Carol, It is quite possible that you did absolutely NOTHING wrong in your research. According to your messages, you submitted a synopsis for these lines and received a reply stating that the GSMD has no lineage papers which documented these lines. There are countless lines of descent from the Mayflower passengers. The GSMD has spent decades searching for only the first five generations of descendants of the passengers [and their efforts are still ongoing]. The lack of any lineage papers documenting your line simply means you will need to supply the documentation yourself with your application. Raymond T. Wing Genealogist, Wing Family of America, Inc. [WFA] www.wingfamily.org

Linda, Consider (1) hiring research staff at NEHGS for a review of material there such as Corbin Collection, microfiche. Consider (2) hiring someone in Pittsfield to do (a) Probate research for extended family and (b) Deeds research for same. Deeds may be more useful. Talk to the BA or even a deeds researcher through a law firm. Consider (c) hiring some one in NY to do same for Ononadaga county. Again Deeds may be more useful, quitclaims on propeerty signed off by both Lucy and Seth. BUT familiarize yourself with all the resources that you can order yourself through a FHC so as to be sure about what's being gotten at. (I don't go out that way anymore.) NEHGS likely by now has all the Berkshire deeds & probate microfilm so may be best to have them blitz their holdings first. Talking to them is free. Best if you provide a copy of the application your own research notes/citations for their review & to avoid duplication. Or contact the MA Society of Genealogists or even TIARA. There certainly are fellow genealogists out there!Robert M. GerrityYANKEE ANCESTRYP. O. Box 2814Acton, MA 01720> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2008 16:07:01 -0600> From: smit8698@bellsouth.net> To: mayflower@rootsweb.com> Subject: Re: [MFLR] Berkshire Co Ma genealogists> > Thank you, Dale, for checking your records, even though you did not find > anything. Lucy's parents, Jonathan Bassett and Lucy Spafford, were > married in the Congregational Church in Dalton in 1787. There is a > record of that marriage in the Dalton VR and the baptism of Lucy's older > sister Lucretia can be found in the Robin Hillyer Cooke Collection at > the Berkshire Anthenaeum (BFHA sent it to me) Lucy and Seth Alvord's > last three children were baptized in a Presbyterian Church in Onondaga, > NY, so I am sure there is nothing in the Episcopal records. One of the > problems I have run into is that Jonathan Bassett died in 1798 when > daughter Lucy was only 7 years old; mother Lucy Spafford Bassett died > in 1805 (after remarrying an Amasa DAY) The children were all minors > and after their mother's death their guardian was an Uncle, Amos > Spafford. At some point they lived in Pittsfield, MA, I believe, so I > suppose the records might be in that town. Seth and Lucy Alvord's first > child, born Dec 1812, was b. in Burlington, Otsego, NY. and their second > was b. in Cooperstown, Otsego,. NY. So you see, they moved around > quite a bit during that time frame. > > I well understand why the marriage was marked 'weak', and I don't blame > them. I doubt they would have approved it without every other event > being well documented with primary sources. The Alvord Genealogy is a > very good one; I have been able to verify every record that I have > checked with primary source records and have not found anything other > than one or two insignificant typographical errors. I am confident that > the marriage took place, and on that date, I only wish I had the actual > record! I am still hoping someone on this list knows a researcher in > that area.> > Thanks again,> > Linda> > Dale H. Cook wrote:> > At 12:57 PM 1/16/2008, Linda Smith wrote:> >> > > >> I am trying to find proof of the marriage of Seth ALVORD (1787-1831)> >> and Lucy BASSETT (1791-1862) which took place, according to the> >> /Descendants of Alexander Alvord/, in Dalton, Berkshire Co, MA, 14 Jan> >> 1812.> >>> >> The marriage was marked as 'weak'> >> on the application when I got it back from Plymouth.> >> > >> > The reason why it was marked "weak" is undoubtedly because the only > > citation was of a secondary source, and there obviously no record of > > this marriage in the Dalton Town Clerk's records as it is not found > > in Dalton VR.> >> > I have checked the published VR volumes for the towns in the > > immediate area of Dalton, and do not see this marriage in any of > > them. I know that the Congregational Church was established in Dalton > > from early times, and think that the Episcopal church was in > > existence by 1812, but the marriage is not found in the records of > > either church or it would have been listed in Dalton VR.> >> > Unfortunately I do not know any researchers at that end of the state. > > This indeed looks like the kind of problem where you need a > > researcher on the ground in that area, who can check unpublished town > > and church records for you.> >> > Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants;> > Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project> > http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml _________________________________________________________________ Watch “Cause Effect,” a show about real people making a real difference. http://im.live.com/Messenger/IM/MTV/?source=text_watchcause

At 12:57 PM 1/16/2008, Linda Smith wrote: >I am trying to find proof of the marriage of Seth ALVORD (1787-1831) >and Lucy BASSETT (1791-1862) which took place, according to the >/Descendants of Alexander Alvord/, in Dalton, Berkshire Co, MA, 14 Jan >1812. > >The marriage was marked as 'weak' >on the application when I got it back from Plymouth. The reason why it was marked "weak" is undoubtedly because the only citation was of a secondary source, and there obviously no record of this marriage in the Dalton Town Clerk's records as it is not found in Dalton VR. I have checked the published VR volumes for the towns in the immediate area of Dalton, and do not see this marriage in any of them. I know that the Congregational Church was established in Dalton from early times, and think that the Episcopal church was in existence by 1812, but the marriage is not found in the records of either church or it would have been listed in Dalton VR. Unfortunately I do not know any researchers at that end of the state. This indeed looks like the kind of problem where you need a researcher on the ground in that area, who can check unpublished town and church records for you. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml

Thank you, Dale, for checking your records, even though you did not find anything. Lucy's parents, Jonathan Bassett and Lucy Spafford, were married in the Congregational Church in Dalton in 1787. There is a record of that marriage in the Dalton VR and the baptism of Lucy's older sister Lucretia can be found in the Robin Hillyer Cooke Collection at the Berkshire Anthenaeum (BFHA sent it to me) Lucy and Seth Alvord's last three children were baptized in a Presbyterian Church in Onondaga, NY, so I am sure there is nothing in the Episcopal records. One of the problems I have run into is that Jonathan Bassett died in 1798 when daughter Lucy was only 7 years old; mother Lucy Spafford Bassett died in 1805 (after remarrying an Amasa DAY) The children were all minors and after their mother's death their guardian was an Uncle, Amos Spafford. At some point they lived in Pittsfield, MA, I believe, so I suppose the records might be in that town. Seth and Lucy Alvord's first child, born Dec 1812, was b. in Burlington, Otsego, NY. and their second was b. in Cooperstown, Otsego,. NY. So you see, they moved around quite a bit during that time frame. I well understand why the marriage was marked 'weak', and I don't blame them. I doubt they would have approved it without every other event being well documented with primary sources. The Alvord Genealogy is a very good one; I have been able to verify every record that I have checked with primary source records and have not found anything other than one or two insignificant typographical errors. I am confident that the marriage took place, and on that date, I only wish I had the actual record! I am still hoping someone on this list knows a researcher in that area. Thanks again, Linda Dale H. Cook wrote: > At 12:57 PM 1/16/2008, Linda Smith wrote: > > >> I am trying to find proof of the marriage of Seth ALVORD (1787-1831) >> and Lucy BASSETT (1791-1862) which took place, according to the >> /Descendants of Alexander Alvord/, in Dalton, Berkshire Co, MA, 14 Jan >> 1812. >> >> The marriage was marked as 'weak' >> on the application when I got it back from Plymouth. >> > > The reason why it was marked "weak" is undoubtedly because the only > citation was of a secondary source, and there obviously no record of > this marriage in the Dalton Town Clerk's records as it is not found > in Dalton VR. > > I have checked the published VR volumes for the towns in the > immediate area of Dalton, and do not see this marriage in any of > them. I know that the Congregational Church was established in Dalton > from early times, and think that the Episcopal church was in > existence by 1812, but the marriage is not found in the records of > either church or it would have been listed in Dalton VR. > > Unfortunately I do not know any researchers at that end of the state. > This indeed looks like the kind of problem where you need a > researcher on the ground in that area, who can check unpublished town > and church records for you. > > Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; > Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project > http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml > > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

Hello list, I am trying to find proof of the marriage of Seth ALVORD (1787-1831) and Lucy BASSETT (1791-1862) which took place, according to the /Descendants of Alexander Alvord/, in Dalton, Berkshire Co, MA, 14 Jan 1812. Lucy was the daughter of Jonathan Bassett, son of William Bassett and Alice CLEVELAND; Alice was a descendant of William Bradford of the Mayflower. Seth ALVORD was a descendant of both William BREWSTER and John HOWLAND. I have submitted and it has been approved, descendancy from William BREWSTER. However, the only proof that I have of the above mentioned marriage is the /Alvord/ Genealogy. The marriage was marked as 'weak' on the application when I got it back from Plymouth. I now have all my paperwork ready for William BRADFORD, but would feel a lot better if I had real proof of this marriage. I hired someone in Berkshire Co MA off the internet the first of November. She was to do 5 hours of research and I sent her half of the money upfront. Well, you can guess my problem. So far, no information has been forthcoming and now I cannot get her to answer my emails. Maybe she is just a slowpoke?? One can always hope.... Meanwhile, I still want to find a record of this marriage. Is there someone on this list who can recommend a genealogist in that area of MA? I'm not hiring anyone else without a good recommendation! I think the person will have to go to the county seat and search the actual records. There is a lot of info on this family at the Berkshire Anthenaeum, but not the actual record, it seems. If anyone knows of a good, honest, reputable researcher in that area, I surely would appreciate a name. Thanks in advance if you can help, Linda Smith Nashville, TN

Can you add Mayflower ancestor, and dates & places for Archer Arthur & Elizabeth (Gifford) Manchester? Context is very useful to thinking about an issue. Regards, Robert M. GerrityP. O. Box 2814Acton, MA 01720> From: arachne@townisp.com> To: MAYFLOWER-L@rootsweb.com> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2008 12:02:08 -0500> Subject: [MFLR] Question regarding research problem> > I am working on a possible Mayflower line and have a problem I hope someone can help me with. I have Elizabeth Gifford, daughter of John Gifford and Comfort Hart, married to Archer Arthur Manchester. I would like to know if she married twice, second husband being Joseph Manchester, brother of Archer Arthur Manchester.> > Thanks.> Pat Thayer _________________________________________________________________ Put your friends on the big screen with Windows Vista® + Windows Live™. http://www.microsoft.com/windows/shop/specialoffers.mspx?ocid=TXT_TAGLM_CPC_MediaCtr_bigscreen_012008

I am working on a possible Mayflower line and have a problem I hope someone can help me with. I have Elizabeth Gifford, daughter of John Gifford and Comfort Hart, married to Archer Arthur Manchester. I would like to know if she married twice, second husband being Joseph Manchester, brother of Archer Arthur Manchester. Thanks. Pat Thayer

The marriage of Zebedee Manchester (son of Archer Manchester and Elizabeth Gifford) took place at Little Compton, Newport Co., Rhode Island on 28 JUL 1777. (NEHG Register 101:175 from RI VRs 4:VI:40) This record stated "[MANCHESTER] Zebedee, of Archer and Elizabeth, dec." Therefore Elizabeth Gifford died before her husband, Archer Manchester. Raymond T. Wing Genealogist, Wing Family of America, Inc. [WFA] www.wingfamily.org PThayer <arachne@townisp.com> wrote: I am working on a possible Mayflower line and have a problem I hope someone can help me with. I have Elizabeth Gifford, daughter of John Gifford and Comfort Hart, married to Archer Arthur Manchester. I would like to know if she married twice, second husband being Joseph Manchester, brother of Archer Arthur Manchester. Thanks. Pat Thayer Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Jeremy, Thank you for your reply. I saw Bangs family name mixed with some of my family members and had not know you had answered this question before. This is a new branch of my family I was doing research on when I kept seeing the Bangs name. It was very kind of you to reply again. Thank you, Bob Trapp **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

Can someone please help me and explain what the "Oath Of Fidelity" was that some of my Mayflower ancestors took in Plymouth in 1685. Bob Trapp **************Start the year off right. Easy ways to stay in shape. http://body.aol.com/fitness/winter-exercise?NCID=aolcmp00300000002489

I'm sure Jeremy will probably answer this himself, since he monitors this list, but I believe he has said before that he is not descended from Edward. -------------- Original message ---------------------- From: r1946at@aol.com > > > > Does anyone know if Jeremy Bangs, who does Mayflower and early New England > family research in the Netherlands, is a descendand of Edward Bangs? Edward > Bangs was born about 1591 in England and died after his will was made and signed > 19 October 1677 and before his will was proved on 5 March 1677/1678, he was > reported to be 86 years of age at the time of death. Any > information will be most appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Bob Trapp > > > ________________________________________________________________________ > More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - > http://webmail.aol.com > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for > this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in > the subject and the body of the message

I'm not related to Edward Bangs. My grandfather changed his name to Bangs when he moved to America from Norway, where his name had been Bang. My father, Carl Bangs, considered changing it back, but he decided that such a shift would lead to bibliographic confusion. Both my father and a distant cousin with the same name born in the same year were published authors, one in America, one in Denmark. My father foresaw problems for librarians. cheers, Jeremy Bangs r1946at@aol.com wrote: > > >Does anyone know if Jeremy Bangs, who does Mayflower and early New England family research in the Netherlands, is a descendand of Edward Bangs? Edward Bangs was born about 1591 in England and died after his will was made and signed 19 October 1677 and before his will was proved on 5 March 1677/1678, he was reported to be 86 years of age at the time of death. Any >information will be most appreciated. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >Bob Trapp > > >________________________________________________________________________ >More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com >Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Does anyone know if Jeremy Bangs, who does Mayflower and early New England family research in the Netherlands, is a descendand of Edward Bangs? Edward Bangs was born about 1591 in England and died after his will was made and signed 19 October 1677 and before his will was proved on 5 March 1677/1678, he was reported to be 86 years of age at the time of death. Any information will be most appreciated. Bob Trapp ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

The following information was found on RootsWeb's WorldConnect Project. As such, it still needs to be verified, but it is at least a start. http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=PED&db=nov2004update&id=I81809 Benjamin Howland was son of Isaac Howland & Sarah Crocker. Howland Lineage: Benjamin, Isaac, Isaac, John, John http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=GET&db=:2311233&id=I507982646 Benjamin Howland married Eunice Chase. Raymond T. Wing

Greetings: I am trying to trace my Mayflower lineage and have hit a brick wall. Maybe some one here might be able to give me some ideas where else to look for the information I am needing. I have the John Howland books, but they do not have the information I am needing, and I have search all the records on Ancestry , and New England web site and do not find what I am looking for. 1.What I want to know, who is this Benja's father and mother. 2. What is Eunices maiden name. 3. Who did Sarah and Eunice marry? I do know that Benjamin Howland born 1752 married Lydia Baker, I have all that information and all the generations down from 1752 to me. <Just submitted my DAR info to the local chapter.> Any ideas from any one, where else can I look??? Thanks Jean Heres the info: HOWLAND A record of the names and births of the children of Benja Howland and his wife Eunice is as followeth viz: Birth Yarmouth 1746 HOWLAND Sarah Howland born April the 18th old style 1746 (of Benja Howland and his wife Eunice) Birth Yarmouth 1752 HOWLAND Benjamin Howland born September the 12th old style 1752 (of Benja Howland and his wife Eunice) Birth Yarmouth 1756 HOWLAND Euinice Howland born January 1st old style 1756 (of Benja Howland and his wife Eunice) --------------------------------- Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your homepage.

If possible, I would very much like a copy of that TAG article, too. I have Elizabeth Scudder in my tree, married to Samuel Lathrop (son of the Rev. John Lo/Lathrop), on 28 Nov 1644 in Barnstable, MA. My approved Brewster line actually goes thru their great-grandson Elisha Lathrop, married to Hannah Hough and up her line. I have nothing on Elizabeth Scudder's parents or family and would love to find out more. Thanks, Patricia Bowerman Jobe Descendant, William and Mary Brewster rpwm82@fullnet.net ----- Original Message ----- From: christietrapp@aol.com To: mayflower@rootsweb.com Sent: Wednesday, January 02, 2008 4:32 PM Subject: [MFLR] Scudder research Forgot one other source I've looked in: Pope's Pioneers of Massachusetts. Short blurbs about these early Sudders. Also checked Savages' for Scudder and there were some bios too. What has me confused is the constant reference to the sister Elizabeth - I have her married to the Bartholomew and I also have one married to Samuel Lothrop. Got that one from a Lothrop genealogy which names her parents. I'm thinking, again, that there are two John's running around at the same time and that the Elizabeth to Lothrop belong to the Barnstable guy and the Elizabeth to Bartholomew belong to this family in question. Christie ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

I have posted The American Genealogist "Warren" article from Dale on my web site at: http://www.craigrich.net/TAG_Warren.pdf So no one has to ask for it any longer. ;-) Craig Rich Mayflower List Administrator

A very simple solution for distribution , thanks On 1/9/08, Craig Rich <oldpirate@comcast.net> wrote: > I have posted The American Genealogist "Warren" article from Dale on my web > site at: > > http://www.craigrich.net/TAG_Warren.pdf > > So no one has to ask for it any longer. ;-) > > > Craig Rich > Mayflower List Administrator > > > > > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- Alan Portland, OR

Susan, I was at the Library in Plymouth two years ago and did inquire and they were kind enough to do a quick check but didn't see anything. I can try and make a formal request but what I have found is that those who descend?from this?marriage and?who have applied to the Mayflower Society usually got in through our other lines, i.e. Howland, Allerton, Soule. Thanks for the reminder about looking for other papers in Plymouth, it can't hurt to ask again. Judy ________________________________________________________________________ More new features than ever. Check out the new AOL Mail ! - http://webmail.aol.com

i would like someone to mail me the Warren article. Thank you ---- Ralph Newton <DadRalph@comcast.net> wrote: > Please send me the Warren article. I am related to these folks. Thanks > Frequently-asked questions may often be answered by visiting the FAQ page for this list at: http://www.craigrich.net/mayfaq.htm > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAYFLOWER-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message