Hi Piers and Adi, Many thanks for your replies. You have kindly given me several avenues to explore. Having looked at these briefly I can see that it will be a gradual process of finding one of the ships, finding where the records are held, viewing (or ordering) the information which will hopefully give me another ship to repeat the process! I appreciate that this list is not for 'normal' genealogy but I was wondering (hoping!) if any mariner's records would have 'extra' info - such as next of kin, address, place of birth etc - similar to military service personnel records. all the best,Anne > Hi Anne > > Just to expand upon Adi's post... as she says it looks as if Emmanuel > served on JOHN MILES for several years (at least 1915-17). If you get > copies of the 1915 crew lists from the National archives (you only really > need the earlier one) it will give you the date of the particular > voyages. We know that before the earlier of those he was also on the > JOHN MILES (as it is shown as his previous ship), so it is then a question > of working back through the crew lists for that ship voyage by voyage until > his previous ship becomes something different - and then get THAT agreement > and work back from there. Success isn't guaranteed because if he took a > long break between voyages, or signed on a foreign ship, or gave false > details at any point (for example to disguise the fact that he had deserted > somewhere along the way) then the chain will stretch and could be broken, > but IN THEORY you might be able to follow his entire career back to the > point you lost him. > > There may be other agreements in the NA (they have only indexed 1915 at > that level of details), but the Maritime History Archive in Newfoundland > have several crew agreements for the ship back to 1908: see > https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/viewcombinedcrews.php?Official_No=125659 - > note that they don't seem to be aware of the 1915 ones in the NA so there > may be others. The MHA can do some of the legwork for you and their > research prices for looking for agreements are not exorbitant, though of > course it all adds up. One can ask them to work back through the lists for > you and only copy those agreements in which a Emmanuel appears (and > obviously, to stop with the list on which he joins the ship). > > "The Ships and Mariners of Shoreham" by Henry Cheal Jr might be of interest > - it is a bit frustrating as there is no index and original copies are > expensive, but I think you can buy reprints at abebooks. I glanced at it > just now but no names sprang out at me. > > Cheers > Piers > > > > On 4 September 2015 at 01:44, Mme_N_Carmichael via <mariners@rootsweb.com> > wrote: > > > Hello Anne, > > Erm ... The Mariners List concerns itself only with mariners. Whether any > > of John (1844) or James (1846) or William (1848) were brothers to your > > Emmanuel/Emanuel (1856?) is beyond the scope of this list. You will have to > > establish that or not through general genealogy sources. > > For researching mariners, I suggest that you "lurk" on this list for a > > while and skim all the posts. You'll pick up many sources and tips that way. > > That said, here are two bits: > > 1) A John Tester born 1844, Shoreham, was cook and seaman on the DARE of > > Portsmouth, ON (= Official Number) 35218, during the first 6 months of > > 1866. He had previously been on the JOHN SHARP of Shoreham.Source: CLIP > > Crew List Index > > http://www.crewlist.org.uk/crew/crew.php?target=tester&searchtype=Exact&initial=&dob=&submit=+Search+ > > 2) Your Emmanuel appears to have been on the JOHN MILES, ON 125659, for a > > few years. He made two voyages on her as cook and steward in 1915.Source: > > free online 1915 merchant navy crew lists > > http://www.nationalarchives.gov.uk/first-world-war/search-merchant-navy-1915-crew-lists/?utm_source=The+National+Archives&utm_medium=email&utm_campaign=5900568_July+2015+enewsletter&utm_content=1915+Crew+Lists > > > > > Regards,Adi

Hello Anne, You wrote:"I appreciate that this list is not for 'normal' genealogy but I was wondering (hoping!) if any mariner's records would have 'extra' info - such as next of kin, address, place of birth etc - similar to military service personnel records."  The answer is a *qualified* yes. Some of the sources do have spaces for that sort of information, but they are not consistently enough filled in to be depended upon. Now I apologize for reading too much into your very first post where you wrote:"I'm new to this list, although not to genealogy. My great grandfather, Emmanuel Tester, was a merchant seaman most of his life and died in 1917 on the SS John Miles. I know a reasonable amount about him through censuses etc but am only just starting to explore his, and possibly his brothers', merchant navy connections. " Since you had already seen the census-es, that suggested that you had already been through Ancestry and FindMyPast, both of whom have several sets of TNA merchant navy records. Have you? If not, try there next. To best of my knowledge, FMP is always a pay site, but Ancestry can be accessed for free on the in-house computers of many public libraries. It won't be as easy to find records to trace the career of a cook-and-steward as it would have been if he were a master, mate or engineer, (rueful smile), but then ..... 'twas ever thus - the officers get lots of ink, and the other ranks get next-to-none. Do you already have your Emmanuel's WWI medal card? You can buy it over the internet for 3.30 GBP by credit card.http://discovery.nationalarchives.gov.uk/results/r?_st=adv&_aq=Emmanuel%20tester&_dss=range&_ro=any Regards,Adi  <!--#yiv2813925176 .yiv2813925176hmmessage P{margin:0px;padding:0px;}#yiv2813925176 body.yiv2813925176hmmessage{font-size:12pt;font-family:Calibri;}-->

Knew I'd seen them online somewhere! Crew Agreements are the thing. Go to this page and have a look at examples of Foreign and Home Trade Crew Agreements: https://www.mun.ca/mha/mlc/toolkit/agreements/ If you can track down the crew agreements for the relevant people, they should with luck state the birthplaces and ages which should enable you to link the various people of the right name, to people born in the relevant places at that time via BMD records. Having found the Official Numbers of the vessels you want, you can search at the Newfoundland website to see what agreements they have. https://www.mun.ca/mha/holdings/searchcombinedcrews.php Note that MHA try to tell you if other institutions have agreements, but some agreements in other places may not have been picked up by MHA, also note that MHA file by the year the voyage ended, whereas other institutions tend to file by the year it started! Cheers Piers On 5 September 2015 at 15:16, Anne Capewell <alc_goytre@hotmail.com> wrote: > Hi Piers and Adi, > > Many thanks for your replies. > > You have kindly given me several avenues to explore. Having looked at > these briefly I can see that it will be a gradual process of finding one of > the ships, finding where the records are held, viewing (or ordering) the > information which will hopefully give me another ship to repeat the process! > > I appreciate that this list is not for 'normal' genealogy but I was > wondering (hoping!) if any mariner's records would have 'extra' info - such > as next of kin, address, place of birth etc - similar to military service > personnel records. > > all the best, > Anne >