Yes, Kathleen, he did die at sea 14 Dec. 1857. I had to download it again to double check. Please forget thinking about "Masters" and "Mates". When a man sat a higher exam, he got a higher certificate, but the certificate number stayed the same. In bad times when there were too many masters chasing positions on too few ships, it was not unusual for a certificated master to take a job as a mate. What matters here is the certificate *number*. So you start at the beginning and check every possibility. Your man is image 74 of pdf 2 of BT 124/7. It's noted there that he died at sea so there is no point in looking for him in the other possible subfiles namely BT 124/8 and BT 124/3. That's all. Regards,Adi From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 3:24 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove I think I am understandably confused... Under Captains (which I believe him to be based on his Ancestry M&M certificate), for BT 124/7 the range was too high to include 46.200 (see below)BT 124/7 1850 - 1860 BT 124. Recorded Service: 1851 - 1860 Certificate Numbers: 43000 - 46999 So should I be looking under Mates? (I note that at various times John Nutman was both but his service record was listed under Mates, maybe because that was his last official status). Should we always check both Captains and Mates, because after this I will have others to look up as well (e.g., WIlliam Reed's 2 sons who have M&M certificates though for later years like the 1860s/70s) If William Reed did not die at sea, then we definitely have intrigue. He was supposed to have died at sea Dec 14, 1857. I have a copy of his will, proved April, 1958 with my 3rd GR GM as executrix/inheritor of an estate worth £450 and he has a marker in Ilfracombe, Devon in Trinity Church cemetery stating that he died at sea on the schooner Volunteer on the date above... Thanks so much for virtually holding my hand through this process, Kathleen -----Original Message----- From: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca> To: mktgmaven2001 <mktgmaven2001@aol.com>; mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2015 12:03 pm Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove P.S. Oops. No, apparently didn't die at sea. Apologies. Regards,Adi From: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca> To: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com>; "mariners@rootsweb.com" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 2:41 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Hello Kathleen, Erm ... I think that you did not look in chronological order. I also looked him up to make sure that I was giving instructions in the correct sequence. Yes, he *is* in the second pdf of BT 124/7 at the top of a page. The information in the columns up to 1856 are in code, after that he is shown as being on VOLUNTEER. He also died at sea. Have another go, lass. Regards,Adi From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 1:19 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Hi Adi, Okay, I think I understand how it works now, thank you. Unfortunately, the certificate number entries jumped from 46.198 to 46.201 so William Reed's is not listed in the service record for some reason. I double checked his number 46.200 on Ancestry on the actual M&M certificate and it's correct. Kathleen