No Edie, my point is that BUDGET *WASN'T* still around in 1869. The name still appeared in American Lloyds up to 1869, sure, but American Lloyds wasn't an official register. The last they heard of BUDGET was in 1863 in New York (see the last column). As a reactive record they just kept reprinting the 1863 details until either someone got round to telling them to take them out, or they weeded it out themselves on the grounds that the info was now so old as to be unreliable. There was no obligation on anyone to tell them of the change. So since their last information was that BUDGET was seen in NY in 1863, it is entirely consistent with her being sold in December 1863 and thus the name disappearing from reports. After that she changed her name and there was nothing to connect COLOMBO with the former BUDGET, and she was wrecked not so long after that. No reports meant no updating, so American Lloyds just kept her in because for all they know she was laid up somewhere. The American Civil War being on at the time would probably not have made it easy to keep updated. What it does confirm, though, is that American Lloyds, at least, also read the Quebec-built 933-ton ship's name as BUDGET rather than BRIDGET. As did the Mercantile Navy List in 1864 (p650 on the link sent by Peter Klein). Note that this too was out of date, as the vessel's name seems to have changed in 1863. But you *DO* have an official proof that vessel ON 37096, named BUDGET (ok, or possibly BRIDGET), built in 1861 became COLOMBO of Liverpool in 1863 because you have a copy of the appropriation book (courtesy of Mick and Peter Owens). Personally I also read the entry as "Budget". It is a tricky one, but the "R" isn't formed in the same way as it was for CHERUB above, or MAGGIE LANDER below, and there is no dot above the "I", and I can't really see how else one would write "Budget" in joined-up script. Of course for all we know that could itself be a misreading of someone else's handwriting! The Canadian Public Archives (the other link provided by Mick) also read the vessel's name as BUDGET. This doesn't explain the references to BRIDGET except as errors in transcription somewhere along the line, but such things happened. I have researched an American vessel of the same period whose name was ALICE VENNARD but I have come across references to her in various sources as ALICE VENARD, KENNARD, VONNARD etc. Other evidence made it clear that it was the same vessel in each case, but the name just got constantly garbled. The link to the COLOMBO lost in the Calcutta Cyclone is on page 144 of the Government of Bengal's Report (on Google Books http://tinyurl.com/44a66w7 ). That vessel was recorded at 932 tons which is close enough, given the comparative rarity of the name, to suggest that it is the same vessel as the ex-BUDGET. You really want to tie her in more closely than that of course; Merseyside Maritime Museum might be a good place to start, as they have a blog post specifically about the 1864 Calcutta Cyclone which apparently bankrupted many Liverpool insurance companies. As BUDGET was re-registered at Liverpool COLOMBO might well appear somewhere in their records: see http://tinyurl.com/3vvt9ux Have a look at the Southampton website too: http://www.plimsoll.org/RegistersAndRecords/ Cheers Piers -----Original Message----- From: Edie McArthur [mailto:ediemc@bigpond.com] Sent: 27 July 2011 07:12 To: Piers Smith-Cresswell; 'Mariners List' Subject: Re: [MAR] Bridget/Colombo Thanks for that Piers. Actually the Broomielawwas of interest as that is the ship on her miaden voyage that brough our McArthur family to Australia. We actually went to Quebec port to see about a photo for her but there has never been a photo anywhere. Still nothing official to prove the Budget Bridget or any other ship became the Colombo who sunk in the Cyclones off Calcutta in 1864. Thankyou to everyon who have tried to help. We really need the right Colombo to get the O/N If the Budget is the one mentioned earlier that was stillabout in 1869 it cannot be our Colombo as she was sunk in 1864 Edie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Piers Smith-Cresswell" <piers@ps-c.demon.co.uk> To: "'Mariners List'" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 7:04 AM Subject: Re: [MAR] Bridget/Colombo > Looks like she was BUDGET: the 1862 American Lloyds Register of American > and > Foreign Shipping has a 933 ton Quebec ship of that name in 1862 edition, > other details tally: http://tinyurl.com/3z4p63a . If there was a > transcription error then it evidently made it onto that as well. > > BUDGET continues to appear in editions up to 1869, but it should be noted > that in 1869 she was recorded as last "seen" in NY in 1863, so it goes to > show that such things aren't necessarily all that accurate and shouldn't > be > absolutely relied upon! > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] > On Behalf Of Mick > Sent: 26 July 2011 18:31 > To: Mariners List > Subject: Re: [MAR] Bridget/Colombo > > > Pete owns from the Clip Website has sent me a cutting from the > Appropriation > > books this shows her entry in the Book as Budget and subsequently sold to > Liverpool under a new name, what you don't see in the clip is that she was > first reg,d in Quebec in 1861 but take it from me its there. > > I have posted it here and sent a copy to Edie > > http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=6&pid=47#top_dis > play_media > > > My link in the last post seems to have an error so try this one. and > search > by number. > > http://www.pro.rcip-chin.gc.ca/bd-dl/nav-ship-eng.jsp?emu=en.vessel:/Proxapp > /ws/vessel/public/vessel/SearchForm > > > > Mick O Rourke > > Mariners List > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes > in the subject and the body of the message > > > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message >

Thankyou Piers and Mick, Peter and Alex, John and several others who have helped in any way.We do appreciate it. thankyou Edie ----- Original Message ----- From: "Piers Smith-Cresswell" <piers@ps-c.demon.co.uk> To: "'Edie McArthur'" <ediemc@bigpond.com>; "'Mariners List'" <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 8:39 PM Subject: RE: [MAR] Bridget/Budget/Colombo > No Edie, my point is that BUDGET *WASN'T* still around in 1869. > > The name still appeared in American Lloyds up to 1869, sure, but American > Lloyds wasn't an official register. The last they heard of BUDGET was in > 1863 in New York (see the last column). As a reactive record they just > kept > reprinting the 1863 details until either someone got round to telling them > to take them out, or they weeded it out themselves on the grounds that the > info was now so old as to be unreliable. There was no obligation on > anyone > to tell them of the change. > > So since their last information was that BUDGET was seen in NY in 1863, it > is entirely consistent with her being sold in December 1863 and thus the > name disappearing from reports. After that she changed her name and there > was nothing to connect COLOMBO with the former BUDGET, and she was wrecked > not so long after that. No reports meant no updating, so American Lloyds > just kept her in because for all they know she was laid up somewhere. The > American Civil War being on at the time would probably not have made it > easy > to keep updated. > > What it does confirm, though, is that American Lloyds, at least, also read > the Quebec-built 933-ton ship's name as BUDGET rather than BRIDGET. As > did > the Mercantile Navy List in 1864 (p650 on the link sent by Peter Klein). > Note that this too was out of date, as the vessel's name seems to have > changed in 1863. > > But you *DO* have an official proof that vessel ON 37096, named BUDGET > (ok, > or possibly BRIDGET), built in 1861 became COLOMBO of Liverpool in 1863 > because you have a copy of the appropriation book (courtesy of Mick and > Peter Owens). Personally I also read the entry as "Budget". It is a > tricky > one, but the "R" isn't formed in the same way as it was for CHERUB above, > or > MAGGIE LANDER below, and there is no dot above the "I", and I can't really > see how else one would write "Budget" in joined-up script. Of course for > all we know that could itself be a misreading of someone else's > handwriting! > > > The Canadian Public Archives (the other link provided by Mick) also read > the > vessel's name as BUDGET. This doesn't explain the references to BRIDGET > except as errors in transcription somewhere along the line, but such > things > happened. I have researched an American vessel of the same period whose > name was ALICE VENNARD but I have come across references to her in various > sources as ALICE VENARD, KENNARD, VONNARD etc. Other evidence made it > clear > that it was the same vessel in each case, but the name just got constantly > garbled. > > The link to the COLOMBO lost in the Calcutta Cyclone is on page 144 of the > Government of Bengal's Report (on Google Books > http://tinyurl.com/44a66w7 ). > That vessel was recorded at 932 tons which is close enough, given the > comparative rarity of the name, to suggest that it is the same vessel as > the > ex-BUDGET. You really want to tie her in more closely than that of course; > Merseyside Maritime Museum might be a good place to start, as they have a > blog post specifically about the 1864 Calcutta Cyclone which apparently > bankrupted many Liverpool insurance companies. As BUDGET was > re-registered > at Liverpool COLOMBO might well appear somewhere in their records: see > http://tinyurl.com/3vvt9ux > > Have a look at the Southampton website too: > > http://www.plimsoll.org/RegistersAndRecords/ > > > Cheers > Piers > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Edie McArthur [mailto:ediemc@bigpond.com] > Sent: 27 July 2011 07:12 > To: Piers Smith-Cresswell; 'Mariners List' > Subject: Re: [MAR] Bridget/Colombo > > Thanks for that Piers. Actually the Broomielawwas of interest as that is > the ship on her miaden voyage that brough our McArthur family to > Australia. > We actually went to Quebec port to see about a photo for her but there has > never been a photo anywhere. > > Still nothing official to prove the Budget Bridget or any other ship > became > the Colombo who sunk in the Cyclones off Calcutta in 1864. > > Thankyou to everyon who have tried to help. We really need the right > Colombo to get the O/N If the Budget is the one mentioned earlier that was > stillabout in 1869 it cannot be our Colombo as she was sunk in 1864 > Edie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Piers Smith-Cresswell" <piers@ps-c.demon.co.uk> > To: "'Mariners List'" <mariners@rootsweb.com> > Sent: Wednesday, July 27, 2011 7:04 AM > Subject: Re: [MAR] Bridget/Colombo > > >> Looks like she was BUDGET: the 1862 American Lloyds Register of American >> and >> Foreign Shipping has a 933 ton Quebec ship of that name in 1862 edition, >> other details tally: http://tinyurl.com/3z4p63a . If there was a >> transcription error then it evidently made it onto that as well. >> >> BUDGET continues to appear in editions up to 1869, but it should be noted >> that in 1869 she was recorded as last "seen" in NY in 1863, so it goes to >> show that such things aren't necessarily all that accurate and shouldn't >> be >> absolutely relied upon! >> >> >> >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com >> [mailto:mariners-bounces@rootsweb.com] >> On Behalf Of Mick >> Sent: 26 July 2011 18:31 >> To: Mariners List >> Subject: Re: [MAR] Bridget/Colombo >> >> >> Pete owns from the Clip Website has sent me a cutting from the >> Appropriation >> >> books this shows her entry in the Book as Budget and subsequently sold to >> Liverpool under a new name, what you don't see in the clip is that she >> was >> first reg,d in Quebec in 1861 but take it from me its there. >> >> I have posted it here and sent a copy to Edie >> >> > http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/displayimage.php?album=6&pid=47#top_dis >> play_media >> >> >> My link in the last post seems to have an error so try this one. and >> search >> by number. >> >> > http://www.pro.rcip-chin.gc.ca/bd-dl/nav-ship-eng.jsp?emu=en.vessel:/Proxapp >> /ws/vessel/public/vessel/SearchForm >> >> >> >> Mick O Rourke >> >> Mariners List >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes >> in the subject and the body of the message >> >> >> >> ------------------------------- >> To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >> MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >> quotes in the subject and the body of the message >> > > >