Adi, This reply was very helpful, thank you! It will save me time and money in not ordering those films, which if they are the same as on FMP. Those I saw a couple of weeks ago and they were not super informative. Also the article you found that mentions the parentage of Capt John Nutman of the Ringdove, pretty much rules him out as my John Nutman Jr. as far as I can tell. Given the content of the articles I have seen about the Master of the Ringdove, can't say I am too sad about that (smile). My John Nutman Jr. born 1828 and a Mariner, could still be the John Nutman b. 1828 that died in Calcutta, so will keep trying that angle. His Masters & Mates certificate from 1851 lists him born in Liverpool, but I did find that baptismal record in Pembrokeshire, Wales, which looks like an excellent match. I know the one listed on the M&M certificate is mine. As I said, he lists my 3rd GR GF's (William Reed) ship The Volunteer and they were brothers-in-law. Here is the detail of the Dallas Herald article Dallas Herald. (Dallas, Tex.), Vol. 5, No. 14, Ed. 1 Saturday, August 23, 1856) that was not included in the link I posted about the return of the runaway slaves. Kathleen -----Original Message----- From: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca> To: mktgmaven2001 <mktgmaven2001@aol.com>; mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 4:20 pm Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 Hello Kathleen, There is no date visible on your Dallas Herald clipping about runaway slaves. I am sending you another clipping offlist from March 1858 about Captain John Nutman, master of RINGDOVE, which was in Calcutta ~January 1858. However it appears dubious that this is indeed *your* John Nutman as he is described as being "half an American" which doesn't fit your description of his parentage. Nutman appears in American Lloyds volumes for 1859,1861 and 1862 (always on RINGDOVE) at the Mystic Seaport site here: http://library.mysticseaport.org/initiative/MSearchIndex.cfm I believe that those merchant navy microfilms at familysearch.org are the same files that are on FindMyPast. It would seem that the head honchos at familysearch.org think that the word "navy" automatically means "military" as they are indexed under "Military Service" (smile). Regards, Adi From: mktgmaven2001 via <mariners@rootsweb.com> To: mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Saturday, October 10, 2015 3:37 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 Here is additional information, what I know so far, and some leads I could pursue if you think they would provide good additional validation/info. Can anyone tell me what kind of information is available on these types of Merchant sea records or if there is another source (online) for this material? Trying to decide if I should order these films for viewing at the local Family history center. UNITED KINGDOM, MERCHANT NAVY SEAMEN RECORDS, 1835-1941 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC39-KK3 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:KC3C-KGR I found the below on Ancestry and believe this to be John Nutman Jr. but need to verify and have seen a shipping news article where the Ringdove was in Calcutta in 1857. Could not find anything saying the Ringdove was in Calcutta in 1863. Also want to find out more about the circumstances of his death. There are records on Ancestry of a John Nutman beginning in 1851 until before his death, that was in and out of lunatic asylums in Lancashire. So I think this may be him. His wife, Anne Nutman (maiden Morgan), my 4th GR GM died in Liverpool in 1858. Their son, John Nutman, likely died in Aug 1863. Their daughter, Elizabeth Butler (Nutman) Stinson was a widow. Her husband William Frederick Stinson died at sea, a first mate on the Ship Michigan, which sunk. She had a young son and had moved to Maine in the US to marry her brother-in-law, a Sea Captain named John Huston Stinson. I have not found evidence they had additional children. So by the time he died, John Nutman Sr. may have been alone in this world, maybe with depression and/or dementia. This is the marriage record of John Nutman and Ann Cornish (Cornish was her first husband, my 4th GR GF and also a Mariner) in South Shields in 1821 https://familysearch.org/ark:/61903/1:1:NNVQ-DVW Findmypast had a free weekend a couple of weekends ago and I found the baptismal records for Elizabeth (1823) and John Jr. (1828) with parents Anne and John Nutman, Mariner in Milford Haven, Pembrokeshire, Wales. Ann Morgan was born in Wales, though I have not found her birth record and do not know her parent's names so not sure where in Wales. Records I have seen for John Nutman Sr. say he was born in England. Just trying to piece together their story and verify these are my people. You're the Mariner experts so... Thanks very much, Kathleen

You are most welcome Kathleen, but ... erm ... you have so far omitted to give us a most important piece of information - his certificate number.What is it please?  He, unfortunately, does not appear in Lloyd's Captains Registers at London Metropolitan Archives. I did look for him in the index here:http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm Regards,Adi   From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Adi, This reply was very helpful, thank you! It will save me time and money in not ordering those films, which if they are thesame as on FMP. Those I saw a couple of weeks ago and they were not super informative. Also the article you foundthat mentions the parentage of Capt John Nutman of the Ringdove, pretty much rules him out as my John Nutman Jr. as far as I can tell. Given the content of the articles I have seen about the Master of the Ringdove, can't say I am too sad about that (smile). My John Nutman Jr. born 1828 and a Mariner, could still be the John Nutman b. 1828 that died in Calcutta, so will keep trying that angle.His Masters & Mates certificate from 1851 lists him born in Liverpool, but I did find that baptismal record in Pembrokeshire, Wales,which looks like an excellent match. I know the one listed on the M&M certificate is mine. As I said, he lists my 3rd GR GF's (William Reed) ship The Volunteer and they were brothers-in-law. Here is the detail of the Dallas Herald article Dallas Herald. (Dallas, Tex.), Vol. 5, No. 14, Ed. 1 Saturday, August 23, 1856)that was not included in the link I posted about the return of the runaway slaves. Kathleen

Hi Adi, Name John Nutman Estimated Age 29 Birth Date 11 Apr 1828 Birth Place Liverpool, Lancashire Issue Date 27 Jan 1857 Issue Port London Certificate Number 64.716 -----Original Message----- From: Mme_N_Carmichael <mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca> To: mktgmaven2001 <mktgmaven2001@aol.com>; mariners <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Mon, Oct 12, 2015 7:38 pm Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove You are most welcome Kathleen, but ... erm ... you have so far omitted to give us a most important piece of information - his certificate number. What is it please? He, unfortunately, does not appear in Lloyd's Captains Registers at London Metropolitan Archives. I did look for him in the index here: http://www.history.ac.uk/gh/capintro.htm Regards, Adi From: "mktgmaven2001@aol.com" <mktgmaven2001@aol.com> To: mme_n_carmichael@yahoo.ca; mariners@rootsweb.com Sent: Monday, October 12, 2015 9:16 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] MARINERS Digest, Vol 10, Issue 170 - Nutman/Ringdove Adi, This reply was very helpful, thank you! It will save me time and money in not ordering those films, which if they are the same as on FMP. Those I saw a couple of weeks ago and they were not super informative. Also the article you found that mentions the parentage of Capt John Nutman of the Ringdove, pretty much rules him out as my John Nutman Jr. as far as I can tell. Given the content of the articles I have seen about the Master of the Ringdove, can't say I am too sad about that (smile). My John Nutman Jr. born 1828 and a Mariner, could still be the John Nutman b. 1828 that died in Calcutta, so will keep trying that angle. His Masters & Mates certificate from 1851 lists him born in Liverpool, but I did find that baptismal record in Pembrokeshire, Wales, which looks like an excellent match. I know the one listed on the M&M certificate is mine. As I said, he lists my 3rd GR GF's (William Reed) ship The Volunteer and they were brothers-in-law. Here is the detail of the Dallas Herald article Dallas Herald. (Dallas, Tex.), Vol. 5, No. 14, Ed. 1 Saturday, August 23, 1856) that was not included in the link I posted about the return of the runaway slaves. Kathleen