Hello All - I'd like to take a moment to thank all who helped me with my CHURCH question about a month ago. I'm leaving the list, but wanted to be very sure you all knew I'm grateful for your help. Keep well -- Terri in WA

Yes, Scott, I am curious also. I don't recall that you ever applied. Relatively yours, Muriel Curtis Cushing, Florida State Historian ----- Original Message ----- From: "Debi" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Thursday, September 28, 2006 10:08 PM Subject: Re: [MFLR] Joining a state Mayflower Society > Out of curiosity, why would the Florida Society not let you join? > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]]On Behalf Of > [email protected] > Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 3:13 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: [MFLR] Joining a state Mayflower Society > > > Hi, I am a Lifetime time member of the Michigan Mayflower Society. I > moved > to Florida, and tried to get my membership transferred to Florida. I think > the > Michigan Society would have let me transfer, however the Florida Society > would not let me transfer. But I am still welcome as a guest to all > Florida > Mayflower meetings. > Originally I was a member of the Iowa Mayflower Society. The state where > I > was born. But later transferred my membership to Michigan. > I know that some of my relatives are members of various state Mayflower > societies, in which they do not reside. > I have been a member for 34 years. A lot of requirements have changed, > since > I have been a member. > Franciscookesociety.org > Scott McKay > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In a message dated 9/27/2006 11:34:02 PM Eastern Daylight Time, [email protected] writes: 1-- James Chilton (1563-1620) Susanna Furner (____-1620/1) 2-- John Winslow (1597-1674) Mary Chilton (1607-1679) 3-- Susanna Winslow (1627/30-1685) Robert Latham (1623-1688/9) I share these ancestors and have some data that is different Susanna Furner, b. c1564, d. 21 Jan 1621 Susanne Winslow, b. 1625/1634, d. bef 3 Oct 1683 Has Susann Furner been confirmed as James Chilton's wife? Ref.-"Mayflower Families Through Five Generations" Best regards, Hugh

pLEASE read my post for HOWLAND that I sent earlier today. In it I said I have books with Howland ancestry in it. If you deleted it, let me know, and I will resend message (I saved it). please address subject line to Darlene, ok? hoping to help.

Hi List, These are my Chilton lines that I'm researching. To save space per line I'm giving only brief dates and omitting name prefixes such as Deacon, Capt., etc and places. If you also follow these lines I will be glad to provide any further details that I may have. If I have an incorrect date or if you can provide a missing date or missing name or if you have any corrections on family lines I'd like to hear from you. 1-- James Chilton (1563-1620) Susanna Furner (____-1620/1) 2-- John Winslow (1597-1674) Mary Chilton (1607-1679) 3-- Susanna Winslow (1627/30-1685) Robert Latham (1623-1688/9) 4-- Hannah Latham (____-1725) Joseph Washburn (1653-1733) 5-- Ephraim Washburn (____-1755) Mary Polen/Pollard (1706-1784) 6-- Stephen Washburn (1736-____) Hannah Norris (1737-____) 7-- Hosea Washburn (1765-1817) Hannah Doty (1767-1864) 8-- Hosea Washburn (1796-1883) Hannah Maxim (1801-1863) 9-- Alden F Washburn (1820-1888) Judith L Jones (1823-1887) 10--Edward Jones Washburn (1861-1914) Alice Eldora Williams (1867-1950) 11--Evangeline Estelle Washburn (1895-1981) Vivian Daniel Sylvester (1893-1968) 12--Living Sylvester (1917-) Living Merry (1924-) 13--David Wayne Sylvester (1951-) Living (1955-) 14--Living Sylvester (1991-) James Chilton and Susanna Furner along with their daughter Mary Chilton arrived on the Mayflower in 1620 John Winslow arrived on the Fortune in 1621. 1-- James Chilton (1563-1620) Susanna Furner (____-1620/1) 2-- John Winslow (1597-1674) Mary Chilton (1607-1679) 3-- Robert Latham (1623-1688/9) Susanna Winslow (1627/30-1685) 4-- Hannah Latham (____-1725) Joseph Washburn (1653-1733) 5-- Ephraim Washburn (____-1755) Mary Polen/Pollard (1706-1784) 6-- Lydia Washburn (1728-____) Samuel Norris (1728-1795) 7-- Jemima Norris (1770-____) Giddings Lane (1770-1836) 8-- Fannie Lane (1801-1829) Edward Jones (1797-1884) 9-- Judith L Jones (1823-1887) Alden F Washburn (1820-1888) 10--Edward Jones Washburn (1861-1914) Alice Eldora Williams (1867-1950) 11--Evangeline Estelle Washburn (1895-1981) Vivian Daniel Sylvester (1893-1968) 12--Living Sylvester (1917-) Living Merry (1924-) 13--David Wayne Sylvester (1951-) Living (1955-) 14--Living Sylvester (1991-) David Sylvester 28 North Searsport Road Searsport, Maine 04974 Discuss our First Ships roots at http://www.feliixplace.com/genealogylists/firstships.html

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Cooke/Fisher/Hopkins/Howland/Tilley/Warren Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/362.1.2.2.1 Message Board Post: Thank you Harlow, for quieting the waters! I never thought that bringing up a questionable line could start such a firestorm. Especially since I was questioning it myself from the beginning. Unfortunately the original post had a strategic typo or two (the 3 AM kind), was too long, and should have been more directly phrased. I won't be repeating the mistake! My mailbox is on fire... Who would a thunk it? Especially since I immediately apologized for my sins to the entire group, even going so far as to resend the post with the typo's corrected & went out of the way to thank everyone who spent valuable time seriously considering the data in the post. I have not participated in this group very much, however I have spent some time reading many of the group's interesting posts. I mean I have seen many far "dumber", "far-fetched"? inquiries posted to the group, but for some reason my post set off or pushed more that a few buttons. My sincere thanks to those of you (like yourself) who have calmly and patiently answered my questions and corrected the inaccuracies in the inquiry. I agree that Mary has lent enough of her DNA (and far more) to our (much diluted) generation and would be having quite a laugh at the thought that such a distant future generation would be making such a fuss over her . I am not going to answer any more posts under this subject heading unless someone brings up something critical to the inquiry. I do think we have more than covered (& debunked) this "mythical" Cooke/Tobey lineage. Good night all! Cheers! KT Lee

Hello. I am new to genealogy, and got a lot of information given to me through my mother, including some books. I am of "Theall/Theale" direct decent with a lot of branches and distant cousin names. I am willing to help, as eventually I will be looking for help from you all. I have a book called " MAYFLOWER FAMILIES through Five Generations" VOLUME ONE with these three names on bottom "Francis Eaton, Samuel Fuller, William White" - but there a lots of names in here. Including some Howland. Also, I have another book called " "PIONEERS OF MASSACHUSETTS" by Charles Henry Pope. In this book is some information that I can type out for you. I will give you a sample of some of what this says: ................................. "John came in the Mayflower, as servant (or steward) of Mr. John Carver. signed the Compact; took an active part in the early explorations. Settled at Plymouth. Town office; a partner in the Trading Company of the Colony; Asst. or deputy almost contunually. Prominent in the church, so that he "assisted in the imposition of hands" upon Rev. John Cotton, Jr. when he was ordained pastor 30 (6) 1669. He married Elizabeth, dau. of John Tillie. (B.) Ch. John, b. Feb 24, 1696 (S.) Desire (also named at the division of cattle in 1627; she m. John Gorum,) Hope, b. about 1630 (Gr.st); m. John Chipman), Deborah (m. 04 Jan. 1648, John Smith, Jr. of Plym.), Elizabeth (m. 13 Sept 1649 Ephraim Hicks), Ruth (m. 17 Nov. 1664, Thomas Cushman), Others named in will." I may not be very fast in responding, and I have never read these books, but we have a family connection to Mayflower, but must be missing some generations. (via Samuel Fuller, Eaton and Wheaton possibly). Hope this helps a bit

Hi, I am a Lifetime time member of the Michigan Mayflower Society. I moved to Florida, and tried to get my membership transferred to Florida. I think the Michigan Society would have let me transfer, however the Florida Society would not let me transfer. But I am still welcome as a guest to all Florida Mayflower meetings. Originally I was a member of the Iowa Mayflower Society. The state where I was born. But later transferred my membership to Michigan. I know that some of my relatives are members of various state Mayflower societies, in which they do not reside. I have been a member for 34 years. A lot of requirements have changed, since I have been a member. Franciscookesociety.org Scott McKay

At 01:34 PM 9/27/2006, Linda (Warrick) Chesson wrote: >I have volumes 1,2 and 3 of the Mayflower Families Through Five Generations >(the Silver Books) and have not heard of a volume which covers John Howland. >Is there one? If so, which Volume number might it be? A list of all in-print Silver Books and Pink Booklets, as well as associated books, can always be found at: http://www.mayflower.org/book.htm >Also, I *had heard* at one time that the Silver Books had been "replaced" as >a good reference by some other set. Is this so? Not as far as I know. Dale H. Cook; Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml

In a message dated 9/27/2006 10:56:42 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Hello All, Please excuse me for this (very probably) previously addressed question. I have volumes 1,2 and 3 of the Mayflower Families Through Five Generations (the Silver Books) and have not heard of a volume which covers John Howland. Is there one? If so, which Volume number might it be? Also, I *had heard* at one time that the Silver Books had been "replaced" as a good reference by some other set. Is this so? If so, which books was this a reference to? I have been eagerly awaiting the book by Elizabeth Pearson White on John Howland through Hope (my Howland line). Does *anyone* have a clue when that one will be out? Thank you in advance to anyone who can answer these questions. Regards, Linda (Warrick) Chesson Linda: There are at least 22 volumes of the "silver" books at this point in time, not including the two privately printed books on Howland and the various "pink" books that are referred to as "in progress" volumes which will later be published as a "silver" book. The reason the "pink" books are published is to give people information about what has been collected to date. They are still researching and proving the lines and when the Society feels that they have "proof beyond a reasonable doubt" so to speak they will then publish it as the definitive answer to the question of that line for five generations. There are also several other versions that have different colored covers for those people they have worked on that have strong and close ties to a Mayflower passenger but they were not Mayflower passengers themselves. Volumes 1-3 have been updated and are no longer in print. The current volumes in print and available start at volume 4. Some of the volumes have been revised themselves and are now in newer versions. I have a complete set myself - except for volume 3, which I haven't been able to get. Even those of us who have purchased some of the volumes in the set need to recheck the Mayflower website and order a newer version because the information in the older versions may have been changed, corrected, or deleted from the version we may have in our possession. You can go to _www.Mayflower.org_ (http://www.Mayflower.org) Then click on publications. You will see a listing, with prices, of the volumes they have for sale. It will show you the version and the year of publication. So if you have an older version, you might want to consider purchasing the newer, updated version to see where the changes are in your particular family line. Christie Trapp

Hello All, Please excuse me for this (very probably) previously addressed question. I have volumes 1,2 and 3 of the Mayflower Families Through Five Generations (the Silver Books) and have not heard of a volume which covers John Howland. Is there one? If so, which Volume number might it be? Also, I *had heard* at one time that the Silver Books had been "replaced" as a good reference by some other set. Is this so? If so, which books was this a reference to? I have been eagerly awaiting the book by Elizabeth Pearson White on John Howland through Hope (my Howland line). Does *anyone* have a clue when that one will be out? Thank you in advance to anyone who can answer these questions. Regards, Linda (Warrick) Chesson

The original conversation to the Mayflower Message Board, not the mailing list, was not that the Mayflower Society requires an invitation, but that the Jamestown Society requires an invitation. I found this out in 2005, and this may have changed. But the New York Society of Mayflower Descendants does *not* require an invitation. I'd be surprised if any state societies do that anymore. I know it gets to be confusing when responses go to the list rather than the board. But since message board queries are gatewayed to the mailing list, it helps to respond to the board by using the links that are included in the list messages. Then everyone gets to see them, including the original poster. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Linda Smith Sent: Wednesday, September 27, 2006 10:56 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MFLR] Help with Cooke descent line. TN used to be "invitation only", meaning that you had to have two letters of recommendation from current members in order for them to even look at your application. When I joined, I didn't know any members to ask, so I asked the historian to connect me with someone who would comply and write the recommendations, which they accordingly did. It seemed silly, since they could hardly really recommend someone they didn't even know. I don't think they do that anymore. The reason I am telling you this is that you can probably do the same where you are. Don't give up if you have good lineage. Some of the state societies are very difficult, but that is slowly changing, I think. All the Mayflower Society really wants is good documentation and a sure line. It is not in their best interest to turn people away who have a legitimate claim to the lineage. They know that. I have found the people in Plymouth to be amazingly knowledgeable and extremely helpful. Also, it is my understanding, (and correct me, you folks in the know, if I am wrong) that you can actually join through any state society you wish; you are not limited to your state of residence. Linda in TN ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [MFLR] Help with Cooke descent line. > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Surnames: Cooke/Fisher/Hopkins/Howland/Tilley/Warren > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/362.2.1 > > Message Board Post: > > Thank you Karen, I had no idea. Invitation only? I do believe my > lineage to Hopkins is intact (unlike the Cooke lineage) but perhaps I should forget the Jamestown group then? After I go through my data again I will post but if my memory serves me well I believe I have more than Hopkins connecting our family to Jamestown. Among the grandfather's somewhere are the Lord de la Warr's: Thomas West (1577-1602) (please don't quote me on these dates yet!); his son Governor Francis West (1590-1634); his son Francis II West (1605-1696). I believe the Gov Francis one was instrumental at Jamestown but again don't quote me yet! > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 144 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

>Do you have any information on children of Mary Baker/Edward Sarle ... did >anyone mention anything that might help me in my quest for proof of Benoni's >marriage. The couple appears to have lived in Scituate, RI ... Benoni passing >intestate in 1822. They were the parents of five children. > The following is from The Rhode Island Genealogical Register/RI Vital Records New Series: RIGR Jan 1980, p 186 Abstracts of Scituate Wills pgs 150-151: Division of the Estate of Benoni Sarle dec'd 17 Apr 1823, recorded 10 May 1823. To the Widow Sarah Sarle wife of the dec'd, [The heirs:] Oliver Sarle, Oris Sarle, Stephen Thornton and Celinda his wife, Henry Waterman and Mary his wife. RIGR Vol8#2, p124 Abstracts of Cranston Wills Sarle, Edward, of Cr., advanced in age. Will dated 29 April 1795, proved 10 Oct 1796, pags 201-204. Mentions: wife Martha Sarle, sons Edward Sarle who has had his portion, Joseph Sarle, Thomas Sarle who has had his portion, Silas Sarle, and Benoni Sarle. Daughters Lydia Burlinggame, Sarah Leach, Mary Leach, Rhoba Knight, and Alice Sarle. 3 grandsons: Edward Sarle, William Sarle and Orris Sarle. Witn: Stephen Knight, Ephraim Robarts, Peleg Arnold alias Bennet. RIGR Vol8#2, 127 Abstracts of Cranston Wills Sarle, Mary, of Cr, widow, somewhat advanced in years. Will dated 23 April 1804, proved 13 Oct 1804, pgs 180-182. Mentions: sons Edward, Joseph Sarle, Benoni, Silas and Thomas Sarle. Daughters Lydia Brullinggame, Mary Leach, Rhobe Knight presumably wife of son-in-law William Knight, Alice Copre, and Sarah Leach. Witn: Stephen Knight, Asahel Knight, Benjamin Robarts.

[email protected] wrote in part > Francis (MP) Cooke, bef 1583-1663 (m.Hester Mahieu, abt. 1585-1666) > Daughter, Mary Cooke, 1626?-1713 (m. Francis Tobey, 1602-1635?) > Son, Thomas Tobey, 1625-1714 (m. Martha Knott, b. 1629) > ... > Yes, I have much conflicting information in my files on the dates & > relationships surrounding Francis (MP) Cooke, Hester, and their > daughter, Mary Cooke from several different sources... > Mary's birth appears quite late compared with the one's I have for her > siblings: born about 23 years after marriage and with Hester abt age > 41 and Francis abt age 49 at the time of her birth... > You are correct that my dates for Mary as relates to a marriage to > Francis Tobey & the dates for the children do not make sense as > written. > Where does the persistent idea come from that she married a Francis > Tobey and had two children, Thomas Tobey & Ruth Tobey? You seem to refer to some communications that are not posted on this list, so perhaps your questions were answered already. Since your whole postulated Mayflower line depends on an early Cooke to Tobey connection, perhaps that should be settled first. Do you have any evidence, other than "persistent idea" that Mary Cooke, youngest daughter of Francis Cooke, could have married a Francis Tobey and had a child Thomas by 1625? The MayF 5Gen Silver book for Francis Cooke documents the early family well. Mary was certainly borne after her mother arrived in 1623, and before May 1627 Division of Land when she is first listed. Mary married in Plymouth, 26 Dec 1645 John Tompson [Plym Col Records] That she first married a Francis Tobey [who is not listed in Torrey Marriages at all, or mentioned anywhere in the Tobey genealogy [Tobey, Rufus 1905, Boston] seems absurd. The Thomas Tobey who married Martha Knott in 1650 could hardly be her son. That Mary was born to a mother of about age 41, some 9 months or more after her parents were re-united in 1623 after a separation of several years seems more plausible than postulating an earlier birth of which there is no evidence; or a first husband of whom no record seems to exist. Regards, Bob Bob & Dee Carroll. Westport, NY, on Lake Champlain Relations of Bob & Dee http://worldconnect.genealogy.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=rcarroll

TN used to be "invitation only", meaning that you had to have two letters of recommendation from current members in order for them to even look at your application. When I joined, I didn't know any members to ask, so I asked the historian to connect me with someone who would comply and write the recommendations, which they accordingly did. It seemed silly, since they could hardly really recommend someone they didn't even know. I don't think they do that anymore. The reason I am telling you this is that you can probably do the same where you are. Don't give up if you have good lineage. Some of the state societies are very difficult, but that is slowly changing, I think. All the Mayflower Society really wants is good documentation and a sure line. It is not in their best interest to turn people away who have a legitimate claim to the lineage. They know that. I have found the people in Plymouth to be amazingly knowledgeable and extremely helpful. Also, it is my understanding, (and correct me, you folks in the know, if I am wrong) that you can actually join through any state society you wish; you are not limited to your state of residence. Linda in TN ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Tuesday, September 26, 2006 10:35 PM Subject: Re: [MFLR] Help with Cooke descent line. > This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. > > Surnames: Cooke/Fisher/Hopkins/Howland/Tilley/Warren > Classification: Query > > Message Board URL: > > http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/362.2.1 > > Message Board Post: > > Thank you Karen, I had no idea. Invitation only? I do believe my lineage to Hopkins is intact (unlike the Cooke lineage) but perhaps I should forget the Jamestown group then? After I go through my data again I will post but if my memory serves me well I believe I have more than Hopkins connecting our family to Jamestown. Among the grandfather's somewhere are the Lord de la Warr's: Thomas West (1577-1602) (please don't quote me on these dates yet!); his son Governor Francis West (1590-1634); his son Francis II West (1605-1696). I believe the Gov Francis one was instrumental at Jamestown but again don't quote me yet! > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ---------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 144 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Get the free SPAMfighter here: http://www.spamfighter.com/len

My descent is from Mary Baker who married Edward Sarle. She was the daughter of Mary Earle (5th generation) and Elisha Baker per the Silver Edition of MAYFLOWER FAMILIES THROUGH FIVE GENERATIONS, Volume 12, Francis Cooke. At one time I wrote the Mayflower Society and believe that someone joined under Mary BAKER SARLE. Mary Baker and Edward SARLE had thirteen children and my descent is through their son Benoni SARLE born February 6, 1764. Unfortunately I have been unable to find the marriage of Benoni SARLE to Sarah (might possibly have been Roberts). Handed down family information in one line. This couple are buried: Searle & Waterman Lot, Historical Cemetery SC 107 Byron Randall Road 21 burials Note: 3/4 mile east of the Rte 116 in Scituate, Rhode Island Do you have any information on children of Mary Baker/Edward Sarle ... did anyone mention anything that might help me in my quest for proof of Benoni's marriage. The couple appears to have lived in Scituate, RI ... Benoni passing intestate in 1822. They were the parents of five children. Thank you for any assistance and if you would like any of the information that I've gathered, I'll be happy to share. Janet

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. I liked the old way better, when people seemed to be more serious about there linage search. People seem just to put some lineage they got from a Internet search, that is not verified. They do not try to go to the various Mayflower passenger societies. Most of these societies have a genealogist. Or someone to do a lookup. Sincerely, Scott McKay

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/362.1.1.1 Message Board Post: Its not a question of the dates being incorrect. Mary Cooke, daughter of Francis and Hester (Mahieu) Cooke, did not marry Francis Tobey. She married John Tomson 26 Dec 1645 Plymouth. John died 16 June 1696 Middleborough and Mary died 21 Mar 1714 Middleborough. Their children (12) were born in Plymouth and Barnstable. This information and the sources that document it may be found in the Picton Press publication, Mayflower Families Through Five Generations, Volume 12, Francis Cooke. There is a whole series of these books on Mayflower passengers, covering the first 5 generations, commonly called The Silver Books because of the color of their covers.

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Surnames: Chipman, Minor Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/353.1.1.1.1.1 Message Board Post: WHO WAS JAMES CHIPMAN OF BLEDSOE COUNTY, TENNESSEE? (REVISITED) The Bledsoe Co. courthouse at Pikeville, TN burned in 1908. The wills and marriages were lost, but fortunately the deeds of conveyance, court dockets, and some miscellaneous records survived. Legislative petitions for the early years of the county serve as “tax list” substitutes. Land grants by the state for property in the county are housed at the Tennessee State Library and Archives in Nashville. The first U.S. census of TN taken in 1800 is lost. Of the 1810 U.S. census, only Rutherford Co. and part of Grainger Co. remain. About half of the returns for 1820 were lost, among them Bledsoe Co. The first census for which returns are extant for all counties is 1830. [Most genealogists working with records in the southern states will sooner or later encounter a burned courthouse. Nineteenth and twentieth century losses can usually be dealt with, but when seventeenth and early eighteenth century records in the old colonial counties are lost, the results can be catastrophic. Genealogists use various kinds of records. In Great Britain, landed families may have pedigree scrolls tracing their family back to the Flood; it doesn’t work that way in the USA. Non-genealogists have difficulty comprehending the concept that ALL genealogists use logic and deduction to correctly identify people. An uncommon surname, like Chipman, helps, but the use of the same given names in generation after generation means the genealogist has to exercise care. The last general Chipman genealogy was published in 1970. Unfortunately, the author did not insist on documentation of any kind, and allowed families to submit their data in the form of a “family group sheet.” Only occasionally will one meet with a reference to an actual source in that volume. It was better than nothing, because the previous works by Alberto Lee Chipman and Richard Manning Chipman were inadequate, with limited coverage.] Delaware did not require civil registration of births, deaths, and marriages until 1913, although a few were voluntarily submitted before that date. In the 1880 Lauderdale Co., TN U.S. census, Thomas Jefferson Chipman and James Washington Chipman, two grandchildren of this James Chipman said that their father, George Chipman, had been born in DE. DE is a small state consisting of three counties; there are no records that any Chipman ever lived in NewCastle Co., but Chipmans settled in both Sussex and Kent Cos. Due to its small size, DE wasn’t the most common migration point (most Tennesseans came from VA, GA, and the Carolinas); obviously this information came from a family source, probably George Chipman himself. Census records for George Chipman (1803-1878) also variously give his birthplace as being TN or VA, but James Washington Chipman and Thomas Jefferson Chipman were the only two sons of George Chipman to survive (there was another son named Edward, who evidently died before George made his will, as no more is heard of him; George Chipman named his first two sons James and Thomas after his father, James, and his father’s brother, Thomas—wasn’t that imaginative?). The point is that the family was from DE. This seems incontrovertible, and is fully consistent with other branches of the Chipman family that migrated from DE to NC and KY. ------------------------------------------------------------ The maiden name of James Chipman’s wife Betsy (Elizabeth) is unknown; however, it appears that she married James Chipman ca. 1801, probably in DE. James Chipman signed two 1815 legislative petitions to the TN legislature recorded in Bledsoe Co.: one as “James Chiteman” in “Petitions to delay enactment of the land law during the War Between Great Britain and the United States” [e.g. War of 1812]; and one as “James Chitman” dated 21 October 1815 to re-draw the boundaries of Bledsoe Co. Both petitions are available on microfilm at TSLA in Nashville. (both the TN and NC Chipmans have some spelling variations in the records) On 14 May 1821, James Chipman purchased 74 acres “on the South Side of Sequatchie” [River] in Bledsoe Co. from Jacob Roberson for 400 dollars. On 13 April 1822, James Chipman and James Roberson donated 1 ½ acres to the Providence Baptist Church in Bledsoe Co. Of this donation, Elizabeth Parham Robnett, Bledsoe Co. historian, wrote, “When and where the first religious services were held in what is now Bledsoe County or Sequatchie Valley is probably not known. However, many of the early religious services were held at the homes of the early settlers, school houses and camp grounds. The Methodist, Baptist and Christian churches were holding services in the 1820’s. James Roberson and James Chipman deeded land in 1822 in Lot No. 11 for a ‘meeting house.’ This Baptist Church was known as Providence church. In 1831 John Dalton, a Revolutionary War veteran, was a minister at this church which was near the home of another Revolutionary War patriot, Capt. George Walker.” (“Bledsoe County, Tennessee A History”, p. 117) George Walker died in Bledsoe Co. on 12 October 1833. He had served as an officer in the Burke Co., NC militia during the RW (see his RW pension papers). On 14 October 1823, George Chipman was commissioned a lieutenant in the 21 Regiment Bledsoe Co. militia. [muster roll in possession of TSLA] The Bledsoe Co. Circuit Court Execution Docket (p. 139) records the 1824 case of “The State vs William J. Thornton and James Chapman;” the defendants were ordered to pay $14.15 to cover court costs. On 3 July 1824, The State of Tennessee granted James Chipman 60 acres in Bledsoe Co. “on the west side of Walden’s ridge.” The grant was recorded 10 January 1826, and that is the last record of James Chipman in Bledsoe Co. The 1830 U.S. census enumeration commenced on 1 June 1 1830, and the filing date was 1 August 1830; this gives an outside limit for the death of James Chipman as being between 10 January 1826 and the actual date of enumeration of Betsy Chipman’s household (see below), which fell within the two-month period. On 20 December 1825, Robert Maitland of New York City, represent by John McIver, “his attorney in fact,” sold Samuel McReynolds Jr. for $1600.00 “a certain tract of land in Bledsoe County containing two hundred acres Beginning at a corner at John Rogers thence to Richard and Mary Jones thence to James Chipmans line also one other tract in Bledsoe County containing three hundred and sixty acres adjoining the lines of John Roberson, Robert Raines, James Roberson, James Chipman, the wagon road and Richard and Mary Jones Beginning on a corner of John Robersons tract then along said line as run by Michael Rawlings thence & etc to a line in Chapmans line run by John Kelly.” This left James Chipman, after deducting his gift to the church, about 132 acres. But what happened to his land? There is no deed recording its sale. The following probably contains the solution: On 5 May 1832, Robert Maitland of New York City, represented by his “attorney in fact” James A. Whiteside, sold to Samuel McReynolds for the sum of $835.00, “a certain tract of land in Bledsoe County one thousand acres adjoining the Robert Rains tract and the tract on which Samuel Cowan and George Reed now lives and including the plantation on which Dempsey Hulsy now lives thence to the corner of Robert Shewmakes tract the other tract of fifteen acres being the same Sold by John McIver as attorney in fact for said Maitland to Jacob Roberson and by said Roberson to James Chipman and adjoining lands of James Roberson & said McReynolds.” Somehow this 15 acres of James Chipman’s land wound up in the hands of Robert Maitland again. Maitland was a land speculator based in New York. The Chipman farm may have been abandoned, the property seized by the sheriff for non-payment of tax, then auctioned off and purchased once more by Maitland. S! uch events were common. The 1830 U.S. census for Bledsoe Co., p. 283, records Betsy Chipman as follows: One male under 5, one female under 5, one female 10-15, one female 15-20, one female 20-30, one female 50-60 On the same page of that census is Washington Chipman: One male 20-30, one female under 5, one female 20-30 [Washington Chipman married Rachel (maiden name said to be “Clements,” but probably actually “Clemmons”).] William Chipman (1814-1874) married Milly Standifer about 1832/3 in Bledsoe Co. as proven by the RW pension records of Milly’s father, Benjamin Standifer. The Standifers were close neighbors of Betsy Chipman in Bledsoe Co.; Milly was born in Elbert Co., GA in 1814. In 1832 Betsy Chipman was recorded on a tax list; that was her last record in Bledsoe Co. From the 1830 census it appears Betsy Chipman was born between 1770-1780 (probably much closer to 1780). The female 20-30 in the census is probably Paulina Chipman; the female 15-20 Mary Chipman who married Harrison R. Latham (Latham was probably connected to the Birdy Latham residing in Bledsoe Co. in 1830); and the female 10-15 Delilah Chipman who had a marriage bond dated 7 December 1840 with William H. Davis in Madison Co. About 1970 my father was told that William Chipman (1814-1874) had another brother named “Fate” Chipman (b. ca. 1820) who never married; I think “Fate” was actually Frederick Chipman who divorced Mary Ann Prendergrast 21 February 1867 in Madison Co., TN (William H. Davis had stood surety on the original bond); Frederick’s age range varied from 10-15 in 1840 (when he was living with William Chipman in Madison Co.) to 19 in 1850 (when he was living with Harrison Latham in Madison Co.), to 36 in 1860 (when he was living with George Chipman in Lauderdale Co., TN). This gives Frederick a birthdate of between 1824 and 1831, and if he is the last child of James and Betsy Chipman, as I think he was, the birthdate of 1824 makes more sense. There are two Chipmans connected with these families I cannot place: William Chipman (b. ca. 1844) who served in the CSA in the Civil War and later moved to AR (he had friends in Lauderdale Co., TN); and Perlina Chipman (b. ca. 1835) who married James H. Davis 9 April 1853 in Madison Co., TN. James Chipman of Bledsoe Co. was illiterate. For this reason alone, he could not have been the merchant mentioned in the Kent Co., DE estate papers of Jonathan Emerson as having sold various items, from sacks of oats to cloth, to Emerson’s heirs, and also to have stood surety on a note. James Chipman the merchant’s entries begin in 1788, the same year that James Chipman is first recorded on a Sussex Co., DE tax list. The Sussex Co. James was born BY 1767 (although as White & Coles have pointed out, he was actually born ca. 1753), so he could not have been the son of Stephen Chipman, who was born in 1771. The 1790 U.S. census for VA is lost; the statewide 1787 tax lists have been compiled and published, but no Chipman is listed in those records. As pointed out many times, the Sussex Co., DE James Chipman had settled in that county by 1788. Land in certain sections of VA was free, in large tracts of several hundred acres per grant, and probably many people just squatted and farmed the land until it was devoid of nutrients. As mentioned on numerous occasions, the codicil of the Emerson will proved 31 July 1784 pertaining to James Chipman reads as follows: “Item I give and bequeath to James Chipman (the son of Steven Chipman Deceased) He Being an impotent Boy in one of his knees, the sum of fifty 50 pounds Cash when he Shall arrive at a lawful age viz to twenty one years part or sooner if my Trustees think best or necessary –“. This legacy was recorded on June 30th, 1792, and held in an interest bearing account, until January 1, 1800. This is how the birthdate of 1771 was derived, and inasmuch as Stephen Chipman died in 1772, I see no reason to dispute it. Stephen Chipman’s widow Agnes remarried to Isaac Moore, and evidently the couple did not arrange for the education of James Chipman and his brother Thomas, who died in 1789 at the age of twenty, who was also illiterate. “An impotent Boy in one of his knees” means that James Chipman (who was 13 at the time of the codicil) had some defect or injury to a knee; it did not mean he was a cripple, incapable of any kind of future, as obviously Emerson himself expected James to make it to 21, an age not reached until some 8 years after the codicil was written. Whatever the exact nature of the ailment, it was not life-threatening. Other than similarity of names, there is no evidence to support a contention that James son of Stephen and the James Chipman in the 1800 Sussex Co., DE census are the same person. It’s impossible. Frankly, were it not for the fact that the line has a common ancestor (Alice Freeman) with the late Diana Spencer, and a descent from five Mayflower passengers, I doubt anyone would give it a second look. This is not a difficult identification to make. We know the Bledsoe Co. family was from Delaware, we know the father’s name was James Chipman, that he was illiterate (merchants had to read and write), that there is no evidence that he had any children older than George Chipman who was born ca. 1803, or that he or any of his children had any contact of any kind with any Chipmans then in KY. The Sussex Co. James Chipman is listed in the 1800 DE census with a number of males in perfect age range for the KY Chipmans: Stephen Chipman, John C. Chipman, Perry Chipman, and James Chipman. If he is not the father of those men, their origin is a complete mystery: there is nobody else who could be their parent, and they are left with nothing. It is an absolute fact that these TN and KY Chipmans were from DE, and that their fathers were different men, both named James Chipman. That’s the way it is. My grand-aunt (by marriage) Ruby (Bohannon) Chipman, wife of my grand-uncle Jewell Chipman, had a lively interest in family and family history. Jewell Chipman was a son of James Edward (known as simply “Ed” or “Poppa”)and Allie (Oxley) Chipman, and a brother of my grandfather, Beecher Edgar Chipman. James Edward Chipman’s daughter Pauline Aquilla Chipman married Carl Davis Page, and they were the grandparents of Larry Page, co-founder of “google.” There were also Winnie and Lawcie, and all of them were intelligent people. James Edward Chipman’s wife Allie died in the 1930s due to complications stemming from an automobile accident, and it was a great blow to the family. I have a large collection of letters touching on family matters written by people who actually knew the individuals under discussion. I was fortunate to correspond with Gusta Ramsey Chipman, a daughter-in-law of James Washington Chipman (whom I mentioned above); a member of the Koonce family that James Edward Chipman’s sister Cynthia (Sinthy) married into, and who knew some of their Miller relatives. And of course, Jewell’s wife Ruby: “The new clipping you [Pauline Page] sent was quite interesting because when we attended Charley Chipman’s sisters funeral at Ripley Tenn when we were living at West Memphis we met some Drumwrights they are a part of Papa Chipmans [James Edward Chipman] family. “Papa Chipmans mother was a Miller Cynthia and the Millers at Kennett and Cardwell are his relatives also the Wilborns at Senath and Cardwell but I do not know how the Wilborns are connected.* Charley Chipmans sister married Frank Miller and she was Mollie Chipman. She still lives at Kennett. While we were at W. Memphis we went to visit Jewell [Jewell Vester Chipman, son of James Edward Chipman] cousins at Ripley and and Memphis. They are Aunt Cynthia Koons or (Coons) Children: Duprie, Gertrude? And Mrs. Cecil B. Keltner 645 Pope. (This is Lily Mae Koons)” {Letter, dated 12 October 1962, to Pauline Aquilla (Chipman) Page and Carl Davis Page.} *The Wilborns were descendants of Deborah Chipman, dau. of John and Mary (Harris) Chipman, of Guilford Co., NC [no. 107-iii in “A Chipman Genealogy]:; she was born 3 November 1787, and married Moses Wilborn. Her father, John, was a first cousin to James Chipman of Bledsoe Co., TN; John’s father Paris Chipman was a son of James and Mary (Minor) Chipman. Binky son of Bongo Sept. 26, 2006

This is a Message Board Post that is gatewayed to this mailing list. Classification: Query Message Board URL: http://boards.ancestry.com/mbexec/msg/rw/FO.2ADI/362.2.1.1 Message Board Post: I hope I didn't discourage you totally, especially since you have other connections to Jamestown. I just found it interesting that the Jamestown Society has a much tighter process for membership, that's all. I guess I decided not to pursue a membership because my only connection, as far as I know, is Stephen Hopkins and also because I live too far from Virginia to participate. Maybe the Virginia list could give you more or better information. Karen