Thank you so very, very much Paul. This is great information. No matter how many answers you find you always have more questions. Would I be right in assuming that my George HEPBURN would have been of a certain social class to have obtained these positions in the Royal Navy? The reason I ask is that I know nothing of him before his marriage. By 1815, with the baptism of his first child in Greenock, Renfrewshire (as with his other children) he was described as a Shipmaster. How usual would it have been for someone of his position to leave the Navy and ply the Demerara (and possibly other) trade/routes? Pam Quoting Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com>: > > >survived, and may be able to comment on whether an "acting master" > might > >have been promoted from within the ship's company? > > Prof. N.A.M. Rodger wrote in his book Naval Records for Genealogists > that Masters were the earliest warrant officers to rise in social and > professional standing and by 1808, were officially recognised as > Warrant Officers. > > I have noticed during later years in the 19th Century that Acting > Masters appear to have been appointed as such by the Admiralty, > usually from the rank of Second Master , and whilst some were then > promoted to Master others reverted back to Second Master at the end of > their appointment and may well have been promoted to Master at a later > date. I would also suspect that Flag Officers on foreign stations may > well have been able to promote Second Masters, but that confirmation > would be subject to other factors on the officer's return to England, > much as for Midshipmen promoted to Acting Lieutenants on foreign > stations. > > Regarding the documents for the FORWARD that have survived and are > held by the National Archives have written to Pam off-list. > > Paul > > On Mon, 6 Jun 2011 12:32:22 +0100, "Piers Smith-Cresswell" > <piers@ps-c.demon.co.uk> wrote: > > >There's some good stuff about HMS FORWARD (built 1805) at > >http://www.berwickshipyard.com/RoverForward.html . The Lt Banks > referred to > >was Hepburn's captain as per the 1814 Navy List. It would be > interesting to > >know when Hepburn joined the vessel and whether he was present for any > of > >the actions mentioned. The Navy not being my thing, others on the list > will > >know better where to look to see if any of the vessel's records have > >survived, and may be able to comment on whether an "acting master" > might > >have been promoted from within the ship's company? > > > > > > > > >

Pam >Would I be right in assuming that my George HEPBURN would have been of a >certain social class Yes, I would think so. Whilst perhaps not quite of the upper class, I would have thought that, like prospective executive officers, he would have needed a good education, and that if he was to succeed in the service would have needed a patron, and thus I would have thought that his family might have had good connections some where along the line, but whether these would have been English or Scots connections I'm unable to say. Most certainly the Scottish education system seems to have been superior to the English, and some might say that things haven't changed a lot on that score ;-) I bang on a bit about education, but so much of the naval Master's job involved a good knowledge of maths, including geometry and trig., and he would also need to be able to write up good reports regarding new coastlines and / or harbours visited with accompanying maps and drawings to aid navigation etc., and to further the collective knowledge of the service. The following URL will give you a good idea regarding his responsibilities some of the other things that a naval Master would need to know : http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI_1808/S06_C2_Master.html http://www.pbenyon1.plus.com/KR&AI_1808/Masters.html >How usual would it have been for someone of his position to leave the Navy and >ply the Demerara (and possibly other) trade/routes? Not at all usual, but these weren't ordinary times. Following the end of the Wars the strength of the RN was reduced from about 120,000 men circa 1814 to about 17,000 in 1817, so a lot of men had to find work elsewhere, and were having to compete with the Army and civilians, so things were quite difficult for former servicemen around this period, particularly when one takes into account that following the end of the war the demand for armaments, ships, guns food and stores etc., all but ceased. So, no doubt many others were in the same position as George, but at least his service in the R.N. gave him a trade to fall back on. Hopefully someone can advise you regarding a shipmaster or whether it is the same a master, but with a bit of 19th Century embroidery ;-) Paul On Tue, 07 Jun 2011 14:58:54 +1200 (NZST), p.hislop@paradise.net.nz wrote: >Thank you so very, very much Paul. This is great information. > >No matter how many answers you find you always have more questions. > >Would I be right in assuming that my George HEPBURN would have been of a >certain >social class to have obtained these positions in the Royal Navy? >The reason I ask is that I know nothing of him before his marriage. > >By 1815, with the baptism of his first child in Greenock, Renfrewshire (as with >his other children) he was described as a Shipmaster. >How usual would it have been for someone of his position to leave the Navy and >ply the Demerara (and possibly other) trade/routes? > >Pam > > >Quoting Paul Benyon <pbenyon@pbenyon.plus.com>: > >> >> >survived, and may be able to comment on whether an "acting master" >> might >> >have been promoted from within the ship's company? >> >> Prof. N.A.M. Rodger wrote in his book Naval Records for Genealogists >> that Masters were the earliest warrant officers to rise in social and >> professional standing and by 1808, were officially recognised as >> Warrant Officers. >> >> I have noticed during later years in the 19th Century that Acting >> Masters appear to have been appointed as such by the Admiralty, >> usually from the rank of Second Master , and whilst some were then >> promoted to Master others reverted back to Second Master at the end of >> their appointment and may well have been promoted to Master at a later >> date. I would also suspect that Flag Officers on foreign stations may >> well have been able to promote Second Masters, but that confirmation >> would be subject to other factors on the officer's return to England, >> much as for Midshipmen promoted to Acting Lieutenants on foreign >> stations. >> >> Regarding the documents for the FORWARD that have survived and are >> held by the National Archives have written to Pam off-list. >> >> Paul >> >> On Mon, 6 Jun 2011 12:32:22 +0100, "Piers Smith-Cresswell" >> <piers@ps-c.demon.co.uk> wrote: >> >> >There's some good stuff about HMS FORWARD (built 1805) at >> >http://www.berwickshipyard.com/RoverForward.html . The Lt Banks >> referred to >> >was Hepburn's captain as per the 1814 Navy List. It would be >> interesting to >> >know when Hepburn joined the vessel and whether he was present for any >> of >> >the actions mentioned. The Navy not being my thing, others on the list >> will >> >know better where to look to see if any of the vessel's records have >> >survived, and may be able to comment on whether an "acting master" >> might >> >have been promoted from within the ship's company? >> > >> > >> > >> > >> > >------------------------------- >To unsubscribe from the list, please send an email to MARINERS-request@rootsweb.com with the word 'unsubscribe' without the quotes in the subject and the body of the message 50° 33' N, 2° 26' W http://www.pbenyon.plus.com/Naval.html