Angela, Although from a different set of Marshall ancestors, I have a Marshall ancestor in possibly the same circumstances. In Maryland, where mine were from it was the law that a child born out of wedlock took the surname of the mother. I have a James Boswell who was the son of Richard Marshall and Mary Boswell, only Richard made it easier for us in later generations by saying in his will that James Boswell was his "begotten" son. So.. it is possible that Sarah (daughter of James & Martha Gilliam) had Ida Mae and Lizzie Ann out of wedlock. It's also possible that the father may have been Mr. Marshall (since Ida's death certificate listed that as her mother's surname) or Mr. Marshall could just have been another lucky man to have married you ancestor. Sorry that I don't have actual knowledge of your family, but your hypothesis is certainly possible. v/r, Terrell Marshall

Hi Terrell, I am family F and working on all this. Can you please send me the first message that you replied to? I can not find it Anyone in Family F needs to please send me their lines. This DNA site guy is not doing anything. I have nearly 75% with the middle name of a mother or grandfather etc. I believe it was a way for them to let us figure this all out. huge chart on here some Family F is not sharing and it would be very helpful if they did 2-3 lines are not DNA but I am certain they do connect DNA site: http://www.chipster.us/AaronMarshallDNAline/default.htm In my line there is a Mahlon Marshall. In another family, there is another Mahlon Marshall off of James Lamborn Marshall b. 1794 and James married a Gillingham which would be Gilliam This James father is Moses (claimed from Germany) however his wife was sister of another lamborn who married John Marshall b. 1735 and he goes back to the Youlgrave England John Marshall. So I do not think Moses was from Germany. My great grandpa for some reason put Spain and Poland for his parents so the census means nothing. It was after the Civil War so maybe he was hit in the head or something ;) If you can send me that message or forward this to her I would appreciate it. Joe Marshall Columbus Ohio rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=aaronmarshel1740 marshall DNA: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~marshalldna/MarshallDNA1/ -----Original Message----- From: Terrell Marshall < To: MARSHALL@rootsweb.com Sent: Sun, 20 Apr 2008 4:07 pm Subject: [MARSHALL] [Marshall] Ida Mae/Lizzie Ann Gilliam and mother Sarah, Marshall Angela, Although from a different set of Marshall ancestors, I have a Marshall ancestor in possibly the same circumstances. In Maryland, where mine were from it was the law that a child born out of wedlock took the surname of the mother. I have a James Boswell who was the son of Richard Marshall and Mary Boswell, only Richard made it easier for us in later generations by saying in his will that James Boswell was his "begotten" son. So.. it is possible that Sarah (daughter of James & Martha Gilliam) had Ida Mae and Lizzie Ann out of wedlock. It's also possible that the father may have been Mr. Marshall (since Ida's death certificate listed that as her mother's surname) or Mr. Marshall could just have been another lucky man to have married you ancestor. Sorry that I don't have actual knowledge of your family, but your hypothesis is certainly possible. v/r, Terrell Marshall ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARSHALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Terrell, I believe we come from the same family of Marshalls. Was Richard's father Thomas Marshall? If so, then Richard and my ancestor, Martin Marshall could be brothers. Joyce groovygrammy@insightbb.com Huntingburg, Indiana "snip" I have a James Boswell who was the son of Richard Marshall and Mary Boswell, only Richard made it easier for us in later generations by saying in his will that James Boswell was his "begotten" son.

most of these are all separated out here, I am trying all the William's John's James' Richard Robert Thomas Martin etc., you who have studied this family know what I mean Family F by DNA....there are common ancestors in the past that can be found http://www.chipster.us/AaronMarshallDNAline/default.htm just a few family groups not sure of please share your gap fillers!!!! this is a big puzzle...BIG also there are DNA members of Famliy F (and others) who are not sharing, what is up with that??? Why pay the money and not help figure this out?? I don't get it. Are some of you mad that you are not in a certain line? don't be mad that you are not of CJ's line, be happy you are in what appears to be the largest and oldest, full of pioneers who made/started a whole lot of the towns back then. I just had a guy who wrote and told me he found an old Bible and there is a Joshua Marshall with a father Jonathan. Ties in with Throckmorton. Not sure what fam he is but it shows that there is much to be found. No one had this Joshua's father's name!! I will post that info in a separate post when he sends it to me. Joe Marshall gggg grandson Aaron Marshall b. abt 1750 10th Virginia Militia 1776 ggggg grandson Col. John Marshel r[EVOL]ution calling http://www.MiscellaneaMarescalliana.org rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=aaronmarshel1740 DNA site: http://www.chipster.us/AaronMarshallDNAline/default.htm marshall DNA: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~marshalldna/MarshallDNA1/ -----Original Message----- From: Joyce Underwood <groovygrammy@insightbb.com> To: marshall@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, 22 Apr 2008 5:52 pm Subject: [MARSHALL] Richard Marshall Terrell, I believe we come from the same family of Marshalls. Was Richard's father Thomas Marshall? If so, then Richard and my ancestor, Martin Marshall could be brothers. Joyce groovygrammy@insightbb.com Huntingburg, Indiana "snip" I have a James Boswell who was the son of Richard Marshall and Mary Boswell, only Richard made it easier for us in later generations by saying in his will that James Boswell was his "begotten" son. ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARSHALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

if you have or find any info on this man please post it under this one :) In 1646, Fort Henry on the Appomattox with six hundred acres attached was granted to Captain Abraham Wood, Fort James on the Chickahominy with four hundred acres to Thomas Rolfe, and Fort Royal with six hundred acres to Captain Roger Marshall, in return for which each was to maintain a band of rangers for the defence of these fortified posts.2 http://www.dinsdoc.com/bruce-1-8.htm Author: Bruce, Philip A. Title: Economic History of Virginia in the Seventeenth Century: An Inquiry into the Material Condition of the People, Based on Original and Contemporaneous Records. Citation: New York: MacMillan and Co., 1896

LAWS OF VIRGINIA, OCTOBER, 1646 −−− 21st CHARLES 1st. And it is further enacted, That Capt. Roger Marshall shall have and enjoy for himselfe and his heires for ever the ffort Royall alias Ricahack ffort with sixe hundred acres of land adjoyning to the same, with all houses and edifices belonging to the said forte and all boats and amunition belonging to the said ffort; provided that he said Capt. Marshall shall keepe and maintayne ten men vpon the place during the terme and time of three yeares, during which time he the said Capt. Marshall for himselfe and the said tem men are exempted from publique taxes. http://www.vagenweb.org/hening/vol01-13.htm Papers Relating to the Early History of Maryland - Google Books Result by Sebastian Ferris Streeter - 1876 - History - 315 pages ... Fort Royal, or Rickahock, on the Pain unkey, with six hundred acres, was granted to Capt. Roger Marshall, to be guarded by ten men, and inducements were ... http://books.google.com/books?id=0Cp63c_t-j8C&pg=PA85&lpg=PA85&dq=Fort+Royal++Captain+%22Roger+Marshall%22&source=web&ots=GO2ADNiAEr&sig=_eRx0Ilb3hU3BDy9r1WCBhfjRT8&hl=en Nicholas served under Capt Roger Marshall at Mattapony Garrison (Fort Mattapony, Fort Royal). In the fall of 1683, Nicholas & Samuel discharged from the British Army - chose to stay in VA. Nicholas Gentry (I) md Lucy Cornelius. Their son, Nicholas II tized 30 May 1697 at St Peter's Parish in New Kent Co VA. http://archiver.rootsweb.ancestry.com/th/read/KYLAUREL/1997-10/0877018214 Economic History of Virginia in the Seventeenth Century: An ... - Google Books Result by Philip Alexander Bruce - 1896 - Virginia ... Fort James on the Chicka- hominy with four hundred acres to Thomas Rolfe, and Fort Royal with six hundred acres to Captain Roger Marshall, in return for ... http://books.google.com/books?id=jUkOAAAAIAAJ&pg=PA511&lpg=PA511&dq=%22Fort+Royal%22++%22Roger+Marshall%22&source=web&ots=5yDlAgGq34&sig=Om1mvMeDaT95FHQXsbWtBqNCc6Q&hl=en JSTOR: Historical and Genealogical Notes Fort Royal to Capt. Roger Marshall, Fort Charles to Capt. Thomas Harris, Fort James to Lieut. Thomas Rolfe, and Fort Henry to Capt. Abraham Wood. ... Historical and Genealogical Notes The William and Mary Quarterly, Vol. 7, No. 2 (Oct., 1898), pp. 127 Published by: Omohundro Institute of Early American History and Culture http://links.jstor.org/sici?sici=0043-5597(189810)1%3A7%3A2%3C126%3AHAGN%3E2.0.CO%3B2-O Joe Marshall gggg grandson Aaron Marshall b. abt 1750 10th Virginia Militia 1776 ggggg grandson Col. John Marshel r[EVOL]ution calling http://www.MiscellaneaMarescalliana.org rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=aaronmarshel1740 DNA site: http://www.chipster.us/AaronMarshallDNAline/default.htm marshall DNA: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~marshalldna/MarshallDNA1/ -----Original Message----- From: Joe Marshall <thechipsrus@aol.com> To: marshall@rootsweb.com Sent: Wed, 23 Apr 2008 11:22 pm Subject: Re: [MARSHALL] Captain Roger Marshall living circa 1646 Fort Royal Virgin Mary land if you have or find any info on this man please post it under this one :) In 1646, Fort Henry on the Appomattox with six hundred acres attached was granted to Captain Abraham Wood, Fort James on the Chickahominy with four hundred acres to Thomas Rolfe, and Fort Royal with six hundred acres to Captain Roger Marshall, in return for which each was to maintain a band of rangers for the defence of these fortified posts.2 http://www.dinsdoc.com/bruce-1-8.htm Author: Bruce, Philip A. Title: Economic History of Virginia in the Seventeenth Century: An Inquiry into the Material Condition of the People, Based on Original and Contemporaneous Records. Citation: New York: MacMillan and Co., 1896 ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARSHALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi List, For those of you who are interested in these Marshall's that is being discussed on the list, I have info. on them I have collected while trying to find the parents of my Samuel Marshall, b. ca. 1750 (where?) - d. 1817/1818 Scioto Co., OH., married Frances (Fanny) Hazelrigg ca. 1772, which I still have no clue who his parents were. My computer will not provide a way for me to scan and put this info. in the body of the e-mail to share on the list and I do not know if this site will accept attachments, so hesitate to send them this way. For those of you interested please e-mail me direct and I can send them to you in attachments. Happy Hunting, Judi judiburkhardt@comcast.net

Captain Patrick Marshall was the son of James Marshall of Drumore TWP http://www.chipster.us/phpGedView/individual.php?pid=I1395&ged=marshall01.ged#content Patrick married Jane Bingham Bigham and had at least one child and others could have been of age after Patrick's death Jane married John Read Reed Patrick was killed near Battle of Brandywine 1777 In orphans court, Patrick' s child/children are not named Patrick's brother is John Marshall who became Captain John and then Col John of the Washington County PA militia, Justice of Washington CO etc. died in Richland County Ohio Patrick and John were executors of their fathers will however Patrick was killed Lieut. Thomas Niel was a member of the Fifth Company of Col. Watson's battalion, and was a powerful man physically.Capt. Patrick Marshall, of the same battalion, having been killed at the battle of Germantown, Lieut. Niel picked Marshall's body up and carried it on his back for more than a mile. This was during the heat of the engagement, when the bullets were flying fast around him. Niel's descendants have always been distinguished as stalwarts. killed at the Battle of Brandywine or Germantown 11 September 1777 possibly killed at The Battle of Chestnut Hill, December 6, 1777 in Pennsylvania Page 32 Jesse Fulton stated that he “fought in the battle of ‘Chestnut Hill' when his Captain Patrick Marshall was killed.” William Boyd was engaged at White Marsh, ... http://books.google.com/books?id=WzngnB3Z0z4C&pg=RA4-PA32 his father James shows up in docs with William McNeely alot Patrick papers have Ritchie and Porter alot 6 Dec 1768 Lancaster Co Court Patrick Carson dec'd ‎‎(76)‎‎ ex. James Carson & James Marshall PA-BAL-DIST to Johns Carson es James Carson Margaret @ Thomas White Jane @ __________Marshall Eleanor @ James Porter 1 April 1779 Lancaster Co Court James Marshall, dec'd, ‎‎(175)‎‎ MOT/o Janet Marshall, James Porter, & William Ritchie, the administrators of Patrick Marshall ‎‎(dec'd)‎‎ cit to John Marshall, the surviving executor of James to appear on Apr 17 instant to settle accounts of their administration ‎‎(Patrick had been other exec. of James)‎‎ 16 April 1779 Lancaster Co Court James Marshall, dec'd, late of Drumore Tp. yeoman ‎‎(180)‎‎ surviving executor John Marshal PA-BAL-DIST according to last will and testament 6 June 1786 Lancaster Co Orphans Court Patrick Marshall, dec'd., later of Drumore Tp., yeoman ‎‎(316)‎‎ PET/o admins John Reed and his wife Janet ‎‎(late Marshall)‎‎, James Porter, & William Ritchie: Said Patrick Marshall died intestate seized in possession of a 160a tract in Drumore tp. The deceased left lawful issue. The petitioners request to sell said property in order to pay debts and to maintain & educate the minor CHILDREN. --By previous order, the administrators were to sell the land on 28 Marsh last, however, there were no buyers. They now request a new order of sale. OBTC to sell on Oct 3 next. 9 Feb 1788 forgot to copy 15 Feb 1788 Lancaster Co Orphans Court Patrick Marshall dec'd later of Drumore PET/o admin William Ritchie John Reed said Patrick died intestate in possession of 181 ac./only child?/sell property to maintain and educate child. 25 March 1788 Lancaster Co Orphans Court Peter Marshall dec'd admin: William Ritchie, John Reed, James Porter is Peter the son of Patrick?? How about Benjamin and some others that show up in Washington Co, Cross Creek and VA pan handle? Please help me figure out Captain Patrick Marshall's children. Joe Marshall gggg grandson Aaron Marshall b. abt 1750 10th Virginia Militia 1776 ggggg grandson Col. John Marshel r[EVOL]ution calling http://www.MiscellaneaMarescalliana.org rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=aaronmarshel1740 DNA site: http://www.chipster.us/AaronMarshallDNAline/default.htm marshall DNA: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~marshalldna/MarshallDNA1/ -

While going though my Marshall folders, I also ran across the following, maybe it will help someone. There were two seperate james marshall's in Brooke Co. at the same time. One Col. James and the other james married to Nancy/Agnes Agnew : Virginians In 1800: Counties Of West Virginia. Marshal Ezekial - Monongalia James - Brooke Marshall Aron - Brooke Benjamin - Berkeley David - Berkeley James - Brooke James - Monongalia Richard - Randolph William - Berkeley William - Brooke Marshel Benjamin - Hardy Thomas - Hardy

Hi, Can anyone explain how family groups are determined for DNA test subjects? I used to think that subjects were placed in groups where there was a high level of marker matches, say 11 of 12, and where the non-matching marker varied by only 1 or 2. Probably a common haplo group was also important. I'm now unsure how scientific this process can be (I mean the arbitrary grouping of individuals not the DNA testing itself). By way of example, on the Marshall DNA Project website, Group A is shown as having 5 testees. As I read from testee 1 down to testee 5 I see the similarities and assume that's why they've been grouped together. If you look, however, at 1 and 5 in isolation they match on only 8 of 12. If results for the remaining testees were not available I presume 1 and 5 would not be in the same group. Logically this then raises the question of whether many other testees with perhaps only 8 of 12 matches may belong within a common family group but proof is just not available (ie there may be "linking" individuals who have not been tested). My next query relates to the increased use of 25, 37 and 67 marker testing. In determining family groups are the first 12 markers given more weight than remaining markers? Two individuals could match 100% on the 1st 12 but vary considerably thereafter. Would they then belong in the same family group? I have had a 67 marker test done for myself. I match on more than 12 markers with a few other testees but not necessarily the 1st 12 or even 12 consecutive markers. I find this really hard to understand. I'd love to read other people's views on this. Regards, Steve Marshall Sydney Australia

Hi , You won't find those answers on this group or the Marshall DNA site, it is on other DNA sites and School sites, etc. my caps is sticking so sorry if I miss a few Our Marshall DNA site is 1999. Still no responses from FTDNA other than "we will look into it". You would need to look around at other sources to get the info. There are lots out there. I have a link below to one page to look at. I had more than 12 markers done but he does not add them. I have people write to me and say they never have been posted. There are a bunch on there that should be in the Simon Granser Marshall line based on the numbers on one other note first, we could actually find that the ancient Marshall's did think they were related because of name. Or there could have been some adoption in 1400 or something that created another DNA line. It is only a method to see who is blood relative at some point in time. It could be from 1200's when they first started using last names. Or in some other case such as a totally different name, there could have been some adoption in 800 for all we know. We will also all have other name matches from back in time before the use of last names. Remember this, when there were not that many people, they did not use last names. They were Sir John of Essex, for example. He was the only one in that town with that name. You have to imagine a much smaller neighborhood than we have today. The help you get from it depends on when you are stuck in your tree. If you are stuck 100 years ago, you would want numbers that are nearly 100% identical. If you are stuck 500 years ago, the branches will have changed a bit. the closer you are on the tree, the closer your numbers usually are. to find the truth you must read and remember history and facts that some are not taught your haplogroup came from one person long ago, it is a fact (haplogroup is not even in the spell checker) WHEN, is another question that can not be scientifically proven It is known though, that I1b is the Normans and R1b is the Irish possibly "Picts" that were there longer than the Normans certain markers are prone to genetic mutation. others do not change at all. it has to do with where you live ie: the sun rays hitting you/ radiation. this means a higher mutation rate of those certain numbers. If you live near the equator you will have more mutation. that is a fact. when you go outside and feel the sun burning you, that is radiation. You have to take in to account that some base mutation rates are very low. some match exact because they are a father and son as noted on the charts. You would probably have to have someone in your exact branch to be an exact match with no mutation. Now if you get a lot of Xrays or something, that will possibly do it. one mutation in Group F is the first digit 15 to 14 and the 12th digit those certain numbers that do not change or not much, are probably the ones you match with every one else. sometimes those numbers are in red on charts. the ones that change more you can type in numbers here and experiment http://www.mymcgee.com/tools/yutility.html?mode=ftdna_mode I can not get this page to work on my site at the moment Joe Marshall gggg grandson Aaron Marshall b. abt 1750 10th Virginia Militia 1776 ggggg grandson Col. John Marshel r[EVOL]ution calling http://www.MiscellaneaMarescalliana.org rootsweb: http://wc.rootsweb.com/cgi-bin/igm.cgi?db=aaronmarshel1740 DNA site: http://www.chipster.us/AaronMarshallDNAline/default.htm marshall DNA: http://freepages.genealogy.rootsweb.com/~marshalldna/MarshallDNA1/ -----Original Message----- From: Stephen Marshall <smarshall@meridianfreight.com.au> To: marshall@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 2:06 am Subject: [MARSHALL] How are family groups determined in the Marshall DNA Project? Hi, Can anyone explain how family groups are determined for DNA test subjects? I used to think that subjects were placed in groups where there was a high level of marker matches, say 11 of 12, and where the non-matching marker varied by only 1 or 2. Probably a common haplo group was also important. I'm now unsure how scientific this process can be (I mean the arbitrary grouping of individuals not the DNA testing itself). By way of example, on the Marshall DNA Project website, Group A is shown as having 5 testees. As I read from testee 1 down to testee 5 I see the similarities and assume that's why they've been grouped together. If you look, however, at 1 and 5 in isolation they match on only 8 of 12. If results for the remaining testees were not available I presume 1 and 5 would not be in the same group. Logically this then raises the question of whether many other testees with perhaps only 8 of 12 matches may belong within a common family group but proof is just not available (ie there may be "linking" individuals who have not been tested). My next query relates to the increased use of 25, 37 and 67 marker testing. In determining family groups are the first 12 markers given more weight than remaining markers? Two individuals could match 100% on the 1st 12 but vary considerably thereafter. Would they then belong in the same family group? I have had a 67 marker test done for myself. I match on more than 12 markers with a few other testees but not necessarily the 1st 12 or even 12 consecutive markers. I find this really hard to understand. I'd love to read other people's views on this. Regards, Steve Marshall Sydney Australia ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARSHALL-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message