In a message dated 11/30/2006 7:47:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, [email protected] writes: 15-Me 1937- Wife-Ernestine 1939 5 children & 13 grandchildren. 12-Jonathan A James Who is 12 - Jonathan A. James? Is he really generation 13? Who is the ME in generation 12? Are you Norman V. -- being a Junior? Mercy Prence 1639-1711 MF#27345 John Freeman 1625-1719 John Freeman 1665 MF#13260 John Freeman 1678-1767 MF#13261 Mercy Watson 1683-1745 I'm a bit confused by the dates of birth you list for both Mercy Prence and John Freeman. For Mercy I have bef 28 Sept 1631 and you give a date 8 years later. Where did you get that year? For John I have about 1622, you gave 1625. Where did you get that year? You didn't list a wife for their son John Freeman and the year of death is not what I have found. You say John Freeman died 1665. I have 27 July 1721. Could this 1665 date be for some other child? His wife's name - and he had two, but the one you need is Sarah Merrick. <It was really strange that all lines descended to Nicholas King & Lydia Barlow and followed on to myself.> Yeap. That's the way it usually works! Christie Trapp

In a message dated 11/30/2006 7:47:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, Norman V. James" <[email protected] writes: 8-Obed Barlow 1751-1839 9-Elizabeth Barlow1756-1842 MF#1918 10-Lydia Barlow 1786-1862 MF#1920 Nicholas King 1787-1851 While it may be correct, I am having a problem with the dates between generations 8 and 9 - they are too close together. Did you mean to post generation nine as the wife of Obediah Barlow? Then generation nine is really Lydia Barlow - Nicholas King? Perhaps you can clarify this link. Christie Trapp

A good message for a philosphy board, but not for Mayflower Genealogy. Thanks! -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 1:17 AM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MFLR] Desperate Crossing and genocide Karen, I am an Air Force Brat who lived 7 k from Dachau in 1950. I too have seen the results of genocide and the results of "Man's Inhumanity to Man" My father made history a very important part of my brother's and my life thus the deep interest in genealogy. How do we know where we are going if we have no idea where we have come from? Genocide was a hot topic in my home as my father was co-pilot of the plane that flew the decoy raid the day Tibbets and the Enola Gay dropped the bomb on Hiroshima. Another lesson in Man's Inhumanity to Man. When will people realize that history repeats itself if we are not aware of what has happened in our past. Terry DeCoster-Roemer Message: 4 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:19:05 -0500 From: "Karen Sullivan" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MFLR] Desperate Crossing To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Believe it or not -- I'm an Army Brat who lived at Dachau, WG, in 1962 where my dad was a battlation commander. Yes, the concentration camp became a US Army kaserne with a displaced persons (DP) camp after WWII. I was just 17, a high school girl, but I have seen genocide and what it means. Colleen, I am sad that you feel like this. But I think stupidity or even bigotry is not the same as genocide. Craig, if you want to stop this thread, it's fine with me. Karen ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Karen, I am an Air Force Brat who lived 7 k from Dachau in 1950. I too have seen the results of genocide and the results of "Man's Inhumanity to Man" My father made history a very important part of my brother's and my life thus the deep interest in genealogy. How do we know where we are going if we have no idea where we have come from? Genocide was a hot topic in my home as my father was co-pilot of the plane that flew the decoy raid the day Tibbets and the Enola Gay dropped the bomb on Hiroshima. Another lesson in Man's Inhumanity to Man. When will people realize that history repeats itself if we are not aware of what has happened in our past. Terry DeCoster-Roemer Message: 4 Date: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 16:19:05 -0500 From: "Karen Sullivan" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MFLR] Desperate Crossing To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Believe it or not -- I'm an Army Brat who lived at Dachau, WG, in 1962 where my dad was a battlation commander. Yes, the concentration camp became a US Army kaserne with a displaced persons (DP) camp after WWII. I was just 17, a high school girl, but I have seen genocide and what it means. Colleen, I am sad that you feel like this. But I think stupidity or even bigotry is not the same as genocide. Craig, if you want to stop this thread, it's fine with me. Karen

You have got to be kidding. And how old was this person? What does this say about our society? About our schools? OMG I can't believe that! -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of [email protected] Sent: Monday, November 20, 2006 7:51 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MFLR] Thoughts: The Desperate Crossing I grew up in Boston and now live in Pensacola, FL. I told someone I was Mayflower descendant and they said................"what's that?" ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I am through the Elder Brewster line, but I have the Hinckleys in my line. I could not find a Temperance in my data base but I probably don't have the complete list. Mine was Hannah Hinckley(Ezekiel,John) who married my gg grandfather Benjamin Athearn in 1819. They were of Maine. >From: [email protected] >Reply-To: [email protected], [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: [MFLR] Henry Samson line >Date: Tue, 28 Nov 2006 08:52:24 -0500 (GMT-05:00) > >Henry Samson + Ann Plummer >Elizabeth Samson + Robert Sprout >Mercy Sprout + Thomas Oldham (Jr.) >Mercy Oldham + Andrew Newcomb >Mercy Newcomb + John Brown >William Brown + Temperance Hinckley >Zilpha Brown + Samuel Whorf >George Whorf + Sarah Ghen >Zilpha Whorf + Julius Churchill (Richard Warren, John Billington, Francis >Cooke) >Carrie Lee Churchill + Amos Carpenter (Thomas Rogers) >Millie Carpenter + Arthur Deverell >Alice Deverell + Norman Gilbert >Marcia Gilbert > >I am preparing the paperwork for this line to be submitted as a >supplemental - any comments or cousins out there? >Marcia B. > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ All-in-one security and maintenance for your PC.  Get a free 90-day trial! http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000002msn/direct/01/?href=http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwlo0050000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://www.windowsonecare.com/?sc_cid=msn_hotmail

Hello: I am from the Henry Samson line--but through the Hillmans. Are you interested? Eleen Robinson [email protected]

Henry Samson + Ann Plummer Elizabeth Samson + Robert Sprout Mercy Sprout + Thomas Oldham (Jr.) Mercy Oldham + Andrew Newcomb Mercy Newcomb + John Brown William Brown + Temperance Hinckley Zilpha Brown + Samuel Whorf George Whorf + Sarah Ghen Zilpha Whorf + Julius Churchill (Richard Warren, John Billington, Francis Cooke) Carrie Lee Churchill + Amos Carpenter (Thomas Rogers) Millie Carpenter + Arthur Deverell Alice Deverell + Norman Gilbert Marcia Gilbert I am preparing the paperwork for this line to be submitted as a supplemental - any comments or cousins out there? Marcia B.

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At 06:17 PM 11/26/2006, Susan Masse wrote: >Is this a real controversy? I haven't heard of this before. I am >relatively new to genealogy compared to many members of the list, but >since Hopkins is my "famous ancestor" I do try to keep up on what new >scholarship comes up. I don't see any real controversy. The evidence was set forth by Caleb Johnson in "The True Origin of Stephen^1 Hopkins of the Mayflower, With Evidence of His Earlier Presence in Virginia" (TAG, 73 [1998]:161-171). Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml

If you'd like to read a detailed account of Stephen's time in Jamestown, as well as his Mayflower exploits and life, go to: http://www.mccarterfamily.com/mccarterpage/stories/stephen_hopkins/intro.htm r/ -------------- Original message -------------- From: Terry Reigel <[email protected]> > On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 15:17:46 -0800, Susan Masse wrote: > > In his review of Nathaniel Philbrick's _Mayflower: A > > Story of Courage, Community, and War_, (found on > > amazon.com)Stuart Bloom, Earlville, IL United States, > > says: > > > > "In his discussion of Stephen Hopkins, the Mayflower > > passenger, he says, bluntly, that the man of that name > > who was a passenger on the Mayflower is the same Stephen > > Hopkins who sailed to Jamestown, with an unplanned stop > > in Bermuda, in 1609. > > Did Philbrick actually say that? As I recall, he mentioned the > "unplanned stop in Bermuda" only because the account of it described > the threat to the Mayflower as it attempted to sail south from Cape > Cod. Or have I confused it with another event? > > Terry Reigel > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

On Sun, 26 Nov 2006 15:17:46 -0800, Susan Masse wrote: > In his review of Nathaniel Philbrick's _Mayflower: A > Story of Courage, Community, and War_, (found on > amazon.com)Stuart Bloom, Earlville, IL United States, > says: > > "In his discussion of Stephen Hopkins, the Mayflower > passenger, he says, bluntly, that the man of that name > who was a passenger on the Mayflower is the same Stephen > Hopkins who sailed to Jamestown, with an unplanned stop > in Bermuda, in 1609. Did Philbrick actually say that? As I recall, he mentioned the "unplanned stop in Bermuda" only because the account of it described the threat to the Mayflower as it attempted to sail south from Cape Cod. Or have I confused it with another event? Terry Reigel

I looked for the Stuart Bloom review on amazon.com, but I couldn't find it. Does he have credentials as a reviewer from a newspaper or journal? Since the Jamestowne Society accepts Stephen Hopkins for membership, why does Stuart Bloom dispute that? Karen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Susan Masse Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 6:18 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [MFLR] Hopkins -- Jamestown AND Mayflower? In his review of Nathaniel Philbrick's _Mayflower: A Story of Courage, Community, and War_, (found on amazon.com)Stuart Bloom, Earlville, IL United States, says: "In his discussion of Stephen Hopkins, the Mayflower passenger, he says, bluntly, that the man of that name who was a passenger on the Mayflower is the same Stephen Hopkins who sailed to Jamestown, with an unplanned stop in Bermuda, in 1609. Now there is circumstantial evidence to support that, but it is far from the established historical fact that Philbrick implies." " . . .One would think that one could refer to the notes to find Philbrick's source for this claim. But the notes are a mess. They are in narrative form, more of a summary of sources, with no indication of what source supports what statement in the text." Is this a real controversy? I haven't heard of this before. I am relatively new to genealogy compared to many members of the list, but since Hopkins is my "famous ancestor" I do try to keep up on what new scholarship comes up. Susan Wallace Masse Hopkins, Snow, Paine, Cross, Erwin, Newton ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I think it's time to give it up. It's not possible to change anyone's mind once he/she has a mindset, no matter how many sources are quoted. And by the way, I did not start this thread, although I did give my opinion. Some of the list members seem to think I did; please stop emailing me. Karen -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Suzanne Marsh Sent: Sunday, November 26, 2006 6:06 PM To: [email protected] Subject: Re: [MFLR] Desperate Crossing According to both the World Health Organization and NIH, smallpox can be transmitted through infected bedding and clothing, although the risk is lower than face to face contact. Hospitals routinely autoclave bedding that has been used by smallpox (and chickenpox) sufferers. Suzanne [email protected] wrote: Just got off a 24 hour shift as a volunteer EMT for a rescue squad. In EMT class right off the bat in our Bloodborne Pathogens class the instructor said that smallpox CANNOT live in a blanket and it was not possible to spread it that way. Period. Gail Adams Virginia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away." - Chuang Tzu --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Just got off a 24 hour shift as a volunteer EMT for a rescue squad. In EMT class right off the bat in our Bloodborne Pathogens class the instructor said that smallpox CANNOT live in a blanket and it was not possible to spread it that way. Period. Gail Adams Virginia

In his review of Nathaniel Philbrick's _Mayflower: A Story of Courage, Community, and War_, (found on amazon.com)Stuart Bloom, Earlville, IL United States, says: "In his discussion of Stephen Hopkins, the Mayflower passenger, he says, bluntly, that the man of that name who was a passenger on the Mayflower is the same Stephen Hopkins who sailed to Jamestown, with an unplanned stop in Bermuda, in 1609. Now there is circumstantial evidence to support that, but it is far from the established historical fact that Philbrick implies." " . . .One would think that one could refer to the notes to find Philbrick's source for this claim. But the notes are a mess. They are in narrative form, more of a summary of sources, with no indication of what source supports what statement in the text." Is this a real controversy? I haven't heard of this before. I am relatively new to genealogy compared to many members of the list, but since Hopkins is my "famous ancestor" I do try to keep up on what new scholarship comes up. Susan Wallace Masse Hopkins, Snow, Paine, Cross, Erwin, Newton

According to both the World Health Organization and NIH, smallpox can be transmitted through infected bedding and clothing, although the risk is lower than face to face contact. Hospitals routinely autoclave bedding that has been used by smallpox (and chickenpox) sufferers. Suzanne [email protected] wrote: Just got off a 24 hour shift as a volunteer EMT for a rescue squad. In EMT class right off the bat in our Bloodborne Pathogens class the instructor said that smallpox CANNOT live in a blanket and it was not possible to spread it that way. Period. Gail Adams Virginia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message "We cling to our own point of view, as though everything depended on it. Yet our opinions have no permanence; like autumn and winter, they gradually pass away." - Chuang Tzu --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

To contact any disease conditions have to be just right. In my microbiology course we were told that microorganisms (mo's) are around every day. However the way the body responds everyday is different. Most days nothing will happen, then another day goes by and you're sick. This is not written in stone, but makes sense. Then there is immunity. The Native American's didn't have immunity to many of the diseases the Europeans carried around with them. http://www.cfsph.iastate.edu/diseaseinfo/ppt/SmallpoxMonkeypox.ppt - is a powerpoint presentation on smallpox. It's graphic so if you're squeamish don't watch it. It has pictures of what smallpox looks like. It also talks about it's history and the transmission of the disease. Stefanie

The Elizabeth Cooke who married John Doty was the granddaughter of Francis Cooke and Hester Mahieu and the daughter of Jacob Cooke and Damaris Hopkins. In the Francis Cooke Vol. 12 (Silver Book) on pg 17-18, the family is followed in the MF Doty Family Vol 11. Dianna Digging Up Roots -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Noreen LaTour Sent: Tuesday, November 21, 2006 3:43 PM To: [email protected] Subject: [MFLR] Elizabeth Cook Doty,wife of John Doty Attention : David Sylvester of Seaport,ME You stated that you're a descendant of Mayflower passenger Edward Doty through his son John and John's wife Elizabeth Cook.I was wondering if this Elizabeth Cooke was the daughter of Mayflower passenger Francis Cooke and his wife Hester Mahieu. The dates I have for the Elizabeth who was the daughter of Francis and Hester are as follows:born Dec.26,1611 in Leyden,Holland and died before May 22,1627 prob. in or near Plymouth,MA I have no other information on her. I descended from Francis and Hester through 2 of thier children,John who came on the Mayflower with his father and Hester. John married Sarah Warren,daughter of Mayflower passenger Richard Warrren. Their daughter was named Elizabeth,after her aunt Elizabeth I metioned above.She married Daniel Wilcox. Elizabeth and Daniel Wilcox's great granddaughter Elizaabeth Wilcox married Joshua Gifford. Hester Cooke,the sister of the above mentioned John,married Richard Wright.Their son Adam married Sarah Soule,grand daughter of Mayflower passenger and indentured servant George Soule.Adam & Sarah had a daughter Mary who married Jeremiah Gifford. Mary & Jeremiah were the parents of Sarah Gifford. Sarah gave birth to Joshua Gifford out of wedlock and it was this Joshua who married the above mentioned Elizabeth Wilcox. >From Joshua & Elizabeth to me the line goes as follows: Rueben Gifford I Rueben Gifford II Susan Gifford Maria Levanway,my great grandmother Luman Osborn,my maternal grandfather Patricia Osborne,my mother,who also is now deceased. And on to stepson, my 2 daughters and my 2 granddaughters. aI'm interested in any information you have on Elizabeth Cook Doty if she is indeed the Elizabeth who was the daughter of Francis & Hester Cooke as I'm sure she must be. If she is the same Elizabeth then you and I would be indirectly related/distantly related. I'm trying to keep all the info on both mty direct and indirect relations. Thanks in advance for all your help. Noreen Maloney LaTour Burlington,Vermont ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Many white people had an immunity to smallpox as they had been around it before. Some had it. If they didn't die, they then had an immunity to future outbreaks. Colleen joyce moore <[email protected]> wrote: Jeremy, thank you for the website. As a nurse myself I have always wondered how they managed to infect just the indians when everyone should have the disease, plus the fact that the virus would not live long enough to transport the blankets, etc. A few people have a natural immunity to smallpox, but the rest have to be vaccinated, and that was not available back then. It would have been suicide for everyone involved. Joyce Moore [email protected] wrote: In response to: MsTigerHawk wrote: >Don't forget about all the Native Americans who died of smallpox after having been given smallpox-infested blankets by the white soldiers. This is what they were told to do by the government. Just another incidence of genocide. > > Colleen =================== There is one case only that has given rise to this generalization - the case of Major Amherst during the French and Indian War. While Major Amherst approved the suggestion that infected blankets be used to infect Indians, there is no evidence that the attempt was carried out. There is no evidence of any other such attempt. Further, it is considered impossible to use intermediary objects such as blankets to transmit the disease, which is passed person to person. I read an article on the medical aspects of this a few years ago, written by physicians at Boston's Massachusetts General Hospital, but I've forgotten where. They explained the impossibility of such an attempt's being effective, because of the need to maintain a hospitable environment for whatever organism carries the disease. For an informative discussion of the matter (a discussion that predates that article), see: http://www.h-net.msu.edu/~west/threads/disc-smallpox.html The wide generalization of a doubtful case is a kind of rhetoric that unfortunately appears in numerous diatribes against all the colonists including the Pilgrims. The accusation has nothing to do with them. The Pilgrims attempted to get along with their immediate neighbors, and they managed to do so for more than half a century. Jeremy Bangs ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ********************************************************** Don't miss this website if you like to read. --------------------------------- Cheap Talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates.