-----Original Message----- >From: [email protected] Not every soldier who served applied and received bounty land >warrants;not every soldier applied for a pension. Christie makes a very good point. The qualifications for receiving a pension varied tremendously over time, becoming much more liberal as the number of surviving veterans diminished and recognition of their strength as a voting block increased. [cynic? me?] Initially officers, drawn from the upper class of course, got generous pensions and not many others got anything. In time the pension was offered to those who served a year or more (tremendous numbers of veterans served for maybe a day or two--it makes a difference whether it's militia service or continental army), but need had to be demonstrated, and by need they really meant need. So veterans who were comfortably off, meaning they knew where their next meal was coming from, may not show up. [That is, not show up unless they were trying to commit fraud, which was apparently a considerable problem for the government.] So unless your ancestor was an officer or a widow of a soldier killed in the war, your best shot is if he survived in extreme poverty for a long time.

-----Original Message----- >From: Ruy Cardoso <[email protected]> >Incidentally, I note that the pension info at HQ can >be quite limited in individual cases. As always, Ruy is exactly right. There are different film collections. There is M804, which contains all the records in the applicant's file. There is also M805, which contains a much more limited group of documents in the file deemed to be of genealogical value, and to the best of my knowledge this is what HQ uses. (By the way, there are also Bounty Land Warrant files which are distinct from the pension files and can be very useful. Land was available, eventually, to heirs, and so the genealogical value is obvious.) I could explain further, but since I'd doubtless get it wrong, it would be better to do a Google or other search using these numbers and find sites that explain in detail. The differences in the files can be significant. The M805 file for my ancestor Moses Wright, A Cooke descendant, does include the basic genealogical information. The M804 file for Moses is four times as long, about 40 pages, and they are legal size pages and contain more per page than the file found at HQ. In the M804 file I discovered that there was a question as to whether Moses had been involved in a land fraud. The file contained many pages of affidavits testifying that many people knew Moses very well and did swear before a judge that Moses was far too simple-minded to have understood and participated in this fraud, let alone contrive it. Genealogy is not for the faint of heart.

At 10:27 PM 12/4/2006, Ruy Cardoso wrote: >Alas, he does not appear to be listed in Heritage >Quest (HQ) under the Revolutionary War pension info, >nor does he appear in the Index to Revolutionary War >Pension Applications published in NGSQ back in 1943. He also does not appear in my copy of the DAR Patriot Index. I do not have Berthold Fernow, "New York in the Revolution" (Albany, NY: 1887) which is cited as a source in the MF6 entry for Thatcher's family. That entry, for Thatcher's father, Jonathan Sr., says that "The DAR has credited Jonathan Hopkins Sr. with Revolutionary War service as a private from New York. Serving in the same company of a Dutchess Co. Regt. were Jonathan, Joseph, Thatcher and Thomas Hopkins." Of all of those family members MF6 cites a pension application only for Jonathan Jr. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml

> From: [email protected] > Subject: Re: [MFLR] Thatcher Hopkins help / look up > > If you know the unit he belongs to, you need to get > the NARA films for the soldiers of that unit. Strictly speaking, we're getting away from Mayflower genealogy, so let me just offer a quick clarification to Christie's comment above. If you're looking for an ancestor's Revolutionary War *pension* file, then you do not need to know what unit the soldier was in, only the file number from the index I mentioned in my previous email. If you have access to a NARA regional office, the process is pretty easy. As Christie also noted, the pension file is far more likely to have useful genealogical information than muster rolls and the like. Ruy Cardoso ____________________________________________________________________________________ Want to start your own business? Learn how on Yahoo! Small Business. http://smallbusiness.yahoo.com/r-index

I too have found a difference with what you get on HQ for the Revolutionary War soldiers. I know for sure they don't put up every single document that might be available. If you know the unit he belongs to, you need to get the NARA films for the soldiers of that unit. It's been awhile since I've researched revolutionary war stuff, so I forget the film series and that sort of thing, but I'm sure you can find it either by going to the National Archives nearest where you live or checking on line at the NARA website. But, if you have found the person on the HQ, by going to the NARA website you can order copies of the entire file. It's been awhile and I know the fees have jumped considerably much, so you have to weigh your options as to whether it is worth it to you to get the pay and muster stuff and maybe the pension stuff. It is the pension stuff, if it is available that will be of value as it will be the applications and whether or not they received bounty lands or not. Be aware that sometimes all you will ever get from NARA will be pay and muster rolls. Not every soldier who served applied and received bounty land warrants;not every soldier applied for a pension. They served their time and went home and their service was completed. Christie Trapp

Hello, I am trying to discover the parents of the Jonathan Bangs of Harwich, Barnstable, Massachusetts born before June 29th 1745. He married Deborah---and had children, Jonathan, Willard, Ezekial,Thankful (born 12 July 1774 in Brewster, Mass) and Deborah. At some point after 1777, he moved to Maine and married widow Rebecca Skillings Babb. They lived in Buxton, Maine. Jonathan's daughter Thankful married Rebecca's son Peter Babb. They are my 4th great grandparents. My problem is that McLellan's History of Gorham, Maine says this Jonathan Bangs is the son of Barnabus Bangs (11 March, 1727/28 - 29 January 1808). But the dates don't match up, and I haven't found a marriage for Barnabus prior to his 1751 marriage to Loruhama Elwell in Falmouth, Maine. It seems likely that Jonathan is a brother, not a son of Barnabus. That would make Jonathan's parents Ann Sears and Ebenezer Bangs. Is there anything that will help me with a positive identification? Thank you, Margaret

"Dale H. Cook" <[email protected]> wrote: > > Since he was of the sixth generation, MF6: Hopkins > does not show his children, but shows [snip] that he > served in the Revolutionary War. [email protected] followed up with: > Thatcher, b. 1754, [snip]. He died July 7,1830 > aged 76 years. Alas, he does not appear to be listed in Heritage Quest (HQ) under the Revolutionary War pension info, nor does he appear in the Index to Revolutionary War Pension Applications published in NGSQ back in 1943. He did, however, live long enough that he could have received a pension if he was otherwise qualified. Perhaps he was financially comfortable enough not to need one. Incidentally, I note that the pension info at HQ can be quite limited in individual cases. In at least two or three that I've examined, there was far more genealogical information in the full pension file than in the images that appear in HQ, though the HQ images usually seem to contain the pension applicant's affidavit. Ruy Cardoso ____________________________________________________________________________________ Cheap talk? Check out Yahoo! Messenger's low PC-to-Phone call rates. http://voice.yahoo.com

Norman..that is correct. First wife was as stated,dau., of Wm. Myrick. No other info/., on Sarah. Second wife Mercy was a widow,of Plymouth. My source is called " The Freemans-The Eastham Branch Of The Sandwich Family-Major John Freeman". I think there are other documents about the Freemans as well. Your John (3) and my Edmond (3) were brothers. Arthur. >From: "Norman V. James" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors >Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 06:22:10 -0500 > >Arthur, >Maybe I am reading your post wrong but it seems you are saying John 3 >married both Sarah M and Mercy W. >Norm > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Arthur Small" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:36 PM >Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors > > > > John (3) was born SEPT. 1651, marr.Sarah Myrick 12/18/1672 and 2nd. > > Mercy > > Watson of Plymouth. She died 9/27/1721--age 57. Son John(4) was born > > July > > 1678, so John (3) was 26 when his son was born..a reasonable age. > > > > > >>From: "Norman V. James" <[email protected]> > >>Reply-To: [email protected] > >>To: <[email protected]> > >>Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors > >>Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 07:43:25 -0500 > >> > >>Christie, > >>Another date that bothers me is the birth date I was given for John > >>Freeman.If he was born 2-3-1665;He had to have his son John when he > >>was > >>13.Son was born 7-1678.Cant be right. > >>Norm > >>----- Original Message ----- > >>From: <[email protected]> > >>To: <[email protected]> > >>Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 3:11 PM > >>Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors > >> > >> > >> > > >> > In a message dated 11/30/2006 7:47:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > >> > [email protected] writes: > >> > > >> > 15-Me 1937- > >> > Wife-Ernestine 1939 > >> > 5 children & 13 grandchildren. > >> > 12-Jonathan A James > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > Who is 12 - Jonathan A. James? Is he really generation 13? > >> > > >> > Who is the ME in generation 12? Are you Norman V. -- being a > >> > Junior? > >> > > >> > Mercy Prence 1639-1711 MF#27345 > >> > John Freeman 1625-1719 > >> > John Freeman 1665 MF#13260 > >> > John Freeman 1678-1767 MF#13261 > >> > Mercy Watson 1683-1745 > >> > > >> > > >> > I'm a bit confused by the dates of birth you list for both Mercy > >> > Prence and > >> > John Freeman. For Mercy I have bef 28 Sept 1631 and you give a > >> > date 8 > >> > years > >> > later. Where did you get that year? For John I have about 1622, > >> > you > >> > gave > >> > 1625. Where did you get that year? > >> > > >> > You didn't list a wife for their son John Freeman and the year of > >> > death is > >> > not what I have found. You say John Freeman died 1665. I have 27 > >> > July 1721. > >> > Could this 1665 date be for some other child? His wife's name - > >> > and > >> > he had > >> > two, but the one you need is Sarah Merrick. > >> > > >> > <It was really strange that all lines descended to Nicholas King & > >> > Lydia > >> > Barlow and followed on to myself.> Yeap. That's the way it > >> > usually > >> > works! > >> > > >> > Christie Trapp > >> > > >> > ------------------------------- > >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without > >> > the > >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >> > > >> > >> > >> > >>------------------------------- > >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > > Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio > > powered > > by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 > > > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe [email protected] from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe [email protected] from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Talk now to your Hotmail contacts with Windows Live Messenger. http://clk.atdmt.com/MSN/go/msnnkwme0020000001msn/direct/01/?href=http://get.live.com/messenger/overview

[email protected] wrote: >>Thatcher Hopkins, b. 1754 ish, Cronton, NY area,  married Eleanor (Ragan?) searching for children of this Thatcher Hopkins,  and if Eleanor was his only wife << Here are some clues to follow up..... Page 11. Joseph and Mary (Mayo) Hopkins...... Jonathan, the fourth child, b. Harwick, Dec. 17, 1719/20...He married Eastham, Oct. 4, 1744, Rebecca, dau. of Capt. Joseph and Lydia (Thatcher) Freeman.......she died Carmel, Jan. 15, 1801, aged 81....... moved about 1755, to "the oblong" now a part of Putnam County, NY. of their 11 children......Thatcher, b. 1754, m. Eleanor, b. Pawling, Nov. 7, 1754, dau. of Thomas and Deborah (Benedict) Ragan. She d. March 24, 1786 age 30 years (buried Gilead). He married 2. Mary __________. He died July 7,1830 aged 76 years. She died Feb. 17th, 1839, aged 84 years, 8 months. Hillside Cemetery, Peekskill. He was a tanner and shoemaker. Source: The Descendants of Elisha Cole: who came from Cape Cod to what is now Putnam County, New York about 1745.Compiled by John O. Curtis, New York. 1909 * * * * * * * There is also a Ancestry World Tree (and probably a WorldConnect Tree, updated on 11-15-06, with excellent sources (NEHGS Register, Mayflower Families Through 5 Generations, the DAR Patriot Index). It might be worth contacting the author to compare notes. That particular tree doesn't list children for him, but several others do. To find the best ones, go to WorldConnect or Ancestry World Tree and put in Jonathan Hopkins....then scroll to the bottom of the page and put in Rebecca Freeman for his spouse. Click on the little box to show only the ones with sources. You can also click on boxes to show only trees with notes and/or descendants. Then scroll through the resulting "hits" looking for the ones with the best sources. Hope this helps, Dianne

At 02:19 PM 12/4/2006, D. wrote: >Thatcher Hopkins, b. 1754 ish, Cronton, NY area, married Eleanor (Ragan?) >searching for children of this Thatcher Hopkins, and if Eleanor was his only >wife Since he was of the sixth generation, MF6: Hopkins does not show his children, but shows that was b. abt. 1755, probably in that part of what was then Dutchess Co. which is now Putnam Co., NY; that he m. 1st Eleanor Ragan; that he m. 2nd Mary (___) Green; and that he served in the Revolutionary War. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml

Hello. I was hoping someone would help with what I have below: Starting from the bottom, going up, would appreciate any book look-ups for children of Thatcher Hopkins. Stephen Hopkins (of Mayflower) Joseph Hopkins, b. 1688 Eastham, Mass., married Mary Mayo Jonathan Hopkins, b. Dec.17, 1719 or 1720 Harwick(Harwich?) Mass and Rebecca Freeman Thatcher Hopkins, b. 1754 ish, Cronton, NY area, married Eleanor (Ragan?) searching for children of this Thatcher Hopkins, and if Eleanor was his only wife Thank you

Check out our site - the Canadian Society of Mayflower Descendants (address below) where you will find Documentation Requirements, listing the sources needed to prove a Mayflower lineage. These requirements are the same for every state society. Susan E. Roser Historian Canadian Society www.rootsweb.com/~canms/canada.html ________________ Hello. Does anybody know if the Mayflower Society accepts proof from the LDS site? If not, what exactly do they need as proof? Would an old newspaper article help? Thank you. D.

At 11:36 PM 12/3/2006, D. wrote: >Does anybody know the children of Thatcher Hopkins, and would you kindly let >me know? >If you also know who they married, I'd appreciate this info. When and where? Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml

Arthur, Maybe I am reading your post wrong but it seems you are saying John 3 married both Sarah M and Mercy W. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Small" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors > John (3) was born SEPT. 1651, marr.Sarah Myrick 12/18/1672 and 2nd. > Mercy > Watson of Plymouth. She died 9/27/1721--age 57. Son John(4) was born > July > 1678, so John (3) was 26 when his son was born..a reasonable age. > > >>From: "Norman V. James" <[email protected]> >>Reply-To: [email protected] >>To: <[email protected]> >>Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors >>Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 07:43:25 -0500 >> >>Christie, >>Another date that bothers me is the birth date I was given for John >>Freeman.If he was born 2-3-1665;He had to have his son John when he >>was >>13.Son was born 7-1678.Cant be right. >>Norm >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: <[email protected]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 3:11 PM >>Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors >> >> >> > >> > In a message dated 11/30/2006 7:47:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, >> > [email protected] writes: >> > >> > 15-Me 1937- >> > Wife-Ernestine 1939 >> > 5 children & 13 grandchildren. >> > 12-Jonathan A James >> > >> > >> > >> > Who is 12 - Jonathan A. James? Is he really generation 13? >> > >> > Who is the ME in generation 12? Are you Norman V. -- being a >> > Junior? >> > >> > Mercy Prence 1639-1711 MF#27345 >> > John Freeman 1625-1719 >> > John Freeman 1665 MF#13260 >> > John Freeman 1678-1767 MF#13261 >> > Mercy Watson 1683-1745 >> > >> > >> > I'm a bit confused by the dates of birth you list for both Mercy >> > Prence and >> > John Freeman. For Mercy I have bef 28 Sept 1631 and you give a >> > date 8 >> > years >> > later. Where did you get that year? For John I have about 1622, >> > you >> > gave >> > 1625. Where did you get that year? >> > >> > You didn't list a wife for their son John Freeman and the year of >> > death is >> > not what I have found. You say John Freeman died 1665. I have 27 >> > July 1721. >> > Could this 1665 date be for some other child? His wife's name - >> > and >> > he had >> > two, but the one you need is Sarah Merrick. >> > >> > <It was really strange that all lines descended to Nicholas King & >> > Lydia >> > Barlow and followed on to myself.> Yeap. That's the way it >> > usually >> > works! >> > >> > Christie Trapp >> > >> > ------------------------------- >> > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without >> > the >> > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio > powered > by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe [email protected] from the list, please send an email to > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

D, If you are speaking of the IGI, no it does not accept any information from their as proof. The IGI itself says it shouldn't be accepted as fact but used as clues. You can contact your state society and they will tell you what they will accept as proof. Stefanie

Stefanie is correct (in general) with regards to the IGI. The same goes for both the Ancestral File and Pedigree Resource File the LDS church publishes on its website (www.familysearch.org) That being said, in SOME cases, the IGI may lead you to primary evidence which WILL be accepted by the Mayflower Society. The LDS Church has microfilmed many primary records across the globe (vital records of towns comes immediately to mind). The IGI [International Genealogical INDEX] does index many of these microfilmed records. In many cases you can determine the source from where the IGI found the record by clicking the "Source Call No.:" found at the bottom of the page. In addition, if you go to a LDS stake library, they have a form you can fill out to rent a copy of the microfilm with the original record (for a modest fee). While the film must stay at the library, almost all of them have the capability for you to obtain a photocopy of the microfilm record, which you can submit to the Mayflower Society. Raymond T. Wing Genealogist, Wing Family of America, Inc. [WFA] www.wingfamily.org

John (3) was born SEPT. 1651, marr.Sarah Myrick 12/18/1672 and 2nd. Mercy Watson of Plymouth. She died 9/27/1721--age 57. Son John(4) was born July 1678, so John (3) was 26 when his son was born..a reasonable age. >From: "Norman V. James" <[email protected]> >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: <[email protected]> >Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors >Date: Fri, 1 Dec 2006 07:43:25 -0500 > >Christie, >Another date that bothers me is the birth date I was given for John >Freeman.If he was born 2-3-1665;He had to have his son John when he was >13.Son was born 7-1678.Cant be right. >Norm >----- Original Message ----- >From: <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Thursday, November 30, 2006 3:11 PM >Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors > > > > > > In a message dated 11/30/2006 7:47:04 A.M. Pacific Standard Time, > > [email protected] writes: > > > > 15-Me 1937- > > Wife-Ernestine 1939 > > 5 children & 13 grandchildren. > > 12-Jonathan A James > > > > > > > > Who is 12 - Jonathan A. James? Is he really generation 13? > > > > Who is the ME in generation 12? Are you Norman V. -- being a Junior? > > > > Mercy Prence 1639-1711 MF#27345 > > John Freeman 1625-1719 > > John Freeman 1665 MF#13260 > > John Freeman 1678-1767 MF#13261 > > Mercy Watson 1683-1745 > > > > > > I'm a bit confused by the dates of birth you list for both Mercy > > Prence and > > John Freeman. For Mercy I have bef 28 Sept 1631 and you give a date 8 > > years > > later. Where did you get that year? For John I have about 1622, you > > gave > > 1625. Where did you get that year? > > > > You didn't list a wife for their son John Freeman and the year of > > death is > > not what I have found. You say John Freeman died 1665. I have 27 > > July 1721. > > Could this 1665 date be for some other child? His wife's name - and > > he had > > two, but the one you need is Sarah Merrick. > > > > <It was really strange that all lines descended to Nicholas King & > > Lydia > > Barlow and followed on to myself.> Yeap. That's the way it usually > > works! > > > > Christie Trapp > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > > [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001

Does anybody know the children of Thatcher Hopkins, and would you kindly let me know? If you also know who they married, I'd appreciate this info. If anybody has a silver book, I'm asking for a look-up please? Thank you. D.

Hello. Does anybody know if the Mayflower Society accepts proof from the LDS site? If not, what exactly do they need as proof? Would an old newspaper article help? Thank you. D.