Don't know if this has been posted before, but just in case. http://pilot.familysearch.org/recordsearch/start.html#c=fs%3A1770890&p=collectionDetails Great Britain, Deaths and Burials, 1778- 1988 There seem to be a Maritime deaths in this record collection, as distinct from the normal BMD registers. ----- Original Message ----- From: <mariners-request@rootsweb.com> To: <mariners@rootsweb.com> Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 4:59 PM Subject: MARINERS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 166 > > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London (D KLEIN) > 2. Re: Captain George HEPBURN (Paul Benyon) > 3. Re: "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around 26th > March 1905. (thesnows) > 4. THANKS FROM ADMIN (Ron Mapplebeck) > 5. Re: "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around 26th > March 1905. (Mick) > 6. Re: "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around 26th > March 1905. (Mick) > 7. Re: "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around 26th > March 1905. (thesnows) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 08:53:41 +0100 (BST) > From: D KLEIN <klein84@btinternet.com> > Subject: Re: [MAR] George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London > To: Shirlee Cantwell <tcantwell@xtra.co.nz> > Cc: Mariners-L@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <982162.32801.qm@web86007.mail.ird.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Shirlee, > > Sadly, the words "needle" and "haystack" spring to mind. I think that all > the > references to George Bradshaw, certainly between 1855 and 1861, are going > to be > found in Public Record Office in Victoria, see: > http://www.access.prov.vic.gov.au/public/PROVguides/PROVguide051/PROVguide051.jsp > , if you have not already enquired there. At least they may be able to > suggest further lines of research, and the sort of documents that you need > to be > looking at. From 1861 onwards the world would seem to be your oyster - > like > many mariners, he evidently got restless. You need to establish where his > roots > might have been, so perhaps a Census, if he appeared in one, might tell > you > about his origins. I have not managed to find any mention of one online, > but > perhaps you've already been down that route? Unless George Bradshaw came > back > to the UK, it's rather difficult to suggest what to do at this remove. > You need > his date and place of birth to identify him, and link him to an individual > back > in the UK, if indeed that is where he ended up, but he may well have done > his > best to cover his tracks! > > Sorry not to have more helpful suggestions. > > Kind regards, > > PK > > > > ________________________________ > From: Shirlee Cantwell <tcantwell@xtra.co.nz> > To: D KLEIN <klein84@btinternet.com> > Cc: MARINERS@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, 7 June, 2011 6:07:27 > Subject: Re: [MAR] George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London > > ? > Hi Peter > > I am afraid nothing much is known about George Bradshaw seagoing > adventures. He > married Agnes Russell in Sydney on 9 May 1853. The very early NSW Marr > Certs did > not allow for parents names. The witnesses were a James Cavanagh and > George > Paterson - perhaps they were shipmates of George's. His last daughter was > born > on 23 August 1861 so you could he say he stayed around from 1853 to early > 1861 > then he took off. > > George and Agnes moved to Victoria after their only son George was born > in > 1855. Three daughters were born in Emerald Hill, Victoria, and the last > one in > Sandys Creek, Victoria. > > > I went through the Mariners and Ship in Australian Waters Index and there > seemed to be many George Bradshaw's with ages ranging from 17 to 48 yrs > old from 1856 to 1882 and none of them were Masters. Perhaps he took for > Gt > Britain and made sure never sail to back to Australia waters again. > > Shirlee > Wellington, NZ > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- >>From: D KLEIN >>To: Shirlee Cantwell >>Cc: Mariners-L@rootsweb.com >>Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 10:43 AM >>Subject: Re: [MAR] George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London >> >> >>Hello Shirlee, >> >> >>You don't tell us much about George Bradshaw - such as when was he born, >>where he lived, or where he sailed from? Having said this, checking >>the >>Mercantile Navy Lists, starting in 1849, there was one certificated >>master >>mariner during the 1850s/60s, a George Jones Bradshaw, who was >>certificated No. >>2612 at London as a Master 2nd Class in 1850. Some of his early ships >>are >>named: in 1851 he was listed 1st Mate on board the Indus of London, >>sailing >>from Southampton to the Med. In 1852 he was master of the Haddington, >>sailing from London to Southampton; and in 1853 master of the Norna of >>London, sailing from Southampton to Constantinople. He was still >>listed in >>1864. Could this be your man? >> >> >>The only other George Bradshaw I can find listed at this time is a George >>William Bradshaw, certificated 22627 as 2nd Mate at London in 1860. >> >> >>I hope there might be something useful here, although these may well be >>the >>wrong men altogether. >> >> >>Regards, >> >> >>Peter Klein >> >> >> > ________________________________ > From: Shirlee Cantwell <tcantwell@xtra.co.nz> >>To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com >>Sent: Monday, 6 June, 2011 21:04:37 >>Subject: [MAR] George BRADSHAW Seaman b 1825 London >> >>I am new to this list. George BRADSHAW is my Great Great Grandfather >>and on >>the Victorian birth certiciate for the eldest two children he was >>stated he >>was a Master Mariner and Mariner. He deserted the family early in 1861 >>before my great grandmother was born. >> >>Have searched Ancestry and have found a seaman by the name of George >>Bradshaw >>who it could be. >> >>I thought I could trace him using the Family Search microfilm starting >>with >>the Alphabetical register of Seaman, 1835-1844--class BT119--index to >>Bt >>112. Is this a good one to start with and what other microfilm could I >>search? >> >>Shirlee >>Wellington, NZ >> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in >>the subject and the body of the message >> > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 10:16:13 +0100 > From: Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com> > Subject: Re: [MAR] Captain George HEPBURN > To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <ghmru69ibbhlssp56qi9o42uft88933il0@4ax.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > Pam > >>Would I be right in assuming that my George HEPBURN would have been of a >>certain social class > > Yes, I would think so. Whilst perhaps not quite of the upper class, I > would have thought that, like prospective executive officers, he would > have needed a good education, and that if he was to succeed in the > service would have needed a patron, and thus I would have thought that > his family might have had good connections some where along the line, > but whether these would have been English or Scots connections I'm > unable to say. Most certainly the Scottish education system seems to > have been superior to the English, and some might say that things > haven't changed a lot on that score ;-) > > I bang on a bit about education, but so much of the naval Master's job > involved a good knowledge of maths, including geometry and trig., and > he would also need to be able to write up good reports regarding new > coastlines and / or harbours visited with accompanying maps and > drawings to aid navigation etc., and to further the collective > knowledge of the service. The following URL will give you a good idea > regarding his responsibilities some of the other things that a naval > Master would need to know : > > http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI_1808/S06_C2_Master.html > > http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI_1808/Masters.html > >>How usual would it have been for someone of his position to leave the Navy >>and >>ply the Demerara (and possibly other) trade/routes? > > Not at all usual, but these weren't ordinary times. Following the end > of the Wars the strength of the RN was reduced from about 120,000 men > circa 1814 to about 17,000 in 1817, so a lot of men had to find work > elsewhere, and were having to compete with the Army and civilians, so > things were quite difficult for former servicemen around this period, > particularly when one takes into account that following the end of the > war the demand for armaments, ships, guns food and stores etc., all > but ceased. So, no doubt many others were in the same position as > George, but at least his service in the R.N. gave him a trade to fall > back on. > > Hopefully someone can advise you regarding a shipmaster or whether it > is the same a master, but with a bit of 19th Century embroidery ;-) > > Paul > > On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:58:54 +1200 (NZST), p.hislop@paradise.net.nz > wrote: > >>Thank you so very, very much Paul. This is great information. >> >>No matter how many answers you find you always have more questions. >> >>Would I be right in assuming that my George HEPBURN would have been of a >>certain >>social class to have obtained these positions in the Royal Navy? >>The reason I ask is that I know nothing of him before his marriage. >> >>By 1815, with the baptism of his first child in Greenock, Renfrewshire (as >>with >>his other children) he was described as a Shipmaster. >>How usual would it have been for someone of his position to leave the Navy >>and >>ply the Demerara (and possibly other) trade/routes? >> >>Pam >> >> >>Quoting Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com>: >> >>> >>> >survived, and may be able to comment on whether an "acting master" >>> might >>> >have been promoted from within the ship's company? >>> >>> Prof. N.A.M. Rodger wrote in his book Naval Records for Genealogists >>> that Masters were the earliest warrant officers to rise in social and >>> professional standing and by 1808, were officially recognised as >>> Warrant Officers. >>> >>> I have noticed during later years in the 19th Century that Acting >>> Masters appear to have been appointed as such by the Admiralty, >>> usually from the rank of Second Master , and whilst some were then >>> promoted to Master others reverted back to Second Master at the end of >>> their appointment and may well have been promoted to Master at a later >>> date. I would also suspect that Flag Officers on foreign stations may >>> well have been able to promote Second Masters, but that confirmation >>> would be subject to other factors on the officer's return to England, >>> much as for Midshipmen promoted to Acting Lieutenants on foreign >>> stations. >>> >>> Regarding the documents for the FORWARD that have survived and are >>> held by the National Archives have written to Pam off-list. >>> >>> Paul >>> >>> On Mon, 6 Jun 2011 12:32:22 +0100, "Piers Smith-Cresswell" >>> <piers@ps-c.demon.co.uk> wrote: >>> >>> >There's some good stuff about HMS FORWARD (built 1805) at >>> >http://www.berwickshipyard.com/RoverForward.html . The Lt Banks >>> referred to >>> >was Hepburn's captain as per the 1814 Navy List. It would be >>> interesting to >>> >know when Hepburn joined the vessel and whether he was present for any >>> of >>> >the actions mentioned. The Navy not being my thing, others on the list >>> will >>> >know better where to look to see if any of the vessel's records have >>> >survived, and may be able to comment on whether an "acting master" >>> might >>> >have been promoted from within the ship's company? >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> > >>> >> >>------------------------------- >>To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to >>MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the >>quotes in the subject and the body of the message > 50? 33' N, 2? 26' W > http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 11:01:08 +0100 > From: "thesnows" <thesnows@eircom.net> > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > To: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com>, "Mariners" > <mariners@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <FD1899A659C24CF591C23920BFDBA8DA@thesnowsPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello Mick, > > Robert enlisted in the Royal Naval reserve in 1885. I have sent you a copy > of his service record > > He would have had experience of Sailing from work with his Father, Master > Robert Wilkinson on Colliers up and down the east coast of England. > > Robert Henry Wilkinson appears to have taken part in the America's Cup on > 1903, sailing on the Shamrock I, leaving from Greenock, Scotland in March > 1903, and I belive the yacht is private one, and Robert H was just doing > his day job as crew, as no mention of RNR ownership on record. > > I am waiting on a reply from Portsmouth archives for a newspaper look up, > and possibly need to visit West Sussex Archives, to see if there is > anything in newspapers there. > >>From the use of words "Supposed" and "On or About" it would suggest that >>the whole crew plus yacht may have been lost. > > Regards > > Klifton Snow > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mick > To: Mariners ; thesnows > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 12:21 AM > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > > > Hi Kliften > > I have checked the Board of trade wreck reports for 1905 and no vessel > with this name or description is reported in this area or any where around > the coast for this year ? . I also had a look at the Times Digital Archive > between 1900 to 1910 : nothing ? . > > A few questions, was this vessel a private yacht or did it belong to the > Naval Reserve ?. > If private she should appear in the Board of trade wreck reports and if > she was a Naval Vessel lost with loss of life you would think it would > make the papers. > > Can you add any other information which might aid a new search. > > Mick > > Mariners List > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thesnows > To: MARINERS@rootsweb.com > Sent: Tuesday, May 31, 2011 2:31 PM > Subject: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around 26th > March 1905. > > > Hello, > > I am trying to find out any information that anyone may have came > across regarding the sinking of the yacht "Nymph" on or around 26th March > 1905, of Selsey. > > My Great Great Uncle was called Robert Wilkinson, and his Royal Naval > Reserve record, states he " Drowned while serving on yacht "Nymph" which > is supposed to have been lost off Selsey on or about 26th March 1905" > > Regards > > Klifton Snow > > ------------------------------- > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the > quotes in the subject and the body of the message > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 07 Jun 2011 12:56:57 +0100 > From: Ron Mapplebeck <ron.mapplebeck1@virgin.net> > Subject: [MAR] THANKS FROM ADMIN > To: mariners@rootsweb.com > Message-ID: <4DEE1209.9000605@virgin.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Wow! After a couple of weeks in the doldrums, during which Mick and I > were rather concerned that things had gone very quiet, the List appears > to have awoken with a vengeance. That is good on all concerned, so our > thanks for this. > > It is also heartening that most recent postings have been about the > genealogy of mariners which, after all, is what the List was primarily > set up by Debbie and Ted to deal with. Even more so that these recent > enquiries have generated detailed and helpful replies from our various > "experts" on several different aspects of mariners and shipping. > > Congratulations and please keep up the good work. > > Ron Mapplebeck > Joint Administrator > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 14:43:24 +0100 > From: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > To: "Mariners" <mariners@rootsweb.com>, "thesnows" > <thesnows@eircom.net> > Message-ID: <AA7C8A5EAD83419C9F39B11DCE2C70DD@westeire> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hi Klifton > > I have had another look at the Wreck Reports this time with my glasses on, > I found the " Nymph " Cutter / Yacht, Master "R. H . Williamson" . > The Info > > Nymph > Age about 10 years old > Not registered > Cutter / Yacht, Wooden > Crew : 3 > Tons : about 10 > Master : R.H.Williamson > Owner : W.H.P Ward, Southsea > Voyage : Newhaven - Portsmouth in ballast > Comment: Not Heard of since sailing on 25th march 1905. > > With a crew of three how likely is it to have R.H.Williamson and > R.H.Wilkinson ?. > > I will post the page from the Wreck Report to our Photo Gallery later , > may be now we can turn up something from a News Paper . > > > Mick > > Mariners List > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thesnows > To: Mick ; Mariners > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 15:52:22 +0100 > From: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com> > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > To: "Mariners" <mariners@rootsweb.com>, "thesnows" > <thesnows@eircom.net> > Message-ID: <6D6CBBEF9E7549D69E914EB8C70B42A1@westeire> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Extract of Board Of Trade Wreck Reports with details of the Yacht Nymph. > Uploaded to the Gallery > http://www.mariners-list.com/gallery/thumbnails.php?album=6 > > Someone else on the List may have access to News Papers other then those I > have mentioned in previous posts. > > Mick > > Mariners List > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thesnows > To: Mick ; Mariners > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 7 Jun 2011 16:57:54 +0100 > From: "thesnows" <thesnows@eircom.net> > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey, Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > To: "Mick" <mick@irishshipwrecks.com>, "Mariners" > <mariners@rootsweb.com> > Message-ID: <EE08AA571BA9454485352ACCA4E1D186@thesnowsPC> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Hello Mick, > > Thank you very much for checking again. > > So the tone of the writing was right. I didn't realise so many ships where > "lost" at sea. > > I have emailed Portsmouth Archives, and had already placed a request on > the West Sussex rootsweb site, but it will probably have to be a visit in > person though to Chichester local studies. > > I assume a newspaper article will be the only way to find who else was on > board? also if the Yacht was not registered then is it harder to trace it, > would you know. > > Would it also mean that it is likely there was no trace of the Yacht at > all, and this would mean not even on an admiralty chart as a wreck if the > place it sank was quite deep. > > Thanks again, > > Klifton > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Mick > To: Mariners ; thesnows > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 2:43 PM > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > > > Hi Klifton > > I have had another look at the Wreck Reports this time with my glasses > on, I found the " Nymph " Cutter / Yacht, Master "R. H . Williamson" . > The Info > > Nymph > Age about 10 years old > Not registered > Cutter / Yacht, Wooden > Crew : 3 > Tons : about 10 > Master : R.H.Williamson > Owner : W.H.P Ward, Southsea > Voyage : Newhaven - Portsmouth in ballast > Comment: Not Heard of since sailing on 25th march 1905. > > With a crew of three how likely is it to have R.H.Williamson and > R.H.Wilkinson ?. > > I will post the page from the Wreck Report to our Photo Gallery later , > may be now we can turn up something from a News Paper . > > > Mick > > Mariners List > ----- Original Message ----- > From: thesnows > To: Mick ; Mariners > Sent: Tuesday, June 07, 2011 11:01 AM > Subject: Re: [MAR] "Nymph" Yacht, lost off Selsey,Sussex on or around > 26th March 1905. > > ------------------------------ > > To contact the MARINERS list administrator, send an email to > MARINERS-admin@rootsweb.com. > > To post a message to the MARINERS mailing list, send an email to > MARINERS@rootsweb.com. > > __________________________________________________________ > To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to > MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com > with the word "unsubscribe" without the quotes in the subject and the body > of the > email with no additional text. > > > End of MARINERS Digest, Vol 6, Issue 166 > **************************************** >