Hello again Kathleen, Ah - so much easier with the Certificate Number. Yes, he was on RINGDOVE. Yes, he died in Calcutta 12 August 1863. He was certified as Mate in London on 27 January 1851.  He also held Pilotage Certificate #354,359. The source for this information is The National Archives file BT 124/21 which is a free download of 2 pdf's. You'll find him in pdf 1, image #236 of 328, bottom of the page. You'll get some other vessel names there for him. In 1857 and 1859 he was captain on RINGDOVE (which coincidentally had ON 1857). In 1860, he appears to have been mate on the SIR ALLAN MACNAB of Liverpool, ON 32,465 and also in 1861. In 1862, he was mate on the AFRICA of Liverpool, ON 16,213. At least that is how I decipher the scrawls. Is it possible that after he was arrested in that 1858 court case that his Master's certificate was suspended? FindMyPast has the "Deaths at Sea" files from TNA. Have you looked there? Regards,Adi   From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 12:04 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Hi Adi,  | Name | John Nutman | | Estimated Age | 29 | | Birth Date | 11 Apr 1828 | | Birth Place | Liverpool, Lancashire | | Issue Date | 27 Jan 1857 | | Issue Port | London | | Certificate Number | 64.716 |    -----Original Message----- From: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca> To: mktgmaven2001 <mktgmaven2001@aol.com>; mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove You are most welcome Kathleen, but ... erm ... you have so far omitted to give us a most important piece of information - his certificate number.What is it please?  He, unfortunately, does not appear in Lloyd's Captains Registers at London Metropolitan Archives. I did look for him in the index here:http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm Regards,Adi   From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Adi, This reply was very helpful, thank you! It will save me time and money in not ordering those films, which if they are thesame as on FMP. Those I saw a couple of weeks ago and they were not super informative. Also the article you foundthat mentions the parentage of Capt John Nutman of the Ringdove, pretty much rules him out as my John Nutman Jr. as far as I can tell. Given the content of the articles I have seen about the Master of the Ringdove, can't say I am too sad about that (smile). My John Nutman Jr. born 1828 and a Mariner, could still be the John Nutman b. 1828 that died in Calcutta, so will keep trying that angle.His Masters & Mates certificate from 1851 lists him born in Liverpool, but I did find that baptismal record in Pembrokeshire, Wales,which looks like an excellent match. I know the one listed on the M&M certificate is mine. As I said, he lists my 3rd GR GF's (William Reed) ship The Volunteer and they were brothers-in-law. Here is the detail of the Dallas Herald article Dallas Herald. (Dallas, Tex.), Vol. 5, No. 14, Ed. 1 Saturday, August 23, 1856)that was not included in the link I posted about the return of the runaway slaves. Kathleen

Oh thank you so much! I did the free weekend Find My Past offered a couple weeks ago but I can pay a subscription for a month to check the deaths at sea. Can you please check all my 3rd GR GF's details with his certificate number? Name: William Reed Estimated Age: 45 Birth Date: 6 Jul 1806 Issue Date: 1 Jan 1851 Issue Port: London Certificate Number: 46.200 -----Original Message----- From: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca> To: mktgmaven2001 <mktgmaven2001@aol.com>; mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tue, Oct 13, 2015 1:09 am Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Hello again Kathleen, Ah - so much easier with the Certificate Number. Yes, he was on RINGDOVE. Yes, he died in Calcutta 12 August 1863. He was certified as Mate in London on 27 January 1851. He also held Pilotage Certificate #354,359. The source for this information is The National Archives file BT 124/21 which is a free download of 2 pdf's. You'll find him in pdf 1, image #236 of 328, bottom of the page. You'll get some other vessel names there for him. In 1857 and 1859 he was captain on RINGDOVE (which coincidentally had ON 1857). In 1860, he appears to have been mate on the SIR ALLAN MACNAB of Liverpool, ON 32,465 and also in 1861. In 1862, he was mate on the AFRICA of Liverpool, ON 16,213. At least that is how I decipher the scrawls. Is it possible that after he was arrested in that 1858 court case that his Master's certificate was suspended? FindMyPast has the "Deaths at Sea" files from TNA. Have you looked there? Regards, Adi From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Tuesday, October 13, 2015 12:04 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Hi Adi, Name John Nutman Estimated Age 29 Birth Date 11 Apr 1828 Birth Place Liverpool, Lancashire Issue Date 27 Jan 1857 Issue Port London Certificate Number 64.716 -----Original Message----- From: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca> To: mktgmaven2001 <mktgmaven2001@aol.com>; mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove You are most welcome Kathleen, but ... erm ... you have so far omitted to give us a most important piece of information - his certificate number. What is it please? He, unfortunately, does not appear in Lloyd's Captains Registers at London Metropolitan Archives. I did look for him in the index here: http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm Regards, Adi From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Adi, This reply was very helpful, thank you! It will save me time and money in not ordering those films, which if they are the same as on FMP. Those I saw a couple of weeks ago and they were not super informative. Also the article you found that mentions the parentage of Capt John Nutman of the Ringdove, pretty much rules him out as my John Nutman Jr. as far as I can tell. Given the content of the articles I have seen about the Master of the Ringdove, can't say I am too sad about that (smile). My John Nutman Jr. born 1828 and a Mariner, could still be the John Nutman b. 1828 that died in Calcutta, so will keep trying that angle. His Masters & Mates certificate from 1851 lists him born in Liverpool, but I did find that baptismal record in Pembrokeshire, Wales, which looks like an excellent match. I know the one listed on the M&M certificate is mine. As I said, he lists my 3rd GR GF's (William Reed) ship The Volunteer and they were brothers-in-law. Here is the detail of the Dallas Herald article Dallas Herald. (Dallas, Tex.), Vol. 5, No. 14, Ed. 1 Saturday, August 23, 1856) that was not included in the link I posted about the return of the runaway slaves. Kathleen