Can anyone tell me the route that the 'John And Lucy' would have taken from Liverpool to Australia in 1854? She left Liverpool 9 June 1854 and arrived Port Phillip on 13 September 1854. I understand she carried 494 passengers and also a cargo of books and lime. I really want to know if she would have stopped en route and picked up more passengers? Thanks for any help. Lynden West Sussex, UK

Hi Lynden If you look her up in "Lloyd's List", the shipping newspaper - which when I last needed it was still available on microfilm at the Guildhall library in London, but may also be available at a maritime museum nearer to you (try asking at Shoreham?) - you should be able to find out exactly where she called and when. John & Lucy was a full-rigged sailing ship and her route would have borne little relation to a steamship's route in 1915 because a steamship could take a direct route between two points whereas John & Lucy would have had to shape her course according to the best winds. >From Liverpool, it is possible that she might have called at a port in Ireland, but I think it is unlikely. More likely Irish passengers went over to Liverpool to join her. The sailings to Australia I have researched were about 20 years later, but I think that the following would not be too far wrong in 1854 Having proceeded via the Irish sea, she would head in a generally south-westerly direction , possibly seeing Madeira, before changing direction south-south-west once she was clear of the risk of running into Africa, aiming very roughly for the sticky-out bit of Brazil. Having crossed the equator and before reaching Brazil she would turn south-east so as to pass within a few hundred miles south of the Cape of Good Hope. Continuing into 40-odd degrees south, she would then head due east until coming up to the north towards her destination. This route was determined by the prevailing winds, and could have been departed from if she needed supplies or repairs en route - but their aim would probably be to do the voyage in one hop. "Log of Logs" vol 1 shows that an anonymous diary for the 1854 voyage to Melbourne exists somewhere (see the key in the book - I haven't looked up what the cryptic reference means). See entry under the vessel name at https://zenodo.org/record/6901/files/LogofLogsVol1.pdf . There is more information for an 1857 voyage, and another for an 1858 voyage referred to in volume 3 which gives a brief outline of events. In 1858 she doesn't seem to have called elsewhere as far as one can tell from the summary, and in 1854, she took a little over 3 months on the voyage. This is longer than the passages being made by iron ships and ex- tea clippers in the 1870s which were doing well at 70-odd days so I suspect just means that she was a bit slow or that the weather didn't favour her, but still made a non-stop voyage as it doesn't seem long enough to call at places on the way. But Lloyds List and the diaries should make it clear. The page from which you can access all 3 volumes is https://zenodo.org/record/6901#.VbjYInmh1mN In the 1870s and later passenger diaries tend to quote the ship's exact noon position as given by the master and the same may hold good for 1854; if so you may be able to trace her exact route (by eg placing position marks on Google Earth) if you want. Cheers Piers On 29 July 2015 at 12:05, <Hughes@lists2.rootsweb.com> wrote: > Can anyone tell me the route that the 'John And Lucy' would have taken > from Liverpool to Australia in 1854? She left Liverpool 9 June 1854 and > arrived Port Phillip on 13 September 1854. I understand she carried 494 > passengers and also a cargo of books and lime. > > I really want to know if she would have stopped en route and picked up > more passengers? > > Thanks for any help. > Lynden > > West Sussex, UK > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Tibits from 1854 newspaper reports: 9/6 sailed Liverpool 11/6 seen off Bardsey, West Wales 1/7 seen in 13°N 26°W On Wed, Jul 29, 2015 at 12:05 PM, <Hughes@lists2.rootsweb.com> wrote: > Can anyone tell me the route that the 'John And Lucy' would have taken > from Liverpool to Australia in 1854? She left Liverpool 9 June 1854 and > arrived Port Phillip on 13 September 1854. I understand she carried 494 > passengers and also a cargo of books and lime. > > I really want to know if she would have stopped en route and picked up > more passengers? > > Thanks for any help. > Lynden > > West Sussex, UK > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Hi Lynden You are still in the period when the Trade Winds decided the route to be taken by a sailing vessel, so was probably to the east coast of South America, occasionally via Madeira, or the Western Isles as they were sometimes known, then onwards for water and provisions, the port, e.g. Pernambuco, Bahia, or Rio, perhaps depending on the time of the year and whether fever was a problem, or not, such news often being picked up from other vessels spoken with en route. Your vessel doesn't appear to have been on a government subsidised voyage, so presumably, whether passengers would have been embarked en route would depend on the instructions given to the Master by the ship's owners. Whilst a course was steered for many years via the Cape of Good Hope, by this date most vessels, after leaving the port on the East Coast of S America, or giving it a miss altogether, would have sailed down into the upper reaches of the Roaring Forties, on what was known as the Great circle route, picking up the westerly trades, as they headed for the Antipodean ports, thus, not only reducing the distance travelled, but picking up stronger and more predictable winds, usually reducing the earlier passage times, via the Cape of Good Hope, by as much as a month or more : https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roaring_Forties Regards Paul On Wed, 29 Jul 2015 12:05:05 +0100, Hughes@lists2.rootsweb.com, Lynden M via <mariners@rootsweb.com> wrote: >Can anyone tell me the route that the 'John And Lucy' would have taken from Liverpool to Australia in 1854? She left Liverpool 9 June 1854 and arrived Port Phillip on 13 September 1854. I understand she carried 494 passengers and also a cargo of books and lime. > >I really want to know if she would have stopped en route and picked up more passengers? > >Thanks for any help. >Lynden > >West Sussex, UK > > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html