In a message dated 11/20/2006 2:14:20 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: Acoma Pueblo. Jeremy: Hum. Wikipedia does say Acoma Puebo in New Mexico is the oldest continuous which supercedes my comment about Tucson, but when I was living in Tucson in the late 70s-early 80s, that's what came to light then. Perhaps this place has recently been able to lay claim to the title. Here's Wikipedia on Tucson: Tucson was probably first visited by _Paleo-Indians_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paleo-Indians) , known to have been in southern Arizona by about 12,000 years ago. Recent archaeological excavations near the _Santa Cruz River_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Santa_Cruz_River) have located a village site dating back 4,000 years ago. The floodplain of the Santa Cruz River was extensively farmed by people during the Early Agricultural period, circa 1200 B.C. to A.D. 150. These people constructed irrigation canals and grew corn, beans, and other crops while gathering wild plants and hunting animals. The Early Ceramic period occupation of Tucson saw the first extensive use of pottery vessels for cooking and storage. The groups designated by archaeologists as the _Hohokam_ (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hohokam) lived in the area from A.D. 600-1450 and are known for their red-on-brown pottery. SO I would probably say they are probably tied. Is the 10th century before 12,000 years ago? Oh, well. Back to Mayflower research. Thanks Jeremy for finding something older! Christie Trapp

The Abraham Sampson Descendant Report on www.PilgrimHenrySamsonKindred.org <http://www.pilgrimhenrysamsonkindred.org/> has been updated and now runs well over 600 pages in a free downloadable PDF. It is based on the PHSK's 16,100+ individual "Abraham Sampson Source Database." In its "all name index," running from page 537-646, nearly all the Pilgrim surnames appear, Abraham's descendants having married into those Pilgrim's lines. Sons Abraham Jr. and Isaac Sampson married granddaughters of Pilgrims John Alden and Myles Standish, and Isaac and Lydia Standish Sampson's daughter Priscilla married Jabez Fuller, great-grandson of Pilgrim Samuel Fuller. As an example, should you locate, say, a great-great-grandparent of yours among the hundreds of other included surnames, you might find a line back to Abraham or a Pilgrim. Samples are posted of other reports (Ahnentafel, pedigree or ancestor) that are available. These are provided by PHSK to raise funds to place memorials to Abraham and Pilgrim Henry in the parish churches where they were, respectively, baptized in Campton and Henlow, Bedfordshire, England. There are hopes to dedicate the Pilgrim Henry Samson memorial in St. Mary the Virgin Church in Henlow in September 2007 during the General Society of Mayflower Descendants tour at that time of Holland and England. This is the same church in which Elizabeth Tilley, the eventual wife of Pilgrim John Howland, was baptized. The Abraham Sampson Descendant Report will be upgraded again in the near future.

Again, I think it's a matter of your perspective... If you live in Virginia, as I have for the last 25 years, you tend to hear WAY more about Jamestown and its ships (the Susan Constant, the Godspeed, and the Discovery), than you ever do about Plymouth and the Mayflower -- even in this "Thanksgiving season"! In fact, my experience has been that "If it didn't happen here, we don't care!" is the general "attitude" of many of the local libraries and other places where one might reasonably expect to do genealogical or historical research (and perhaps having to do with people who settled in ALL parts of this country too...in fact, my main research interest right now happens to be Oklahoma Territory, and there's REALLY not much to be found locally on that place!)! OK then... Happy Thanksgiving to all! :-) Kathy Fenton Virginia Beach, VA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janean " <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 5:00 PM Subject: Re: [MFLR] Jamestown comment >I mean in general - not this list, not specifically...... All I meant is the > Mayflower has basically, for a lack of a better phrase, been in the > limelight. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of Kathy Fenton > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:53 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MFLR] Jamestown comment > > Actually, you may think that because this is the Mayflower list, not the > Jamestown one! :-) > > However (although this is not the venue to promote it...), Jamestown IS > getting quite a lot of attention right now, as we are > only a few weeks from 2007 -- the 400th anniversary of the settlement of > Jamestown, the first permanent English colony in > North America (in fact, Jamestown is called by many "the birthplace of > America" for that very reason...)! > > If anyone is interested in Jamestown in general, or the statewide events > surrounding this year-long "birthday party" (among > them a viewing of one of the original copies of the Magna Carta, right here > in Virginia Beach, in fact...), there are many > ways to find out about them -- even just a Google search will do it! For > starters, however, try this website: > > http://www.historyisfun.org/jamestown/jamestown.cfm > > Kathy > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Kathy Fenton > Virginia Beach, VA > (Descendant of Alden/Mullins, Brewster, Doty, Edward Fuller, Hopkins, > Howland/Tilley, Rogers, Samson, and Standish) > > http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/f/e/n/K-Fenton/index.html > > Recycle yourself! Tell someone you want to be an organ and tissue donor! > http://save7lives.org > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Janean " <[email protected]> > To: <[email protected]> > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:34 PM > Subject: [MFLR] Jamestown comment > > >> You are so right. Their hardships and deaths were no less than the >> Mayflower passengers... more so maybe as they lost more people. But they >> don't get the recognition for anything now do they? Except for maybe the >> Jamestown ancestors. >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] > [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of HopeStanley >> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:25 PM >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [MFLR] my 2 cents on Mayflower Movie... >> >> No not the Mayflower, but yes three ships brought the first English to >> Virginia in 1607. They settled in what they called Jamestown, on the > river >> they called the James. They suffered the same hardships and fears that > our >> Northern cousins went through. We are having our 100th anv. all of next >> year, from Jan till Dec. Come and join the fun. >> Hope >> >> -------Original Message------- >> >> From: [email protected] >> Date: 11/20/06 14:14:03 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: [MFLR] my 2 cents on Mayflower Movie... >> >> It was extraordinary! I'm going to order the DVD. Somebody > mentioned >> why English people referred to America long before the Pilgrims.... >> >> I'm a bit nieve and new to this subject, however, didn't people come over >> here before the Mayflower and landed, who settled in Jamestown, > Virginia? >> >> I lived in Portsmouth, Virginia Beach and Norfolk Virginia before I got >> interested in genealogy, and the people of Virginia told me that they had >> claim >> to the first settlement in Jamestown. >> >> I'm a bit confused. Thank you for anybody willing to take the time to >> help >> me figure this history out. did the Mayflower make her first trip to >> Virginia years before. >> >> -D >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> -- >> No virus found in this incoming message. >> Checked by AVG Free Edition. >> Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 >> >> . >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

----- Original Message ---- From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> "The thing that sets Plymouth apart is the records that were kept by Bradford." Umm, as someone whose family could claim membership in the Jamestown Society as well as the Mayflower Society I have to take issue with this. Bradford's history is surely part of the equation, though John Smith did some writing too. The fact is, the story of Jamestown just ain't pretty. It was a commercial venture and the colonists were a highly stratified society with initially no women and then not many. The colonists were there to exploit the country, not find a new home, and soon they were living in horrifying squalor, eating dogs, cats, rats and then their own dead with one man killing his wife and cutting her up to stock his pantry. Starving men were executed for stealing morsels of food, the laws make Draco look like a pussycat, the history is of one extraordinary catastrophe after another. I mean it just doesn't make the grade as the foundation of the national mythos. Not that we might not be better off thinking about it. Just sayin'

I was under the impression that the oldest continuously inhabited town in the United States is Acoma Pueblo. - Jeremy Bangs [email protected] wrote: >What fun it was to read the weasel's comments and observations. I had to >laugh. Thanks for the levity. We all need it this time of year. And thanks >for digging into the background for the term America and ferreting out the >details. > >I asked the question in the past about Jamestown and never got a >satisfactory answer. But from the list, it looks like Jamestown is going to do it up >big for its 400th birthday in 2007. Happy Birthday, Jamestown. > >Now to move on to Tucson as the oldest continuously inhabited city - >displacing St. Augustine in Florida when archeologist found remnants of building >structures in the old part of town. But that's for another list and not this >one, so I'll get back to Mayflower research and posting more questions for the >weasel to answer! > >Everyone - have a great Thanksgiving. Since someone indicated that the >movie was going to be aired on Thanksgiving. I'll check it out here in SF and >perhaps this time I'll actually watch it without being distracted by genealogy! > >Christie Trapp > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

The other day Queen Elizabeth II announced that she is planning to attend the Jamestown festivities next year. I wonder who Plymouth will get for its 400th in 2020? Anyone have that kind of vision (still?)? Stacy Wood

What fun it was to read the weasel's comments and observations. I had to laugh. Thanks for the levity. We all need it this time of year. And thanks for digging into the background for the term America and ferreting out the details. I asked the question in the past about Jamestown and never got a satisfactory answer. But from the list, it looks like Jamestown is going to do it up big for its 400th birthday in 2007. Happy Birthday, Jamestown. Now to move on to Tucson as the oldest continuously inhabited city - displacing St. Augustine in Florida when archeologist found remnants of building structures in the old part of town. But that's for another list and not this one, so I'll get back to Mayflower research and posting more questions for the weasel to answer! Everyone - have a great Thanksgiving. Since someone indicated that the movie was going to be aired on Thanksgiving. I'll check it out here in SF and perhaps this time I'll actually watch it without being distracted by genealogy! Christie Trapp

I mean in general - not this list, not specifically...... All I meant is the Mayflower has basically, for a lack of a better phrase, been in the limelight. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Kathy Fenton Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:53 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MFLR] Jamestown comment Actually, you may think that because this is the Mayflower list, not the Jamestown one! :-) However (although this is not the venue to promote it...), Jamestown IS getting quite a lot of attention right now, as we are only a few weeks from 2007 -- the 400th anniversary of the settlement of Jamestown, the first permanent English colony in North America (in fact, Jamestown is called by many "the birthplace of America" for that very reason...)! If anyone is interested in Jamestown in general, or the statewide events surrounding this year-long "birthday party" (among them a viewing of one of the original copies of the Magna Carta, right here in Virginia Beach, in fact...), there are many ways to find out about them -- even just a Google search will do it! For starters, however, try this website: http://www.historyisfun.org/jamestown/jamestown.cfm Kathy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kathy Fenton Virginia Beach, VA (Descendant of Alden/Mullins, Brewster, Doty, Edward Fuller, Hopkins, Howland/Tilley, Rogers, Samson, and Standish) http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/f/e/n/K-Fenton/index.html Recycle yourself! Tell someone you want to be an organ and tissue donor! http://save7lives.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janean " <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: [MFLR] Jamestown comment > You are so right. Their hardships and deaths were no less than the > Mayflower passengers... more so maybe as they lost more people. But they > don't get the recognition for anything now do they? Except for maybe the > Jamestown ancestors. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of HopeStanley > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MFLR] my 2 cents on Mayflower Movie... > > No not the Mayflower, but yes three ships brought the first English to > Virginia in 1607. They settled in what they called Jamestown, on the river > they called the James. They suffered the same hardships and fears that our > Northern cousins went through. We are having our 100th anv. all of next > year, from Jan till Dec. Come and join the fun. > Hope > > -------Original Message------- > > From: [email protected] > Date: 11/20/06 14:14:03 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [MFLR] my 2 cents on Mayflower Movie... > > It was extraordinary! I'm going to order the DVD. Somebody mentioned > why English people referred to America long before the Pilgrims.... > > I'm a bit nieve and new to this subject, however, didn't people come over > here before the Mayflower and landed, who settled in Jamestown, Virginia? > > I lived in Portsmouth, Virginia Beach and Norfolk Virginia before I got > interested in genealogy, and the people of Virginia told me that they had > claim > to the first settlement in Jamestown. > > I'm a bit confused. Thank you for anybody willing to take the time to > help > me figure this history out. did the Mayflower make her first trip to > Virginia years before. > > -D > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 > > . > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

In a message dated 11/20/2006 6:20:16 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: there is only one known account of that event. Do we really know how accurate this account is assuming the ad is correct? I watched the movie twice. Well, mostly listened as I was answering email at the same time. But they said at the very beginning that the basis of this movie was on the writings of Bradford, so we only have his account of the facts. But I also noticed that the author of the latest book, Mayflower was also interviewed and after having read it, I can see that the episodes regarding the Indians and their perspective might have come from this author as I seemed to view the book, as I was reading it, that it was trying to tell the events from the Indians point of view. I do remember reading that the Pilgrims had dug up graves, found food buried and that sort of thing and that part was relayed in the movie. Plus I also enjoyed the fact that there were professors and historians that were interjecting with comments periodically so that you got an understanding of some of the historical events. I felt the movie was very well done. The only thing that bothered me at the beginning was the term America, but Craig responded and indicated that the term America had been referenced at least 100 years before the Pilgrims actually arrived and well before Jamestown became a dot on any map. So, with his explanation in mind, when I saw the movie the second time around on the same time (it was repeated later and I happened to still be up and on the computer, so that's how I saw it twice), it didn't bother me so much. I felt it was fairly well balanced between telling the story from the Pilgrims point of view and that of the Indians. Perhaps the later was based on the influence of the new book, Mayflower. Christie Trapp

Very interesting! GMF That wretched alchemist called money can turn a man's heart into a stone! -- [email protected] wrote: You might be interested in the article I wrote last year, "Thanksgiving on the Net: Roast Bull with Cranberry Sauce," online at: http://www.sail1620.org/discover_feature_thanksgiving_on_the_net_roast_bull_with_cranberry_sauce_part_1.shtml Happy Thanksgiving, Jeremy Bangs "GMF" <[email protected]> wrote: >Unfortunately it seems that allegedly historical accounts of the past >are too often plagued by political correctness. For example, it seems >to me that the Indians' being one with nature is a myth long ago exploded. > >I haven't viewed the Thanksgiving section yet but I recall an ad for >the Mayflower movie indicating there is only one known account of that >event. Do we really know how accurate this account is assuming the ad >is correct? > > >GMF >That wretched alchemist called money >can turn a man's heart into a stone! > >-- "Craig Rich" <[email protected]> wrote: >Earliest use of the term "America" was recorded 1507. > >By the way, As I stated earlier, I will not be my usual compulsive self and >will not consider discussions about this movie as being "off topic" -- >for a >day or two. ;-) > >Craig Rich >Mayflower List Administrator >[email protected] >www.macatawa.org/~crich/ >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- > >--

With the "America" discussion on this list but there was one interesting point of the show in that when they first saw land they referred ti it as cape cod. Now that is where they first landed and the depiction of the terrine is consistent with That part of the cape. I wouldn't not thought that particular piece of land had been named in 1620. however I found this on wiki Cape Cod was a landmark for early explorers, possibly the "Promontory of Vinland" mentioned by the Norse voyagers (985-1025). Giovanni da Verrazzano in 1524 approached it from the south, and Gomez the next year called it Cape St. James. Bartholomew Gosnold in 1602 gave it the name that survives. Samuel de Champlain charted its sand-silted harbors in 1606 and Henry Hudson landed there in 1609. Captain John Smith noted it on his map of 1614 and at last the Pilgrims entered the "Cape Harbor" and--contrary to the popular myth of Plymouth Rock--made their first landing near present-day Provincetown on November 11, 1620. Nearby, in what is now Eastham, they had their first encounter with Native Americans. [email protected] wrote: > It was extraordinary! I'm going to order the DVD. Somebody mentioned > why English people referred to America long before the Pilgrims.... > > I'm a bit nieve and new to this subject, however, didn't people come over > here before the Mayflower and landed, who settled in Jamestown, Virginia? > > I lived in Portsmouth, Virginia Beach and Norfolk Virginia before I got > interested in genealogy, and the people of Virginia told me that they had claim > to the first settlement in Jamestown. > > I'm a bit confused. Thank you for anybody willing to take the time to help > me figure this history out. did the Mayflower make her first trip to > Virginia years before. > > -D > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >

In response to the following, see below it: "I sent a message in in response to Christie's, but it seems not to have come through--weasels don't get no respect! So first: ----- Original Message ---- From: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> "Just a curious question. Did Brewster in his writings refer to the New World as America? There several times at the beginning of the movie that the New World was addressed as America by the Pilgrims. Something about those statements that doesn't ring true to me." ------------------------- An interesting observation, Christie. -------------------- As always, Jeremy Bangs could answer best, because what is readily available to most of us are the writings that were done AFTER the crossing. In those writings, at least those that have been used to line my cage and with which I am familiar, the term New England is commonly used. " ===============[ response: ]===================== Well, I'm flattered, of course. Brewster's writings are not known. But all one needs to do is read Bradford, who, in writing about the discussions that led to the decision to go to America, says, "The place they had thoughts on was some of those vast & unpeopled countries of America, which are fruitfull & fit for habitation, being devoyd of all civill inhabitants, wher ther are only salvage & brutish men, which range up and downe, litle otherwise than ye wild beasts of the same." - Jeremy Bangs

Actually, you may think that because this is the Mayflower list, not the Jamestown one! :-) However (although this is not the venue to promote it...), Jamestown IS getting quite a lot of attention right now, as we are only a few weeks from 2007 -- the 400th anniversary of the settlement of Jamestown, the first permanent English colony in North America (in fact, Jamestown is called by many "the birthplace of America" for that very reason...)! If anyone is interested in Jamestown in general, or the statewide events surrounding this year-long "birthday party" (among them a viewing of one of the original copies of the Magna Carta, right here in Virginia Beach, in fact...), there are many ways to find out about them -- even just a Google search will do it! For starters, however, try this website: http://www.historyisfun.org/jamestown/jamestown.cfm Kathy ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Kathy Fenton Virginia Beach, VA (Descendant of Alden/Mullins, Brewster, Doty, Edward Fuller, Hopkins, Howland/Tilley, Rogers, Samson, and Standish) http://www.familytreemaker.com/users/f/e/n/K-Fenton/index.html Recycle yourself! Tell someone you want to be an organ and tissue donor! http://save7lives.org ----- Original Message ----- From: "Janean " <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:34 PM Subject: [MFLR] Jamestown comment > You are so right. Their hardships and deaths were no less than the > Mayflower passengers... more so maybe as they lost more people. But they > don't get the recognition for anything now do they? Except for maybe the > Jamestown ancestors. > > -----Original Message----- > From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] > On Behalf Of HopeStanley > Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:25 PM > To: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MFLR] my 2 cents on Mayflower Movie... > > No not the Mayflower, but yes three ships brought the first English to > Virginia in 1607. They settled in what they called Jamestown, on the river > they called the James. They suffered the same hardships and fears that our > Northern cousins went through. We are having our 100th anv. all of next > year, from Jan till Dec. Come and join the fun. > Hope > > -------Original Message------- > > From: [email protected] > Date: 11/20/06 14:14:03 > To: [email protected] > Subject: [MFLR] my 2 cents on Mayflower Movie... > > It was extraordinary! I'm going to order the DVD. Somebody mentioned > why English people referred to America long before the Pilgrims.... > > I'm a bit nieve and new to this subject, however, didn't people come over > here before the Mayflower and landed, who settled in Jamestown, Virginia? > > I lived in Portsmouth, Virginia Beach and Norfolk Virginia before I got > interested in genealogy, and the people of Virginia told me that they had > claim > to the first settlement in Jamestown. > > I'm a bit confused. Thank you for anybody willing to take the time to > help > me figure this history out. did the Mayflower make her first trip to > Virginia years before. > > -D > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > -- > No virus found in this incoming message. > Checked by AVG Free Edition. > Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 > > . > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

In a message dated 11/20/2006 2:30:23 P.M. Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: I hope the History Channel runs it again on Thanksgiving Day! Because that's what I am going to give thanks for. The brave souls that were so desperate for a new life that they risked their own to come to a place where they may surely die. Scared to death of whether they would even get there and when they did what would they find. Savages and wild beasts? As far as they knew these indigenous people were cannibals. Janean, I just checked our program guide in DC, and it will be repeated from 8-11 PM (EST) on Thursday! I hope that's true everywhere! Wilson

You are so right. Their hardships and deaths were no less than the Mayflower passengers... more so maybe as they lost more people. But they don't get the recognition for anything now do they? Except for maybe the Jamestown ancestors. -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of HopeStanley Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 2:25 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MFLR] my 2 cents on Mayflower Movie... No not the Mayflower, but yes three ships brought the first English to Virginia in 1607. They settled in what they called Jamestown, on the river they called the James. They suffered the same hardships and fears that our Northern cousins went through. We are having our 100th anv. all of next year, from Jan till Dec. Come and join the fun. Hope -------Original Message------- From: [email protected] Date: 11/20/06 14:14:03 To: [email protected] Subject: [MFLR] my 2 cents on Mayflower Movie... It was extraordinary! I'm going to order the DVD. Somebody mentioned why English people referred to America long before the Pilgrims.... I'm a bit nieve and new to this subject, however, didn't people come over here before the Mayflower and landed, who settled in Jamestown, Virginia? I lived in Portsmouth, Virginia Beach and Norfolk Virginia before I got interested in genealogy, and the people of Virginia told me that they had claim to the first settlement in Jamestown. I'm a bit confused. Thank you for anybody willing to take the time to help me figure this history out. did the Mayflower make her first trip to Virginia years before. -D ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 . ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Should have read our 400th anniversary. -------Original Message------- From: HopeStanley Date: 11/20/06 14:26:22 To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MFLR] my 2 cents on Mayflower Movie... No not the Mayflower, but yes three ships brought the first English to Virginia in 1607. They settled in what they called Jamestown, on the river they called the James. They suffered the same hardships and fears that our Northern cousins went through. We are having our 100th anv. all of next year, from Jan till Dec. Come and join the fun. Hope -------Original Message------- From: [email protected] Date: 11/20/06 14:14:03 To: [email protected] Subject: [MFLR] my 2 cents on Mayflower Movie... It was extraordinary! I'm going to order the DVD. Somebody mentioned why English people referred to America long before the Pilgrims.... I'm a bit nieve and new to this subject, however, didn't people come over here before the Mayflower and landed, who settled in Jamestown, Virginia? I lived in Portsmouth, Virginia Beach and Norfolk Virginia before I got interested in genealogy, and the people of Virginia told me that they had claim to the first settlement in Jamestown. I'm a bit confused. Thank you for anybody willing to take the time to help me figure this history out. did the Mayflower make her first trip to Virginia years before. -D ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 .. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 .

No not the Mayflower, but yes three ships brought the first English to Virginia in 1607. They settled in what they called Jamestown, on the river they called the James. They suffered the same hardships and fears that our Northern cousins went through. We are having our 100th anv. all of next year, from Jan till Dec. Come and join the fun. Hope -------Original Message------- From: [email protected] Date: 11/20/06 14:14:03 To: [email protected] Subject: [MFLR] my 2 cents on Mayflower Movie... It was extraordinary! I'm going to order the DVD. Somebody mentioned why English people referred to America long before the Pilgrims.... I'm a bit nieve and new to this subject, however, didn't people come over here before the Mayflower and landed, who settled in Jamestown, Virginia? I lived in Portsmouth, Virginia Beach and Norfolk Virginia before I got interested in genealogy, and the people of Virginia told me that they had claim to the first settlement in Jamestown. I'm a bit confused. Thank you for anybody willing to take the time to help me figure this history out. did the Mayflower make her first trip to Virginia years before. -D ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 .

The naming of America in the 1507 map by Waldseemüller is very informative. Did you know that by 1800, and earlier, the Europeans were referring to America as the Kingdom of United States of America. This is evidenced to us in a 1799 English will left by one of my English ancestors. Craig, thank you for the off-topic opportunity......the legacy of our ancestors continues to educate us... r/Steven Mitchell

Unfortunately it seems that allegedly historical accounts of the past are too often plagued by political correctness. For example, it seems to me that the Indians' being one with nature is a myth long ago exploded. I haven't viewed the Thanksgiving section yet but I recall an ad for the Mayflower movie indicating there is only one known account of that event. Do we really know how accurate this account is assuming the ad is correct? GMF That wretched alchemist called money can turn a man's heart into a stone! -- "Craig Rich" <[email protected]> wrote: Earliest use of the term "America" was recorded 1507. By the way, As I stated earlier, I will not be my usual compulsive self and will not consider discussions about this movie as being "off topic" -- for a day or two. ;-) Craig Rich Mayflower List Administrator [email protected] www.macatawa.org/~crich/ --------------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] Sent: Sunday, November 19, 2006 11:40 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [MFLR] Mayflower movie Just a curious question. Did Brewster in his writings refer to the New World as America? There several times at the beginning of the movie that the New World was addressed as America by the Pilgrims. Something about those statements that doesn't ring true to me. I recognize it is just a movie so errors are going to occur. But I thought that the word America didn't come about until much later, like when the Revolutionaries fought for our independence in 1776, when we decided to be called the United States of America. I suppose I could be mistaken, but would like to have someone who has read Brewster's writings to answer this question, if they can. Christie Trapp -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.409 / Virus Database: 268.14.7/538 - Release Date: 11/18/2006 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

It was extraordinary! I'm going to order the DVD. Somebody mentioned why English people referred to America long before the Pilgrims.... I'm a bit nieve and new to this subject, however, didn't people come over here before the Mayflower and landed, who settled in Jamestown, Virginia? I lived in Portsmouth, Virginia Beach and Norfolk Virginia before I got interested in genealogy, and the people of Virginia told me that they had claim to the first settlement in Jamestown. I'm a bit confused. Thank you for anybody willing to take the time to help me figure this history out. did the Mayflower make her first trip to Virginia years before. -D