Hi All, Adi helped me to get the following information on one of our old family ships from the " Dictionary of Tyne Ships" 2899 Mary (1808 - 1845) Snow 282 tons 92.9x27 feet O/N ?? Ex "Fadrenclandet" 2-12-1807: Condemned by High Court of the Admiralty. Prize taken prior to hostilities against Denmark by private ship-of-war The Lion. 14.5.1808: Certificate of Freedom granted to London. P/R Plymouth (1808/45) Owners, various up to 1829-Owners: 9-3-1829 James Gibson (Butcher) N-Shields 16-7-1845 Collided Can someone please help me to get the some more information where I can find: 1. The history of this event- I cannot find anything on the internet I tried other spelling of the Danish ship also 2. What happens to the O/N as it seems to be ignored even in Lloyds records afterwards? 3. Where can one find more detail on ship accidents and details of a ship wreck incident? Regards, Albie

The British system of fixed Official Numbers only began in 1855. Up until then the reference was by serial number for each myear at the port in question (eg the 45th registration at Plymouth in 1808). In that period, the registration would frequently be renewed ("registered de novo") due to any change of details, often for changes of ownership of 64ths, and clearly whenever there was a change of port of registry. It is possible to trace the sequence of registations, starting with the 1808 Plymouth one in the original transcripts of the register books at TNA, Kew (series BT 107) as each registration shows the previous one, if any, and the closing endorsement shows the next one, or other reason for closure (eg total loss). At some point she was re-rigged from a snow to a brig. She is the latter in the 1845 Lloyd's Register: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oTwSAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0Ftz6zT302-gFzEJxA5c6C&lr=#v=onepage&q&f=false She is no. 433 of "M" You should be able to work back from there using online editions linked from http://www.lr.org/en/research-and-innovation/historical-information/lloyds-register-of-ships-online/ Unfortunately this is a "Mary", by far the commonest name - but at least it is easy to look for "prize" in the place of build column. This MARY's loss is recorded in The Standard (London), Friday, August 22, 1845 (repeating an article from the Tyne Mercury): <<<< LOSS OF THE BRIG MARY, NORTH SHIELDS On Sunday morning last, part of the crew of the Mary, of North Shields, consisting of the captain (Mr. Greaves), the first and second mates, and three boys, arrived at North Shields by the Vesta, steamer, from Leith. They report the loss of their vessel, bound from Quebec with timber, on the 16th of July, off the banks of Newfoundland, in Lat 46 8 N, long 38.30 W, in consequence of collision with the ship New York Packet, bound from Greenock to Quebec, with passengers. The crew were rescued by the brig Norval, and landed at St John's. >>>> I think that the Tyne Mercury article must be more extensive as it is also given as a source in The Hull Packet and East Riding Times of Friday, August 29, 1845. After the mention of the New York packet, it continues: <<<< The accident occurred at midnight, after the mate's watch had gone below. The New York Packet struck the Mary abaft the starboard fore chains, cutting her down to the water's edge, upon which the crew of the latter vessel jumped aboard the former, in expectation of their ship going down. On the following day, observing their ship not much injured, the crew of the Mary returned, and remained on board two days, after which it was found necessary to abandon the ship, in consequence of her shattered condition. The crew were then rescued by the brig Norval and landed at St John's. At the time of the accident the weather was very thick, and a strong gale of wind blowing. >>>> and as a postlude, from The Morning Chronicle (London), Saturday, August 30, 1845: <<<< Quebec, July 31: The New York packet, arrived here today, was in contact with the brig Mary,of North Shields, Quebec for London, on the 16th inst., in lat. 47, long. 48; lost bowsprit, foreyards &c, and sprang a leak. >>>> Was the longitude 38 or 48W. 48W is about 100 miles east of Newfoundland, 38W is pretty much mid-Atlantic. I would think the former more likely. Although the reports refer to "part" of the crew returning, to me the implication is that all had been rescued. Others may well have signed on to other ships, or retiurned home by different routes or to different destinations. There may well be other reports, particularly in the Tyneside newspapers and in Lloyd's List. David On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Albie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: > Hi All, > > Adi helped me to get the following information on one of our old family > ships from the " Dictionary of Tyne Ships" > > 2899 Mary (1808 - 1845) Snow 282 tons 92.9x27 feet O/N ?? > Ex "Fadrenclandet" > 2-12-1807: Condemned by High Court of the Admiralty. Prize taken prior to > hostilities against Denmark by private ship-of-war The Lion. > 14.5.1808: Certificate of Freedom granted to London. P/R Plymouth (1808/45) > Owners, various up to 1829-Owners: 9-3-1829 James Gibson (Butcher) > N-Shields > 16-7-1845 Collided > > > Can someone please help me to get the some more information where I can > find: > 1. The history of this event- I cannot find anything on the internet I > tried > other spelling of the Danish ship also > 2. What happens to the O/N as it seems to be ignored even in Lloyds records > afterwards? > 3. Where can one find more detail on ship accidents and details of a ship > wreck incident? > > Regards, > Albie > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thank you very much David! Albie From: David Asprey [mailto:davidjasprey@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2015 12:30 PM To: Albie; mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Private Ship- of- war taken another as prize 1807 The British system of fixed Official Numbers only began in 1855. Up until then the reference was by serial number for each myear at the port in question (eg the 45th registration at Plymouth in 1808). In that period, the registration would frequently be renewed ("registered de novo") due to any change of details, often for changes of ownership of 64ths, and clearly whenever there was a change of port of registry. It is possible to trace the sequence of registations, starting with the 1808 Plymouth one in the original transcripts of the register books at TNA, Kew (series BT 107) as each registration shows the previous one, if any, and the closing endorsement shows the next one, or other reason for closure (eg total loss). At some point she was re-rigged from a snow to a brig. She is the latter in the 1845 Lloyd's Register: http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oTwSAAAAYAAJ <http://books.google.co.uk/books?id=oTwSAAAAYAAJ&printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0Ftz6zT302-gFzEJxA5c6C&lr=#v=onepage&q&f=false> &printsec=frontcover&dq=editions:0Ftz6zT302-gFzEJxA5c6C&lr=#v=onepage&q&f=false She is no. 433 of "M" You should be able to work back from there using online editions linked from http://www.lr.org/en/research-and-innovation/historical-information/lloyds-register-of-ships-online/ Unfortunately this is a "Mary", by far the commonest name - but at least it is easy to look for "prize" in the place of build column. This MARY's loss is recorded in The Standard (London), Friday, August 22, 1845 (repeating an article from the Tyne Mercury): <<<< LOSS OF THE BRIG MARY, NORTH SHIELDS On Sunday morning last, part of the crew of the Mary, of North Shields, consisting of the captain (Mr. Greaves), the first and second mates, and three boys, arrived at North Shields by the Vesta, steamer, from Leith. They report the loss of their vessel, bound from Quebec with timber, on the 16th of July, off the banks of Newfoundland, in Lat 46 8 N, long 38.30 W, in consequence of collision with the ship New York Packet, bound from Greenock to Quebec, with passengers. The crew were rescued by the brig Norval, and landed at St John's. >>>> I think that the Tyne Mercury article must be more extensive as it is also given as a source in The Hull Packet and East Riding Times of Friday, August 29, 1845. After the mention of the New York packet, it continues: <<<< The accident occurred at midnight, after the mate's watch had gone below. The New York Packet struck the Mary abaft the starboard fore chains, cutting her down to the water's edge, upon which the crew of the latter vessel jumped aboard the former, in expectation of their ship going down. On the following day, observing their ship not much injured, the crew of the Mary returned, and remained on board two days, after which it was found necessary to abandon the ship, in consequence of her shattered condition. The crew were then rescued by the brig Norval and landed at St John's. At the time of the accident the weather was very thick, and a strong gale of wind blowing. >>>> and as a postlude, from The Morning Chronicle (London), Saturday, August 30, 1845: <<<< Quebec, July 31: The New York packet, arrived here today, was in contact with the brig Mary,of North Shields, Quebec for London, on the 16th inst., in lat. 47, long. 48; lost bowsprit, foreyards &c, and sprang a leak. >>>> Was the longitude 38 or 48W. 48W is about 100 miles east of Newfoundland, 38W is pretty much mid-Atlantic. I would think the former more likely. Although the reports refer to "part" of the crew returning, to me the implication is that all had been rescued. Others may well have signed on to other ships, or retiurned home by different routes or to different destinations. There may well be other reports, particularly in the Tyneside newspapers and in Lloyd's List. David On Sun, May 3, 2015 at 9:02 AM, Albie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: Hi All, Adi helped me to get the following information on one of our old family ships from the " Dictionary of Tyne Ships" 2899 Mary (1808 - 1845) Snow 282 tons 92.9x27 feet O/N ?? Ex "Fadrenclandet" 2-12-1807: Condemned by High Court of the Admiralty. Prize taken prior to hostilities against Denmark by private ship-of-war The Lion. 14.5.1808: Certificate of Freedom granted to London. P/R Plymouth (1808/45) Owners, various up to 1829-Owners: 9-3-1829 James Gibson (Butcher) N-Shields 16-7-1845 Collided Can someone please help me to get the some more information where I can find: 1. The history of this event- I cannot find anything on the internet I tried other spelling of the Danish ship also 2. What happens to the O/N as it seems to be ignored even in Lloyds records afterwards? 3. Where can one find more detail on ship accidents and details of a ship wreck incident? Regards, Albie ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

Hi Albie, Not sure if you are interested in exploring the capture of the Fadrenclandet, but can confirm that the privateer Lion appears to have been a busy "bee," bringing quite a few vessels heading to and departing from north European ports, back to her home port of Plymouth, according to the Ship News in The Times newspaper. Had a quick look through 1806-7 for items which had been satisfactorily indexed, but couldn't find her bringing in the Fadrenclandet, nor any mention in the on-line London Gazette, where details of prize money etc. are detailed, but the quality of print in those days, at times, hardly lends itself to being OCR'd for indexing purposes, or for reading by the mark I eyeball, for that matter ;-), and a name like the Fadrenclandet must lend itself to various phonetic spellings, although, by the look of it your spelling is correct per Danish literature. But if you have access to The Times and time to spare you might find it a useful exercise, although you may need to be inventive to find a mention in the London Gazette : https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices Regards Paul On Sun, 3 May 2015 10:02:10 +0200, Albie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: >Hi All, > >Adi helped me to get the following information on one of our old family >ships from the " Dictionary of Tyne Ships" > >2899 Mary (1808 - 1845) Snow 282 tons 92.9x27 feet O/N ?? >Ex "Fadrenclandet" >2-12-1807: Condemned by High Court of the Admiralty. Prize taken prior to >hostilities against Denmark by private ship-of-war The Lion. >14.5.1808: Certificate of Freedom granted to London. P/R Plymouth (1808/45) >Owners, various up to 1829-Owners: 9-3-1829 James Gibson (Butcher) N-Shields > 16-7-1845 Collided > > >Can someone please help me to get the some more information where I can >find: >1. The history of this event- I cannot find anything on the internet I tried >other spelling of the Danish ship also >2. What happens to the O/N as it seems to be ignored even in Lloyds records >afterwards? >3. Where can one find more detail on ship accidents and details of a ship >wreck incident? > >Regards, >Albie > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Hi Paul, Thank you very much for your kind reply. I could not get any positive results either but also had a look in the British Newspaper Archives and after abandoning the search for the Fadrenclandet I tried the Lion and I cannot believe that this ship was such an operator and how did they remain victorious for such a long time! Excuse my ignorance but would such privateers be registered so that one can get a little more information from the Loyds registers? Regards, Albie -----Original Message----- From: Paul Benyon [mailto:pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com] Sent: Monday, May 04, 2015 1:39 AM To: Albie; mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: Re: [MAR] Private Ship- of- war taken another as prize 1807 Hi Albie, Not sure if you are interested in exploring the capture of the Fadrenclandet, but can confirm that the privateer Lion appears to have been a busy "bee," bringing quite a few vessels heading to and departing from north European ports, back to her home port of Plymouth, according to the Ship News in The Times newspaper. Had a quick look through 1806-7 for items which had been satisfactorily indexed, but couldn't find her bringing in the Fadrenclandet, nor any mention in the on-line London Gazette, where details of prize money etc. are detailed, but the quality of print in those days, at times, hardly lends itself to being OCR'd for indexing purposes, or for reading by the mark I eyeball, for that matter ;-), and a name like the Fadrenclandet must lend itself to various phonetic spellings, although, by the look of it your spelling is correct per Danish literature. But if you have access to The Times and time to spare you might find it a useful exercise, although you may need to be inventive to find a mention in the London Gazette : https://www.thegazette.co.uk/all-notices Regards Paul On Sun, 3 May 2015 10:02:10 +0200, Albie via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: >Hi All, > >Adi helped me to get the following information on one of our old family >ships from the " Dictionary of Tyne Ships" > >2899 Mary (1808 - 1845) Snow 282 tons 92.9x27 feet O/N ?? >Ex "Fadrenclandet" >2-12-1807: Condemned by High Court of the Admiralty. Prize taken prior >to hostilities against Denmark by private ship-of-war The Lion. >14.5.1808: Certificate of Freedom granted to London. P/R Plymouth >(1808/45) Owners, various up to 1829-Owners: 9-3-1829 James Gibson (Butcher) N-Shields > 16-7-1845 Collided > > >Can someone please help me to get the some more information where I can >find: >1. The history of this event- I cannot find anything on the internet I >tried other spelling of the Danish ship also 2. What happens to the O/N >as it seems to be ignored even in Lloyds records afterwards? >3. Where can one find more detail on ship accidents and details of a >ship wreck incident? > >Regards, >Albie > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html