This is probably a dumb question, but when a man joined a vessel bound for Canada or the USA did they require a passport? I am thinking about the early 1900's. What kind of paper work was needed for the man? Kathleen in toronto

Well my grandfather crossed the pond in 1901 and jumped ship in Galveston.  He had his seaman's papers but not the one for the trip he was on.  I assume the captain did not give it to the sailor until completion of the voyage.  Persons the country legally or via a passenger ship signed "An Intent to Immigrate" paper upon arrival. In New Orleans a fee was charged to leave the ship so many actually jumped in the water at the mouth of the Mississippi to avoid payment. Regards, Betty Hebert  ________________________________ From: KATHLEEN LOPEZ <kathleen.lopez@rogers.com> To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com Sent: Tue, May 3, 2011 8:38:26 PM Subject: [MAR] mariners crossing the Pond This is probably a dumb question, but when a man joined a vessel bound for  Canada or the USA did they require a passport?  I am thinking about the early 1900's. What kind of paper work was needed for the man?                     Kathleen in toronto ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

I don't know about the Merchant Service, but there was never any need for Royal Navy personnel to possess a passport, even when I served in the Navy....when arriving in a foreign country our R.N. identity papers were considered adequate, be it the old fashioned Pay Book, or the later Identity Card. The only time I needed a passport was when I went to work ashore at Mombasa in Kenya for a couple of years I suspect that a similar arrangement was sufficient for Merchant Service / Navy personnel. However, with the current problems with terrorism and the paranoia that is exhibited by some countries merchant seamen have been caught up in the security net and are often treated with little thought or consideration and have, I read, great difficulty even getting a run ashore in some parts of the World ....although ship turn around times are so quick that the time spent in port these days is very limited and I doubt that there is much time, if any, even for a visit to a pub or bar ? Passports in general were usually considered an exceptional and expensive additional requirement until the First World War, but it all changed after the War when they were required wherever one crossed a national border, although there are some exceptions these days.. Paul On Tue, 3 May 2011 21:38:26 -0400, "KATHLEEN LOPEZ" <kathleen.lopez@rogers.com> wrote: >This is probably a dumb question, but when a man joined a vessel bound for Canada or the USA did they require a passport? I am thinking about the early 1900's. What kind of paper work was needed for the man? > Kathleen in toronto > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html

The basic answer to your question regarding passports for the Merchant service in the period you are looking at is no. Crew who wanted to sign off, sick or transfer to another ship in foreign ports were put before the Consul of the nationality of the ship, who endorsed the crew agreement. When they signed on another ship in that foreign port they would be put before the Consul of the Nationality of the ship they are joining. Discharge certificates were issued to the individual to show to the next employer. But I have found many of these left archived in the crew lists, some from the previous ship and others of the same ship not collected by the crew member because he failed to turn up and sign off. Those who absconded were reported to the police and in some cases were sent to prison and in others put back on board when the ship sailed. But some of course were not found. In modern times I spent about 4 years between Jan 1958 to Nov 1962 in the Merchant Navy. I carried a Seamans Identity Card. This was sufficient. Some ports like Tel Aviv and Bona Algeria, we were advised to carry them when going ashore, for they required identity at the dock gates. But I dont remember having to show my card when going ashore at other places. This modern ID card was much more comprehensive than a passport, it had photograph with discharge book No. National Insurance No., signature, full name, date and place of birth, Colour of eyes and hair, Colour of compexion, Height , Distinguishing marks, Certificates held, Rank, National Service Registration No., fingerprints of all fingers and thumbs. Pension fund and Registered No. Name, relationship and address of next of kin or friend. Some of these have survived and are available at the national archives under BT372. Without trying to be political I complained that I was still alive and my document could be bought by anyone for £2.60. I believe they now have restrictions on proof of ownership or death of the ancestor ? I do not know what the latest version of this identity card contains. Advice on merchant seamen from one organisation offering travel to shipping company crew is Merchant Seamen are those holding a Seaman Book or Seafarer's National Identity Document adopted by the ILO member states (ILO = International Labour Organization). Seamen must travel on duty and hold a Letter of Guarantee of their shipping company. Information on those types of passengers may be found in Country Information. (Note: If no information exists on merchant seamen, the normal passport, visa and/or transit regulations apply.) One needs to read the International Labour Office Convention No.108 Regards Bryan www.swanseamariners.org.uk

Hi Bryan, With all the usual caveats about sucking eggs, and you having actually done it and got the tee-shirt.... Kathleen originally specifically mentioned entry to the good-old USofA. I remember my late brother (later a MM) complaining in what must have been the early 1960s how a seaman's identity card was good enough for anywhere else, but to get ashore in the US for 12 hours took about that long with US Immigration. So even then I think you had to fill in their usual forms about not being a member of the Communist Party; not importing guns, liquor or women for immoral purposes; and not seeking to overthrow the constitution. That said, I don't think you needed other documentation, but it certainly wasn't a case of strolling down the gangplank and waving your I.D. at the dockyard gate. Incidentally, my brother's photograph for his seaman's card, featuring a haircut from a ship's cook in the Red Sea and the number along the bottom, was such that I could wave it in school to deter bullies (think you're 'ard). Graham (husband of Irene) ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bryan Richards" <bryanrichards@btinternet.com> To: "KATHLEEN LOPEZ" <kathleen.lopez@rogers.com>; <MARINERS@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, May 04, 2011 12:41 PM Subject: Re: [MAR] mariners crossing the Pond In modern times I spent about 4 years between Jan 1958 to Nov 1962 in the Merchant Navy. I carried a Seamans Identity Card. This was sufficient. Some ports like Tel Aviv and Bona Algeria, we were advised to carry them when going ashore, for they required identity at the dock gates. But I dont remember having to show my card when going ashore at other places. Regards Bryan www.swanseamariners.org.uk ------------------------------- To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message

On 4/05/2011 9:41 PM, Bryan Richards wrote: > The basic answer to your question regarding passports for the Merchant > service in the period you are looking at is no. Crew who wanted to sign off, > sick or transfer to another ship in foreign ports were put before the Consul > of the nationality of the ship, who endorsed the crew agreement. When they > signed on another ship in that foreign port they would be put before the > Consul of the Nationality of the ship they are joining. Discharge > certificates were issued to the individual to show to the next employer. But > I have found many of these left archived in the crew lists, some from the > previous ship and others of the same ship not collected by the crew member > because he failed to turn up and sign off. Those who absconded were reported > to the police and in some cases were sent to prison and in others put back > on board when the ship sailed. But some of course were not found. > > > > Regards > Bryan > www.swanseamariners.org.uk > > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message > This is my first posting. I've read with great interest what you've said about seamen in the 1800s and their documentation . My interest is between 1840 and 1870. Our family story says that my great-grandfather, THOMAS LLOYD EVANS (born 1840) was an engineer, who went to sea to further his experience in the maritime area. I have a hospital entry form, which states he came to Australia on the SCHAVINA. I have found no ship with that name and conclude that he must have had an accent as well as the person who recorded the information. So I don't know when he arrived in Australia, or at which port. I've looked for him among deserters listed in Victoria, Australia and thought the ones I found did not match his age. I have tried to find a crew agreement for him. The one agreement I thought likely had a signature which did not match the one on Thomas' wedding certificate in 1870 in Bendigo, Victoria, Australia. I have found a Thomas Evans, son of William Evans and Margaret Owen, born in Anglesey 1840, who was married to Catherine Jones and had three children with her by 1864. On the 1871 Census she and the children are living on her father's farm with no mention of her husband. By 1881 she and the children are still there and she is listed as a widow. If my Thomas is the same man who left a family in Wales, he may have been less than truthful about his coming to Australia. I have his signatures on his marriage in 1870 and the burial plot for a daughter in 1872. I'll be grateful for your ideas. Can you suggest anything? Miriam O'D