My husband said the same thing about the clothes. They have to make these things relatively appealing for the viewers..... Had that been on one of the networks....... there would have been no vomiting in such a loud manner as was in the movie. I try to not even think about those things cause it ruins the whole ambience of the moment for me. Sort of like watching how they filmed a movie. That just takes away from the feeling of the story. Makes me sick enough just thinking about what it was like down below deck. How many people? How many days? Sea sickness and you know if you're already sick...... once one starts, well... and not to mention the daily bodily functions ....... and then the women folks and their issues. All with no privacy either. AND .... AND let us not forget.... that is where their food was stored and where they ate as well. OH as their friends, family and children lay dieing around them. I think we all need to feel very humbled by our ancestors and this year give thanks to THEM. Don't thank God for the turkey on your table that you bought at the store or your spiral cut ham you ordered and complained about how long the line was to pick it up.. or the candied yams you put to a can opener and threw on some brown sugar and marshmallows and stuck in your microwave. I hope the History Channel runs it again on Thanksgiving Day! Because that's what I am going to give thanks for. The brave souls that were so desperate for a new life that they risked their own to come to a place where they may surely die. Scared to death of whether they would even get there and when they did what would they find. Savages and wild beasts? As far as they knew these indigenous people were cannibals. I was truly moved from that movie especially the scene where they stood and watched the Mayflower leaving them. That was it for them. There last safe refuge GONE. I am truly blessed because of them. Thank you William Brewster and Isaac Allerton for your strength and courage. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 1:48 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [MFLR] First Thanksgiving At the first Thanksgiving in the"Desperate Crossing", the Indian King, was eating with some metal utensil. Looked liked a fork to me. Even had good manners. Even though they were on board for 90 days on the Mayflower there clothes looked pretty clean. Show biz. But it was done well. Scott ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I know what you mean Karen. My Winslow's are from the southern bunch in NC mid 1600's. I know they must have gone through much the same things as there northern cousins. Could any of us today have done as well as they did I am proud of my early NC and Va ancesters. I just hope they would be proud of me. Hope Winslow Stanley -------Original Message------- From: Karen Sullivan Date: 11/20/06 12:43:00 To: [email protected] Subject: [MFLR] Thoughts: The Desperate Crossing Last night I watched "Desperate Crossing" with my sister (who is like me a Mayflower descendant but hasn't gotten into the genealogy), and my husband (whose ancestors came ca. 1843 during the potato famine). They are both intelligent and familiar with history, as I hope so am I. We found ourselves gripped by the story, not necessarily the PC or historically accurate elements. But what is it all about? My sister and I felt our family connections in a way I hadn't felt before. My husband understood and identified with us. I awakened this morning thinking about it. Karen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 .

At the first Thanksgiving in the"Desperate Crossing", the Indian King, was eating with some metal utensil. Looked liked a fork to me. Even had good manners. Even though they were on board for 90 days on the Mayflower there clothes looked pretty clean. Show biz. But it was done well. Scott

This year is the 400th anniversary of the covenant of the church in Scrooby, England, which was later transplanted to Massachusetts by the Pilgrims. Today the successor congregation is still active as First Parish in Plymouth, and is a Unitarian congregation. Those who are interested may want to read more at the following URL: _http://www.uuworld.org/ideas/articles/6570.shtml?n_ (http://www.uuworld.org/ideas/articles/6570.shtml?n) Wilson DeCamp Leesburg, VA (a descendant of George Soule)

I am by no means an expert on this subject. Let me preface my comments by that. I am also very new to this... So don't beat me up too bad on this. It appears to me that everything we've learned about the Pilgrims and "Thanksgiving" through school or books is inaccurate as like the Bible... Everyone has their own versions and interpretations of the original writings and the translation of the language. I found the movie fascinating and probably as accurate as we're going to get. The pilgrims heard about America and this "new land" but also heard "stories" about the savages. We all know what happens when a story is told... by the time it gets to the 20th person.. these savages could be the likes of the Devil himself. LOL So being weak and terrified coming to this new land and starving no less, and having no shelter. stealing things from the Indians is no great disgrace. They have been portrayed quite differently to us back in grade school. I find it interesting the amount of discussion there is every year on WHAT they ate. Who cares? I know some people who don't like turkey and have ham... Does that make their thanksgiving any less than ours? I just don't understand the relevance. So if we found positive proof that they did NOT have turkey and only had lobster and clams would everyone stop eating turkey for thanksgiving? The idea of this was .. it was a harvest meal and they gave thanks for this new land, their lives, and what God had provided them in the way of provisions. It doesn't matter who was their with them... It's about just giving thanks... a day of remembrance of what you have to be thankful for. Used to be a time when at every meal... we gave thanks for God's bounty that has been provided to us. I too would have been tickled if my Isaac Allerton was mentioned more but this movie was based on Bradford's writings so the story was based around the major players who were involved in this endeavor. I have a book by Caleb Johnson that discusses the Mayflower passengers and based on Bradfords accounts describes each passengers role in the entire trip. Not everyone can be the star of the show. If there is only "one know account" don't we have to take their word for it and quit making up our own stories and assumptions? Where would we be if we didn't have that even? My pride in watching the movie was what they went through on board the ship. I can't imagine such conditions. I watched a Mayflower movie over the weekend with Spencer Tracey and talk about dramatic license... They made William Bradford as the one who fell overboard not John Howland.... as the writers/director wanted a little "thing" going on between Capt. Jones and Dorothy Bradford. The more a story is told wrong the more questions and topics for discussions we have. Thanks Craig for letting WE lay people voice our opinions on the movie. Sometimes these discussions remind me of disagreements I have with my husband watching the History Channel or something.. all these PhD's and Historians MUST be wrong because my husband heard it differently somewhere else.. LOL I like to believe people who know more than I. Everything we read and watch is a dramatization because we weren't there and can only give interpretations of it the best way we can. Janean

Last night I watched "Desperate Crossing" with my sister (who is like me a Mayflower descendant but hasn't gotten into the genealogy), and my husband (whose ancestors came ca. 1843 during the potato famine). They are both intelligent and familiar with history, as I hope so am I. We found ourselves gripped by the story, not necessarily the PC or historically accurate elements. But what is it all about? My sister and I felt our family connections in a way I hadn't felt before. My husband understood and identified with us. I awakened this morning thinking about it. Karen

Dear Dr. Bangs, I have enjoyed the reading of upcoming new book on the Pilgrim's story and wonder if there will be more than the two chapters on the website. Very interesting and informative information. I have the Allerton and Cushman lines in our genealogy. Thank you for all you do on the historical side for the Pilgrim Story. S. Maurice McAllister ----- Original Message ----- From: <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 9:15 AM Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower movie > You might be interested in the article I wrote last year, "Thanksgiving on the Net: Roast Bull with Cranberry Sauce," online at: > > http://www.sail1620.org/discover_feature_thanksgiving_on_the_net_roast_bull_with_cranberry_sauce_part_1.shtml > > Happy Thanksgiving, > Jeremy Bangs > > "GMF" <[email protected]> wrote: > > >Unfortunately it seems that allegedly historical accounts of the past > >are too often plagued by political correctness. For example, it seems > >to me that the Indians' being one with nature is a myth long ago exploded. > > > >I haven't viewed the Thanksgiving section yet but I recall an ad for > >the Mayflower movie indicating there is only one known account of that > >event. Do we really know how accurate this account is assuming the ad > >is correct? > > > > > >GMF > >That wretched alchemist called money > >can turn a man's heart into a stone! > > > >-- "Craig Rich" <[email protected]> wrote: > >Earliest use of the term "America" was recorded 1507. > > > >By the way, As I stated earlier, I will not be my usual compulsive self and > >will not consider discussions about this movie as being "off topic" -- > >for a > >day or two. ;-) > > > >Craig Rich > >Mayflower List Administrator > >[email protected] > >www.macatawa.org/~crich/ > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > >-----Original Message----- > >From: [email protected] > >Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 11:40 PM > >To: [email protected] > >Subject: [MFLR] Mayflower movie > > > >Just a curious question. Did Brewster in his writings refer to the New > >World as America? > > > >There several times at the beginning of the movie that the New World was > >addressed as America by the Pilgrims. Something about those statements > >that doesn't ring true to me. > > > >I recognize it is just a movie so errors are going to occur. But I > >thought > >that the word America didn't come about until much later, like when the > >Revolutionaries fought for our independence in 1776, when we decided to be > >called the United States of America. > > > >I suppose I could be mistaken, but would like to have someone who has read > >Brewster's writings to answer this question, if they can. > > > >Christie Trapp > > > > > >-- > >No virus found in this outgoing message. > >Checked by AVG Free Edition. > >Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I sent a message in in response to Christie's, but it seems not to have come through--weasels don't get no respect! So first: ----- Original Message ---- From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> "Just a curious question. Did Brewster in his writings refer to the New World as America? There several times at the beginning of the movie that the New World was addressed as America by the Pilgrims. Something about those statements that doesn't ring true to me." An interesting observation, Christie. As always, Jeremy Bangs could answer best, because what is readily available to most of us are the writings that were done AFTER the crossing. In those writings, at least those that have been used to line my cage and with which I am familiar, the term New England is commonly used. To the south there was Virginia. Since the right to possess the land was then in contention among some powers of Europe it seems natural that terms such as Virginia, with reference to Elizabeth, which bespeak ownership (or New Sweden, New Netherlands in those cases) might be used rather than America. Having said that, one must also note that at the very beginning of Richard Hackluyt's volume of _The Principal Navigations, Voyages, Traffiques and Discoveries of The English Nation_which concerns America he says, "The subiect and matter herein contained is the fourth part of the world, which more commonly then properly is called America: but by the chiefest Authors The new world." So it would seem that in England the term America was used commonly, and the passengers might well have used it. But perhaps those on board would have said, "Virginia," since that's where they thought they were going. Sorry to natter on so, but this release from the absurd prohibition of non-genealogical topics by the tyrannical Craig is just so exhilarating. ----- Original Message ---- From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> "I'm a bit nieve and new to this subject, however, didn't people come over here before the Mayflower and landed, who settled in Jamestown, Virginia? " And second, the 1607 Jamestown settlement was not the first English attempt at settlement in Virginia, and prior to the Plymouth settlement there was the Popham colony in New England as well as fishing stations where English fishermen had been staying for summers for a long time before the Mayflower crossed. This isn't directed to you, but don't they teach history in the schools anymore? ____________________________________________________________________________________ Sponsored Link Compare mortgage rates for today. Get up to 5 free quotes. Www2.nextag.com

You might be interested in the article I wrote last year, "Thanksgiving on the Net: Roast Bull with Cranberry Sauce," online at: http://www.sail1620.org/discover_feature_thanksgiving_on_the_net_roast_bull_with_cranberry_sauce_part_1.shtml Happy Thanksgiving, Jeremy Bangs "GMF" <[email protected]> wrote: >Unfortunately it seems that allegedly historical accounts of the past >are too often plagued by political correctness. For example, it seems >to me that the Indians' being one with nature is a myth long ago exploded. > >I haven't viewed the Thanksgiving section yet but I recall an ad for >the Mayflower movie indicating there is only one known account of that >event. Do we really know how accurate this account is assuming the ad >is correct? > > >GMF >That wretched alchemist called money >can turn a man's heart into a stone! > >-- "Craig Rich" <oldp[email protected]> wrote: >Earliest use of the term "America" was recorded 1507. > >By the way, As I stated earlier, I will not be my usual compulsive self and >will not consider discussions about this movie as being "off topic" -- >for a >day or two. ;-) > >Craig Rich >Mayflower List Administrator >[email protected] >www.macatawa.org/~crich/ >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] >Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 11:40 PM >To: [email protected] >Subject: [MFLR] Mayflower movie > >Just a curious question. Did Brewster in his writings refer to the New >World as America? > >There several times at the beginning of the movie that the New World was >addressed as America by the Pilgrims. Something about those statements >that doesn't ring true to me. > >I recognize it is just a movie so errors are going to occur. But I >thought >that the word America didn't come about until much later, like when the >Revolutionaries fought for our independence in 1776, when we decided to be >called the United States of America. > >I suppose I could be mistaken, but would like to have someone who has read >Brewster's writings to answer this question, if they can. > >Christie Trapp > > >-- >No virus found in this outgoing message. >Checked by AVG Free Edition. >Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In a message dated 11/19/2006 7:03:43 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: My Cushman line married into the Harlow family. Elder Thomas Cushman married Mary Allerton Lydia Cushman married William Harlow Their daughter, Lydia Harlow, married Barnabas Churchill Their son, Barnabas Churchill, married Lydia Holmes Their son, Barnabas Churchill, married Sarah Faunce Their son, Job Churchill, married Hannah Turner Harlow Their son, Cornelius Bradford Churchill first married Sarah F Cushing and second married Carrie Ross Taylor. He was the first in the line to leave Plymouth. C B Churchill and Carrie Ross Taylor's youngest son, Ernest Taylor Churchill was my greatgrandfather. I have two questions. First, I have found no family connection to Cornelius Bradford, but most members in this line are named after direct ancestors, so why was Job Churchill's son named Cornelius Bradford Churchill? Second, I am unsure about Hannah Turner Harlow's ancestory. I have her father as Jesse Harlow, but no information about his parents. I have also seen her father's name given as James Harlow, but I think that is incorrect. I have her mother listed as Hannah Turner, again no information about her parents. My source for names of children and marriage was Plymouth Vital Records Intention of Marriage - Book Two [p. 150] Marriage - Book Two p. 365 [271] Children - Book Two p. 401 [316] Laura Laura: I have a problem with the line as you present it. Their son, Barnabas Churchill, married Lydia Holmes Their son, Barnabas Churchill, married Sarah Faunce Their son, Job Churchill, married Hannah Turner Harlow According to what I have for this family line I have Barnabas Churchill married to Lydia Holmes. I have the next two - Barnabas and Job as brothers, not as father and son. Yes, Barnabas married Sarah Faunce and yes, Job Churchill married Hannah Turner Harlow. But as brother's they can't be father and son because of their relationship to Barnabas and Lydia as parents. The Barnabas Churchill who married Sarah Faunce was born 25 Nov. 1747 in Plymouth, married 8 Oct. 1780 to Sarah Faunce, dau. of Thomas Faunce and Sarah Bartlett. Barnabas and Sarah had 3 children: Barnabas, b. 19 Oct 1784; Job, b. 2 Mar 1787 and Barnabas, b. 5 Feb. 1789. Both Barnabas boys die, so that only leaves Job eligible for marriage and having children. Barnabas (1747) marries a second time to Lydia Sylvester. I have no children for the second wife. The Job who married Hannah Turner Harlow was born 17 Aug 1756 in Plymouth, married 21 Dec. 1808 to Hannah and left 7 children. These seven are: Barnabas (1810), Job (1812), Sylvanus Harlow (1815), Hannah Turner (1817), Sally (1819), Salley (1821) and Cornelius Bradford (1824) This family structure was found in the following sources: The Genealogy Committee of the Harlow Family compilers & Alicia Crane Wiliams, ed. Harlow Family: Descendants of Sgt. William Harlow (1624/5-1691) of Plymouth, Massachusetts. Baltimore: Gateway Press, 1997. Vital Records of Plymouth, MA. The children of Barnabas Churchill Jr. and Lydia his wife are listed in the Plymouth VR, p. 140. This clearly puts Barnabas and Job as children in the same family, not as father and son as you suggest. On pg. 226 it lists the children of Job Churchill and Hannah T. his wife and names the seven children I just listed above. The intention of marriage of Job Churchell and Hannah Turner Harlow is on p. 303. The marriage of Job Churchell and Hannah Harlow is on p. 381. The children of Barnabas Churchill and Sarah his wife is on p. 393 - those three children I've listed above where it states that both boys named Barnabas were born and died and gives the birth and death date for Job. He doesn't die until March 27, 1826, so he has plenty of time to get married and have children. Job's death is also recorded on pg. 476 and again on pg. 503, though this time, it says he died on the 23rd of March rather than the 28th of March. His father, Barnabas's death is recorded on the same page along with Lydia, his second wife. The marriage of Cornelius B. Churchill and Sarah F. Cushing is recorded on pg. 613. It says his parents are Job and Hannah T. and her parents are Ezra & Betsey R. Cushing. The marriage of Ezra is on p. 322, 1825 Dec. 21 Ezra Cushing & Betsey R. Allen both of Plymouth. There is no birth record for Ezra or Betsey R. The birth of Barnabas (1686) is on pg. 53, his children are listed on p. 53, his marriage on p. 90 & 104. The intention of marriage of Barnabas Churchell, Jr. & Lydia Holmes is on pg. 159. The intention of marriage of Barnabas Churchell and Sarah Faunce is on p. 268 and the marriage on p 363. The death of Lydia Sylvester Churchill is reported on p. 476. The second marriage of Cornelius Bradford Churchill is not recorded in Plymouth VRs. Where did you find it? I agree with you about the Bradford name. I can't seem to see a Bradford connection. But maybe they just admired Mr. Bradford and decided to add his name to the mix just to confuse you and the rest of us. Of course, I do have some holes in the ancestry, so it is possible that the Bradford family connects somewhere, but I just don't have it yet. The ancestry of Hannah Turner Harlow is found on p. 401-402. She is listed as one of 11 children in the family of Jesse Harlow Jr. and Hannah. Hannah T. was born 12 June 1789. Jesse married Hannah Turner, p. 365, on Dec. 12, 1784, the intention is on p. 271 Aug. 28, 1784. They were both of Plymouth. There is no birth record for Hannah Turner, so even though the marriage entry says of Plymouth, her birth is not recorded in Plymouth. So she might have actually been born some place else. If I have my facts correct, Jesse's parents were: Jessie Harlow and Elizabeth Samson, both of Plymouth, married on April 23, 1762. p. 355. On p. 296 Capt. Jesse Harlow filing an intention to marry on June 8, 1804 a Miss Salley Cotton, both of Plymouth. This is his second marriage. Jesse's parents were John Harlow and Mary Rider and I can take this line back to Richard Warren through his daughter Mary Warren who married Robert Bartlett from both John and Mary. Elizabeth Sampson/Samson is a descendant of Myles Standish and John Alden. I don't have a connection for her Sampson/Samson line yet to connect her to the Mayflower Sampson, but you can check the Sampson volume to be sure. If you need her line, as I have it, let me know. There is a marriage intention, p. 321 for a Jesse Harlow and Mary Lothrop Nelson, both of Plymouth on Nov. 16, 1819 and the marriage, p.317, on Oct. 3, 1819. Whether this is a second marriage for Jesse Jr., I'm not sure yet. The time would be right, if Hannah Turner's death occurred before this date. Otherwise, there is another Jesse Harlow getting married. In conclusion, starting with Cornelius, his ancestry should be: Job Churchill - Hannah Turner Harlow Barnabas Churchill -Lydia Holmes Barnabas Churchill - Lydia Harlow William Harlow - Lydia Cushman Thomas Cushman - Mary Allerton Isaac Allerton - Mary Norris Going back to William Harlow - Lydia Cushman, you can reach Richard Warren by William Harlow - Rebecca Bartlett Robert Bartlett - Mary Warren Richard Warren - Elizabeth Walker Jesse Harlow Jr. - Hannah Turner Jesse Harlow - Elizabeth Sampson/Samson Noah Sampson - Jemima Rider Nathaniel Samson - Keturah Chandler Abraham Samson - Lora Standish - check about this one to see if Abraham connects to Mayflower Henry Samson Alexander Standish - Sarah Alden to John Alden - Priscilla Mullins Myles Standish - Barbara ?? I hope this helps to straighten out your family records with the correct lineage.

On "Naming America" here is an interesting story about it: http://www.uhmc.sunysb.edu/surgery/america.html I have read this one before, too; http://www.brazilbrazil.com/braznam.html I was riveted to the screen watching the "Desperate Crossings" documentary but I was surprised that not more passengers' names were mentioned. I realize that it was a big story to tell in just three hours, though. I got very emotional watching it and could not help but feel that all of the old, dramatic, western pioneer movies (Western U.S.) couldn't hold a candle to the experience those passengers must have endured! At least we didn't see them eat with forks! Lois Kortering ----- Original Message ----- From: "David E. Cann" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 12:39 AM Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower movie > OK, before we get cut off on this topic, it has always been my > understanding > that "America" was named after a Spanish seafarer named Amerigo Vespucci > (1454-1512) who lived roughly the same time as Columbus. Following is > some > information about him that sorta substantiates what I was taught in > school: > > http://geography.about.com/cs/historicalgeog/a/amerigo.htm > > This is not to say he got here first (he didn't), nor did he actually name > it "America" (don't know the answer to that), but it was supposedly named > after him, at least according to the above article and my HS history > teachers. So, if this is true, and I think it is, then the Pilgrims may > well have called this place America for a hundred years or so. > > Just my own two cents worth. . .before taxes. :-) > > > David E. Cann > [email protected] > [email protected] (alternate) > > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of [email protected] > Sent: Monday, 20 November 2006 12:13 AM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower movie > > Craig answered my question that the term America was used at last 100 > years > before the actual crossing in 1620. I wasn't aware of that and thanks for > the insight. > > Christie Trapp > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

OK, before we get cut off on this topic, it has always been my understanding that "America" was named after a Spanish seafarer named Amerigo Vespucci (1454-1512) who lived roughly the same time as Columbus. Following is some information about him that sorta substantiates what I was taught in school: http://geography.about.com/cs/historicalgeog/a/amerigo.htm This is not to say he got here first (he didn't), nor did he actually name it "America" (don't know the answer to that), but it was supposedly named after him, at least according to the above article and my HS history teachers. So, if this is true, and I think it is, then the Pilgrims may well have called this place America for a hundred years or so. Just my own two cents worth. . .before taxes. :-) David E. Cann [email protected] [email protected] (alternate) -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, 20 November 2006 12:13 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower movie Craig answered my question that the term America was used at last 100 years before the actual crossing in 1620. I wasn't aware of that and thanks for the insight. Christie Trapp

Craig answered my question that the term America was used at last 100 years before the actual crossing in 1620. I wasn't aware of that and thanks for the insight. Christie Trapp

Earliest use of the term "America" was recorded 1507. By the way, As I stated earlier, I will not be my usual compulsive self and will not consider discussions about this movie as being "off topic" -- for a day or two. ;-) Craig Rich Mayflower List Administrator [email protected] www.macatawa.org/~crich/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 11:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [MFLR] Mayflower movie Just a curious question. Did Brewster in his writings refer to the New World as America? There several times at the beginning of the movie that the New World was addressed as America by the Pilgrims. Something about those statements that doesn't ring true to me. I recognize it is just a movie so errors are going to occur. But I thought that the word America didn't come about until much later, like when the Revolutionaries fought for our independence in 1776, when we decided to be called the United States of America. I suppose I could be mistaken, but would like to have someone who has read Brewster's writings to answer this question, if they can. Christie Trapp -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006

Just a curious question. Did Brewster in his writings refer to the New World as America? There several times at the beginning of the movie that the New World was addressed as America by the Pilgrims. Something about those statements that doesn't ring true to me. I recognize it is just a movie so errors are going to occur. But I thought that the word America didn't come about until much later, like when the Revolutionaries fought for our independence in 1776, when we decided to be called the United States of America. I suppose I could be mistaken, but would like to have someone who has read Brewster's writings to answer this question, if they can. Christie Trapp

My Cushman line married into the Harlow family. Elder Thomas Cushman married Mary Allerton Lydia Cushman married William Harlow Their daughter, Lydia Harlow, married Barnabas Churchill Their son, Barnabas Churchill, married Lydia Holmes Their son, Barnabas Churchill, married Sarah Faunce Their son, Job Churchill, married Hannah Turner Harlow Their son, Cornelius Bradford Churchill first married Sarah F Cushing and second married Carrie Ross Taylor. He was the first in the line to leave Plymouth. C B Churchill and Carrie Ross Taylor's youngest son, Ernest Taylor Churchill was my greatgrandfather. I have two questions. First, I have found no family connection to Cornelius Bradford, but most members in this line are named after direct ancestors, so why was Job Churchill's son named Cornelius Bradford Churchill? Second, I am unsure about Hannah Turner Harlow's ancestory. I have her father as Jesse Harlow, but no information about his parents. I have also seen her father's name given as James Harlow, but I think that is incorrect. I have her mother listed as Hannah Turner, again no information about her parents. My source for names of children and marriage was Plymouth Vital Records Intention of Marriage - Book Two [p. 150] Marriage - Book Two p. 365 [271] Children - Book Two p. 401 [316] Laura

Judy: We've communicated before. My husband is a Cushman descendant. Which Cushman are you related to - please provide line. I've got the two Cushman published genealogies so can check to see if your's is listed. What is it you need to know? Christie

Ron, I've seen a couple of sources that cover from the 3rd generation of your line: 1) Denison Genealogy, E. Glenn Denison, (Stonington, CT: The Pequot Press, 1963). Edited by Josephine M. Peck & Donald L Jacobus. 2) History Of The Town Of Stonington, County of New London, Connecticut, Richard Anson Wheeler, (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co. Inc., 1977) Both have the fifth generation though I can't now find copies of the Denison Genealogy to check Thankful's birth date. The History of Stonington has 17 Jul 1747 vs 19 Jul 1747 that Kathy found in the Howland book. Perhaps the Denison Genealogy has more on Thankful's marriage to Alexander Stewart and subsequent generations. The Denison Genealogy gives the marriage of Avery Denison and Thankful Williams as 31 Jan 1734/5. The History of Stonington gives 31 Jan 1734. Since their first child was born 3 Nov 1734, I used 31 Jan 1734 for the marriage. An excerpt from the will of John Williams found in Mayflower Deeds and Probates, Susan Roser, (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co, 1994) "mentions wf Prudence, what she brought with her; sons John Williams, William Williams, Thomas Williams, Robert Williams, George Williams & Edward Williams; daus Desire Cheseborough, Thankful Denison & Mercy Wheeler; Eunice Williams wf of son George.." Thankful Williams was born on 8 Feb 1717/18 at Stonington, New London Co, CT. She married Avery Denison, son of William Denison and Mary Avery, on 31 Jan 1734 at Stonington, New London Co, CT. She died on 2 May 1767 at Stonington, New London Co., CT, at age 49. Avery Denison was born in 1712 at Preston, CT. He was baptized on 29 Jan 1727 at Preston, CT. He died on 3 Apr 1775 at Stonington, New London Co, CT. Children of Thankful Williams and Avery Denison were as follows: i. ELISHA was born on 3 Nov 1734. ii. NATHAN was born on 12 Aug 1736. He died young. iii. WILLIAM was born on 22 Mar 1738. iv. DESIRE was born on 5 Jun 1739. She married Thomas Miner, son of Simeon Miner and Hannah Wheeler. v. MARY was born on 8 Nov 1741. She married Jesse Denison, son of Captain John Denison and Mary Noyes, on 24 Jan 1759. vi. PRUDENCE was born on 3 Oct 1743. She married Joseph Noyes, son of Deacon John Noyes and Mary Gallup, on 27 Jan 1763. She died on 27 Nov 1820 at age 77. vii. MERCY was born on 7 Nov 1745. She married Edward Eells, son of Rev. Nathaniel Eells and Mercy Cushing, on 10 May 1764. She died on 3 Dec 1790 at age 45. viii. THANKFUL was born on 17 Jul 1747. She married Alexander Stewart. ix. ZERVIAH was born on 13 Jul 1751. x. REBECCA was born on 24 Mar 1754. xi. AVERY was born on 10 Apr 1756. Randy >> If someone with the Howland book (or other sources) of Desire's descendants >> could confirm (or deny) the following line, it would be most appreciated: >> >> 1. John Howland m. Elizabeth Tilly >> 2. Desire Howland m. John Gorham >> 3. Mercy Gorham m. George Denison, Jr. >> 4. Desire Denison m. John Williams >> 5. Thankful Williams m. Avery Denison >> 6.Thankful Denison m. Alexander Stewart >> 7. Thankful Stewart m. Elihu Denison >> >> Thanks, Ron

Hi List, These are my Doty lines that I'm researching. To save space per line I'm giving only brief dates and omitting name prefixes such as Deacon, Capt., etc and places. If you also follow these lines I will be glad to provide any further details that I may have. If I have an incorrect date or if you can provide a missing date or missing name or if you have any corrections on family lines I'd like to hear from you. 1-- Edward Doty (1600-1655) Faith Clark (____-1675) 2-- John Doty (1639/40-1701) Elizabeth Cook (1648/9-1692) 3-- Elisha Doten (1686-1756) Hannah Horton (____-1767) 4-- Edward Doten (1716-1775) Phebe Finney (1725-1775) 5-- Hannah Doten (Doty) (1767-1864) Hosea Washburn (1765-1817) 6-- Hosea Washburn (1796-1883) Hannah Maxim (1801-1863) 7-- Alden F Washburn (1820-1888) Judith L Jones (1823-1887) 8-- Edward Jones Washburn (1861-1914) Alice Eldora Williams (1867-1950) 9-- Evangeline Estelle Washburn (1895-1981) Vivian Daniel Sylvester (1893-1968) 10--Living Sylvester (1917-) Living Merry (1924-) 11--David Wayne Sylvester (1951-) Living (1955-) 12--Living Sylvester (1991-) Edward Doty arrived on the Mayflower in 1620. Elizabeth Cook wife of John Doty was granddaughter of Mayflower passenger Francis Cooke and daughter of Anne passenger Jacob Cooke. She was also granddaughter of Mayflower passenger Stephen Hopkins. I'd like to find the parents of Hannah Horton wife of Elisha Doten. Hannah Doten (Doty) wife of Hosea Washburn was great-great-great-granddaughter of Mayflower passenger Richard Warren and Anne passenger Elizabeth [Walker] Warren. 1-- Edward Doty (1600-1655) Faith Clark (____-1675) 2-- John Doty (1639/40-1701) Sarah Jones (____-1701) 3-- Desire Doty (1699-____) George Barrow (1698-____) 4-- Patience Barrow (1724-1807) Cornelius Dunham (1716-1766) 5-- James Dunham (1758-1829) Elizabeth Robbins (1758-1820) 6-- George Dunham (____-1876) Bethiah Friend (1783-1843) 7-- Rosanna Dunham (1818-1878) William Stinson Glidden (1814-1883) 8-- Phebe Elizabeth Glidden (1840-1927) Randall Nelson Cochran (1836-1905) 9-- Evelyn Lissie Cochran (1868-1917) Dummer Michael Sylvester (1865-1958) 10--Vivian Daniel Sylvester (1893-1968) Evangeline Estelle Washburn (1895-1981) 11--Living Sylvester (1917-) Living Merry (1924-) 12--David Wayne Sylvester (1951-) Living (1955-) 13--Living Sylvester (1991-) George Barrow husband of Desire Doty was great-grandson of Fortune passenger Moses Simmons. Little did my grandparents (Vivian and Evangeline) know that they were 6th cousins once removed in this line. David Sylvester 28 North Searsport Road Searsport, Maine 04974 Discuss our First Ships roots at http://www.feliixplace.com/genealogylists/firstships.html

No, it shouldn't. My name was never Anderson. My mother married him when I was three years old. He never adopted me. My birth name was Colleen Sue Downey. Colleen Joan Norstedt <[email protected]> wrote: Colleen - should this read Colleen Downey Anderson m. Barry Morse? On Nov 16, 2006, at 9:07 AM, MsTigerHawk wrote: Here's my line: Bernice Downey m. William O. Anderson Colleen Downey m. Barry Morse Colleen Downey Morse Minneosta ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ********************************************************** Don't miss this website if you like to read. --------------------------------- Sponsored Link Mortgage rates near 39yr lows. $510,000 Mortgage for $1,698/mo - Calculate new house payment