR] KJV query et al (was NE nomenclature) > Cathy Boyle & Genferret -- > > "KJV" -- King James Version -- of course! Somehow I just didn't associate it > with letters that sounded like a radio station. > > With the book reference for "Never Before in History," the Genferret wrote: > > <<Courtesy of the Library of Congress (www.loc.gov) and > the American taxpayer...>> > > Before he scurries back to his nest for a winter's nap, could Mustela > genealogiae please answer an off-topic question? > > Is there an Internet way to find out ISBN numbers for books? > > Thank you again, kind MFLR-ers, > > Mignon Cameron > > > ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== > Check out the web page of the General Society of Mayflower Descendants at http://www.mayflower.org/

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/205 Message Board Post: In a MAYFLOWER-L list discussion about New Engand nomenclature, replying to a query from me, the Genferret (Mustela genealogiae) wrote the following about biblical names, which I thought would interest readers of this bulletin board: <<It has been said by people who are paid to know these things that the early Plymouth colonists also tended to use biblical names which corresponded to the social status of the family--for instance, names of biblical kings would not be used by people of lower social status. Names were said to have been chosen for the moral qualities asociated with the biblical figure--humilty, devotion, faith, etc., the more "modest" sorts of qualities one would expect to be valued in Plymouth Colony. Of course previous use in the family tended to be of greatest importance, but when the biblical names were first being used these other factors seem to have had weight.>> Thank you again, Genferret. Did the two naming customs merge? Might the granddaughter, e.g., of a woman named "Perseverance" have been given the same name because it had been her grandmother's? If so, I imagine one could search, say, for all the Perseverances when trying to locate a forebear. Mignon Cameron

--- Jetrbabe2@aol.com wrote: > In my lineage, I have one Josiah Cooke, that was > born 1645 in Plymouth, MA, wed to Deborah Hopkins > (whom I have no information about). Is this person > related to Francis Cooke, and if so, how? Please > help. I look forward to hearing from everyone, and > againI apologize if this is a terribly dumb > question. This is by no means a dumb question, and Dale Cook, who apparently never sleeps, has answered it. [Also see MD 3:97 for Bowman's seemingly airtight case that Josiah was not the son of Francis.] However, while this is certainly not a dumb question, it reminds the Genferret of what some might think of as the dumbest genealogical proof evere offered. The Genferret, however, takes a broader and more elevated view, and sees this proof as in the noblest tradition of America, the freedom to believe according to one's own light, no matter how feeble and flickering that light might be. From Annie Anoux Haxtun,_Signers of the Mayflower Compact_ (rpt. Genealogical Publishing, 1998) "Historians differ in opinion as to the children of Franscis Cooke, the Pilgrim. Granting this, I must, from my own judgment, as I peruse the records, assimilate convictions and search for the truth in all directions; take Josias, not only as a son, but a strong power in the family, inheriting the qualities of the Pilgrim, prosperous, and of good repute. Savage does not allow us Josias, and record-seekers love to pin their faith on him; still, he would be only human to occasionally pass by the possibilities from which facts grow. The argument now is founded not upon what was said, but what was not. Certainty is self-evident, requires no assertion, so it seems to me it was not necessary to mention Josias as a son." p. 54 So Annie Anoux Haxton, having exalted herself as a seeker of truth, apparently having taken Josias in holy matrimony, and trashing Savage, goes on to posit the proposition that IF THERE ARE NO RECORDS TO THE CONTRARY, WE CAN BELIEVE WHATEVER WE BLOODY WELL WANT!!! The Genferret reveres Ms Haxtun as a model for all freedom loving genealogists. __________________________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Tax Center - forms, calculators, tips, more http://taxes.yahoo.com/

A fellow researcher sent me some information which appeared on page 30 in Volume 18:3 of Richard Warren. I am interested in learning what this volumes says about the marriage between Barnabas Ford and Hannah Sprague. I would like date and location if provided. Thanks in advance for the lookup. Christie Trapp

On Sat, 22 Feb 2003 23:44:00 -0500 Jetrbabe2@aol.com writes: > In my lineage, I have one Josiah Cooke, that was born 1645 in > Plymouth, MA, wed to Deborah Hopkins (whom I have no information > about). Is this person related to Francis Cooke, and if so, how? Josiah COOKE, b. prob. Eastham or Plymouth ca. 1645, m. Eastham 27-Jul-1668 Deborah HOPKINS (Giles, Stephen). This Josiah was not a descendant of Francis, but was the son of Josiah and Elizabeth (Ring) Deane) COOKE of Eastham. See MF6 Hopkins. Dale H. Cook USGenWeb Plymouth County MA Towns http://www.rootsweb.com/~macbrock/sites.html

I don't have the Cooke lineage in my database since I'm not a Francis Cooke descendant, but I can tell you that Deborah Hopkins was a granddaughter of Stephen Hopkins through his son Giles and Giles' wife Catherine Wheldon; Catherine was the daughter of Gabriel Wheldon. Karen Sullivan Visit Alden Kindred of America at http://www.alden.org/ -----Original Message----- From: Jetrbabe2@aol.com [mailto:Jetrbabe2@aol.com] Sent: Saturday, February 22, 2003 11:44 PM To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com Subject: [MFLR] Francis Cooke and offspring. I have always been at a loss to figure this out, and I haven't really gotten to it, so I apologize if this is a terribly stupid question. In my lineage, I have one Josiah Cooke, that was born 1645 in Plymouth, MA, wed to Deborah Hopkins (whom I have no information about). Is this person related to Francis Cooke, and if so, how? Please help. I look forward to hearing from everyone, and againI apologize if this is a terribly dumb question. Nicole R ==== MAYFLOWER Mailing List ==== Check out the Mayflower FAQ (Frequently Asked Questions)page at http://www.macatawa.org/~crich/mayfaq.htm .