My Great Great Great Grandfather was 1st Mate on a ship that sank off Portugal - Some of the crew accused the Captain of deliberately sinking the ship when he refused to pay them 3 months wages (pay normally stopped when the ship sank). He was exonerated at the inquiry but he accusers were tried at the old Bailey and they have the transcript of the trial which describes in detail the sinking. The captain had his certificate endorsed for 3 months but it was difficult to see what he had actually done wrong, the ship fell to pieces under them in heavy weather, they only had access to ports on a lee shore which were difficult to enter in the heavy weather. I suspect the board of inquiry may have felt he could have managed his crew better. It wouldn't surprise me if he had his certificate endorsed for a few months. Papers always needed copy and often repeated inquiry findings almost verbatim - if you have access to the St John's newspapers you might find some reporting on the inquiry a few weeks after the wreck Gavin On 12/11/2013 20:20, Jennifer Murray wrote: > Thank you to everyone for their feedback. Would the proceedings of the inquiry be at the National Archives? > > My apologies for the mis-post, I didn't realize the image would not go through. Here is a some of the text from a contemporary newspaper clipping. In summary, Captain Enon was the holder of a UK Master's ticket and had been a master of sailing ships for over 10 years. They ran into an iceberg off Cape Spear, Newfoundland (the area is notorious for ice) but he ordered an abandon ship in time to ensure no loss of life. Nearest port was St. John's, so part of the British Empire at that time. > > "Geisha" a Total Loss" - Evening Telegram June 16, 1909 > The Schooner Geisha, Captain Enon, 25 days from Cadiz via Fowey, becamea total wreck about two miles to the eastward of Cape Spear last night. The ship left Cadiz on May 12th and had fine weather and favorable windstill about 150 miles to the eastward of the Grand Banks, when fog and icebergs were encountered. Last Thursday night the vessel ran into a berg and carried away her bowsprit and jiboom, as well as all her top canvas.... The Geisha went on her way and all went well till last night at 10:30 when she got carried by the tide against an iceberg. Capt. Enon thought that the vessel would collide with the berg and decided to take to theboats. They had not rowed fifty yards from the vessel when she collidedwith the berg, which toppled over and sunk the ship. When the crew had rowed about half way to the Narrows [the entrance to St. John's Harbour] they boarded the schooner Jessie B. .... Geisha was a schooner of 130 tons and was built at Appledore in 1905 for R. ! > Cock& Sons. She has been freighting in the Newfoundland trade for the past 2 years. The ship and cargo were insured. > > >> From: [email protected] >> Subject: MARINERS Digest, Vol 8, Issue 358 >> To: [email protected] >> Date: Tue, 12 Nov 2013 01:00:10 -0700 >> >> >> >> Today's Topics: >> >> 1. Re: What would be the fate of the captain of a ship that >> sank? (Graham Read) >> 2. Re: What would be the fate of the captain of a ship that >> sank? (Ros Dunning) >> 3. question (alex) >> >> >> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >> >> Message: 1 >> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:18:41 +0000 >> From: Graham Read<[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [MAR] What would be the fate of the captain of a ship >> that sank? >> To: [email protected] >> Message-ID: >> <[email protected]om> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 >> >> There almost certainly would have been an enquiry. Who ran the enquiry >> would depend on where the incident occurred. If say in the River Plate, it >> might be important to decide the exact site and the exact international >> frontier, as well as where international waters started. Then, was the >> Captain the holder of a Master's ticket from the UK [Board of Trade]. If a >> captain was censured by a foreign govt enquiry, the BoT would have held its >> own hearing to decide whether to uphold the verdict and, if thought >> necessary. Typical would be suspension of his 'ticket' for a fixed >> period. >> The outcome, as with anything legal, would depend on the events. If he ran >> a liner aground in good weather, with significant loss of life,and was >> drunk at the time, he would be lucky to get a job as an OS. If the censure >> was less, he might sail as a second mate on his 1st mate's ticket, unless >> the Board ruled otherwise. >> If he were British, and there was a BoT enquiry and report, this should be >> available. >> >> Regards >> >> Graham >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Jennifer Murray<[email protected]>wrote: >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I recently read the following item in an on-line newspaper archive. Date >>> of publication was June 1909. What would be the likely fate of the captain >>> of this ship? Would he lose his captain's ticket? Would there have been an >>> inquiry? Would he have been able to find work again as a sea captain? >>> >>> Jennifer. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Western Star (Corner Brook, N.L.), 1909-06-16: " Geisha " >>> a Total Loss >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 2 >> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 16:40:20 -0000 >> From: "Ros Dunning"<[email protected]> >> Subject: Re: [MAR] What would be the fate of the captain of a ship >> that sank? >> To:<[email protected]> >> Message-ID:<[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >> >> My Great Great Uncle was captain of a ship that sank (Captain Thomas >> Dunning) There was a Board of Trade inquiry and he was suspended for three >> months. The report of the Inquiry (1904) still exists >> >> Ros >> >> PS He may have been drunk at the time but no-one actually says so! >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: [email protected] [mailto:[email protected]] >> On Behalf Of Graham Read >> Sent: 11 November 2013 16:19 >> To: [email protected] >> Subject: Re: [MAR] What would be the fate of the captain of a ship that >> sank? >> >> There almost certainly would have been an enquiry. Who ran the enquiry >> would depend on where the incident occurred. If say in the River Plate, it >> might be important to decide the exact site and the exact international >> frontier, as well as where international waters started. Then, was the >> Captain the holder of a Master's ticket from the UK [Board of Trade]. If a >> captain was censured by a foreign govt enquiry, the BoT would have held its >> own hearing to decide whether to uphold the verdict and, if thought >> necessary. Typical would be suspension of his 'ticket' for a fixed period. >> The outcome, as with anything legal, would depend on the events. If he ran >> a liner aground in good weather, with significant loss of life,and wasdrunk >> at the time, he would be lucky to get a job as an OS. If the censure was >> less, he might sail as a second mate on his 1st mate's ticket, unless the >> Board ruled otherwise. >> If he were British, and there was a BoT enquiry and report, this should be >> available. >> >> Regards >> >> Graham >> >> >> On Mon, Nov 11, 2013 at 3:18 PM, Jennifer Murray >> <[email protected]>wrote: >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> I recently read the following item in an on-line newspaper archive. >>> Date of publication was June 1909. What would be the likely fate of >>> the captain of this ship? Would he lose his captain's ticket? Would >>> there have been an inquiry? Would he have been able to find work again as >>> >> a sea captain? >> >>> Jennifer. >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> Western Star (Corner Brook, N.L.), 1909-06-16: " Geisha " >>> a Total Loss >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------- >>> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >>> >>> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 3 >> Date: Mon, 11 Nov 2013 20:47:06 +0100 >> From: "alex"<[email protected]> >> Subject: [MAR] question >> To:<[email protected]> >> Message-ID:<[email protected]> >> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" >> >> Does anyone knowks if the ship?s log of the German steamship D. Columbus was saved and is held anywhere ? >> Alex >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> To contact the MARINERS list administrator, send an email to >> [email protected] >> >> To post a message to the MARINERS mailing list, send an email to [email protected] >> >> __________________________________________________________ >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] >> with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body of the >> email with no additional text. >> >> >> End of MARINERS Digest, Vol 8, Issue 358 >> **************************************** >> > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to [email protected] with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > >