Hello ~ I'm hoping that someone with experience interpreting Lloyd's Captains' Register can help me out here. The Register shows Captain John Kelly (cert. no 90732) on SS HECTOR in 1871, SS CUZCO in 1872 and SS GAELIC in 1873. However, references in the newspapers (for the months of interest) show W.H. Box commanding HECTOR in 1871, W.H. Thomas commanding CUZCO in 1872 and John W. Jennings commanding GAELIC in 1873. I'm not sure if Lloyd's Captains' Register lists only men who were actually ships masters, or if it might also list them if they were simply crew members (even though they had their captains cert.). John Kelly received his cert. in 1869, so he was in the early stage of his career in 1871-73. Is it safe to assume that he was on these ships but perhaps serving as a mate or in some other capacity? A related question ~ Kelly appears to have subsequently commanded sailing ships (e.g., AMYONE) in the mid-1870s, and then reverted back to steamships (e.g., BRITISH KING, KO-I-NOOR, TYRIAN) in the 1880s-90s. Were there different certificates required for sail vs. steam, and was it common for master mariners to move back and forth from one to the other? The required skill sets must have been quite different, with significant engineering knowledge required for steam? Thanks, Harold Alamo, CA

Hello Harold Lloyds tried to record the positions held by certified masters as both master and mate. In the original ledgers, certainly in the early years, an appointment as mate was indicated by the vessel's name being underlined. I think later on it was done in different ink, but I can't be certain offhand. The key to these things is usually given somewhere in the ledger - I think maybe at the top of the columns? It would be worth checking your entries to be on the safe side - assuming that all appointments were as master is an easy mistake to make and one I've come unstuck on myself. It wasn't at all unusual for certified masters to serve as mates and some went through their careers without holding command at all. You really need to check the crew agreements for the voyages in question. A master qualified in sail at this time could command a sail or a steam ship - and bear in mind that many steamers at this time had plenty of sails which they used in order to save fuel, as the engines weren't very efficient, so sailing skills would still have been required. At some point - I can't remember exactly when, but I think it was rather later - a steam only certificate came in, in which case the master could only command a steam ship. In the early 1870s a steamship master would almost certainly have needed to know how to sail. He would of course have had engineers to look after the engines. I don't know how common it was for a master to switch back and forth between sail and steam but given the similarities in the skills needed at the time, maybe it wasn't impossible. I would think it likely that a mate would switch between them more frequently. I suspect that Captain Kelly served his time in sailing ships, enabling him to qualify in sail, and then had a few years in steamers as mate before reverting to sail as master or mate and then finally moving to steam. Hope this helps Cheers Piers -----Original Message----- From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] On Behalf Of Hwabz@aol.com Sent: 28 May 2011 18:37 To: mariners@rootsweb.com Subject: [MAR] Lloyd's Captains Registers (again) Hello ~ I'm hoping that someone with experience interpreting Lloyd's Captains' Register can help me out here. The Register shows Captain John Kelly (cert. no 90732) on SS HECTOR in 1871, SS CUZCO in 1872 and SS GAELIC in 1873. However, references in the newspapers (for the months of interest) show W.H. Box commanding HECTOR in 1871, W.H. Thomas commanding CUZCO in 1872 and John W. Jennings commanding GAELIC in 1873. I'm not sure if Lloyd's Captains' Register lists only men who were actually ships masters, or if it might also list them if they were simply crew members (even though they had their captains cert.). John Kelly received his cert. in 1869, so he was in the early stage of his career in 1871-73. Is it safe to assume that he was on these ships but perhaps serving as a mate or in some other capacity? A related question ~ Kelly appears to have subsequently commanded sailing ships (e.g., AMYONE) in the mid-1870s, and then reverted back to steamships (e.g., BRITISH KING, KO-I-NOOR, TYRIAN) in the 1880s-90s. Were there different certificates required for sail vs. steam, and was it common for master mariners to move back and forth from one to the other? The required skill sets must have been quite different, with significant engineering knowledge required for steam? Thanks, Harold Alamo, CA ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message