My John Freeman was born around 1600 in England and died in 1648 in Sudbury MA. He married Elizabeth Noyes circa 1643 in Sudbury MA. Elizabeth Noyes was born circa 1625 in Weyhill, Hampshire, England and baptized April 19, 1625 at the same place. I descend from their son Sergeant Joseph Freeman who was born March 29, 1645 in Sudbury MA and died Feb 2, 1697/98 in Preston CT. Colleen Arthur Small <[email protected]> wrote: Actually there are too many Johns and too much Mercy. --(Major) John is the son of Edmund(b.abt.1590), if that's "your john" . If so, you are "related". He's also my John, as is his son..Edmund/Edmond who married Sarah Mayo. Regards,Arthur,one of the many cousins. >From: MsTigerHawk >Reply-To: [email protected] >To: [email protected] >Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors >Date: Fri, 8 Dec 2006 05:17:51 -0800 (PST) > >There are too many John Freemans. There were at least three on the ship >Abigail and there has been some confusion whether they were all related or >not. My John Freeman was on that ship and I had thought he was the son of >Edmund Freeman, but apparently there is doubt as to whether that's true. > > Colleen > > >[email protected] wrote: > Ok all you Mayflower detectives get this one straight. > >John Freeman (Dec 1651 - 27 June 1721) m. [1] Eastham 8 Dec 1672, Sarah >Merrick (Christened 1 Aug 1654 - 21 April 1696) He m. [2] Mercy Hedges (b. >bef 4 July 1659 - d. 27 Sep 1721). Mercy was the widow of Elkanah Watson >and their 3rd child was Mercy Watson - please remember this name.) > >John and Sarah's 3rd child - John Freeman (July 1678 - 1767) m. Eastham >1701, Mercy Watson (Oct 1683 - 25 Dec 1768). Now John, son of John has >married Mercy, daughter of Mercy. Mrs. Mercy Watson being the second wife >of John Freeman (1651) and step mother of John Freeman (1678). To make a >long store shorter John married his step-sister, oh what a tangled web we >spin for love. (This is part of one of my lines) > >I only lurk in the background but like to jump in from time to time. > >As to Jamestown and Plymouth my granddaughter is a Bass, a direct >descendant of Mr. Bass Founder of Jamestown and holder of the patent signed >by King James and also descendant of at least 16 of the adult passengers on >the Mayflower. > >Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All! > >Bob Trapp >(husband to Christie [my 10th cousin] and cousin to most of you out there) > > >Message: 2 >Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 06:22:10 -0500 >From: "Norman V. James" >Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors >To: >Message-ID: <[email protected]> >Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >reply-type=original > >Arthur, >Maybe I am reading your post wrong but it seems you are saying John 3 >married both Sarah M and Mercy W. >Norm > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Arthur Small" >To: >Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:36 PM >Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors > > > > John (3) was born SEPT. 1651, marr.Sarah Myrick 12/18/1672 and 2nd. > > Mercy > > Watson of Plymouth. She died 9/27/1721--age 57. Son John(4) was born > > July > > 1678, so John (3) was 26 when his son was born..a reasonable age. >________________________________________________________________________ >Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security >tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, >free AOL Mail and more. > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > >********************************************************** >Don't miss this website if you like to read. > >--------------------------------- >Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited. > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message _________________________________________________________________ Get free, personalized commercial-free online radio with MSN Radio powered by Pandora http://radio.msn.com/?icid=T002MSN03A07001 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ********************************************************** Don't miss this website if you like to read. --------------------------------- Everyone is raving about the all-new Yahoo! Mail beta.

I live in Newport, Rhode Island, which is considered one of the sailing capitols of the world. For decades and decades, America held the "America's Cup" trophy. The America's Cup Race was held off coast of Newport, Rhode Island, which I believe started back in the 1800's. We lost to Australia back in 1984 I believe, however, I wanted to point out to any "Paine" decendants or "Burgess" decendants that they were captains on ships for the America's Cup Sailing Challenge. Much information below in the Connecticut Mystic Seaport library. _http://www.mysticseaport.org/library/initiative/ImPage.cfm?BibID=8615&Cha pterId=1_ (http://www.mysticseaport.org/library/initiative/ImPage.cfm?BibID=8615&ChapterId=1)

Thank you for going into more detail about that. Some of this I did not know but people tend to sometimes be too technical in genealogy when speaking of land and states and counties etc. More people should look at maps and/or renderings of the United States back in the 1600-1700's and even up to the 1800's. There was like the North, South and the West which consisted of nothing much past Illinois and Indiana really. I'm exaggerating obviously but thank you for reminding me and everyone else that Virginia was not the state we know it as now. Janean -----Original Message----- From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of James Crippen Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 7:29 PM To: Robert Luce; [email protected] Subject: Re: [MFLR] Connection of Mayflower Passengers with Jamestown, Virginia Carole Kennedy: The "Crossings" movie touched lightly on what King James in England considered the Crown's lands in America at the time of the Pilgrims crossing.. Think of Florida as settled by Spain and present Nova Scotia as settled by the French.. England considered some point north of Florida as the southernmost point of "Virginia" and argued for all the land north to the St Laurence River.. All American crown land initally was known as "Virginia". Remember that land, for the most part, in Europe and Britian was crown owned , not individual owned. (Not to get too far off track, but early New York State was settled under this burger principal, huge land grants as opposed to individual plots.) The crown granted the Plymouth colony backers a colony position somewhere in Northern Virginia. This should give you a concept of how poorly the vastness of America was understood in Europe and Britian and also a remarkable appreciation for the seamanship of this Mayflower crew. They landed near one of the few known landmarks of "Northern Virginia", the cape, although their goal was closer to the Hudson River they did settle west of the cape. Think of the east coast of America as having Nova Scotia, Virginia and Florida. I know there are more details germane to the discussion and surely some quasi geography professor will summon up the courage to describe the Pilgrims quest in more detail, soon. This Nova Scotia, Virginia, Florida principle will hold until defeated. Incidentally, the Nova Scotia area was held initally by the French so you had French America, British America and Spanish America. The French and Indian War some few years later resolved borders more along the lines as we know them today. The F & I War also displaced the French from Nova Scotia who re-settled in Louisianna. While your question may be elementary it has not been addressed in some time. We get a few more "newbie" Mayflower family scholars each year with varing levels of geographic expertise. Ask away. We are all here to help. Regards, JC3 ----- Original Message ----- From: Robert Luce <[email protected]> Date: Sunday, December 3, 2006 8:53 am Subject: Re: [MFLR] Connection of Mayflower Passengers with Jamestown, Virginia To: "[email protected]" <[email protected]> > The pilgrims original destination was indeed Virginia, however, not > the Virginia we think of today. They had planned to start a settlement > on the very northern boundary of what was then called Virginia, the > southern bank of the Hudson River. > > Saturday, December 2, 2006, 5:23:52 PM, you wrote: > > > I've read that the original destination of the Mayflower was > Virginia rather > > than Plymouth. > > > I'm sorry to ask such an elementary question, but were there > family > > connections between the early Virginia settlers and Plymouth > Colony settlers? > > > Thanks, > > > Carol Kennedy > > -- > Robert Luce <[email protected]> > On ne voit bien qu'avec le coeur. > L'essentiel est invisible pour les yeux. > -Antoine de Saint Exupéry > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe [email protected] from the list, please send an > email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' > without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > ------------------------------- To unsubscribe [email protected] from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

There are too many John Freemans. There were at least three on the ship Abigail and there has been some confusion whether they were all related or not. My John Freeman was on that ship and I had thought he was the son of Edmund Freeman, but apparently there is doubt as to whether that's true. Colleen [email protected] wrote: Ok all you Mayflower detectives get this one straight. John Freeman (Dec 1651 - 27 June 1721) m. [1] Eastham 8 Dec 1672, Sarah Merrick (Christened 1 Aug 1654 - 21 April 1696) He m. [2] Mercy Hedges (b. bef 4 July 1659 - d. 27 Sep 1721). Mercy was the widow of Elkanah Watson and their 3rd child was Mercy Watson - please remember this name.) John and Sarah's 3rd child - John Freeman (July 1678 - 1767) m. Eastham 1701, Mercy Watson (Oct 1683 - 25 Dec 1768). Now John, son of John has married Mercy, daughter of Mercy. Mrs. Mercy Watson being the second wife of John Freeman (1651) and step mother of John Freeman (1678). To make a long store shorter John married his step-sister, oh what a tangled web we spin for love. (This is part of one of my lines) I only lurk in the background but like to jump in from time to time. As to Jamestown and Plymouth my granddaughter is a Bass, a direct descendant of Mr. Bass Founder of Jamestown and holder of the patent signed by King James and also descendant of at least 16 of the adult passengers on the Mayflower. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All! Bob Trapp (husband to Christie [my 10th cousin] and cousin to most of you out there) Message: 2 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 06:22:10 -0500 From: "Norman V. James" Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors To: Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Arthur, Maybe I am reading your post wrong but it seems you are saying John 3 married both Sarah M and Mercy W. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Small" To: Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors > John (3) was born SEPT. 1651, marr.Sarah Myrick 12/18/1672 and 2nd. > Mercy > Watson of Plymouth. She died 9/27/1721--age 57. Son John(4) was born > July > 1678, so John (3) was 26 when his son was born..a reasonable age. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message ********************************************************** Don't miss this website if you like to read. --------------------------------- Access over 1 million songs - Yahoo! Music Unlimited.

Please add this to my last post: John Freeman (1651) m. as second wife Mercy Watson (bef. 1659) [nee Hedges]. John Freeman (1678) m. as first wife Mercy Watson (1683). There should be found in the Eastham VR's two different records for these marriages both of which happened around 1697 -1701 in Eastham. A strange case for genealogical researchers. When parents of the same name and their child of the same name marry in a short span of time in the same locality. Bob Trapp ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

Ok all you Mayflower detectives get this one straight. <G> John Freeman (Dec 1651 - 27 June 1721) m. [1] Eastham 8 Dec 1672, Sarah Merrick (Christened 1 Aug 1654 - 21 April 1696) He m. [2] Mercy Hedges (b. bef 4 July 1659 - d. 27 Sep 1721). Mercy was the widow of Elkanah Watson and their 3rd child was Mercy Watson - please remember this name.) John and Sarah's 3rd child - John Freeman (July 1678 - 1767) m. Eastham 1701, Mercy Watson (Oct 1683 - 25 Dec 1768). Now John, son of John has married Mercy, daughter of Mercy. Mrs. Mercy Watson being the second wife of John Freeman (1651) and step mother of John Freeman (1678). To make a long store shorter John married his step-sister, oh what a tangled web we spin for love. (This is part of one of my lines) I only lurk in the background but like to jump in from time to time. As to Jamestown and Plymouth my granddaughter is a Bass, a direct descendant of Mr. Bass Founder of Jamestown and holder of the patent signed by King James and also descendant of at least 16 of the adult passengers on the Mayflower. Merry Christmas and Happy New Year to All! Bob Trapp (husband to Christie [my 10th cousin] and cousin to most of you out there) Message: 2 Date: Mon, 4 Dec 2006 06:22:10 -0500 From: "Norman V. James" <[email protected]> Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors To: <[email protected]> Message-ID: <[email protected]> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; reply-type=original Arthur, Maybe I am reading your post wrong but it seems you are saying John 3 married both Sarah M and Mercy W. Norm ----- Original Message ----- From: "Arthur Small" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Sunday, December 03, 2006 11:36 PM Subject: Re: [MFLR] Mayflower Ancestors > John (3) was born SEPT. 1651, marr.Sarah Myrick 12/18/1672 and 2nd. > Mercy > Watson of Plymouth. She died 9/27/1721--age 57. Son John(4) was born > July > 1678, so John (3) was 26 when his son was born..a reasonable age. ________________________________________________________________________ Check out the new AOL. Most comprehensive set of free safety and security tools, free access to millions of high-quality videos from across the web, free AOL Mail and more.

_http://bos-gw.rays-place.com/bos/index.htm_ (http://bos-gw.rays-place.com/bos/index.htm)

I believe you will all find this interesting with many old names and information on early gravestones in New England....A study by Yale Professor. _http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/2003/2/03.02.01.x.html_ (http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/2003/2/03.02.01.x.html) _Click here: 03.02.01: Death and Dying in Puritan New England: A Study Based on Early Gravestones, Vital Records, and other Pri_ (http://www.yale.edu/ynhti/curriculum/units/2003/2/03.02.01.x.html) darlene

Hi all. I found my lineage from Stephen Hopkins, I come down the line of Giles Hopkins, one of his sons, and it's Hopkin's all the way down to Theall, then my Hackaliah Theall married Thatcher's daughter, Huldah. then direct Theall line all the way down to me. Now, just searching as much proof as possible. Still gathering info, so I anyone has more of this information, please let me know. Thank you all again. Darlene

Please forgive one more, a bit off topic, but I believe it is needed for clarification. First, The Patriot Index only names Patriots whose descendants have joined the DAR. If your ancestor had no previous descendant join, he won't be in the DAR index. New Patriots are added to the list each month, but the book is only revised occasionally. Better sources are the State publications, and local records, such as Mass. S. & S.(soldiers & sailors) in the Revolution. Helen Benter

On Dec 6, 2006, Arlene Haddock <[email protected]> wrote: > Does anyone have this couple in their line? Is Susanna a Mayflower > Cooke? Torrey Marriages cites "JENKINS, John (-1684) & [?Susanna] _____; by 1649; Sandwich" Sources are {MD 16:122; Barnstable Fam. 2:101; Barnstable Co. Prob. 2:338} Otis, in Barns Families says two John Jenkins came early. The elder married widow Mary Ewer in Barnsable. The other John Jenkins "was a younger man, early joined the Quakers and settled in Sandwich, where he died in 1684" [p I-90] "In 1648 he became a resident of Sandwich. He married a daughter of one of the prominent Quaker families in that town:" He and the family were persecuted in Plymouth. She would hardly seem to be a Mayflower Cooke. Kardell, VR of Sandwich, NEHGS 1996, p 1-xxx, describes persecution of the Quakers and lists the 18 early families in Sandwich. John Jenkins is mentioned as one of them. No Cooke. Quaker Monthly Meeting records in Sandwich [Kardell, p1243] list children of John Jenkens and Susanah, starting in 1649, but not the marriage or any clue of which family Susanna came from. '"Job coock jenkens was born to them, 2nd month 1655. Annotated as "Surely one of the earliest uses of a middle name." Perhaps this gives a clue as the origin of claims that Susannah was a Cooke? Regards, Bob Carroll.

Thank you to all who responded to this question. I have had a time trying to figure the lineage of a 3rd gr-grandmother. Her name was Abigail Reynolds born 1811 in R.I and married to Simeon Clarke. My search took me to this Susannah Cooke. Arlene Clarke Haddock --- Bob & Dee Carroll <[email protected]> wrote: > On Dec 6, 2006, Arlene Haddock <[email protected]> > wrote: > > Does anyone have this couple in their line? Is > Susanna a Mayflower > > Cooke? > > Torrey Marriages cites "JENKINS, John (-1684) & > [?Susanna] _____; by > 1649; Sandwich" > Sources are {MD 16:122; Barnstable Fam. 2:101; > Barnstable Co. Prob. > 2:338} > Otis, in Barns Families says two John Jenkins came > early. The elder > married widow Mary Ewer in Barnsable. > The other John Jenkins "was a younger man, early > joined the Quakers and > settled in Sandwich, where he died in 1684" [p I-90] > "In 1648 he became a resident of Sandwich. He > married a daughter of one > of the prominent Quaker families in that town:" He > and the family were > persecuted in Plymouth. She would hardly seem to be > a Mayflower Cooke. > > Kardell, VR of Sandwich, NEHGS 1996, p 1-xxx, > describes persecution of > the Quakers and lists the 18 early families in > Sandwich. John Jenkins > is mentioned as one of them. No Cooke. Quaker > Monthly Meeting records > in Sandwich [Kardell, p1243] list children of John > Jenkens and Susanah, > starting in 1649, but not the marriage or any clue > of which family > Susanna came from. > '"Job coock jenkens was born to them, 2nd month > 1655. Annotated as > "Surely one of the earliest uses of a middle name." > Perhaps this gives > a clue as the origin of claims that Susannah was a > Cooke? > > Regards, Bob Carroll. > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email > to [email protected] with the word > 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > ____________________________________________________________________________________ Have a burning question? Go to www.Answers.yahoo.com and get answers from real people who know.

At 07:17 PM 12/6/2006, Arlene Haddock wrote: >Is Susanna a Mayflower Cooke? Arlene - She was not. Many early Cookes on Cape Cod were descendants of Josiah Cooke of Eastham (not a Mayflower like). Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml

Does anyone have this couple in their line? Is Susanna a Mayflower Cooke? Thank you. Arlene Clarke Haddock ____________________________________________________________________________________ Yahoo! Music Unlimited Access over 1 million songs. http://music.yahoo.com/unlimited

The Michigan Mayflower Society is now on line. _www.michmayflower.org_ (http://www.michmayflower.org) I am a lifetime member of Michigan. Scott Mckay

A new DVD, "The Pilgrims in Holland, 16080-1220". An educational DVD in production by the Leiden American Pilgrim Museum in Leiden, the Netherlands, is devoted to a 12 year gap which William Bradford never managed to fill. To purchase the Dvd, please contact De. Jeremy Bangs at the Leiden American Pilgrim Museum, Beschuitsteeg 9, 2312 J T Leiden, the Netherlands or email [email protected]_ (mailto:[email protected]) . Scott Mckay I got this information from New England Ancestors magazine Holiday 2006 vol. 7, nos. 5-6. Page 44.

I want to thank everyone on this list for all the help you have given to me on Thatcher Hopkins. Now I know he is MF6, did not know that. And for lots of other information you all shared. Respectfully, Darlene

I would suggest that you write to the DAR in Washington DC and ask for a copy of the application(s) that were submitted so that you can see if the lineage that was supplied by the applicant matches what you have found your line of descent to be is the same. Even though people may have submitted for your "ancestor" in the past, what is required today is actual proof that you are a descendant - with primary evidence. The people who applied in the past did not have that obligation because it was felt that the individuals who were applying for membership were in close enough proximity to the actual soldier that they might have known the soldier or would have been only one or two generations away, not the 10-13 generations we are today. Some of the lines that were or are listed in the DAR Patriot Index have been closed off to new memberships because it has been now proven the person never actually served or there was a defect in the lineage presented. Today the DAR has a better handle on who served and who didn't. Back then (early 1900s) the DAR didn't have the ability to know all the various soldiers or have access to the records like they do today. They didn't have a computer database and that sort of thing to be able to check each and every application against a muster list from NARA or the War Department to know whether the name that was listed as a soldier actually served in the military or provided aid to the government in order to qualify for membership. Back in the early 1900s, the DAR may not have had the extensive library and resources as they do today. It is because of this that the DAR now requires you to reprove those old lines. They want to make sure that the lineages are documented with primary evidence - similar to the requirements of the Mayflower Society. Christie Trapp

Click here: Pilgrims' Progress Hi, everyone! I may have missed reference to this on the list, but here is an article that was in the November '06 issue of Smithsonian Magazine. Happy Holidays! Susan House http://www.smithsonianmag.com/issues/2006/november/pilgrimsprogress.php

In a message dated 12/5/2006 7:17:58 AM Eastern Standard Time, [email protected] writes: He also does not appear in my copy of the DAR Patriot Index. I do not have Berthold Fernow, "New York in the Revolution" (Albany, NY: 1887) which is cited as a source in the MF6 entry for Thatcher's family. ______________________________________________ In my copy of the DAR Patriot Index (1968 edition) Thatcher HOPKINS appears as follows: HOPKINS Thatcher, b 1754 d 7-7-1830 m (1) Eleanor Regan (2) Mrs Mary Green Pvt NY Best regards, Hugh