Hi Wendy The Deaths at Sea record on findmypast gives some useful information. The Ethel was of Liverpool. ship's number 41,709, leaving in 1860 Frederick Grooel died on 21st April 1861 of dysentery. He was due £11/16/11 wages and sale of his possessions. It is likely that a crew agreement exists for this voyage and, if you are lucky , an official log book. The agreement would give his age and birthplace (but sometimes rather vaguely, like "Wales") You would need to go to the National Archives to find out. I could do this for you, but need a wet Saturday! Best wishes Clare (Oxford UK) >2 >Date:Thu, 30 Apr 2015 10:22:22 +0000 From: Wendy Hall-Robertson<intelligentwend@hotmail.com> >Subject: [MAR] Fredk Grooel Or Grogel - BirthYear -- Death Year 1861 -- Vessel Ethel -- BT 153 Archive Ref -To: Marinerinfo >request <mariners-l@rootsweb.com> Message-ID:<DUB130-W578D1AEE471AFE4291AE4AB0D60@phx.gbl>Content-Type: text/plain;charset="iso-8859-1"Hi everyoneDoes anyone have any information relating toDeaths at Sea for this man and this vessel please:Fredk Grooel Or Grogel -Birth Year -- Death Year 1861 -- Vessel Ethel -- BT 153 Archive Ref - KindregardsWendy ------------------------------