Hi Wendy See comments between paragraphs: On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 07:04:16 +0000, Wendy Hall-Owen <intelligentwend@hotmail.com> wrote: >Hello again everyone, I am hoping someone can help me please with some info from the following. >My neighbour's father seems to have served in the Royal Navy in WW1. His actual name is LaWrence GRACE, but it appears it has been spelt as LaUrence and LaUrAnce. He was born at Selby, North Yorkshire 1900, but he gives his DOB as 1899. This is what I have found so far. >Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972Laurence Grace Victory Medal, British War Medal1914-1920 Europe WW1 Service No K 45911 >On this image following details.... Rank - Sto 1 - does this mean a Stoker ??How Issued or Disposed of - S - most of others have a ships name, does this mean S= Same as above vessel ?? Sto 1 = Stoker First Class >and another entry.... Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972 Lawrence Grace Star, Victory Medal & British War MedalEuropeWorld War 1 >On this image it states Rank - Fmn - what does this mean please No "Victorian" - has anyone any info on this vessel please ?? I'm not too familiar with medal rolls, but this looks to me more likely to be someone who may have been serving in the Merchant Service. I would suggest that Fmn probably = Fireman, which I would guess would equate to the RN's rating of Stoker. >Question... why is there two listings for him in the Medal Rolls or are these two different men with same names??? I have also found another entry for a Lawrence Grace for Medal Rolls for the Star, why so many different entries ????> Below you suggest that he joined the RN, but since 18 was the minimum age for stokers he would have been discharged from the service and rejoined at a later date. In the interim it could be that he joined the Merchant Service ? I have heard of many accounts of boy seamen giving an incorrect date of birth so that they would appear to be older than was actually the case, but this is the first time I've heard of a case that has been discovered and something was done about it. The reason for the minimum age for Stokers was their physical condition and it could be that he had a job keeping up with the older lads and his real age came to light ? Alternatively, as you suggest it could be for 2 different people ? If you have any queries regarding his service record perhaps you can send me a copy of the records along with your questions. Paul ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> I have also found a listing for him on Register of Seamen's Services, I have downloaded them and it appears that his age was in question and he was discharged providing he went back toCivil Employment with Messrs Cochrane & Sons, Selby. But this discharge was some many months after he joined in 1917, his age was out by 1 year of 1899 instead of 1900. It then appearsthat he went back into the RN from 1918 and served until Aug 1919. There is another entry some way down stating that he then tried to re-enlist with the West Riding Yorkshire Reg and someinfo I don't understand, so will need to ask someone with Army knowledge about that. Was it normal for someone to be discharged because of his age ???? Also at the beginning of this note there is another Service No N16046 can anyone shed light on this please ??? >Will anyone help me to decipher some of the handwriting please for the ships he was on ???> ADM >> 188/958 Piece 45501-46000 Laurance Grace (another spelling) K45911 Born Selby, Yorks, 6th Aug 1899 >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >Now this man also served in WW2 in Royal Naval Patrol Service and was killed due to a mine off Falmouth, he was aboard the Rinovia Minesweeper Trawler, again as Stoker and he volunteered, a trawler taken over by the RNPS. >Built as the BLAKKUR >(GY378) for Rinovia Steam Fishing, Grimsby, by Cook, Welton & Gemmell,Beverley; Yard No 566. >Launched 27/08/1931. > In 1938 vessel renamed RINOVIA. On 10th December 1938 the trawler ran aground in the Orkneys, becoming stranded on the island of Ruskholm in the >Westray Firth. All the crew were rescued. >On 31/08/1939 the vessel was requisitioned by the Royal Navy as a mine-sweeper. >In September 1940 vessel grounded at Dartmouth and re-floated. > On 02/11/1940 the H.M.T. RINOVIA sunk by mine off Falmouth Bay, 2.9 miles off Anthony Light. Position given as 50 05 839 N 04 56 990W >ref. used: Michael Thompson, Cook, Welton & Gemmell - Shipbuilders Of Hull & Beverley > Hire rate of £240.2.5d per month and taken off hire, 2 November 1940 following her loss > 2010 It is said to be intact with the bow damaged in 55m of water. >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ >> Does anyone have any info on this ship and her fate please ??? >> Kind regards Wendy >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

Hi PaulThanks for your reply.Now it didn't occur to me that he may have tried to join the MN, apparently he was a bit of a lad, sadly he died just months before hisyoungest dau was born and she is my neighbour, so obviously she never knew him, but knows a great deal about him. Now, how do I send a copy of his Service Record to you ??? I can give you my email address in a reply on here if that is allowed. Wend > From: pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com > To: mariners@rootsweb.com > Date: Thu, 27 Oct 2011 12:06:36 +0100 > Subject: Re: [MAR] FW: WW1 Royal Navy LaWrence / LaUrence LaUrAnce Grace - Ship "Victorian" > > > Hi Wendy > > See comments between paragraphs: > > On Thu, 27 Oct 2011 07:04:16 +0000, Wendy Hall-Owen > <intelligentwend@hotmail.com> wrote: > > >Hello again everyone, I am hoping someone can help me please with some info from the following. > >My neighbour's father seems to have served in the Royal Navy in WW1. His actual name is LaWrence GRACE, but it appears it has been spelt as LaUrence and LaUrAnce. He was born at Selby, North Yorkshire 1900, but he gives his DOB as 1899. This is what I have found so far. > >Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972Laurence Grace Victory Medal, British War Medal1914-1920 Europe WW1 Service No K 45911 > >On this image following details.... Rank - Sto 1 - does this mean a Stoker ??How Issued or Disposed of - S - most of others have a ships name, does this mean S= Same as above vessel ?? > > Sto 1 = Stoker First Class > > >and another entry.... Uk, Naval Medal and Award Rolls, 1793-1972 Lawrence Grace Star, Victory Medal & British War MedalEuropeWorld War 1 > >On this image it states Rank - Fmn - what does this mean please No "Victorian" - has anyone any info on this vessel please ?? > > I'm not too familiar with medal rolls, but this looks to me more > likely to be someone who may have been serving in the Merchant > Service. I would suggest that Fmn probably = Fireman, which I would > guess would equate to the RN's rating of Stoker. > > >Question... why is there two listings for him in the Medal Rolls or are these two different men with same names??? I have also found another entry for a Lawrence Grace for Medal Rolls for the Star, why so many different entries ????> > > Below you suggest that he joined the RN, but since 18 was the minimum > age for stokers he would have been discharged from the service and > rejoined at a later date. In the interim it could be that he joined > the Merchant Service ? I have heard of many accounts of boy seamen > giving an incorrect date of birth so that they would appear to be > older than was actually the case, but this is the first time I've > heard of a case that has been discovered and something was done about > it. The reason for the minimum age for Stokers was their physical > condition and it could be that he had a job keeping up with the older > lads and his real age came to light ? > > Alternatively, as you suggest it could be for 2 different people ? > > If you have any queries regarding his service record perhaps you can > send me a copy of the records along with your questions. > > Paul > > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> I have also found a listing for him on Register of Seamen's Services, I have downloaded them and it appears that his age was in question and he was discharged providing he went back toCivil Employment with Messrs Cochrane & Sons, Selby. But this discharge was some many months after he joined in 1917, his age was out by 1 year of 1899 instead of 1900. It then appearsthat he went back into the RN from 1918 and served until Aug 1919. There is another entry some way down stating that he then tried to re-enlist with the West Riding Yorkshire Reg and someinfo I don't understand, so will need to ask someone with Army knowledge about that. Was it normal for someone to be discharged because of his age ???? Also at the beginning of this note there is another Service No N16046 can anyone shed light on this please ??? > >Will anyone help me to decipher some of the handwriting please for the ships he was on ???> ADM > >> 188/958 Piece 45501-46000 Laurance Grace (another spelling) K45911 Born Selby, Yorks, 6th Aug 1899 > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >Now this man also served in WW2 in Royal Naval Patrol Service and was killed due to a mine off Falmouth, he was aboard the Rinovia Minesweeper Trawler, again as Stoker and he volunteered, a trawler taken over by the RNPS. > >Built as the BLAKKUR > >(GY378) for Rinovia Steam Fishing, Grimsby, by Cook, Welton & Gemmell,Beverley; Yard No 566. > >Launched 27/08/1931. > > In 1938 vessel renamed RINOVIA. On 10th December 1938 the trawler ran aground in the Orkneys, becoming stranded on the island of Ruskholm in the > >Westray Firth. All the crew were rescued. > >On 31/08/1939 the vessel was requisitioned by the Royal Navy as a mine-sweeper. > >In September 1940 vessel grounded at Dartmouth and re-floated. > > On 02/11/1940 the H.M.T. RINOVIA sunk by mine off Falmouth Bay, 2.9 miles off Anthony Light. Position given as 50 05 839 N 04 56 990W > >ref. used: Michael Thompson, Cook, Welton & Gemmell - Shipbuilders Of Hull & Beverley > > Hire rate of £240.2.5d per month and taken off hire, 2 November 1940 following her loss > > 2010 It is said to be intact with the bow damaged in 55m of water. > >> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > >> Does anyone have any info on this ship and her fate please ??? > >> Kind regards Wendy > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >> ------------------------------- > >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > > > > >------------------------------- > >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W > http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message