Thanks to all who responded to my question on the Return of Death form. It seems to me that obtaining VR up to 1910, it is best to see either the microfilm at the MA Archives and NEHGS digital version of the the microfilm. After 1910, where is the best place to go to get the full information, would that be the MA archives? Unless the clerk lets you view the original image. Does my assessment seem correct? Karen

The records at the State Archives only go to 1915. Later than that, you need to get the information from the City/Town Clerk. As told to me by Jodi, who does a lot of this, if the record is in the restricted years, about 1917 and later, the clerk will not allow her to read the actual record. The clerk will read the relevant information for Jodi to write down. John & Jodi Massachusetts Vital Records Project Administrators - http://MA-VitalRecords.org > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [MAWORCES] Return of Death form > From: DEAN & KAREN TREARCHIS <dktrearchis@comcast.net> > Date: Wed, March 05, 2008 8:56 am > To: MAWORCES@rootsweb.com > Thanks to all who responded to my question on the Return of Death > form. It seems to me that obtaining VR up to 1910, it is best to see > either the microfilm at the MA Archives and NEHGS digital version of > the the microfilm. After 1910, where is the best place to go to get > the full information, would that be the MA archives? Unless the clerk > lets you view the original image. Does my assessment seem correct? > Karen > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I just talked with the reference librarian at the Massachusetts State Archives. When the state switched from the ledger style of record keeping to individual records, the original name for a death certificate was "Return of a Death." Now, it is just a death certificate. He wasn't sure of the exact name for the current form as his records are only as late as 1915. He did say that a modern city clerk would have no reason to know about the old form's name. So, just ask for a death certificate and there should be no confusion. I apologize for causing this little brouhaha. But, it has been informative and we've all learned just a bit more. John & Jodi Massachusetts Vital Records Project Administrators - http://MA-VitalRecords.org > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [MAWORCES] Return of Death form > From: DEAN & KAREN TREARCHIS <dktrearchis@comcast.net> > Date: Tue, March 04, 2008 12:13 pm > To: MAWORCES@rootsweb.com > John & Jodi of MA Vital Records Project Adminstrators: I just called > the Worcester City Clerk office to ask how to request a "Return of > Death" form on an Ancestor. The woman didn't know what I was talking > about, asking me why not request a death certficate. She put me on > hold to ask someone else and apparently they also didn't know. I see > that you can request a death certficate by printing out a form online > and then sending in a check. However, I would prefer to get a Return > of Death. Aren't I asking for the right form, is it them or me who > is confused?Please respond. > Karen Trearchis > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

HI everyone, There is nothing on a "return of death" certificate that isn't on a death certificate. It is a copy of the original death certificate. If the person lived in one town and died in another, it was the practice to send a copy of the death certificate to the town where the person lived. Marilyn Labbe On Tue, 4 Mar 2008 23:34:01 -0500 "Lisa Lepore" <llepore@comcast.net> writes: > My take on this is that "return of death" is an > outdated term not much used today. > > If you go to http://books.google.com/ and search for > "return of death" > the second entry there is for a book published in 1921 > by the department of public health - > supplement to > State Laws and regulations pertaining to public health 1917 > > the link brings you to a page about rules in Fall River, and they > refer to a "return of death" > > I think today what you want to ask for is a death certificate, > or ask to look at the death register books. > > In Massachusetts, you can get this at the city or town hall, > the Massachusetts State Archives if the death is old enough > [1915 and earlier, I think] > > I don't know if Tewksbury will let you look at the death registers > yourself or if the clerk has to do it. Each town has its own rules > about this. > > Exactly what information are you hoping to find from a return > of death that you think might not be included on a death > certificate? > > That might help us explain this better. > > Personally, I think a return of death is probably some > paperwork notification from a doctor or hospital to the > city or town, or the notification from the city or town to > some central state location. > > Lisa > llepore@comcast.net > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Vital Records Project" <vitalrecords@ma-vitalrecords.org> > To: "DEAN & KAREN TREARCHIS" <dktrearchis@comcast.net> > Cc: <MAWORCES@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 4:57 PM > Subject: Re: [MAWORCES] Return of Death form > > > | This is a most interesting development, Karen. I was talking with > Jodi > | when your e-mail came in. She will be taking a trip this week to > | Tewksbury where she'll be looking at their books of death records > and > | will get back to me. She was thinking that maybe the Return of a > Death > | is the original handwritten document. > | > | She told me that she has never been allowed to photocopy the > original. > | The clerk goes to the computer and prints out the information on a > form. > | > | We'll try to get the straight information. I'll make some phone > calls > | tomorrow. It is too late today. > | > | John & Jodi > | Massachusetts Vital Records Project Administrators - > | http://MA-VitalRecords.org > | > | > -------- Original Message -------- > | > Subject: [MAWORCES] Return of Death form > | > From: DEAN & KAREN TREARCHIS <dktrearchis@comcast.net> > | > Date: Tue, March 04, 2008 12:13 pm > | > To: MAWORCES@rootsweb.com > | > John & Jodi of MA Vital Records Project Adminstrators: I just > called > | > the Worcester City Clerk office to ask how to request a "Return > of > | > Death" form on an Ancestor. The woman didn't know what I was > talking > | > about, asking me why not request a death certficate. She put me > on > | > hold to ask someone else and apparently they also didn't know. I > see > | > that you can request a death certficate by printing out a form > online > | > and then sending in a check. However, I would prefer to get a > Return > | > of Death. Aren't I asking for the right form, is it them or me > who > | > is confused?Please respond. > | > Karen Trearchis > | > > | > ------------------------------- > | > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > | > | > | ------------------------------- > | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without > the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >

My take on this is that "return of death" is an outdated term not much used today. If you go to http://books.google.com/ and search for "return of death" the second entry there is for a book published in 1921 by the department of public health - supplement to State Laws and regulations pertaining to public health 1917 the link brings you to a page about rules in Fall River, and they refer to a "return of death" I think today what you want to ask for is a death certificate, or ask to look at the death register books. In Massachusetts, you can get this at the city or town hall, the Massachusetts State Archives if the death is old enough [1915 and earlier, I think] I don't know if Tewksbury will let you look at the death registers yourself or if the clerk has to do it. Each town has its own rules about this. Exactly what information are you hoping to find from a return of death that you think might not be included on a death certificate? That might help us explain this better. Personally, I think a return of death is probably some paperwork notification from a doctor or hospital to the city or town, or the notification from the city or town to some central state location. Lisa llepore@comcast.net ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vital Records Project" <vitalrecords@ma-vitalrecords.org> To: "DEAN & KAREN TREARCHIS" <dktrearchis@comcast.net> Cc: <MAWORCES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, March 04, 2008 4:57 PM Subject: Re: [MAWORCES] Return of Death form | This is a most interesting development, Karen. I was talking with Jodi | when your e-mail came in. She will be taking a trip this week to | Tewksbury where she'll be looking at their books of death records and | will get back to me. She was thinking that maybe the Return of a Death | is the original handwritten document. | | She told me that she has never been allowed to photocopy the original. | The clerk goes to the computer and prints out the information on a form. | | We'll try to get the straight information. I'll make some phone calls | tomorrow. It is too late today. | | John & Jodi | Massachusetts Vital Records Project Administrators - | http://MA-VitalRecords.org | | > -------- Original Message -------- | > Subject: [MAWORCES] Return of Death form | > From: DEAN & KAREN TREARCHIS <dktrearchis@comcast.net> | > Date: Tue, March 04, 2008 12:13 pm | > To: MAWORCES@rootsweb.com | > John & Jodi of MA Vital Records Project Adminstrators: I just called | > the Worcester City Clerk office to ask how to request a "Return of | > Death" form on an Ancestor. The woman didn't know what I was talking | > about, asking me why not request a death certficate. She put me on | > hold to ask someone else and apparently they also didn't know. I see | > that you can request a death certficate by printing out a form online | > and then sending in a check. However, I would prefer to get a Return | > of Death. Aren't I asking for the right form, is it them or me who | > is confused?Please respond. | > Karen Trearchis | > | > ------------------------------- | > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message | | | ------------------------------- | To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

> I don't know if Tewksbury will let you look at the death registers > yourself or if the clerk has to do it. Each town has its own rules > about this. Jodi has been doing a lot of research at the Tewksbury Hospital. Any records prior to 1917 she is allowed to take to a table and freely copy. The certificates, be they "Return of a Death" or a "Certificate of Death" or whatever, are bound together. No matter how old the records, she is never allowed to photocopy them. > Personally, I think a return of death is probably some > paperwork notification from a doctor or hospital to the > city or town, or the notification from the city or town to > some central state location. This is probably very close to the mark. In case you missed it earlier, you can look at a 1907 Return of a Death at http://ma-vitalrecords.org/Images/MA-ReturnofDeath.jpg I have seen quite a number of these when researching the 1841-1910 NEHGS database. I have not seen one that says "Certificate of Death." As mentioned earlier, I'll make some phone calls tomorrow. I will be calling the Archives first. John & Jodi Massachusetts Vital Records Project Administrators - http://MA-VitalRecords.org

I believe the best place to check this out would be the Massachusetts Archives - easily found with a GOOGLE search & e-mail address on their website. They will know - and usually get back via e-mail very quickly. JSR Jacqueline Sleeper Russell Website: http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SRCH&db=jacquelinesr&surname=A In a message dated 3/4/2008 4:02:07 P.M. Pacific Standard Time, radiotest@cox.net writes: At 12:13 PM 3/4/2008, Karen Trearchis wrote: >I just called >the Worcester City Clerk office to ask how to request a "Return of >Death" form on an Ancestor. The woman didn't know what I was talking >about, asking me why not request a death certficate. She put me on >hold to ask someone else and apparently they also didn't know. I see >that you can request a death certficate by printing out a form online >and then sending in a check. However, I would prefer to get a Return >of Death. Aren't I asking for the right form, is it them or me who >is confused? There is not a simple answer to this question, as the title printed on what we can call an original birth, marriage or death certificate has varied with time and place within Massachusetts. Some of what I present herein is derived from my own experience with vital records in the Commonwealth since the 1840s, and some is drawn from a superb reference work, Val D. Greenwood, "The Researcher's Guide to American Genealogy" (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1st Edition 1973, 2nd Edition 1990, 3rd Edition 2000). State-wide registration of vital records in Massachusetts was enacted by the General Court in 1842, and that act was strengthened in 1844. The towns and cities varied in when they came into compliance with the act, but all seem to have been in compliance before 1850. Beginning in the 1840s the clerks used birth, marriage and death registers to record vital records, and duplicates of those register pages were sent to the state. Beginning in the first decade of the 1900s municipalities started shifting to individual certificates for recording events, but the transition was very slow. Some Massachusetts locations were still using registers for some events as late as the 1930s. Titles used on the Bay State certificates varied with date and location. From the early 1900s to the 1930s I have seen "Return of a Birth/Marriage/Death," "Certificate of Birth/Marriage/Death," and "Standard Certificate of Birth/Marriage/Death." Nationwide use of standard certificates began with Standard Certificates of Death suggested by the Census Office, and first adopted by 18 states in 1900. Other states later adopted them, and similar certificates for live births and finally marriages were adopted still later. The nationwide usage is now the "Standard Certificate of Live Birth/Marriage/Death." When you order a copy of a record, depending upon the clerk's office involved, you may receive a transcription of the original record or you may receive a photocopy of that record. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send _an email to MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message _ (http://worldconnect.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?op=SRCH&db=jacquelinesr&surname=A) **************It's Tax Time! Get tips, forms, and advice on AOL Money & Finance. (http://money.aol.com/tax?NCID=aolprf00030000000001)

At 12:13 PM 3/4/2008, Karen Trearchis wrote: >I just called >the Worcester City Clerk office to ask how to request a "Return of >Death" form on an Ancestor. The woman didn't know what I was talking >about, asking me why not request a death certficate. She put me on >hold to ask someone else and apparently they also didn't know. I see >that you can request a death certficate by printing out a form online >and then sending in a check. However, I would prefer to get a Return >of Death. Aren't I asking for the right form, is it them or me who >is confused? There is not a simple answer to this question, as the title printed on what we can call an original birth, marriage or death certificate has varied with time and place within Massachusetts. Some of what I present herein is derived from my own experience with vital records in the Commonwealth since the 1840s, and some is drawn from a superb reference work, Val D. Greenwood, "The Researcher's Guide to American Genealogy" (Baltimore, MD: Genealogical Publishing Co., 1st Edition 1973, 2nd Edition 1990, 3rd Edition 2000). State-wide registration of vital records in Massachusetts was enacted by the General Court in 1842, and that act was strengthened in 1844. The towns and cities varied in when they came into compliance with the act, but all seem to have been in compliance before 1850. Beginning in the 1840s the clerks used birth, marriage and death registers to record vital records, and duplicates of those register pages were sent to the state. Beginning in the first decade of the 1900s municipalities started shifting to individual certificates for recording events, but the transition was very slow. Some Massachusetts locations were still using registers for some events as late as the 1930s. Titles used on the Bay State certificates varied with date and location. From the early 1900s to the 1930s I have seen "Return of a Birth/Marriage/Death," "Certificate of Birth/Marriage/Death," and "Standard Certificate of Birth/Marriage/Death." Nationwide use of standard certificates began with Standard Certificates of Death suggested by the Census Office, and first adopted by 18 states in 1900. Other states later adopted them, and similar certificates for live births and finally marriages were adopted still later. The nationwide usage is now the "Standard Certificate of Live Birth/Marriage/Death." When you order a copy of a record, depending upon the clerk's office involved, you may receive a transcription of the original record or you may receive a photocopy of that record. Dale H. Cook, Member, NEHGS and MA Society of Mayflower Descendants; Plymouth Co. MA Coordinator for the USGenWeb Project http://members.cox.net/plymouthcolony/index.shtml

John & Jodi of MA Vital Records Project Adminstrators: I just called the Worcester City Clerk office to ask how to request a "Return of Death" form on an Ancestor. The woman didn't know what I was talking about, asking me why not request a death certficate. She put me on hold to ask someone else and apparently they also didn't know. I see that you can request a death certficate by printing out a form online and then sending in a check. However, I would prefer to get a Return of Death. Aren't I asking for the right form, is it them or me who is confused?Please respond. Karen Trearchis

This is a most interesting development, Karen. I was talking with Jodi when your e-mail came in. She will be taking a trip this week to Tewksbury where she'll be looking at their books of death records and will get back to me. She was thinking that maybe the Return of a Death is the original handwritten document. She told me that she has never been allowed to photocopy the original. The clerk goes to the computer and prints out the information on a form. We'll try to get the straight information. I'll make some phone calls tomorrow. It is too late today. John & Jodi Massachusetts Vital Records Project Administrators - http://MA-VitalRecords.org > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [MAWORCES] Return of Death form > From: DEAN & KAREN TREARCHIS <dktrearchis@comcast.net> > Date: Tue, March 04, 2008 12:13 pm > To: MAWORCES@rootsweb.com > John & Jodi of MA Vital Records Project Adminstrators: I just called > the Worcester City Clerk office to ask how to request a "Return of > Death" form on an Ancestor. The woman didn't know what I was talking > about, asking me why not request a death certficate. She put me on > hold to ask someone else and apparently they also didn't know. I see > that you can request a death certficate by printing out a form online > and then sending in a check. However, I would prefer to get a Return > of Death. Aren't I asking for the right form, is it them or me who > is confused?Please respond. > Karen Trearchis > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

LDS is sponsoring its annual free New England Family History Conference on Saturday, March 29, at the Franklin LDS Church. (Franklin is off 495 South, roughly between Bellingham and Wrentham, northeast of Woonsocket RI.) All the details are here: https://www.advantagesoftwaretechnologies.com/fam_hist/public/presentations/program_overview It looks like a good range of presentations on the program--basic topics with wide application (and a few ethnicities). Pre-registration is required, and if you preregister, you can access and download the syllabus, which is also free. Barbara Proko lead coauthor, Worcester County's Polish Community (2007); The Polish Community of Worcester (2003) --------------------------------- Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

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-------- Original Message -------- Subject: Rines Genealogy Date: Sun, 02 Mar 2008 12:45:51 -0500 From: Susan Hedeen <chantillycarpets@earthlink.net> Reply-To: chantillycarpets@earthlink.net To: lastlaugh48@yahoo.com, MAWORCES-L@rootsweb.com, MAWORCES-L@rootsweb.com, MAWORCES-L@rootsweb.com, MAWORCES-L-request@rootsweb.com CC: MAWORCES@rootsweb.com Please excuse the intrusion. I am trying to tie up some loose ends and are in hopes that you could be helpful in regard to the Rines genealogy of MA. In my Sewell Genealogy I have an Elizabeth who was mentioned in her father's will of 1753 as Elizabeth Gibson. (Timothy Sewell died Mendon, Worcester Co., MA 1753 with will probated 1753--Nov 1754). MA land records of the sale (1759) of her inherited land show her married name as Elizabeth Gibson and her husband William Gibson of Hopkinton, Middlesex Co., MA. This William Gibson married Sept 12, 1751 his /*second */wife, Elizabeth Rines of Mendon (Middlesex VRs). This is Elizabeth Sewell born 1718 Lynn, Essex Co., MA to Timothy & Elizabeth Jeffrey Sewell. The marriage record suggest that Elizabeth Sewell was previously married as well to a Rines and was thus a widow at the time of her marriage to William Gibson. Does anyone know the identity of this Rines? Perhaps there were children as I suspect Elizabeth Sewell would have married ca 1739/40.

Good morning, Dora. :-) The "Return of a Death" is what Massachusetts calls the death certificate. You can see an image of one at http://MA-VitalRecords.org/Images/MA-ReturnofDeath_sm.jpg The same image, but much larger so you can read everything is at http://MA-VitalRecords.org/Images/MA-ReturnofDeath.jpg The second image will take some time to load on a slower connection. John & Jodi Massachusetts Vital Records Project Administrators - http://MA-VitalRecords.org > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: Re: [MAWORCES] ALLEN in Worcester > From: "Dora Smith" <tiggernut24@yahoo.com> > Date: Sat, March 01, 2008 10:53 pm > To: <MAWORCES@rootsweb.com> > What's a Return of Death, and how does it differ from a death certificate? > Yours, > Dora Smith

Dora, Somewhat a guess on my part, but a death certificate would provide a specific amount of information, and could be an extract of the record. A Return of Death would have all that was recorded. If you get a copy of it, there is no chance of a transcription error. Sue On Sat, Mar 1, 2008 at 10:53 PM, Dora Smith wrote: > What's a Return of Death, and how does it differ from a death certificate? > > Yours, > Dora Smith > Austin, TX > Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 6:37 PM > Subject: Re: [MAWORCES] ALLEN in Worcester > > > > Kathleen, > > > > > Contact the Worcester City Clerk and request a copy of the Return of > > Death. The undertaker and place of interment will be listed on the > > bottom left. You can find the contact information at > > http://www.ci.worcester.ma.us/. Sometimes the clerk will look the > > information up and tell you on the phone. You never know. > > > > >

What's a Return of Death, and how does it differ from a death certificate? Yours, Dora Smith Austin, TX tiggernut24@yahoo.com ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vital Records Project" <vitalrecords@ma-vitalrecords.org> To: <KGiusti639@aol.com> Cc: <MAWORCES@rootsweb.com> Sent: Saturday, March 01, 2008 6:37 PM Subject: Re: [MAWORCES] ALLEN in Worcester > Kathleen, > First, Carrie Maria Allen's birth date is listed as May 27, 1874. > Don't know why, but Frank's birth is not on the page indicated nor on > the page before or after. BTW, there was a Carrie Allen b. in 1872 to > Moses Allen. :-) > > The record for James' death is just a bare listing of facts. He was 44 > y. 8 m. 12 d., b. Barnstable and died of grip with pneumonia and > catarrh(?) jaundice. He had been a bookkeeper. His parents were Capt. > David Allen, no birth place, and Lydia M. Swain, b. Nantucket. > > Contact the Worcester City Clerk and request a copy of the Return of > Death. The undertaker and place of interment will be listed on the > bottom left. You can find the contact information at > http://www.ci.worcester.ma.us/. Sometimes the clerk will look the > information up and tell you on the phone. You never know. > > Couldn't find a death for Hattie through 1910. Didn't look for deaths > for Frank or Carrie. They would have been rather young to be in the > records. Couldn't find a marriage for Carrie, either. > > Good luck. :-) > > John & Jodi > Massachusetts Vital Records Project Administrators - > http://MA-VitalRecords.org > >> -------- Original Message -------- >> Subject: [MAWORCES] ALLEN in Worcester >> From: KGiusti639@aol.com >> Date: Sat, March 01, 2008 3:38 pm >> To: MAWORCES@rootsweb.com >> Hi: >> I am researching the family of James Allen and Hattie W. Thompson, they >> were >> married 1 FEB 1872 in Cambridge, MA. At that time his name was David A. >> Allen. >> In 1874, he changed his name to James Allen. James and Hattie had the >> following children in Worcester: >> Frank Allen born 3 JUN 1872 >> Carrie Allen born 22 MAY 1874 >> James Allen died on 12 MAY 1898 in Worcester. I am trying to find out his >> burial place and/or if an obituary is available for him. Also, the death >> dates >> for his wife and children. >> Any help would be greatly appreciated. >> Take Care, >> Kathleen >> ************** >> Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL >> Living. >> >> (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG. Version: 7.5.516 / Virus Database: 269.21.1/1298 - Release Date: 2/25/2008 8:45 PM

Hi: Thank you, I have the information on Harriet and her parents, just not her death or burial. I suspect David changed his name to James to honor his brother. His brother, James drowned at the age of 10, very sad story. Take Care, Kathleen In a message dated 3/1/08 5:41:32 PM, vitalrecords@ma-vitalrecords.org writes: > Kathleen, >   Went back and pursued things a little more. >   Hattie's birth name was Harriet. She was b. Dec. 22, 1853 in Nantucket > to James and Sarah Ann. On her marriage record it is listed as Harriet. > She and David were both 18. >   >   FOUND - Frank H. Allen was b. July 3, 1872 in Worcester to David A. > and Hattie W. Thompson. David was a cashier at the time. As David and > Harriet got married on Feb. 1, I'd say Frank was just a shade premature. > :-))) > >   Maybe there was a reason for David changing his name to James. Too > many Davids. Both his father and father-in-law were David. > > Good luck. :-) > > John & Jodi > Massachusetts Vital Records Project Administrators - > http://MA-VitalRecords.org > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: [MAWORCES] ALLEN in Worcester > > From: KGiusti639@aol.com > > Date: Sat, March 01, 2008 3:38 pm > > To: MAWORCES@rootsweb.com > > Hi: > > I am researching the family of James Allen and Hattie W. Thompson, they > were > > married 1 FEB 1872 in Cambridge, MA. At that time his name was David A. > Allen. > > In 1874, he changed his name to James Allen. James and Hattie had the > > following children in Worcester: > > Frank Allen born 3 JUN 1872 > > Carrie Allen born 22 MAY 1874 > > James Allen died on 12 MAY 1898 in Worcester. I am trying to find out his > > burial place and/or if an obituary is available for him. Also, the death > dates > > for his wife and children. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Take Care, > > Kathleen > > ************** > > Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL > > Living. > > > > > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > > ************** Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

Hi: Thank you, yes I have the birth info for Carrie and the death info for James. And I saw the mix up in the index for Frank... But I am wondering if there are any cemetery transcription books for Worcester and or/if someone can look for an obituary for James Allen, he died on 12 MAY 1898 In Worcester. Thank you again, Kathleen In a message dated 3/1/08 4:37:11 PM, vitalrecords@ma-vitalrecords.org writes: > Kathleen, >   First, Carrie Maria Allen's birth date is listed as May 27, 1874. > Don't know why, but Frank's birth is not on the page indicated nor on > the page before or after. BTW, there was a Carrie Allen b. in 1872 to > Moses Allen. :-) > >   The record for James' death is just a bare listing of facts. He was 44 > y. 8 m. 12 d., b. Barnstable and died of grip with pneumonia and > catarrh(?) jaundice. He had been a bookkeeper. His parents were Capt. > David Allen, no birth place, and Lydia M. Swain, b. Nantucket. > >   Contact the Worcester City Clerk and request a copy of the Return of > Death. The undertaker and place of interment will be listed on the > bottom left. You can find the contact information at > http://www.ci.worcester.ma.us/. Sometimes the clerk will look the > information up and tell you on the phone. You never know. > >   Couldn't find a death for Hattie through 1910. Didn't look for deaths > for Frank or Carrie. They would have been rather young to be in the > records. Couldn't find a marriage for Carrie, either. > > Good luck. :-) > > John & Jodi > Massachusetts Vital Records Project Administrators - > http://MA-VitalRecords.org > > > -------- Original Message -------- > > Subject: [MAWORCES] ALLEN in Worcester > > From: KGiusti639@aol.com > > Date: Sat, March 01, 2008 3:38 pm > > To: MAWORCES@rootsweb.com > > Hi: > > I am researching the family of James Allen and Hattie W. Thompson, they > were > > married 1 FEB 1872 in Cambridge, MA. At that time his name was David A. > Allen. > > In 1874, he changed his name to James Allen. James and Hattie had the > > following children in Worcester: > > Frank Allen born 3 JUN 1872 > > Carrie Allen born 22 MAY 1874 > > James Allen died on 12 MAY 1898 in Worcester. I am trying to find out his > > burial place and/or if an obituary is available for him. Also, the death > dates > > for his wife and children. > > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > > Take Care, > > Kathleen > > ************** > > Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL > > Living. > > > > > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) > > > > ------------------------------- > > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and > the body of the message > > > ************** Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

_Vital Records of Southborough, Massachusetts, to the End of the Year 1849 - Page 142_ (http://books.google.com/books?id=f_f4q58dhZYC&pg=PA142&dq=Capt.+David+Allen+&+Lydia+M.+Swain&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1) by Southborough (Mass.), Southborough, Mass - 1903 Nov. n, 1797. SWAIN, Lydia M. and Capt. David A. Allen of Barnstable, Dec. 20, 1835. a full google book online **************Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL Living. (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/ 2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598)

Kathleen, Went back and pursued things a little more. Hattie's birth name was Harriet. She was b. Dec. 22, 1853 in Nantucket to James and Sarah Ann. On her marriage record it is listed as Harriet. She and David were both 18. FOUND - Frank H. Allen was b. July 3, 1872 in Worcester to David A. and Hattie W. Thompson. David was a cashier at the time. As David and Harriet got married on Feb. 1, I'd say Frank was just a shade premature. :-))) Maybe there was a reason for David changing his name to James. Too many Davids. Both his father and father-in-law were David. Good luck. :-) John & Jodi Massachusetts Vital Records Project Administrators - http://MA-VitalRecords.org > -------- Original Message -------- > Subject: [MAWORCES] ALLEN in Worcester > From: KGiusti639@aol.com > Date: Sat, March 01, 2008 3:38 pm > To: MAWORCES@rootsweb.com > Hi: > I am researching the family of James Allen and Hattie W. Thompson, they were > married 1 FEB 1872 in Cambridge, MA. At that time his name was David A. Allen. > In 1874, he changed his name to James Allen. James and Hattie had the > following children in Worcester: > Frank Allen born 3 JUN 1872 > Carrie Allen born 22 MAY 1874 > James Allen died on 12 MAY 1898 in Worcester. I am trying to find out his > burial place and/or if an obituary is available for him. Also, the death dates > for his wife and children. > Any help would be greatly appreciated. > Take Care, > Kathleen > ************** > Ideas to please picky eaters. Watch video on AOL > Living. > > (http://living.aol.com/video/how-to-please-your-picky-eater/rachel-campos-duffy/2050827?NCID=aolcmp00300000002598) > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MAWORCES-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message