Hi Liz When a man died whilst serving in the Navy I have a feeling that it wasn't until the carnage of WWI that their widows began to receive pensions, which was sparked by the many thousands of wives and families who suddenly found themselves destitute, and that until this date the naval widow would normally only receive a gratuity equal to one year's basic pay. So I would guess that would be something over £600, plus anything that might have been raised on board his ship through the sale of his effects ie his uniform etc., which, since it was an auction, could sometimes produce quite a bit of money, items often being put back in for sale again,suitable personal effects being returned to his wife ! The monies paid usually being deducted from the ledger over a period of time. I gather that widows were usually advised to buy an annuity with the lump sum with a view to maximising their income and ensuring that the money wasn't frittered away, but I would suppose the amount paid out would depend on her age, and life expectancy etc., which might explain why she would appear not to have needed to work ? Regards Paul On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 19:06:02 +1000, "liz and john" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Paul, > >Thank you for the additional information. I had no idea that the rates of >pay were so different and it seems as though Archer was earning a good wage. >Would his wife Lucy have recieved a pension after his death? I ask this as >on both the 1901 and 1911 census she does not show an occupation. > >The article about Ships Carpenters I found very interesting. They had so >much to do. I was especially fascinated with the section about the keys. > >Thank you very much for your information and help > >Take care > >Liz >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 5:49 PM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler > > >Hi Liz > >Despite the title he was a senior Chief Petty Officer - see the >following web page for details of pay, from which you may be able draw >a comparison with other ratings ; ie compare rates of pay : > >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Navy_List_1879/Ratings_Pay.html > >He would have assisted the Ship's Carpenter in his work : see the >following web page to see the Instructions to the Carpenter in 1913, >which refers to many aspects of HM ships in the latter part of the >19th Century : > >http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI/Gunner_etc.html#CARPENTER > >and Archer would have supervised the Carpenter's Crew, ie the men >involved in the maintenance of much of the ship, and the safety >thereof. Its a little difficult to say precisely what he would have >done because the Navy was still in the transitional stage of changing >from a sailing navy, through vessels which combined both sail and >steam, to steam only. The latter slowly becoming the norm, although >it wasn't until the early 1900s that sail was abandoned completely, >following a number of serious accidents with sail training ships and >much loss of life, plus the many accidents caused by men still often >being required to work aloft i.e. there were still a few senior >officers in the service who still had a mind set more suited to >Nelson's time, than a period when experiments were being carried out >with steam turbines, and ships were armed with 15" breach loaded guns, >and the Dreadnought battleships were soon to take their place in the >fleet!. > >So the carpenter's job was slowly changing as steel replaced wood and >composite ships, combining iron and wood, and eventually the >Carpenter's job changed sufficiently for their title to be changed to >Shipwright. I remember chatting with a Shipwright in the 1950s, who >had served through WWII, and said that he was a Jack of all Trades, >often working with iron, wood, and other metals, as his branch >replaced all the skilled Artizans who served in the Navy at the time >your relative was in the service, but who were, even at that date, >slowly being phased out, which was completed in the 1950s, although we >still had a sailmaker on board the fleet maintenance ship Triumph when >we were in Far East in 1971-2, making and maintaining the awnings that >ships of the Fleet used when in the tropics, along with other work. > >Regards > >Paul > >On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:40:53 +1000, "liz and john" ><[email protected]> wrote: > >>Hi Paul, >>Thank you for the information. about the Hearty. On the 1891 census he is a >>Carpenters mate. Have you any idea what that would entail. >>I am going to download his Sevice Record tomorrow and hopefully that may >>shed some light on whether or not he was in the navy when he died in 1900 >>at >>the age of 39. >>Thanks once again >>Liz >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 8:04 PM >>Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler >> >> >>Hi all >> >>The Hearty would have been commissioned several times during her time >>in the service. In fact one could probably say for each period that >>she was in commission. Hearty is often described as a Special Service >>Vessel, but seems to have spent much of her time on survey duties, >>which probably meant commissions of 2-3 years or so, with the summers >>spent surveying, and the winters writing up the findings from the >>summer and amending charts etc. for the Hydrographer's department, who >>would draw up the revised charts for mariners. Between commissions she >>would be put into reserve at her Home Port. >> >>The term "Mobilization of the Fleet" suggests that this was for the >>annual fleet exercises, which, except for those vessels that were >>already in commission, means that many vessels were taken out of >>reserve for the purposes of the exercise, perhaps for a period of >>about 6 weeks, once they had been stored ; had gone through the trials >>and tribulations of the exercise, usually around the coasts of the >>British Isles, as they were in those days, and then back to their home >>ports for the couple of weeks or so that it would take to put the >>vessels back into reserve again, many of the crews being reservists, >>coastguard personnel etc. who would only appear for the couple of >>weeks at sea. >> >>I see I've made a few notes, which include a couple of her >>commissioning dates i.e. there will probably be several others, often >>noted in later copies of the Navy List in those days : >> >>7 Sep 1886 Commissioned at Sheerness >>1890 Particular Service (possibly surveying service?) >>26 Jun 1897 Present at the Naval Review at Spithead in celebration of >>the Diamond Jubilee. >>1 April 1912 Recommissioned at Chatham >>Aug 1914 Surveying Service (at Home and Abroad) >> >>The newspaper, The Times, of London, often available via local >>libraries, which you can access from your home computer, carried a >>column in those days which often noted the commissioning dates and >>movements of many RN ships, and might give you an idea regarding where >>Archer's ships may have been operating. ISTR the column was usually >>headed Naval Intelligence, or Naval and Military Intelligence etc., >>but sightings of HM ships were often noted by Royal Mail steamers >>etc., so it is often worth doing a general search when the name of the >>ship doesn't generate too much garbage to search through. >> >>Regards >> >>Paul >> >>On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 05:10:21 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] >>wrote: >> >>> >>>Hi again >>> >>>There seem to be slightly different ideas of which year HMS Hearty was >>>commissioned, but the Liverpool Mercury of July 17 1888, under >>>"Mobilization of >>> the Fleet" has various ships including HMS Rodney and HMS Invincible >>>leaving for Loch Swilly (I think, rather hard to read the name of the >>>Loch) >>>There is an interesting paragraph in the Bristol Mercury and Daily Post >>>of >>>May 29 1890. Apparently mingled among the other vessels off the coast of >>>Ireland were 2 showing the Dutch flag, "observed fishing" but actually >>>engaged in smuggling spirits , tobacco etc. HMS Hearty "has arrived at >>>Queenstown" (now Cobh) and "it is rumoured she is to be sent in pursuit >>>of >>>the >>>smugglers". >>>There is a photo on _www.sheernessheritagecentre.com_ >>>(http://www.sheernessheritagecentre.com) >>> >>>Clare >>>Oxford#UK >>> >>> >>>I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex >>> >>>On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright >>> >>>On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a >>>Carpenters Mate. >>> >>>Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I >>>can find out more about his service. >>> >>>He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>Liz >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >>http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes >>in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Thank you Paul, I expect That if Lucy did buy an annuity iy would have made life a lot easier. also bu 1911 the 2 children sill at home were both working and would have been able to contribute to the house hold finances. The eldest child appears to be in the RN so maybe he contributed as well. Once again thank you for your help take care Liz ----- Original Message ----- From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> To: <[email protected]> Sent: Wednesday, September 11, 2013 9:42 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler Hi Liz When a man died whilst serving in the Navy I have a feeling that it wasn't until the carnage of WWI that their widows began to receive pensions, which was sparked by the many thousands of wives and families who suddenly found themselves destitute, and that until this date the naval widow would normally only receive a gratuity equal to one year's basic pay. So I would guess that would be something over £600, plus anything that might have been raised on board his ship through the sale of his effects ie his uniform etc., which, since it was an auction, could sometimes produce quite a bit of money, items often being put back in for sale again,suitable personal effects being returned to his wife ! The monies paid usually being deducted from the ledger over a period of time. I gather that widows were usually advised to buy an annuity with the lump sum with a view to maximising their income and ensuring that the money wasn't frittered away, but I would suppose the amount paid out would depend on her age, and life expectancy etc., which might explain why she would appear not to have needed to work ? Regards Paul On Tue, 10 Sep 2013 19:06:02 +1000, "liz and john" <[email protected]> wrote: >Hi Paul, > >Thank you for the additional information. I had no idea that the rates of >pay were so different and it seems as though Archer was earning a good >wage. >Would his wife Lucy have recieved a pension after his death? I ask this as >on both the 1901 and 1911 census she does not show an occupation. > >The article about Ships Carpenters I found very interesting. They had so >much to do. I was especially fascinated with the section about the keys. > >Thank you very much for your information and help > >Take care > >Liz >----- Original Message ----- >From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >To: <[email protected]> >Sent: Monday, September 09, 2013 5:49 PM >Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler > > >Hi Liz > >Despite the title he was a senior Chief Petty Officer - see the >following web page for details of pay, from which you may be able draw >a comparison with other ratings ; ie compare rates of pay : > >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Navy_List_1879/Ratings_Pay.html > >He would have assisted the Ship's Carpenter in his work : see the >following web page to see the Instructions to the Carpenter in 1913, >which refers to many aspects of HM ships in the latter part of the >19th Century : > >http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI/Gunner_etc.html#CARPENTER > >and Archer would have supervised the Carpenter's Crew, ie the men >involved in the maintenance of much of the ship, and the safety >thereof. Its a little difficult to say precisely what he would have >done because the Navy was still in the transitional stage of changing >from a sailing navy, through vessels which combined both sail and >steam, to steam only. The latter slowly becoming the norm, although >it wasn't until the early 1900s that sail was abandoned completely, >following a number of serious accidents with sail training ships and >much loss of life, plus the many accidents caused by men still often >being required to work aloft i.e. there were still a few senior >officers in the service who still had a mind set more suited to >Nelson's time, than a period when experiments were being carried out >with steam turbines, and ships were armed with 15" breach loaded guns, >and the Dreadnought battleships were soon to take their place in the >fleet!. > >So the carpenter's job was slowly changing as steel replaced wood and >composite ships, combining iron and wood, and eventually the >Carpenter's job changed sufficiently for their title to be changed to >Shipwright. I remember chatting with a Shipwright in the 1950s, who >had served through WWII, and said that he was a Jack of all Trades, >often working with iron, wood, and other metals, as his branch >replaced all the skilled Artizans who served in the Navy at the time >your relative was in the service, but who were, even at that date, >slowly being phased out, which was completed in the 1950s, although we >still had a sailmaker on board the fleet maintenance ship Triumph when >we were in Far East in 1971-2, making and maintaining the awnings that >ships of the Fleet used when in the tropics, along with other work. > >Regards > >Paul > >On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 22:40:53 +1000, "liz and john" ><[email protected]> wrote: > >>Hi Paul, >>Thank you for the information. about the Hearty. On the 1891 census he is >>a >>Carpenters mate. Have you any idea what that would entail. >>I am going to download his Sevice Record tomorrow and hopefully that may >>shed some light on whether or not he was in the navy when he died in 1900 >>at >>the age of 39. >>Thanks once again >>Liz >>----- Original Message ----- >>From: "Paul Benyon" <[email protected]> >>To: <[email protected]> >>Sent: Saturday, September 07, 2013 8:04 PM >>Subject: Re: [MAR] Archer Wheeler >> >> >>Hi all >> >>The Hearty would have been commissioned several times during her time >>in the service. In fact one could probably say for each period that >>she was in commission. Hearty is often described as a Special Service >>Vessel, but seems to have spent much of her time on survey duties, >>which probably meant commissions of 2-3 years or so, with the summers >>spent surveying, and the winters writing up the findings from the >>summer and amending charts etc. for the Hydrographer's department, who >>would draw up the revised charts for mariners. Between commissions she >>would be put into reserve at her Home Port. >> >>The term "Mobilization of the Fleet" suggests that this was for the >>annual fleet exercises, which, except for those vessels that were >>already in commission, means that many vessels were taken out of >>reserve for the purposes of the exercise, perhaps for a period of >>about 6 weeks, once they had been stored ; had gone through the trials >>and tribulations of the exercise, usually around the coasts of the >>British Isles, as they were in those days, and then back to their home >>ports for the couple of weeks or so that it would take to put the >>vessels back into reserve again, many of the crews being reservists, >>coastguard personnel etc. who would only appear for the couple of >>weeks at sea. >> >>I see I've made a few notes, which include a couple of her >>commissioning dates i.e. there will probably be several others, often >>noted in later copies of the Navy List in those days : >> >>7 Sep 1886 Commissioned at Sheerness >>1890 Particular Service (possibly surveying service?) >>26 Jun 1897 Present at the Naval Review at Spithead in celebration of >>the Diamond Jubilee. >>1 April 1912 Recommissioned at Chatham >>Aug 1914 Surveying Service (at Home and Abroad) >> >>The newspaper, The Times, of London, often available via local >>libraries, which you can access from your home computer, carried a >>column in those days which often noted the commissioning dates and >>movements of many RN ships, and might give you an idea regarding where >>Archer's ships may have been operating. ISTR the column was usually >>headed Naval Intelligence, or Naval and Military Intelligence etc., >>but sightings of HM ships were often noted by Royal Mail steamers >>etc., so it is often worth doing a general search when the name of the >>ship doesn't generate too much garbage to search through. >> >>Regards >> >>Paul >> >>On Sat, 7 Sep 2013 05:10:21 -0400 (EDT), [email protected] >>wrote: >> >>> >>>Hi again >>> >>>There seem to be slightly different ideas of which year HMS Hearty was >>>commissioned, but the Liverpool Mercury of July 17 1888, under >>>"Mobilization of >>> the Fleet" has various ships including HMS Rodney and HMS Invincible >>>leaving for Loch Swilly (I think, rather hard to read the name of the >>>Loch) >>>There is an interesting paragraph in the Bristol Mercury and Daily Post >>>of >>>May 29 1890. Apparently mingled among the other vessels off the coast of >>>Ireland were 2 showing the Dutch flag, "observed fishing" but actually >>>engaged in smuggling spirits , tobacco etc. HMS Hearty "has arrived at >>>Queenstown" (now Cobh) and "it is rumoured she is to be sent in pursuit >>>of >>>the >>>smugglers". >>>There is a photo on _www.sheernessheritagecentre.com_ >>>(http://www.sheernessheritagecentre.com) >>> >>>Clare >>>Oxford#UK >>> >>> >>>I have Archer Wheeler in my family. He was b 1862 Brighlingsea, Essex >>> >>>On the 1881 census he is at home and his occupation is Shipwright >>> >>>On the 1891 census he is in Harwich on the vessel "Hearty" and is a >>>Carpenters Mate. >>> >>>Does this mean that he was in the RN ? and if so is there any way that I >>>can find out more about his service. >>> >>>He died in the June q of 1900 leaving a wife and 3 children. >>> >>>Regards >>> >>>Liz >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>>------------------------------- >>>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >>http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes >>in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message >50° 33' N, 2° 26' W >http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes >in the subject and the body of the message > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >[email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message