Hi Valerie You asked : > Does this mean that this notice would appear in all the Navy Lists from 1815 to 1833 when he died? That it correct. He will have been included in the alphabetical section for Lieutenants, which in later years, combined all the officers included in the Navy List for that date : he will also be included in the section for Lieutenants in order of seniority. Whilst looking for John Munro, whose name was more clearly printed than your Fred., I found him listed on page 25 of the Navy List, seniority order, for 1816 - and a few pages after the following URL, on page 92, in alphabetical order: <http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0xYYAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA3-PA88&dq=John+Munro&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z0UqUpauKaTt0gWh9YDoDA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=John%20Munro&f=false> which also includes a number of other lists from 1814, including Steel's List of the Royal Navy. Regards Paul On Fri, 6 Sep 2013 14:31:47 +0100, "Paul and Valerie" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Paul, > >Many thanks for your very informative reply to my query. I didn't have this >information from the Navy List. You mention that Fred Thompson was promoted >to Lieutenant 3 Feb 1815 in the July 1830 Navy List. Does this mean that >this notice would appear in all the Navy Lists from 1815 to 1833 when he >died? I did have (cannot remember which series it was in) from the NA a >mention that Frederick 'Passed to Lieutenant at Sheerness 6th November 1811' >although he doesn't appear as Lieutenant on any of the ranks on each voyage. >I presume that although he passed to Lieutenant, if a position of Lieutenant >isn't available on a particular voyage, then they are given whatever job is >available. I was surprised that he was given the position of Acting Master >on 3 different ships in Jamaica Jan 1807-Sept 1810 before he passed his >Lieutenant exams in 1811. > >You mention that officers on half pay were allowed, with Admiralty approval, >to take a job outside the Royal Navy. You give suggestions of what >Frederick might have been working as. I will try the NA to see if he worked >in the merchant service. Frederick served on ships in the West Indies and >the Mediteranian so he appears capable of transferring to the merchant >service. > >I'm not sure that he would have actually worked in the colonies as he >married in 1815 and his children were all born in Lambeth from 1816-1832 (9 >in all, not all surviving). This should narrow my search. > >I really appreciate all the details of the navy of the times which makes >research so much more interesting. > >kind regards >Valerie > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 10:46 AM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Royal Navy career > > > >Hi Valerie > >You may well have this already, judging by the sources you have, but, >looking at the Navy List for July 1830 I see that Frederick, or >Thompson Fred. as he was detailed, was promoted to Lieutenant 3 Feb >1815, but would presumably have been on half-pay as he's not shown as >having been appointed to a ship. One could suggest that he was one of >the lucky ones as he wasn't, as with so many of his counterparts, >discharged to shore, in that he was promoted to Lieutenant at the end >of the Napoleonic Wars, which meant that as long as he behaved himself >he was guaranteed half-pay until he died, but would remain at the beck >and call of the Admiralty. Meanwhile, with Admiralty approval, as >with many officers in the Service around this period, he could find >himself work in Civvy Street, perhaps working as a harbour master etc. >in ports around the country, or in the colonies, although some >officers found work in the service of other countries, as with >Cochrane, and went to work for countries like Chile, Brazil, and >Greece, circa the 1820s, and in Portugal and Spain, in the early >1830s, whilst others found positions as Masters of merchant vessels, >or went to live in the colonies. > >The less lucky ones were the midshipmen and master' mates and so >forth, who, not being full officers, not having received commissions >or warrants, found themselves on the beach, as was so well illustrated >in a Punch cartoon of the time, showing a midshipman shining shoes in >the City, having served his country against Napoleon for the X number >of years. But at the same time it shouldn't perhaps be forgotten that >over 100,000 naval ratings and marines were also discharged to shore >circa 1814-1817, leaving about 17,000 to man the remaining vessels. > >> I am puzzled by the different ranks or positions he held as there seems no >> particular order. > >Midshipman and Master's Mate were about equivalent ranks, whereas >Acting 2nd Master and Acting Master, were progressions from Master's >Mate, but it being war time and the promotions being Acting were >therefore only temporary. A similar sort of thing occurred during both >WWI and II, when many officers were awarded promotions of a temporary >nature, some of which were later confirmed, whilst in many cases >officers returned to their original ranks. Captain Bligh, of Bounty >fame, came up through the ranks of Master's Mate and Master, before >being promoted to Lieutenant and Captain etc. > >And as a final note, it wasn't until many years later that a formal >retirement process was introduced for all officers, so during the >period in question, apart from those who were deemed physically unfit >for sea duties, an officer could remain on half-pay until he went to >meet his Maker. > >Regards > >Paul > >On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 19:43:09 +0100, "Paul and Valerie" ><[email protected]> wrote: > >>Hi List, >> >>I am trying to find out more about the naval career of my ancestor >>Frederick Thompson, Lieutenant in the Royal Navy born 1781 died 1833. >> >>I have a copy of his service record between 1803-1815. His rank on the >>first entry is A.B serving on the 'Argo' in the West Indies. I am puzzled >>by the different ranks or positions he held as there seems no particular >>order. After the first voyage there were another 12 ships listed with 14 >>voyages (twice on the same 2 ships). His ranks ranged from Midshipman, >>Acting Master, Masters Mate and Acting 2nd Master. These ranks were not in >>any particular order. None of the rank state Lieutenant, but he passed to >>Lieutenant at Sheerness 6th November 1811. This information I found at the >>National Archives, but it was a long time ago and I cannot remember which >>series this statement about passing to Lieutenant would have been. >> >>The age of 34 seems to be young to retire from the Navy unless he was >>wounded and I'm not sure where I might find this sort of information. >> >>The only documents I have about Frederick's career is his service record >>National Archives No. ADM 9/3 RP/0885. There is a number at the top of the >>document 4534 and wonder is anyone knows what this number signifies? The >>other document relating to his career is item ref: ADM 45/3/588 which >>states that; >> >>"Frederick Thompson Lieutenant who died 22 July 1833. Notes on executors >>application for money owed by the Royal Navy." >> >>Can anyone tell me if Frederick may have continued in the Royal Navy after >>1815 when the last entry of a voyage was mentioned? >> >>I do have details of his wife and children, but very little about his life >>between 1815-1833 although I know he lived in Lambeth, Surrey from the >>entries of his children's baptisms. >> >>Any help would be much appreciated. >> >>kind regards >>Valerie Richards >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Hi Paul, Many thanks again for your help. I didn't realise you could get the Navy List on Google books although I am aware of the Lloyds List on Google books. I have just looked at Google books and found Frederick Thompson mentioned in the 1831 book (this time his name is in full) but it gives the details you gave me on 3rd Feb 1815. kind regards Valerie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 10:26 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] Royal Navy career Hi Valerie You asked : > Does this mean that this notice would appear in all the Navy Lists from > 1815 to 1833 when he died? That it correct. He will have been included in the alphabetical section for Lieutenants, which in later years, combined all the officers included in the Navy List for that date : he will also be included in the section for Lieutenants in order of seniority. Whilst looking for John Munro, whose name was more clearly printed than your Fred., I found him listed on page 25 of the Navy List, seniority order, for 1816 - and a few pages after the following URL, on page 92, in alphabetical order: <http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=0xYYAAAAMAAJ&pg=RA3-PA88&dq=John+Munro&hl=en&sa=X&ei=Z0UqUpauKaTt0gWh9YDoDA&redir_esc=y#v=onepage&q=John%20Munro&f=false> which also includes a number of other lists from 1814, including Steel's List of the Royal Navy. Regards Paul On Fri, 6 Sep 2013 14:31:47 +0100, "Paul and Valerie" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Paul, > >Many thanks for your very informative reply to my query. I didn't have >this >information from the Navy List. You mention that Fred Thompson was >promoted >to Lieutenant 3 Feb 1815 in the July 1830 Navy List. Does this mean that >this notice would appear in all the Navy Lists from 1815 to 1833 when he >died? I did have (cannot remember which series it was in) from the NA a >mention that Frederick 'Passed to Lieutenant at Sheerness 6th November >1811' >although he doesn't appear as Lieutenant on any of the ranks on each >voyage. >I presume that although he passed to Lieutenant, if a position of >Lieutenant >isn't available on a particular voyage, then they are given whatever job is >available. I was surprised that he was given the position of Acting Master >on 3 different ships in Jamaica Jan 1807-Sept 1810 before he passed his >Lieutenant exams in 1811. > >You mention that officers on half pay were allowed, with Admiralty >approval, >to take a job outside the Royal Navy. You give suggestions of what >Frederick might have been working as. I will try the NA to see if he >worked >in the merchant service. Frederick served on ships in the West Indies and >the Mediteranian so he appears capable of transferring to the merchant >service. > >I'm not sure that he would have actually worked in the colonies as he >married in 1815 and his children were all born in Lambeth from 1816-1832 (9 >in all, not all surviving). This should narrow my search. > >I really appreciate all the details of the navy of the times which makes >research so much more interesting. > >kind regards >Valerie > > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Friday, September 06, 2013 10:46 AM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Royal Navy career > > > >Hi Valerie > >You may well have this already, judging by the sources you have, but, >looking at the Navy List for July 1830 I see that Frederick, or >Thompson Fred. as he was detailed, was promoted to Lieutenant 3 Feb >1815, but would presumably have been on half-pay as he's not shown as >having been appointed to a ship. One could suggest that he was one of >the lucky ones as he wasn't, as with so many of his counterparts, >discharged to shore, in that he was promoted to Lieutenant at the end >of the Napoleonic Wars, which meant that as long as he behaved himself >he was guaranteed half-pay until he died, but would remain at the beck >and call of the Admiralty. Meanwhile, with Admiralty approval, as >with many officers in the Service around this period, he could find >himself work in Civvy Street, perhaps working as a harbour master etc. >in ports around the country, or in the colonies, although some >officers found work in the service of other countries, as with >Cochrane, and went to work for countries like Chile, Brazil, and >Greece, circa the 1820s, and in Portugal and Spain, in the early >1830s, whilst others found positions as Masters of merchant vessels, >or went to live in the colonies. > >The less lucky ones were the midshipmen and master' mates and so >forth, who, not being full officers, not having received commissions >or warrants, found themselves on the beach, as was so well illustrated >in a Punch cartoon of the time, showing a midshipman shining shoes in >the City, having served his country against Napoleon for the X number >of years. But at the same time it shouldn't perhaps be forgotten that >over 100,000 naval ratings and marines were also discharged to shore >circa 1814-1817, leaving about 17,000 to man the remaining vessels. > >> I am puzzled by the different ranks or positions he held as there seems >> no >> particular order. > >Midshipman and Master's Mate were about equivalent ranks, whereas >Acting 2nd Master and Acting Master, were progressions from Master's >Mate, but it being war time and the promotions being Acting were >therefore only temporary. A similar sort of thing occurred during both >WWI and II, when many officers were awarded promotions of a temporary >nature, some of which were later confirmed, whilst in many cases >officers returned to their original ranks. Captain Bligh, of Bounty >fame, came up through the ranks of Master's Mate and Master, before >being promoted to Lieutenant and Captain etc. > >And as a final note, it wasn't until many years later that a formal >retirement process was introduced for all officers, so during the >period in question, apart from those who were deemed physically unfit >for sea duties, an officer could remain on half-pay until he went to >meet his Maker. > >Regards > >Paul > >On Fri, 30 Aug 2013 19:43:09 +0100, "Paul and Valerie" ><[email protected]> wrote: > >>Hi List, >> >>I am trying to find out more about the naval career of my ancestor >>Frederick Thompson, Lieutenant in the Royal Navy born 1781 died 1833. >> >>I have a copy of his service record between 1803-1815. His rank on the >>first entry is A.B serving on the 'Argo' in the West Indies. I am puzzled >>by the different ranks or positions he held as there seems no particular >>order. After the first voyage there were another 12 ships listed with 14 >>voyages (twice on the same 2 ships). His ranks ranged from Midshipman, >>Acting Master, Masters Mate and Acting 2nd Master. These ranks were not >>in >>any particular order. None of the rank state Lieutenant, but he passed to >>Lieutenant at Sheerness 6th November 1811. This information I found at the >>National Archives, but it was a long time ago and I cannot remember which >>series this statement about passing to Lieutenant would have been. >> >>The age of 34 seems to be young to retire from the Navy unless he was >>wounded and I'm not sure where I might find this sort of information. >> >>The only documents I have about Frederick's career is his service record >>National Archives No. ADM 9/3 RP/0885. There is a number at the top of >>the >>document 4534 and wonder is anyone knows what this number signifies? The >>other document relating to his career is item ref: ADM 45/3/588 which >>states that; >> >>"Frederick Thompson Lieutenant who died 22 July 1833. Notes on executors >>application for money owed by the Royal Navy." >> >>Can anyone tell me if Frederick may have continued in the Royal Navy >>after >>1815 when the last entry of a voyage was mentioned? >> >>I do have details of his wife and children, but very little about his life >>between 1815-1833 although I know he lived in Lambeth, Surrey from the >>entries of his children's baptisms. >> >>Any help would be much appreciated. >> >>kind regards >>Valerie Richards >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message